Brandon Knight Stock Falling?
I looked at the mock that was updated yesterday and couldn't help but notice Knight was not even in the Top 15 picks.
Aran has Knight as the 4th rated PG to Orlando behind Irving, Selby, & Walker. I like the pick to Orlando, but if that were to happen Knight would not get any burn for a very PG/SG heavy team.
If Knight ends up coming out this year for the draft, where could we expect him to be picked in the draft with the addition of a performance from the Tourney?
On another thread someone had posted a link saying an analyst rated Knight as a 2nd Round pick, which with that being said he is playing piss poor. The Cory Joseph Thread if I remember correctly.
But according to Chad Ford, this is what executives are saying.
"But the one guy virtually everyone mentioned was Kentucky point guard Brandon Knight. Most of the scouts and executives I spoke with struggled with him as a first-rounder, let alone a lottery pick."
Here is the link (insider)
So, Knight was moved to number 7 while in Hawaii. Hawaii was his worst stretch of games this year. As a matter of fact, his only terrible game came there. He shot the ball poorly. AND thats what one of his strengths is. Since then, he has been praised by his teammates and Cal for his team management and PG skills. Anyone with two eyes can see that he is a PG.
Consider this as well. John Wall averaged fewer points (he didn’t need to score as much), more turnovers while NOT running the dribble drive offense and having big men to drop the ball off too. He had 8 games the entire season over 20 points. He had 16 games of 5 turnovers or more. He shot a lower percentage from the free throw line and from the floor (slight slight margin).
Knight has 7 games of 20 or more points. If you analyze the numbers further you will see that Knight is on a tear and the poor assist ratio is due to a stretch of a couple poor outings.
With all that being said, Knight being so heavily underrated right now is a joke. I think a big problem is that Knight isn’t extra flamboyant with his play. He is keying in on what Coach Cal has asked of him. That is all. If you want the highlight film, just YouTube him, the evidence is all there.
In the last nine games knight is averaging 2.3 TO vs. 4.4 assist just to be clear on his progression. The numbers are skewed due to early trouble. To say his court vision is terrible is just silly and overstated. You have to avtually watch the games. Knights numbers are actually better the Wall's last year overall. Knight is running UK and they will only go as far as he does. Ask Cal, the guy known for PG's
I think Knight is taking a hit for not being Rose, Evans, or Wall. Kentucky is still a really good team, but they aren't like the squad last year where they were just brimming with NBA talent. It is a real college team where all the players have flaws and the freshmen don't play like seasoned vets. I do think, though, that whatever drop in perception will eventually be corrected. It is probably more about finding where the right spot is. He has played poorly in some of their highest profile games, but it was still the play of a freshman in his first month of play.
You couldn't have said it any better.......I honestly think he is getting punish too for not being a Rose, Evans, or Wall which is not fair to him as an individual. He is not going to WOW you with fancy play like I said time & time again, he gets the job done though. If he gets any comparisons from any of the 3 I mentioned it should be Evans. Tyreke is not a freak athlete but he dazzles us with fancy ball-handling & passes with the ability to attack the basket. Out of coach Cal's highly touted guards he has coached with the exception of Dajuan Wagner, Knight is the best PURE shooter he has coached in a while.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND...17ppg4rpg4apg nice shooting super young...what else they want??
he started even to show more pg skills and from top10 he dropped to late first round..
same with C.J. Leslie..last three games 19/9 19/6 15/9 and he somehow fell from lottery to late first round too.
i just don't understand
Everyone expects him to be Rose-Evans-Wall all in 1 is what I am assuming SMDH
This goes to show some Gm's and their scouts are stupid. I wonder what is the criteria for being a scout or general manager. I think he has more to do with who you are and who you know than actually ability.
Soem are either Stupid or they are doing what they usually do. Down talk a player so they can drop to where they have a chance to pick them. Teams do that every year so they can get a guy. They even create false rumors
Knight is a very smart kid, I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to stay and finish up his degree. Patterson finished school in three years, so maybe Knight could do the same. Plus, it gives him more time to work on those PG skills.
I could be wrong, but I think Knight might already be a sophmore academic wise. He just got a 4.0 from UK, but I think he took a ton of college credit courses his senior year of high school. That being said along with summer course work, he could graduate sooner than 3 years. I hope he comes back one more year. The thought of him, Miller, Liggins and Lamb with next year's class is down right scary.
Yea but patterson wasn't a first rounder after his first year. Yeah he could stay for 4 years but its very highly unlikely. There have been many players with very good grades who elected to go int he draft if they knew they were first round/lotto picks. Like i said its possible but not very likely
I dont think he's taking a Hit becuz he's not Rose,Wall or Evans...Scouts said from the start,that he wasn't as talented as those guys...And very few people thought Evans would be the type of player he has became..If they did he would've went number 2 or 3...
I've heard some people say Lamb is the 2nd best prospect on that Kentucky team..Scouts today are so in love with a player's athleticism then his knowledge of the game...Branden Wright was a very athletic player coming out of college..But Kevin Love had a better basketball IQ...
I think Knight's game is more nba ready then most people think,becuz he's a smart kid that has great ball handling and shooting skills ..Even though he's skinny ,he's wiry strong....True he's not an instant impact player like Rose ,Wall or Evans but he's going to make some team happy...
Brandan Wright & Kevin Love were in 2 different HS & NBA classes.
@Rude i was thinking the same thing whenever i watch Knight play. His game just seems like its better built for the NBA
If I remember correctly, Patterson was a first round prospect his freshman year until he got hurt. Regardless, no one is saying Knight will stay four years, looks like 3 years is all he would need to finish academically. But I agree with you, if Knight projects to be a lottery pick, then he should go ahead and enter this year's draft, you can always go back to school.
You are dead on about your post dealing with GM's and scouts talking players down aka blowing smoke. Happens every year and I'm sure a guy like Chad Ford gets alot of it. There are certainly question marks about Knight's game as there are for other players, but scouts saying he is a second round pick? Haha, yeah right.
@morgatil That would be pretty impressive if Knight could finish in 2 1/2 years.
Same Reason Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Gilbert Arenas, and Mo Williams all fell to the second. Not a pg and will never be just a pg, and that will make teams pass on him. If he were to a have a mild injury and look less athletic at the draft camp like Monta did could cause himto fall as well. 4 assists to nearly 4 turnovers doesn't scream pg to me. So teams would be draftinga guy eho can handle and shoot, d up when he's into it, who MAY develop decision making and passing, and is short/skinny for 2 guard. It's all about perception. I had a feeling one of he or Selby were going to drop more than they should for the same reason.
He's a better prospect than any Guard not named Kyrie Irving. Kemba is not a better pro prospect than Knight. What u see is what u get with Walker. Selby could be boom or bust in the nba. Too risky a pick for pg in the top 10. Brandon Knight will be a great pick where ever he's drafted.
Scarecrow, I don't think Knight is as good a prospect as Selby. Selby has a much higher potential IMO. Knight isn't even as good a prospect as Maalik Wayns. IMO, Knight probably has fallen behind the likes of Selby who is showing his scoring ability. Walker who has been near Player of the Year. Demetri McCamey who shed some weight in the offseason and got quickness in return, is proving to be the best pure pg. Wayns who also underachieved until lately, where he has taken the job as full-time pg from Fisher. Then on top of that you have players like Fredette who teams outside of the lottery may even take over Knight based off of production, where Fredette could help a win now team more so than Knight. Anything is possible, so don't be surprised to see Knight as odd man out and drop further than expected.
Yeah I have no doubt's Knight will be a good NBA player. And he'll be a good PG and playmaker. He seems to be cut from the Chauncey Billups mold.
He was thought to be a high second round because teams were thinking he was a undersized PF and he didnt have a jumper then
"Knight isn't even as good a prospect as Maalik Wayns."
He literally does everything Wayns does, and is bigger and more athletic. Wayns is faster running in a straight line, but that's literally the only tthing he has that's better than Knight.
^^ not as good of a prospect?..tell they were joking when whoever said that said that
JNixon, I think you're crazy, show me where he has done anything besides shoot better. And what makes you so sure he'll be a a good playmaker and pg, when he can't even do it at the college level. And don't say it's because he's more NBA than college, because the things he has issues with aren't things that will suddenly be taken care of once entering the NBA, in fact they will get worse. He is not a pass first player,and has TERRIBLE decision making abilities and genuinely doesn't see the floor that well. Congrats, he's flashy and gives up guard penetration at the college level. All while giving up as many turnovers as he gets assisits. Yeah that's definitely a player who is a guarantee legit pg straight outta the Chauncey Billups mold. Not to mention he'sw more than likely also fell behind Nolan Smith. In this draft, IMO, you are gonna see more production over potential IMO, as teams are going to start taking the guys who have proven they can do something, not players who might. And I will go ahead and say Knight is overrated. It's people like you JNixon who make it difficult to assess a player because guys like you want to always act as if a player is going to be the best possible player they could. I see closer to Ben Gordon than Chauncey. At best he's going to be nothing more than Terry. He will never be the player Chauncey was in his prime. In fact Chauncey would have never become Mr. Bigshot without Larry Brown and a TRUE team. be realistic.
And for arguments sake, I'll give it to you that he is at the same level as Maalik, but again, Maalik is another guy who has a lot of flaws and is miore potential over production, but is at least seasoned, and starting to hit his strides as a passer. Just think Knight is coming out a year or so early and will fall due to the fact.
Selby is averaging 4 TO's a game playing at the SG spot. He is a 6 foot 1 two guard. He is however a highlight reel. By the way, he averages less points and assist also. Only 7 games or so in... So we shall see
I dont think Jason Terry is a bad comparison. And getting less turnovers is something that will be corrected at the NBA level just like John Wall and countless other college point guards have done. The thing that gives Knight more potential though is he's a better defender and scorer at the same level as Terry and Gordan. Being a very good midrange shooter also helps him alot and you usually dont see freshmen who are good deep and good midrange shooters as well as being good defenders
For the record, I'm a big Knight fan as he's the guy I want in LA more than anyone realistic as I LOVE his shooting, size, D(when engaged), and size. Personally think he's a better prospect than Wayns as well, just kinda trying to answer that prior post with what I've read from scouts, as they all seem pretty high on Maalik due to his end to end speed and ability to rebound from the pg position, and have fallen out of favor with Brandon because he's being held in higher regard being a Calipari point guard and the fact he has shown very little so far in the pg department. I just think you are overrating his abilities as a pg. There are other intangibles to being a pg than just having a breakdown handle and the ability to make a flashy pass. Knight seems like a smart, humble kid who is a great listener and is good at taking criticism and applying what he learned from that. He may end up as a pg, but so far I think he is a little behind the curve to become a full time PG, but then again I pushed for Jrue Holiday last year the way you are with Knight while everyone told me I was fullish. So who knows, maybe sometimes you can just see what a player has and perhaps this is it for you and you're right. time will tell, until then, I have Walker, McCamey, Smith, Wayns,Selby, and possibly Fredette. But at the same time he could move ahead of everyone not named Walker at this point.
Yeah it's all about projection man. That was a nice rant, but seriously, Knight is a much better prospect than Wayns.
Maalik Wayns isn't as good a prospect as Knight because despite production alot about his game doesn't project easily. He's already a poor shooter and finisher, and at his size he'll always struggle to finish at the rim. He's already pretty strong, so I don't see Wayns ever being an efficient scorer especially at the rim unless he learns to get like Jimmer Fredette and get SUPER clever around the rim. Knight already has shown the ability to shoot and finish, and he's gotten smarter about shot selection and since the UConn game his A/TO is 1.6:1 as opposed to having 14 assists and 23 TO's at that point. He's getting better about protecting the ball, and you have to think he'll continue to get better about in the long term. I'm not concerned with that. It's something that will tone down as he gets older.
You act like Ben Gordon and Jason Terry suck or somethin lol
I think its a case of bad talking a guy so he can drop into there lap. Like i said before it happens alot. sometimes the team will put out a rumor that tyhe kid has some type of injury to scare away teams. I asked my brothers friend and he said there are a few teams that are very interested in Brandon and that he believes some teams will put out some rumor so he will drop
I agree he has been playing much better as of late, it could just be a fluke or just as easily be him finally getting comfortable and figuring out the speed and physicality of the NCAA compared to high school. To say that Wayns can't become a good finisher is not exactly accurate. Proper coaching, and work on a floater would work wonders for his game as a scorer. Jumpshot is the easiest thing in basketball to develop, so he may still figure that aspect out. Lowry is just now finally showing signs of life as a shooter, and if he can anyone can. The fact he has that build just says he has better tools to work with once he gets some professional coaching. Wayns isn't the greatest prospect, but I think you are greatly underestimating him in general. Could turn out very Felton like. If you recall, Felton while stocky, had his issues finishing in the paint at the college level while lacking certain pg qualities the same way Wayns does, and we see how he has turned out. Here's how I see it IMO.
Knight-upside Chauncey Billups/downside DaJuan Wagner/most likely Jason Terry
Wayns-upside Raymond Felton/downside Darius Washington/most likely Kyle Lowry
I'll personally take either as a young pg to develop. Wayns is far more likely to have a role off the bench as a change of pace guard though just because he hasn't really developed that much since arriving at Nova, though he is still fairly young as well.
"I dont think he's taking a Hit becuz he's not Rose,Wall or Evans...Scouts said from the start,that he wasn't as talented as those guys...And very few people thought Evans would be the type of player he has became..If they did he would've went number 2 or 3...
I've heard some people say Lamb is the 2nd best prospect on that Kentucky team..Scouts today are so in love with a player's athleticism then his knowledge of the game...Branden Wright was a very athletic player coming out of college..But Kevin Love had a better basketball IQ...
I think Knight's game is more nba ready then most people think,becuz he's a smart kid that has great ball handling and shooting skills ..Even though he's skinny ,he's wiry strong....True he's not an instant impact player like Rose ,Wall or Evans but he's going to make some team happy..."
If someone ignores the preseason hype or previous Calipari points and just looks at the performance of a freshman who turned 18 years old a month ago, I have a hard time believing scouts would be so critical of Knight leading a young, inexperienced team to a 13-3 record and putting up a 17.4-4.0-3.6 line. Now, I understand how a disproportionate weight is placed on his poor performance in Hawaii because those events are made for scouts, but I don't think there is a great amount of staying power considering that there is the conference season, conference tournament, and NCAA tournament for him to make up for it.
"To say that Wayns can't become a good finisher is not exactly accurate. Proper coaching, and work on a floater would work wonders for his game as a scorer. Jumpshot is the easiest thing in basketball to develop, so he may still figure that aspect out. Lowry is just now finally showing signs of life as a shooter, and if he can anyone can. The fact he has that build just says he has better tools to work with once he gets some professional coaching. Wayns isn't the greatest prospect, but I think you are greatly underestimating him in general. Could turn out very Felton like. If you recall, Felton while stocky, had his issues finishing in the paint at the college level while lacking certain pg qualities the same way Wayns does, and we see how he has turned out. Here's how I see it IMO."
Wayns already has a floater in his arsenal though, and he still is a inefficient finisher. He could develop a better jumper, but I don't think he'll ever be more than average. Felton was an inefficient PG for Charlotte as it is, his shooting % were low and who's A/TO wasn't great. He became a decent PG upon playing in New York, in a system that caters to a PG. Wayns is an even worse finisher than Felton was in college as well. Wayns' upside to me is Kyle Lowry, a solid backup PG who plays tough D on the ball and has decent jets.
We differ in that regard, because I see his upside that of Felton, just happens that Maalik is a guy who will probably never reach his potential therefore making him much more Kyle Lowry. And any team who wants Lowry or Felton as a primary scorer probably isn't going to be that good to begin with. He's a complimentary player who drafted is the type of guy like Fredette, who a team outside of the lottery just looking for pieces like Utah for instance would be more likely to take Fredette and Wayns due to their ability to come in and play the back-up spot from day one. that's all I'm saying. Just saying, don't think that just because Knight has the better upside, and tools for molding, and higher early season projections that he will just be automatic for the lotto, or 1st round for that matter. I've messed around with a couple of mocks where he fell to the 31st pick in one. Even fell to like 35 on one. Just starting to look like he's the unlucky guy who falls and makes people look stupid.
I don’t get this Brandon knight dropping. OK, I accept if people compared him to rose, evans and wall because all of them are freshman sensation coming out in HS, all played pg and all played under coach cal in college. We know how good rose, evans and wall right now in the nba. Rose is #1 pick, evans #4 pick and wall is #1 pick, so why Brandon knight drop on the 20’s pick at this stage? I don’t get that. Is knight averaging 5 pts, 2 reb and 2 ast right now to drop that low? Lets compared knights average as a freshmen under coach cal to rose, evans and wall freshman averages under coach cal system. The stats are all the same. Rose average 15 pts, 4 reb and 5 ast… Evans average 17 pts, 5 reb and 4 ast…. Wall average 16 pts, 4 reb, 6 ast….. knight average 17pts, 4 reb, 4 ast so far. Not to mention that brandon knight is much younger as a freshmen than those 3. And Brandon knight is 2 times Gatorade player of the year, only lebron and oden accomplished that and both are #1 pick overall. This so called basketball experts who drop knight are all stupid, btw I want my sacramento kings to draft Brandon knight. Terrence jones is my 1st choice for my kings but if jones is already taken I will go for knight.
You guys are completely passing up history. Time and time again score first pg's have come out in the draft a year or so too early, and fell due to their "perceived" lack of PG skills where in reality they just didn't wait to develop the skills in college, instead choosing todevelop in the pro's. Javaris Crittenton fell in a bad pg class after being touted as the second coming of Steve Francis, Bayless was pegged top 5 draft night but managed to fall to like 11 or so. Mo Williams was a good college shooter but was perceived to lack pg abilities, and happened to be in a draft full of pg's with less potential, but were more proven pg's at the time such as Hinrich, Banks, Ford, Ridnour. Monta Ellis and Lou Williams both fell to the second round due to the fact neither had pg mindset. Ramon Sessions is another name brought up. Tony Parker was taken very late 1st as was Barbosa. Farmar and Marcus Williams were lottery picks on here draft night but both fell late first. Point is, a bad draft camp, a bad tourney, and you could see him fall is all I'm saying. And again, this isn't a negative post towards Knight, simply saying that once you exit the lottery and first 3-4 picks, teams aren't always drafting on potential and go for a guy who they know can step in as a role player but could develop into more. Wayns is the type of Burly, fast pg, who can D up that just strikes me as a workout warrior. And when it comes to percieved potential, a lot of gm's are going to see that thik frame and think that with NBA training that he could develop in areas. Give me Knight over Maalik, but I don't think GM's see it that way.
Selby could be the guy that falls just as easily though, IMO as he is having to play out of position and is short. He's a better athlete than Knight though IMO.
brandon knight is freshman, if you want to compared knight to wayns, compared wayns freshman stats to brandon knight stats today (what wayns freshman stats 6 pts 1 reb, 1 ast...oh pls). brandon knight is 4th best prospect in this coming draft behind terrence jones, kyle irving and jared sullinger, josh selby will complete the top 5. and i dont think knight will drop that low in the actual draft.....SMOKESCREEN!
NBA gm's are high on freshman players who gives good stats on their 1st year in college. barnes is not as good as what people expected but if he declares to join the draft, he still a top 10 pick.
will college player of the year beat those freshmans in nba draft top pick? i don't think so, nolan smith may win college player of the year but he will ends up in 2nd round or late 1st round at best. back to wayns, since wayns is sophomre player, jordan hamilton is the best sophomore player by far. before i draft wayns i will draft hamilton 1st.
Wayns played behind one of the better college guards. Big difference. Just looked and saw that the only reason Knight has looked less Turnover prone in the past nine games its because he had a game where he had 8ast to no t.o.'s, and a 4-0 gamebut has only had 7 games all season with positive a-t ratio. That's less than half. Also, take a look at his minutes he played in those games and he orchestrates that offense with free reign as the coach on the court, yet as good of a pg as he is and yet he still can't rack up assists. I could see John wall avg 3.5-4 t.o.s when the guy avg like 7 ast, but for some one who has the ball as much as Knight, and the talent he has, he should be making more plays for people. I'm not tryin to diss on Knight people, stop thinkin I'm putting him down, I think he's a great player who isn't without flaw. I'm trying to explain as to why him falling is quite possible whether everyone on here thinks so or not. He's not such a spectacular Prospect that 26 teams out of 30 are going to have him top on their list, or even in top 5 for that matter. And that's how an NBA draft goes, teams rank players 1-60 as to who they want and mark em off as they go. Sometimes a team may have him 2nd on their list but they happen to get the main guy they wanted therefore dropping Knight to another team who may not be as high on him as they need proven players who can step in right away, so he drops another section of the draft, next group of teams draft off of potential but happen to get the better prospect who fell also, now all of a sudden Knight has fell yet again, because he's not a must have prospect. Even though Gilbert Arenas was a beast, certain teams in certain drafting positions didn't think he was their favorite player at the time. It's how those draft steals occurr. Think about it, the Thunder who really have no need for another pg, may have Trey Thompkins,Kris Joseph,Tyler Honeycutt, and even Keith Benson higher on their list because they have no need to develop another player when they have gone win now mode, and anyone of those guys could be there at the pick as well as Knight, yet he has the misfortune of slipping. Just ask Rashard Lewis about hanging in the green room until the second round because he came out a year too early.
Wall would not average that many assist. No one does running the dribble drive. Wall played a more traditional offense last year. If Knight played in a traditional offense he would average less. By the way, he is not averaging 4 a game but 3.2 or something. That variation matters. The number will continue to go down. Exactly right about having the ball, he plays more minutes then any of the other players you are talking about because the team doesn't sustain itself without him. Therefore, he is averaging less turnovers then wall while playing more minutes and playing in a more difficult offense. Many times he makes the play happen but doesn't get the assist. The offense is designed to drive. He sets the play up, puts the players in the right positions, pass the ball, and it doesn't really get back to him unless he is the shooter. You can't get the assist on your own shot. You have to watch games to understand and not look for stats. ALTHOUGH, his stats are better then anyone mentioned.
Umm. The dribble drive offense is the offense best suited for Knights game. If almost all of the GM's in the NBA see the same issues as I do, don't you think most likely these are genuine issues that can keep him from dropping. Every single person who posts regarding this besides JNixon has looked at this as if I'm putting Knight down and saying he isn't a good prospect. That's not the case, I'm just giving examples of reason's why his stock is falling and everyone just seems to keep showing me reasons why its impossible for him to fall. Sorry, but he hasn't proven enough to be lock for anything in the draft, so i say, so the GM's say. Having said that, if he was to go back to school and learn more and come out next year or even the year after, he would more than likely be a lock to be drafted lotto. As for now, he's a guy with worlds of potential, but for now has not shown enough on a consistent basis at this level to be taken higher than the more proven guards. So for the last time, Knight is a good player/prospect, but for now, he's just that, a prospect who may not have shown enough yet in terms of consistent pg abilities to warrant extreme love from gm's. Stop hating and understand, I've agreed time and time again on the fact I like Knight as a prospect, but everything I've posted are just examples of reason's he could be dropping. A good tourney will raise him back to lotto, a crappy one drops him like it did Crittenton. Simple as that, when there are flaws in a players game, the tourney can define them. Not making it all can do even worse damage. Point is, everyone just chill and stop tripping. Maybe he falls, maybe he doesn't. We wont know until June.