Was just reading the thread about Scott Machado and how some feel he is better than Kendall Marshall. While I wont argue this because at this stage, Machado could be better.....Marshall has better pro upside than people think.
When I say that, I know that this board and others rank Marshall high, but still among a large contingent....many view him has either overated or a college talent that wont translate to the next level.
We know he is an exceptional passer. Coming into college many believed that he would not only be the best passer in the ACC but in the nation. So I wont discuss his passing, he gets an A+ for that.
What I want to discuss is, his upside. IMO there is only one thing that is truly frightening about his limitations...and that is his defensive/lateral footspeed. This is what really will hold him back if anything. The other aspects of his game are sorely underated as far as potential.
The 1st being his shooting.
I like the Jason Kidd comparison, so lets look at their shooting in 2 seasons of college ball.
As a freshman, Kidd was 28% from 3pt range hitting 24 out of 84 from deep. Marshall in his first year shot 38% on 20 for 52 from deep. It should be noted that Kidd was a starter and avg 31mpg while Marshall started towards the end of the season and avg 24mpg. Personally, I remember Kidd at Cal and saw some of his HS games and he was not a good shooter at all....but I am not talking about percentages...because I know the first thing someone is gonna say is percentage can be misleading. Kidd had a very flat shot with no arc and while Marshall's shot is sometimes flat, he still has better form than Kidd at the same stage.
As a soph, Kidd went for 36% hitting 51 out of 141. Not bad for a guy who still had a mechanically flat shot. Kidd played a total of 30 games that year, so far this year Marshall has played 23, so I think its fine to compare. Marshall is shooting 31% currently hitting 14 out of 45 from deep.
People should pay close attention to the fact that Marshall just doesnt make many attempts. Kidd as a frosh...2.9, and as a soph...4.7 attempts per game. Marshall as a frosh, 1.4 attempts....and this year....an even 2 attempts.
Up until the FSU game, he was shooting 26% on 9-34. Marshall truly only looks for his shot when it is absolutely required to keep them in the game or forced when they are behind. This is evidenced by him forcing 5 3pt shots up against FSU, a career high in attempts....and 4 against UK, which tied career highs in attempts. Since the FSU game he has made 5-11 (45%).
Definitely Kendall needs to work on his shooting and thus being able to get his attempt totals up so he can be more threatening, but from the eye test and a few stat comparisons....I know Marshall is a better shooter than Kidd was at the same stage, no doubt about it. With that being said, look at what Kidd managed to do with some hard work and dedication. He is the 3rd all time in 3 pointers made in the NBA. He has made almost 2,000 3 pointers. Marshall has the form and if he shows the dedication, he can become just as good a 3 point shooter as Kidd if not better percentage wise. The fact is, he has to gain more confidence and shoot more....which he is not required to do with Barnes, Bullock, and Hairston on the perimeter.
The 2nd incorrect notion is that he is not a good scorer. Well, like the 3pt attempts, he pretty much isnt a good scorer due to the fact that he is so pass first oriented that he does not look for his shot. If he were asked to do more scoring on a team with lesser offensive talent, he would easily be a double double guy. The part of his offensive game that stands out is his ability to get in the lane and close to the basket with his strength, he is usually able to score...which makes him even more dangerous because he has good passing ability when he gets in the lane.
Another weapon in his offensive arsenal is his spin move in the paint off of the fast break. Anyone who has seen a lot of UNC knows exactly what I am talking about. That move is deceptive as hell for a player who is considered to be subpar athletically....he does it all the time and you dont know when its coming because he is such a threat to pass!
Lastly, Marshall will be a set shooter from deep on the next level, just as Kidd is....but Marshall's midrange has good form and he is good on the midrange pullup as well.
If I were a scout, this would be my offensive report on him. So I dont think there are as many question marks about him as it is made out to be....as I said, my major concern with him is his defensive footing.
I really think he doesn't take many shots because he's basically the worst offensive player on the floor, it's common sense. I think he could score around 15+ ppgon a bad team, but he would probably be really inefficient.
His 3pt shot makes me cringe and most of the time you know it's not going in
Not meaning to knock Marshall, I really like him and I would be happy to see him improve, now passing is still the only skill that stand outs, but boy does it stand out.
Marshall's defense is not nearly as potent as Kidd's. His attitude towards defense is not the same, nor his lateral quickness. I think people underestimate how athletic Kidd was at the same age as Marshall.
I see Marshall as a large defensive liability in the NBA. However his exceptional passing will find him a niche in the NBA. I don't expect Marshall to be an instant impact player in the NBA.
I just don't agree with the Kidd comparison. The only thing I think compare are their mediocre shooting and their vision to put their teammates in the best possible scoring situation. I see Marshall as being more of a Marcus Williams (from UConn) than a Jason Kidd as far as the way they play as well as impact they have in the NBA. Marshall will get more PT than Williams though just because of the fact he will have to play with how high he will be drafted.
Marshall is a phenomenal college basketball point guard. NBA wise I don't see it with how athletic the point guards are these days.
While I think Marshall may be the most valuable player in the country and should be in the mix for ACC player of the year because of what he does for UNC, I just don't see him being anything more than a decent backup in the NBA. He is not a good defender, which isnt a good combo with being a poor scorer, especially in today's PG heavy NBA.
I see him being exactly like Marcus Williams, both guys are bigger pass first PGs who dont provide enough scoring punch but make excellent college PGs. Williams was very good for UConn and also got the JKidd Comparison, but just didnt fit in the NBA, and as much as I like Marshall I see the same fate for him.
Idk how good he can be as a poor mans J-Kidd minus the D.
I dont like him at the next level. He's on a team with alot of weapons at the collegiate level, and a team that doesn't care much for guarding anybody. I think that at the next level he's going to struggle because he's so offensively challenged.
....now before you put words in my mouth....I never said Marshall is a great defender or on the athletic level that Kidd was on....if you read you will see those are my main concerns about him. I am not arguing those points. Kidd was easily better athletically than Marshall so I dont underate JKidd at all in that regard....as I said, I seen him in college and HS.
Everyone compares him to Kidd and there is an undeniable reason why.....they both would MUCH RATHER PASS than shoot. Plain and simple. They get as much satisfaction out of a sweet dime as KD does hitting a sweet jumper or Vince does when making a spectacular dunk. They are always looking for a way to exploit the defense with a pass and they have the vision and IQ to do it.
In no way do I endorse him as the next JKidd, but at the same time, there is no one I have seen who resembles JKidd as much as KMarsh.
The kidd comparison is way off.....kidd was a good athletic with cat like quickness....he was never that good of a shooter but he pretty much got to the cup with ease.......on top of that he was a top notch defender....you seriously must be talking about the current kidd cause there isn't much to compare outside there vision/passing ability.....
Anton, what makes you "cringe" about his shot? peep the video below. He has good form and good arc, something Kidd didnt have at the same stage. Kidd's form wasnt that bad that I remember but it wasnt as good as KMarsh....and Kidd had absolutely no arc on his shot. When a player with good form hits shots like below and goes 2-4 in some games and is shooting 5-11 in his last 8 games or so....thats not luck and anyone that balls or have balled knows that. Its a matter of working to get better at shooting. He is as a better shooter than Kidd was at that stage and he has better form and arc than Kidd did and Kidd turned out to be a good 3pt shooter. Thats all I am saying.
If you want to say he will be a bust because of athleticism or defensive ability, you have every right to feel that way and I wont disagree. I just want someone to give some conclusive evidence that he is hopeless as a shooter and zero threat as a scorer.
"you seriously must be talking about the current kidd cause there isn't much to compare outside there vision/passing ability....."
that is what I am comparing. why is it when someone post similarities on this site its always taken as a direct profile overlay? I didnt say he is the next JKidd and I didnt say he is another JKidd.
READ CLOSELY: DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE OVERWHELMING CONSENSUS HERE IS THAT KENDALL MARSHALL CANNOT SHOOT.....I AM COMPARING MARSHALL AND KIDD AS SHOOTERS AT THE SAME STAGE....NOTHING MORE. I AM ALSO SAYING THAT MARSHALL IS UNDERATED AS FAR AS SCORING POTENTIAL. I DID NOT SAY HE WILL BE R.O.Y. OR AN ALL-STAR IN 3 YEARS!!! PLEASE COMMENT ON THAT ASPECT OF THE TOPIC!
You don't break Kendall Marshall down, Kendall Marshall breaks you down.
Yea Marshall doesn't do it for me in the NBA. Yea he can pass but his defense and inability to create his own shot is a problem. Yea sure anybody can spin for a layup or knock down a pull up jumper on the FASTBREAK! (ex. Dee Brown)
The Kidd comparison b/c dude can pass is shallow. Kidd brought more to the game than that. Top notch perimeter defense, can hit the open 3 and he rebounds on both ends of the court. Kidd was a triple-double waiting to happen
I am a HUGE fan of Marshall. He is the best PG in the nation. A lot of you will be suprised with him in the NBA.
Dog on him all you want about defense. He moves his feet very well. Keep in mind that he is THE ONLY PG on UNC's roster. He cannot play the aggresive defense that one would like him to play, due to foul trouble. There are not many PG's even in the NBA that have his vision and he just breaks down the defense and it looks like he has eyes on the back of his head.
I don't see why he can't have an impact in the NBA like Rubio is right now.
He's not the only PG on UNC roster dude...check that roster again they have Stillman White on the squad who can ball too..he can;t have the impact like Rubio b/c he can't score or defend
"The Kidd comparison b/c dude can pass is shallow. Kidd brought more to the game than that."
I dont know how many times I have to say it...if you didnt read the post. Other people are comparing him to JKidd and yes I have made that comparison as well as far as his court vision....but I never went beyond that. On THIS thread, I am debating the fact right now that Marshall is a terrible shooter and poor scorer. Do you have anything to add to the topic as far as that is concerned??? Everyone is coming in here saying Kendall Marshall is not Jason Kidd. This topic is only comparing them as shooters. Not defense, not potential, not passing, not athleticism.......AS SHOOTERS at the same level in college.
compare to Kidd??? hahaha wowww NO WAYYYYY.. Marshall a bum, he just playing with a good team and a good system... He reminds me of mark jackson or marcus williams tho
^ you just called kendall marshall a bum then compared him to Mark Jackson the 3rd leading assist man in the history of the NBA. Way to make yourself look like a complete tool.
Does it really matter if compares to the worst part of Kidds game? Kidd is not a great player because of his shooting abilities. He is not as good as kidd in any other aspect of the game.
Jason Kidd hasn't been able to run or defend anyone for five years, and he has still been a quality point guard despite those limitations. Knowing how to run an offense, read a defense, and get people the ball in a position to succeed is a valuable skill. Kendall Marshall has talent around him, but that talent didn't look all that good with Larry Drew running the show. Don't act like he is simply riding talent. Last year wasn't that long ago.
Also, Marcus Williams failed in the NBA because he was immature and lazy. Most players in the league aren't good enough to be an idiot. Williams was no different. He got three chances and blew them all. This came after issues at UConn (stealing laptops) and during the predraft process where he dropped quite a bit (showed up out of shape). If you want to compare the style of the two that is fine, but the failure (character) of Williams is something that cannot be transferred onto Marshall.
hahaha idc, i really dont. yall care more than i do aahahahahah
BothTeams- good point on Williams and I have no idea what Marshall is like off the court. But on it, he plays the same style. Both were pass first PGs, neither one looked to score a whole lot, both were on the bigger and slower side, and Marshall is not a good defender. UNC is able to mask alot of that with all of their size.
While Marcus Williams never made it in the NBA due to his laziness, I think he was also physically limited, and he really didnt make up for it with craft. I see the same thing happening with Marshall. I still hold to my opinion that he may be the most valuable player in the country and certainly on the UNC team. He makes them a legit national champ contender and has alot to do with the production of Barnes, Bullock, Hairston, Henson and Zeller.
PabloFiasco do you watch UNC basketball? Whenever White is in the game UNC has 6'8" Barnes bring the ball up the court. White was an insurance policy after Drew up and left the team last year and can only be in the game for about a minute to give Marshall a break. That is why I said there is no other PG on the roster. Not to mention White is gone for a Mormon mission after this year and I would put my money on him transferring to BYU after. If Marshall gets into foul trouble or injured UNC is a worse team than they were 2 years ago. Marshall IS UNC, just ask Barnes who sky rocketed when Drew left last year.
It's so funny when Rubio entered the draft everyone said the same thing about him. He can't score, he can't defend and look at him now. Marshall and Rubio's form on their shot is exactly the same except Marshall is a lefty. Marshall has an incredible head on his shoulders.
Marshall has proven he can score when needed in a lot of games. Look at the boxscores of Wake Forest this year, Miami this year, Game 1 against Clemson last year, NC State last year, vs. Duke last year, Washington in the NCAA tourney. I agree that he doesn't look for his shot as much as maybe he should, but it isn't for physical or skill limitations, he just loves to pass. And as long as UNC wins, so be it for him.
"Does it really matter if compares to the worst part of Kidds game? Kidd is not a great player because of his shooting abilities. He is not as good as kidd in any other aspect of the game."
this thread was not about Kidd vs Marshall or comparing them as players. I read on another thread that Machado was better than Marshall. I am not debating that either. I am just saying whenever someone says that Marshall is overated or somebody is better than him, the main reason they site is because they say he cant shoot.
people have compared his court vision to Kidd, but really, I was just comparing him to Kidd on this thread in the terms that everyone said that Kidd couldnt shoot when he came out of HS. And he wasnt a good shooter, but he improved and he is the 3rd leading all time in 3 point FGs.
I simply was using Kidd as a comparison shooting wise because he was the best example of a guy who wasnt known to be a good shooter but turned himself into a legitimate outside thread.
FORGET I EVEN MENTIONED KIDD.....IF YOU GIVE ME ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF A GUY WHO PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS A BAD SHOOTER BUT TURNED INTO A GOOD ONE, WE WILL USE THAT PLAYER FOR THE COMPARISON. YOU GUYS JUST DIDNT READ MY POST. I JUST WANTED TO DISPELL THE NOTIONS THAT MARSHALL IS A TERRIBLE SHOOTER AND SCORER AND FOR THE FORMER I COMPARED HIS SHOOTING TO KIDD AS COLLEGE PLAYERS ONLY! I NEVER WENT ANY FURTHER.
you are just about the only one that got the actual main idea of my post. because I compared his shooting in 2 years at UNC to Kidd in 2 years at Cal somehow this got turned into Kendall Marshall being another JKidd.
now that you have compared his detractors to the same ones who were skeptical of Rubio.....people will now say that you are labeling him as another Rubio.
the point is, there are always question marks about players translating to the next level, I just wanted to give my take on Marshall's shooting and scoring ability. I have seen bad shooters in college, and they didnt shoot 38% from deep. I will bet you Marshall's 3pt% gets closer to that number as the season goes on.
I will say I am skeptical of Marshall's defense....I was skeptical of Rubio's as well. I am not however skeptical about his shooting and ability to score when he has to.
When Kidd came out of Cal, had you asked anyone at that time did they think he would finish his career as top 5 in assists.....they wouldve said yes. Ask those same people at that time if they thought he would finish in the top 5 in 3pt fgs made all time and they wouldve said you were crazy. Kidd is an anomoly because you can take the top 200 3 pt fg leaders all time and he is probably the only one that has ever been considered at one point and time in his basketball career as a bad shooter.....or not a good shooter. Yet he is top 3.
I just dont think Marshall is a bad shooter and I dont think he is as nondescript as a scorer either. Those are elements he will have to prove he can be decent at because that is the imbalance in his game currently.
I wouldn't doubt a player who literally make everyone one his team better just by being on the floor. He's slow and not very athletic, but he's a big PG with strength so it offsets it in some ways. Marshall will have to be masked somewhat in the NBA on D, but a guy with that kind of passing ability and ways to finds to find players who run the floor and move without the ball will be good. And BTPH was exactly right on the difference between Williams and Marshall. Williams was a headcase and he was poorly conditioned. Marshall is neither.