[aamir543Participant]

Over the years, there have been many questionable decisions and indecisions in regards to the draft, but the one that is often ranked at the top of those gaffes is Bowie over Jordan.

We all bash Portland for that pick, saying that Jordan and Drexler could have been the start of somthing even more special, but what I personally have always wondered is what was the feeling about the pick at the time. In 1984, was Portland picking Bowie viewed as a bad pick, or a step in the right direction?

I don’t expect anyone to vividly remember anything from that time period, cause it was quite a while ago, but from what you have heard or been told, what was the feeling about the pick.

This of course is a lot different than Oden over Durant. We all knew Durant would be a prolifc scorer, we all knew Oden had injury problems, but the fact of the matter was that centers don’t grow on trees, (neither do extremly long and athletic 6-10 shooting wings, but you get my point) and I remember Indiana Basketball saying somthing that I believe we would all agree with. "If god promised me Oden would stay healthy, I would still take Oden"

Now, no matter how good Bowie could have been, no one would EVER take him over Jordan.

And also, was Bowie dominating in college, and making people’s jaw drop,(sort of like Oden) or was he viewed as a big risk/big reward type of player?

 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Bowie did not dominate in college and showed major signs that durability would be an issue for him in the pros. He missed two full college seasons due to leg injuries (his shins I believe)! When healthy he showed great promise but you have to keep in mind that despite getting drafted after his junior season he was already 23 years old and had averaged just 10.5 PPG and 1.9 BPG in his last season at Kentucky.

That being said you have to keep in mind that Portland had drafted a very promising SG just the previous season with their first rounder. That SG would turn out to be a hall of famer; Clyde Drexler.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Bowie did not dominate in college and showed major signs that durability would be an issue for him in the pros. He missed two full college seasons due to leg injuries (his shins I believe)! When healthy he showed great promise but you have to keep in mind that despite getting drafted after his junior season he was already 23 years old and had averaged just 10.5 PPG and 1.9 BPG in his last season at Kentucky.

That being said you have to keep in mind that Portland had drafted a very promising SG just the previous season with their first rounder. That SG would turn out to be a hall of famer; Clyde Drexler.

[ghrghrParticipant]

I don’t really remember it, but I’ve heard older people saying that Sam Bowie had a serious injury in college, which made him sit out 2 full seasons. He was great in high school and had a nice freshman year. He had a great sophomore season averaging 17.4 points and 9 rebounds, but when he came back from injury he averaged just 10.5 points.

Hindsight is 20/20 and maybe teams didn’t have doctors as good as they have now, but a franchise needs to be aware of a player’s condition before drafting him. A player can’t have that many injuries because of bad luck, he must have had some kind of problem. 

Bowie was much better tham some people give him credit for, but his injuries never let him play a complete season. 

[ghrghrParticipant]

I don’t really remember it, but I’ve heard older people saying that Sam Bowie had a serious injury in college, which made him sit out 2 full seasons. He was great in high school and had a nice freshman year. He had a great sophomore season averaging 17.4 points and 9 rebounds, but when he came back from injury he averaged just 10.5 points.

Hindsight is 20/20 and maybe teams didn’t have doctors as good as they have now, but a franchise needs to be aware of a player’s condition before drafting him. A player can’t have that many injuries because of bad luck, he must have had some kind of problem. 

Bowie was much better tham some people give him credit for, but his injuries never let him play a complete season. 

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

I never understood why people gave Portland so much Flack and bad press for not selecting Jordan…They only do it becuz of the great player Jordan became..

Why dont they complain about the teams that passed on John Stockton?Teams that let Karl Malone slipped to 13?

Would you believe it that if Jordan had came out in 1985 he would’ve went 4th after Benoit Benjamin?hahahaha..

Every since the inception of the league,teams have placed a big emphasis on going after talented post scoring,shot blocking,rebounding big men over talented perimeter players..

Who knew Jordan would become the best player of All Time?So called experts didnt feel he’ll ever score more than 18 points a game…Bowie had a great freshman year and he did show enuff promise that 1 day he might be an All Star..But injuries took toll of his body and he was never the same….At the time of the draft,Portland

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

I never understood why people gave Portland so much Flack and bad press for not selecting Jordan…They only do it becuz of the great player Jordan became..

Why dont they complain about the teams that passed on John Stockton?Teams that let Karl Malone slipped to 13?

Would you believe it that if Jordan had came out in 1985 he would’ve went 4th after Benoit Benjamin?hahahaha..

Every since the inception of the league,teams have placed a big emphasis on going after talented post scoring,shot blocking,rebounding big men over talented perimeter players..

Who knew Jordan would become the best player of All Time?So called experts didnt feel he’ll ever score more than 18 points a game…Bowie had a great freshman year and he did show enuff promise that 1 day he might be an All Star..But injuries took toll of his body and he was never the same….At the time of the draft,Portland

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

My grandfather is actually a good friend of one of the integral parts of the drafting of Sam Bowie. The thinking was, they needed a Center and they had really positive vibes about Clyde Drexler, who they had drafted the year before and played the exact same pick as Michael. Not only that, but they had another combo guard in Jim Paxson (Bulls GM, brother of John Paxson) who was coming off a season where he had scored 21.3 ppg, at only 26 years old.

They really were only missing a true Center, which is what Bowie was and they believed he would take them to the next level. They had finished 48-34 the year before they drafted Bowie, as they had received the first round pick from Indiana in a 1981 trade for 6’10 and 215 solid PF/C Tom Owens (who would not be the guy taking you to the next level).

The thought process was that they wanted a Center, and there were two in that draft who were seen as possible franchise changers. Hakeem Olajuwon was considered the hands down #1 pick in the draft, he was a rare combination of size, speed and athleticism, not to mention incredibly dominant as a defender. The positives with Bowie were incredibly apparent, he was 7’1 and he was actually a pretty skilled offensive player. 

The major issue with Bowie, at least one would have thought, was that he had missed TWO years at Kentucky due to injury. The guy had a great sophomore year, and I guess he came back his "senior" year to relative success. As a matter of fact, he was a 2nd Team All-American his senior year, where he averaged 10.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.9 apg while averaging just under a couple blocks per game. One would have thought Bowie’s injuries might have made a team think twice, but Bowie had a very positive attitude, had range out to the three point line and really seemed to remind them of Bill Walton as a player who could possibly help them without even having to score. 

The Blazers were very overwhelmed with what to do, and I believe that had some teams been in their situation, Bowie might have been the choice. The major problem is, in hindsight, the Blazers took a "soft" (he definitely was more perimeter oriented than, say, Hakeem Olajuwon) injury prone 7 footer over a transcendent talent seen as the best player to have ever touched a basketball. Michael may not have been pre-ordained by everyone as "the greatest", but he certainly was not a drop dead surprise.

Michael had a pretty fantastic college career, sometimes understated by many. Michael was two years younger, which in these days might have people going insane. He had just come off a year where he swept the Player of the Year awards in the NCAA, so it was not as if people did not know he was great. He was a 1st Team All-American the year before as well, not to mention while many said "Dean Smith was the only man who could hold Michael Jordan under 20", Michael did average 20 as a sophomore.

Word was, there were people in Portland’s ear telling them that skipping over Jordan would have been a major mistake. Supposedly, Bob Knight, Michael’s coach on the 1984 US Olympic Team, called the Trail Blazers and told them they had to take this Jordan kid. When they replied they needed a Center, Bobby Knight said, "Than play him at Center!" It is the ultimate example of drafting need over talent, and I will say it has not been duplicated to this extent.

Even Greg Oden, who had broke his wrist the year before and had no signs of knee problems before the draft, does not compare to the two years of hardcore shin problems that kept Bowie on the sidelines at Kentucky. If Greg had been hurt for two years in college, than taken over Kevin Durant, than it would be understandable to make the comparison. But, I think the Bowie drafting will always live in infamy, as Michael Jordan turned out to be the best. The reason Greg may get more flack than some others is because of how well Kevin Durant has played. If there were better players in the 2001 draft, I am sure Kwame Brown would catch flack as well. Sometimes, hindsight can bite you in the @ss, which is what happened to Sam Bowie. He is a better player than many seem to think, but Michael Jordan turning out to be the best player of All-Time sometimes has Bowie classified as a bigger bust than some players he may indeed be better than.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

My grandfather is actually a good friend of one of the integral parts of the drafting of Sam Bowie. The thinking was, they needed a Center and they had really positive vibes about Clyde Drexler, who they had drafted the year before and played the exact same pick as Michael. Not only that, but they had another combo guard in Jim Paxson (Bulls GM, brother of John Paxson) who was coming off a season where he had scored 21.3 ppg, at only 26 years old.

They really were only missing a true Center, which is what Bowie was and they believed he would take them to the next level. They had finished 48-34 the year before they drafted Bowie, as they had received the first round pick from Indiana in a 1981 trade for 6’10 and 215 solid PF/C Tom Owens (who would not be the guy taking you to the next level).

The thought process was that they wanted a Center, and there were two in that draft who were seen as possible franchise changers. Hakeem Olajuwon was considered the hands down #1 pick in the draft, he was a rare combination of size, speed and athleticism, not to mention incredibly dominant as a defender. The positives with Bowie were incredibly apparent, he was 7’1 and he was actually a pretty skilled offensive player. 

The major issue with Bowie, at least one would have thought, was that he had missed TWO years at Kentucky due to injury. The guy had a great sophomore year, and I guess he came back his "senior" year to relative success. As a matter of fact, he was a 2nd Team All-American his senior year, where he averaged 10.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.9 apg while averaging just under a couple blocks per game. One would have thought Bowie’s injuries might have made a team think twice, but Bowie had a very positive attitude, had range out to the three point line and really seemed to remind them of Bill Walton as a player who could possibly help them without even having to score. 

The Blazers were very overwhelmed with what to do, and I believe that had some teams been in their situation, Bowie might have been the choice. The major problem is, in hindsight, the Blazers took a "soft" (he definitely was more perimeter oriented than, say, Hakeem Olajuwon) injury prone 7 footer over a transcendent talent seen as the best player to have ever touched a basketball. Michael may not have been pre-ordained by everyone as "the greatest", but he certainly was not a drop dead surprise.

Michael had a pretty fantastic college career, sometimes understated by many. Michael was two years younger, which in these days might have people going insane. He had just come off a year where he swept the Player of the Year awards in the NCAA, so it was not as if people did not know he was great. He was a 1st Team All-American the year before as well, not to mention while many said "Dean Smith was the only man who could hold Michael Jordan under 20", Michael did average 20 as a sophomore.

Word was, there were people in Portland’s ear telling them that skipping over Jordan would have been a major mistake. Supposedly, Bob Knight, Michael’s coach on the 1984 US Olympic Team, called the Trail Blazers and told them they had to take this Jordan kid. When they replied they needed a Center, Bobby Knight said, "Than play him at Center!" It is the ultimate example of drafting need over talent, and I will say it has not been duplicated to this extent.

Even Greg Oden, who had broke his wrist the year before and had no signs of knee problems before the draft, does not compare to the two years of hardcore shin problems that kept Bowie on the sidelines at Kentucky. If Greg had been hurt for two years in college, than taken over Kevin Durant, than it would be understandable to make the comparison. But, I think the Bowie drafting will always live in infamy, as Michael Jordan turned out to be the best. The reason Greg may get more flack than some others is because of how well Kevin Durant has played. If there were better players in the 2001 draft, I am sure Kwame Brown would catch flack as well. Sometimes, hindsight can bite you in the @ss, which is what happened to Sam Bowie. He is a better player than many seem to think, but Michael Jordan turning out to be the best player of All-Time sometimes has Bowie classified as a bigger bust than some players he may indeed be better than.

[surveParticipant]

good post…I remember some of what you are saying.  although not vivid I can remember that Bowie had a lot of hype.  your post is interesting in the fact that this is what we try to get across to the younger guys on this forum…is that the game and all of its components change as time goes on.

the draft is not like it used to be…if this pick were today, I would say Jordan and Olajuwon would have been about as debated as Rose/Beasley were, with the 3rd pick being no one person in particular….and probably NOT Sam Bowie.

I just remember him as being oft-injured and missing those seasons at UK.  Today, Jordan or Olajuwon wouldve easily went before him because of their "momentum".  They were players who were improving every year and making leaps and bounds.  Bowie was HEAVILY hyped coming out of high school and won POY honors over Ralph Sampson.  He had a great college career but I vaguely remember that his injuries WERE viewed as a major concern for his draft status. 

The real fact of the matter is, the Blazers wanted a center and already had a young shooting guard with potential.  If it were today, I think Portland wouldve picked Jordan and played the 2 guards together and potentially use one for trade bait somewhere down the road.

At the time, I dont remember it as being an absurd pick but it was definitely a highly questionable one being that Jordan’s game was constantly improving and he was constrained by the college system and UNC’s system.  The pick was simply driven by the fact that Portland needed a Center and Jordan wasnt one.

Also, at the time, elite athleticism wasnt nearly as esteemed as is is today or Drexler wouldve have been picked a lot higher the previous year.  A team would much rather draft for size or to draft a wing player who had a more developed set of perimeter skills than a guy who was a tremendous athlete who you can teach the game to.  This may sound crazy, but if Russell Westbrook was drafted back then I dont believe he wouldve been a top 10 pick after just 2 years in college.  Now Jordan had more skills than Westbrook coming out of college, hence the reason he was picked as high as he was.

Also, they didnt draft as much for potential then as polish.  Another reason why kids stuck around in college for 3 years.  If you were a sophomore who declared you must have really been special.   Bottom line, times were different then and comparing it to today its not fathomable to see how Bowie was picked that high….but that was back then.

[surveParticipant]

good post…I remember some of what you are saying.  although not vivid I can remember that Bowie had a lot of hype.  your post is interesting in the fact that this is what we try to get across to the younger guys on this forum…is that the game and all of its components change as time goes on.

the draft is not like it used to be…if this pick were today, I would say Jordan and Olajuwon would have been about as debated as Rose/Beasley were, with the 3rd pick being no one person in particular….and probably NOT Sam Bowie.

I just remember him as being oft-injured and missing those seasons at UK.  Today, Jordan or Olajuwon wouldve easily went before him because of their "momentum".  They were players who were improving every year and making leaps and bounds.  Bowie was HEAVILY hyped coming out of high school and won POY honors over Ralph Sampson.  He had a great college career but I vaguely remember that his injuries WERE viewed as a major concern for his draft status. 

The real fact of the matter is, the Blazers wanted a center and already had a young shooting guard with potential.  If it were today, I think Portland wouldve picked Jordan and played the 2 guards together and potentially use one for trade bait somewhere down the road.

At the time, I dont remember it as being an absurd pick but it was definitely a highly questionable one being that Jordan’s game was constantly improving and he was constrained by the college system and UNC’s system.  The pick was simply driven by the fact that Portland needed a Center and Jordan wasnt one.

Also, at the time, elite athleticism wasnt nearly as esteemed as is is today or Drexler wouldve have been picked a lot higher the previous year.  A team would much rather draft for size or to draft a wing player who had a more developed set of perimeter skills than a guy who was a tremendous athlete who you can teach the game to.  This may sound crazy, but if Russell Westbrook was drafted back then I dont believe he wouldve been a top 10 pick after just 2 years in college.  Now Jordan had more skills than Westbrook coming out of college, hence the reason he was picked as high as he was.

Also, they didnt draft as much for potential then as polish.  Another reason why kids stuck around in college for 3 years.  If you were a sophomore who declared you must have really been special.   Bottom line, times were different then and comparing it to today its not fathomable to see how Bowie was picked that high….but that was back then.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Even with the stats he had at UNC Jordan still wouldnt not go ahead of Hakeem today..But i think people would have a big debate about who should go 1st Lebron or Hakeem today?

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Even with the stats he had at UNC Jordan still wouldnt not go ahead of Hakeem today..But i think people would have a big debate about who should go 1st Lebron or Hakeem today?

[surveParticipant]

the only reason I would say Jordan wouldnt go ahead of Olajuwon today is because of the Center position.  It would still be deemed easier to get a 2 guard who could score and play defense than a defensive stopper in the middle who could score AND rebound.  I think Lebron would be the consensus over Olajuwon today because Hakeem’s offensive game was still developing…his potential was largely based on the fact that he was a big time rebounder and shot blocker.  Lebron was seen to have an advanced game for an 18 year old, the best parts being his passing and ballhandling.  Again, you cant really compare because times are different.  Today Hakeem would considered an old man at 21 years old compared to an advanced 18 year old like LBJ.

Try to follow me on this…today although a guy like Hakeem would be a big time prospect, its hard to compare because if you put him in at 21 you would have so many younger guys, like the Dwight Howards and such, Hakeems upside wouldnt be considered as high.  The flip side of that is, Hakeem and Jordan honed their skills with college and amatuer play and they worked out with other alumni who were pros and got a chance to develop their skills much more than AAU could do for a player.  Hakeem was still in college but working out with Moses Malone who was the best player in the league at that time or at least the best center.

Now…if you are saying Hakeem at 18, that may be a different story.  I think this is why you have such talent in the league now but no true greatness because of skills not being fully developed.  Hakeem and Jordan are who they are because of their amatuer backgrounds…the same as LBJ is who he is for lack of.

[surveParticipant]

the only reason I would say Jordan wouldnt go ahead of Olajuwon today is because of the Center position.  It would still be deemed easier to get a 2 guard who could score and play defense than a defensive stopper in the middle who could score AND rebound.  I think Lebron would be the consensus over Olajuwon today because Hakeem’s offensive game was still developing…his potential was largely based on the fact that he was a big time rebounder and shot blocker.  Lebron was seen to have an advanced game for an 18 year old, the best parts being his passing and ballhandling.  Again, you cant really compare because times are different.  Today Hakeem would considered an old man at 21 years old compared to an advanced 18 year old like LBJ.

Try to follow me on this…today although a guy like Hakeem would be a big time prospect, its hard to compare because if you put him in at 21 you would have so many younger guys, like the Dwight Howards and such, Hakeems upside wouldnt be considered as high.  The flip side of that is, Hakeem and Jordan honed their skills with college and amatuer play and they worked out with other alumni who were pros and got a chance to develop their skills much more than AAU could do for a player.  Hakeem was still in college but working out with Moses Malone who was the best player in the league at that time or at least the best center.

Now…if you are saying Hakeem at 18, that may be a different story.  I think this is why you have such talent in the league now but no true greatness because of skills not being fully developed.  Hakeem and Jordan are who they are because of their amatuer backgrounds…the same as LBJ is who he is for lack of.

[surveParticipant]

I will tell you why people gave Portland so much flack, it had nothing to do with Bowie’s skills, he was an excellent player.  When I was growing up, there were 2 words that were notoriously associated with Bowie…even before he was drafted.  "Soft Bones"

[surveParticipant]

I will tell you why people gave Portland so much flack, it had nothing to do with Bowie’s skills, he was an excellent player.  When I was growing up, there were 2 words that were notoriously associated with Bowie…even before he was drafted.  "Soft Bones"

[surveParticipant]

with Oden, his leg problems were not forseen but Bowie had prior history.  If it were today, I doubt Bowie wouldve been drafted anywhere near as high as he was in 84 just for the fact that a number of teams have passed on players for health concerns in recent years.  Notably Dejuan Blair.  If he played the way he played at Pitt, with his dominance, yet he slipped as far as he did mostly on the fact that he had no ACL’s…what do you think about a player like Bowie who had missed 2 years of college play?  When Bowie returned he wasnt dominant.  How many games did Blair miss since having his surgeries?  I am not saying teams shouldnt have been concerned with Blair, but compare his history with Bowie’s and tell me how high Bowie would go in a draft today.  Right now I am racking my brain trying to think of a player who had as bad a medical report coming out of college to be drafted high.

[surveParticipant]

with Oden, his leg problems were not forseen but Bowie had prior history.  If it were today, I doubt Bowie wouldve been drafted anywhere near as high as he was in 84 just for the fact that a number of teams have passed on players for health concerns in recent years.  Notably Dejuan Blair.  If he played the way he played at Pitt, with his dominance, yet he slipped as far as he did mostly on the fact that he had no ACL’s…what do you think about a player like Bowie who had missed 2 years of college play?  When Bowie returned he wasnt dominant.  How many games did Blair miss since having his surgeries?  I am not saying teams shouldnt have been concerned with Blair, but compare his history with Bowie’s and tell me how high Bowie would go in a draft today.  Right now I am racking my brain trying to think of a player who had as bad a medical report coming out of college to be drafted high.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

The tragedy for Portland was that not only did they pass on Jordan but they drafted Arvydas Sabonis in 1986 but he didn’t come over until years later. The Trail Blazers were able to turn Sam Bowie into Buck Williams who was a very solid power forward. Had Sabonis come over the core of Drexler, Terry Porter, Sabonis, Buck Williams, and Jerome Kersey probably would have delivered Portland a championship either in 1990 or 1992 when they went to the Finals or in 1994 when Jordan retired or in 1995 when MJ wasn’t back to 100% and when Clyde Drexler won his first ring as a member of the Rockets.

Another thing, Clyde Drexler was talented but he only averaged 8 points the year before that famous draft so I wasn’t like he was a bonafide superstar by then.

Who knows if MJ and Clyde could have coexisted? The real tragedy was that a prime Sabonis could have put
the Drexler-Porter-Kersey-Williams core over the top, to say nothing of a Jordan-Drexler-Sabonis-Porter-Kersey core if
the Blazers had taken the best player available.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

The tragedy for Portland was that not only did they pass on Jordan but they drafted Arvydas Sabonis in 1986 but he didn’t come over until years later. The Trail Blazers were able to turn Sam Bowie into Buck Williams who was a very solid power forward. Had Sabonis come over the core of Drexler, Terry Porter, Sabonis, Buck Williams, and Jerome Kersey probably would have delivered Portland a championship either in 1990 or 1992 when they went to the Finals or in 1994 when Jordan retired or in 1995 when MJ wasn’t back to 100% and when Clyde Drexler won his first ring as a member of the Rockets.

Another thing, Clyde Drexler was talented but he only averaged 8 points the year before that famous draft so I wasn’t like he was a bonafide superstar by then.

Who knows if MJ and Clyde could have coexisted? The real tragedy was that a prime Sabonis could have put
the Drexler-Porter-Kersey-Williams core over the top, to say nothing of a Jordan-Drexler-Sabonis-Porter-Kersey core if
the Blazers had taken the best player available.

[bjcart53Participant]

First bowie over jordan, now oden over durant…As enticing as it is to draft the big man Portland should not the next time…then again something even happened when they got it right with brandon roy…what is in the water in Portland…I love brandon roys game that is just so unfortunate.

[bjcart53Participant]

First bowie over jordan, now oden over durant…As enticing as it is to draft the big man Portland should not the next time…then again something even happened when they got it right with brandon roy…what is in the water in Portland…I love brandon roys game that is just so unfortunate.

[surveParticipant]

again, I dont think the Oden pick was bad at all at the time, plus, the funny thing is, as good as KD was, scouts questioned his strength.  it wasnt that they were looking at who had the most skills…it was a combination of things and one thing that drives scouts wild is for a kid to have a man’s body, which Oden did.  Personally, I liked Durant, but I am just partial to his scoring ability and fluidity for his size…but I did think that Oden would be an absolute monster if healthy.  

[surveParticipant]

again, I dont think the Oden pick was bad at all at the time, plus, the funny thing is, as good as KD was, scouts questioned his strength.  it wasnt that they were looking at who had the most skills…it was a combination of things and one thing that drives scouts wild is for a kid to have a man’s body, which Oden did.  Personally, I liked Durant, but I am just partial to his scoring ability and fluidity for his size…but I did think that Oden would be an absolute monster if healthy.  

[surveParticipant]

I think MJ and Clyde couldve co-existed even if for a short period.  They wouldve been extremely athletic.  Remember what I said in my post before…elite athleticism wasnt AS revered even at that time as it is now.  If that draft were now, teams would be stockpiling athletes.  I would say in the past 15 years, the conventional wisdom has been that you can teach an elite athlete how to play the game but you cant teach elite athleticism.

It is my opinion that back in the 80’s, a guy like Tyrus Thomas or Corey Maggette would NOT be leaving college after their freshman seasons unless they had serious financial obligations to their families or they had gotten in trouble with the team.

No, centers dont grow on trees, guards like Drexler and Jordan were considered more of low/high risk/high reward…even in later times with guys you see like Kobe or T-Mac.  You can see a guy has the skill set but will he be able to adjust to the NBA game, how will he defend, is he turnover prone, decision making, etc….a perimeter player is much more risky because of how much they have to handle the ball.  Centers are mostly always considered low risk/high reward unless they are just a project player.

With all that being said, even at the time of the draft I think the Bowie pick over Jordan was still bad because Bowie was NOT on the level of Ralph Sampson…not even close.   It was a bad pick considering his medical history but still, I am all for drafting for talent first and need second. 

[surveParticipant]

I think MJ and Clyde couldve co-existed even if for a short period.  They wouldve been extremely athletic.  Remember what I said in my post before…elite athleticism wasnt AS revered even at that time as it is now.  If that draft were now, teams would be stockpiling athletes.  I would say in the past 15 years, the conventional wisdom has been that you can teach an elite athlete how to play the game but you cant teach elite athleticism.

It is my opinion that back in the 80’s, a guy like Tyrus Thomas or Corey Maggette would NOT be leaving college after their freshman seasons unless they had serious financial obligations to their families or they had gotten in trouble with the team.

No, centers dont grow on trees, guards like Drexler and Jordan were considered more of low/high risk/high reward…even in later times with guys you see like Kobe or T-Mac.  You can see a guy has the skill set but will he be able to adjust to the NBA game, how will he defend, is he turnover prone, decision making, etc….a perimeter player is much more risky because of how much they have to handle the ball.  Centers are mostly always considered low risk/high reward unless they are just a project player.

With all that being said, even at the time of the draft I think the Bowie pick over Jordan was still bad because Bowie was NOT on the level of Ralph Sampson…not even close.   It was a bad pick considering his medical history but still, I am all for drafting for talent first and need second. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Seeing that Bowie had all of those injuries and that Michael was, after all, an amazing talent. All would have been avoided had Patrick Ewing entered the draft instead of staying for his senior season, because than Portland would have reunited Phi Slamma Jamma years before they finally won a Championship with the Rockets. I remember someone commenting that Hakeem might have still been the first pick, but I believe that Patrick Ewing was indeed more the more highly regarded of the two at the time. Ewing was getting Bill Russell comparisons, many thought whom ever drafted Ewing was on their way to a dynasty. Houston would have taken Pat, Portland would have taken Hakeem. I am guessing the Bulls would have taken Michael, but they were another team in need of a Center.

Sam Perkins indeed was a Center as well, but he was listed at 6’9, while Olajuwon, Ewing and Bowie were all 7 footers. For those that think Hakeem was shorter, he may have been, but his length was pretty fantastic. Still, the draft process has changed radically since than. The analytics and video have made things completely different, not to mention how much the game has changed as well. Back than, it was pretty much an eye test. Their game film was fairly limited, they did not have the internet and not every game was televised. If you did not go to games to scout players, odds were you knew very little about them.

When I asked about the LaRue Martin pick of 1972, I was told about two games. One was a game where Martin outplayed a serviceable Center, and the other was a game in which he held his own against Bill Walton, who would go on to be the first pick in the draft two years later. That, honestly, was all I got. Martin was 6’11 and 208 pounds, and my grandfather described him as having paper hands. He is widely considered the worst first pick in NBA history, playing 4 seasons with career averages of 5.3 ppg and 4.6 rpg, shooting 41.6% from the field and blocking 98 shots in 271 games. He retired the year before Portland won the championship, lead of course by Bill Walton.

The process in which players are evaluated now is completely different, in many ways due to the radical changes in player compensation and the rapid rise over time in early entry players. It is funny, if you go to basketball reference, you will see that they list Michael Jordan as having made more in 1985-86 (the first year they have listed) than Sam Bowie, 630,000-400,000. Now, that definitely does not happen, and in a way I guess scale contracts made it this way. Still, the shift was coming and we now are in the midst of it. Still, until someone else becomes the best basketball player ever, picked anywhere after first, I think the Bowie pick will stand in infamy.

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Seeing that Bowie had all of those injuries and that Michael was, after all, an amazing talent. All would have been avoided had Patrick Ewing entered the draft instead of staying for his senior season, because than Portland would have reunited Phi Slamma Jamma years before they finally won a Championship with the Rockets. I remember someone commenting that Hakeem might have still been the first pick, but I believe that Patrick Ewing was indeed more the more highly regarded of the two at the time. Ewing was getting Bill Russell comparisons, many thought whom ever drafted Ewing was on their way to a dynasty. Houston would have taken Pat, Portland would have taken Hakeem. I am guessing the Bulls would have taken Michael, but they were another team in need of a Center.

Sam Perkins indeed was a Center as well, but he was listed at 6’9, while Olajuwon, Ewing and Bowie were all 7 footers. For those that think Hakeem was shorter, he may have been, but his length was pretty fantastic. Still, the draft process has changed radically since than. The analytics and video have made things completely different, not to mention how much the game has changed as well. Back than, it was pretty much an eye test. Their game film was fairly limited, they did not have the internet and not every game was televised. If you did not go to games to scout players, odds were you knew very little about them.

When I asked about the LaRue Martin pick of 1972, I was told about two games. One was a game where Martin outplayed a serviceable Center, and the other was a game in which he held his own against Bill Walton, who would go on to be the first pick in the draft two years later. That, honestly, was all I got. Martin was 6’11 and 208 pounds, and my grandfather described him as having paper hands. He is widely considered the worst first pick in NBA history, playing 4 seasons with career averages of 5.3 ppg and 4.6 rpg, shooting 41.6% from the field and blocking 98 shots in 271 games. He retired the year before Portland won the championship, lead of course by Bill Walton.

The process in which players are evaluated now is completely different, in many ways due to the radical changes in player compensation and the rapid rise over time in early entry players. It is funny, if you go to basketball reference, you will see that they list Michael Jordan as having made more in 1985-86 (the first year they have listed) than Sam Bowie, 630,000-400,000. Now, that definitely does not happen, and in a way I guess scale contracts made it this way. Still, the shift was coming and we now are in the midst of it. Still, until someone else becomes the best basketball player ever, picked anywhere after first, I think the Bowie pick will stand in infamy.

 

[surveParticipant]

I remembered being surprised at the time with Ewing staying for his senior year. You are right, Ewing was more highly regarded, but only because Hakeem still had a bit of that "project" label because of his very limited basketball experience competitively. Ewing hadnt played his whole life either but I believe he had played about 4 years more than Hakeem at the time…which is a lot when we are talking about 19-20 year olds. So Ewing very well could have went before Hakeem…although I know that even at that time the upside was viewed to be in Hakeem’s favor. Perkins was listed as a Center but had more of a forward type game with his versatility and you are correct again that a 7 footer naturally would have more stock than a similar player 2 or 3 inches shorter. I do think too much is made out of the Jordan thing when the fact of the matter is, if you wouldve switched places with the two…it would be Barkley that everyone would be screaming about getting passed up for Bowie. Revisionist history is a mutha. Its like people knocking the Blazers for choosing Oden….but the same people are slamming all the teams that passed up Blair.

[surveParticipant]

I remembered being surprised at the time with Ewing staying for his senior year. You are right, Ewing was more highly regarded, but only because Hakeem still had a bit of that "project" label because of his very limited basketball experience competitively. Ewing hadnt played his whole life either but I believe he had played about 4 years more than Hakeem at the time…which is a lot when we are talking about 19-20 year olds. So Ewing very well could have went before Hakeem…although I know that even at that time the upside was viewed to be in Hakeem’s favor. Perkins was listed as a Center but had more of a forward type game with his versatility and you are correct again that a 7 footer naturally would have more stock than a similar player 2 or 3 inches shorter. I do think too much is made out of the Jordan thing when the fact of the matter is, if you wouldve switched places with the two…it would be Barkley that everyone would be screaming about getting passed up for Bowie. Revisionist history is a mutha. Its like people knocking the Blazers for choosing Oden….but the same people are slamming all the teams that passed up Blair.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Scouts had Olajuwon rated ahead of Ewing..At the time the so called scouts didnt feel Ewing would be an effective scorer…Ewing would’ve went 2nd..

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

Scouts had Olajuwon rated ahead of Ewing..At the time the so called scouts didnt feel Ewing would be an effective scorer…Ewing would’ve went 2nd..

[iguapops420Participant]

 IMO, since they were wanting a center, Olajuwon is the bigger miss over Jordan. Who knows, Drexler and Hakeem might have stopped Jordan from ever becoming the greatest. Like stated above, hindsite is always 20/20.

[iguapops420Participant]

 IMO, since they were wanting a center, Olajuwon is the bigger miss over Jordan. Who knows, Drexler and Hakeem might have stopped Jordan from ever becoming the greatest. Like stated above, hindsite is always 20/20.

[surveParticipant]

you lost me…how could they get Hakeem?

also, RUDEBOY thats very interesting that you say the scouts considered Olajuwon the better scorer at the time when in college their numbers were very similar…and incidentally, they played about the same length of time in the league and their scoring numbers were similar…yearly and overall.  I saw them both when I was growing up, but as far as NBA potential, my memory of that was vague except for they were the 2 best centers in college ball.

[surveParticipant]

you lost me…how could they get Hakeem?

also, RUDEBOY thats very interesting that you say the scouts considered Olajuwon the better scorer at the time when in college their numbers were very similar…and incidentally, they played about the same length of time in the league and their scoring numbers were similar…yearly and overall.  I saw them both when I was growing up, but as far as NBA potential, my memory of that was vague except for they were the 2 best centers in college ball.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Was really more of the idea of had they traded up a pick. Kinda a "what if scenario" yah know? Again, hindsight.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Was really more of the idea of had they traded up a pick. Kinda a "what if scenario" yah know? Again, hindsight.

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