How do you guys feel about Biyombo? I was always a fan of Biyombo, but if I had to pick the most likely lottery pick to be a bust after the draft, he would have probably haven been it. But he is playing very nicely lately. He had 9 points, 10 boards, and 6 blocks tonight. On the year he is getting 3.6 points, 4.4 boards, 1.5 blocks, and shooting 48% from the field in 16 minutes a game. I know that is not that great, but I am suprised Biyombo is even getting playing time this year. Do you guys think he can end up to be a starter in this league and a potential defensive stopper or that he will fail to progress and just be another athletic big who's a case of what if?
I think Biyombo will be a future starter in this league, if anybody can just take like 5 minutes to watch a bobcats game (which is very hard to do) Biyombo is a terror on D he flies around which I like in a athletic center. But he must work on his offensive game. He is really RAW right now but the good thing is he only 19 years old and has plenty of time to develop. I think if the Bobcats continue to lose and draft Anthony Davis that will help Biyombo a whole lot and in like 3-4 years the bobcats will be a nice team. If Biyombo can develop
He might not be a fulltime starter, but he will always have a place in the league. Ben Wallace is a career 5.9 scorer and had a great role on some great teams and played a big part in a championship run.
I agree that he will always have a place in the league, but whether or not he develops into anything but a shot changer is what we will have to wait 3-4 years for. I really hope he does not stick with the bobcats, they are unbearable. I think at the very best he could be what Ibaka is now: a defensive powerhouse at the 4 who gets a few offensive put back and lobs as means of offense. I can also see him being a DeSagana Diop type, where he never lives up to the hype, yet finds a spot on a good team who needs a defensive specialist (Diop was for Dallas in the playoffs for a few years). I think he will need to be part of a supporting cast in order to hide his glaring rawness while he develops for a few years.
Biyombo is the real deal and is going to develop into a legit game changing center. He had 7 blocks and 13 rebounds the other night. I saw him in person when the Bobcats came to Philly and what stood about most besides the fact his arms hang down to his ankles, is that he's so athletic and plays with intensity.
Did anybody see him pin JJ Reddicks floater off the top of the back board against the Magic? I never saw anybody reach that high for a block he literally had his hand at the top of the back board.
And above all else Biyombo is very intelligent and a hard worker. You guys are acting like he's not 19 years old playing in a new country and already starting and putting up solid numbers for a rookie center. So yeah he's a starter in this league to say the least.
He's also a better rebounder and pure shot blocker then Ibaka so once he develops watch out.
IDK about him.. Pair him with DMC, Bynum, or Lopez, and I love him as a Ibaka Type PF.. As a center, I am not sold on him.. He is pretty skinny and cant really hold a spot on the block.. If he can gain some weight, he could be a center but he has a long way to go..
Does everyone really think he and Ant Davis could be a successful pair in the paint??
I watched 3 bobcats games at the begining of the year and every time Biyambo barely played, but my concern is exactly the same as 8th's. Is he big enough to play center? obv time will tell, but I think I would prefer him paired with someone 6'10"+ who has a post game, face up, or can go outside and hit a J. LMA in portland would be another nice pairing. Agree again with 8th that I would not want to pair him with A. Davis because he(davis) would be an undersized center and does not have much of an offensive game outside from finishing at the rim. If what the people in this thread are saying is true (Biyambo is improving) and the bobcats win the lottery (with Davis being the unaniomous #1), I would consider trading down.
Biyombo is looking like the Bobcats' ace defender already, he can block shots with both hands, most shotblockers tend to favour their dominant hand but Biyombo uses both, to be 19(?) and to be already aware is very promising. He can rebound at a very good level already due to his long arms and anticipation. His post defense is excellent, mainly because of his strength and determination to never give up, Kemba Walker said he's a monster on defense already and i agree, it's only his rookie season and he's shown a lot of upside.
His basketball IQ is unordinary for his age, or i guess ordinary when you've got guys like Irving and Knight playing like they've been in the league for years when they've only been here for five miniues. He's been getting more vocal and he's a natural leader, he's one of those leads by example kind of guys, his actions naturally fire everyone up. Physically he'll get stronger and could possibly grow an inch or two, i see him rounding out to be about 6'10 and 245lbs in the future which will cement his place as a game changer defensively.
Then his personality, he's a hard working kid who's the first to come into practice and the last to leave, he's a genuinely nice person that is respectful. He's working very hard to improve and the Bobcats training staff are helping him a lot, the catching drills have helped, they've completely rebuilt his shot, his mechanics are more fluid now even if he's not shooting a good percentage now, he can improve due to the better foundation he can work with. Ideally, when you're rebuilding, you want high characters with high basketball IQs and talent, i believe he has those things.
His offense needs a lot of work, he's not as raw as i expected he would be but he's still pretty raw, right now, he can only score with dunks, tip-ins and the occaisional lay-up around the basket, he needs to develop legitimate post moves as he's only a threat when he's 5ft away from the basket. He probably won't ever be as dominant on offense like he will be on defense but he needs some reliable moves to be more of a participant on offense, having said that, he know his limitations and doesn't play outside himself which highlights his IQ again.
I wasn't sure on what Biyombo will become but now i really think he could be one of the best defenders in the league when he fully develops, when you're that young, to have a high basketball IQ, hardworking attitude and leadership skills, it's very tough to dismiss him completely and call him a possible bust, he's not like Sene, Biyombo is stronger mentally than Sene was. Finally, Michael Jordan isn't going to make the mistake of drafting another bust and he'll make sure Biyombo gets all the coaching and training to make sure he becomes at least a starter for their organisation.
Does anyone else think that if Utah decide to deal either Kanter or Jefferson that either would be a great pairing with Biyombo? Big Al has the body to hold position on the post, but not the mobility to protect the rim, which Biyombo has in spades. Offensively, Al would be the scorer in the post, leaving Biyombo to develop a mid-range shot and getting offensive boards. Would be a better pairing that Perkins and Ibaka in my opinion, especially if they can get Barnes in the draft to score on the perimeter.
@ Subpar ,BISMACK pre-draft measures:
Height w/o Shoes:6' 8.31"
Height w/shoes : 6' 9.5"
Weight : 245
Body Fat :4.2
I think it is safe to say he will reach 245lbs :D
and Honestly don't get the skinny thing,ok I haven't watched so much of him but this is almost identical measures of Ben Wallace
19134 is classically speaking in hyperbole. "He's a legit game changer". Lets not get ahead of ourselves, but if you are Charlotte, PLAY THIS MAN! Your team is horrendous, you have nothing to play for, the being competitve thing isn't an argument because your winning percentage is something like 15...Play Bismack and Kemba as much as possible the rest of this year to get them as much experience as possible.
"Biyombo is looking like the Bobcats' ace defender already, he can block shots with both hands, most shotblockers tend to favour their dominant hand but Biyombo uses both, to be 19(?) and to be already aware is very promising. "
The Bobcats are a worse defensive teams by the numbers with him on the floor than when he is not. With him on their roster, Charlotte is giving up 47.4 points in the paint per game, only Sacramento is worse. They are a remarkable -202 in 520 minutes when Biyombo is on the floor. When does stopping people from scoring with ease factor into someone being an "ace defender"?
By the way, Gustavo Ayon (who started and finished games over Biyombo in Spain) is having a better season. Nik Vucevic who was taken 9 slots later at the same position is infinitely better now and as a prospect going forward. Shot blockers who don't play real defense are a dime a dozen and in no way difference makers. Tack on the complete lack of offensive skills, and it is hard to look at the Bobcats draft of a 6'0 combo-guard who lacks point skills and can't shoot with the pick of Biyombo and not laugh. If any team deserves to be historically bad, it is a team that blows a draft to that degree.
But....BTPH they are going to have the immortal Anthony Davis next to him next year! So much shot blocking! Who needs real defense or offensive skill?
In the few times I've watched the Bobcats play this year, Biyombo has been active defensively. BTPH's stat appearantly shows that he doesn't do this all the time but I know what I saw. Plus he's "19" and in a new country; give the dude some time.
As far as Vucevic vs Biyombo, they are two totally different players so it kind of depends on what you are looking for in a center.
I agree entirely on the Bobcats blowing the draft last season, I thought they could have taken Brandon Knight and Alec Burks as building blocks for the future, especially given the amount of big men around in 2012 draft (theoretically).
"As far as Vucevic vs Biyombo, they are two totally different players so it kind of depends on what you are looking for in a center."
One is good and plays on both ends of the court and the other is someone who will try to block a few shots and have your offense play 4 on 5. They are both young and learning, but it isn't really a debate as to whether a team should want Nik over Bismack.
BTPH, Biyombo is their best defender, hence why i called him their ace defender, you're implying i said he was an ace defender overall.
As for the stat you bring up, i believe that is a skewed statistic, Biyombo is known for his defense, i've watched him enough times to see his impact, sometimes statistics cannot tell you everything, an example would be Andrea Bargnani, a highly skilled offensive player but the Raptors are third last in scoring and Bargnani is -27 in the plus/minus, does that mean Bargnani is suddenly not a good scorer despite averaging 23ppg?
Also, the Bobcats play more offensive players when Biyombo is on the floor in an attempt to make up for his lack of offense or hide him, this is a contirbuting factor to their weak defense, Biyombo can't be solely blamed. The Bobcats have the worst record in the league, i don't really expect a raw rookie to single handedly make this team significantly better on either end.
He isn't just a shot blocker, Biyombo can defend, his post defense is very good, he keeps in position and stays very tight on his man, his pick and roll anticipation is also excellent but right now, his biggest asset is his shot blocking ability, however, he's shown enough potential to improve, he'll be better next season. Gustovo Ayon is seven years older, of course he's going to be more productive, he's been around and is the better player overall obviously. I like Vucevic, i think he's going to be a good player, Biyombo just has more potential and that is why he was taken higher.
Biyombo has started, come off the bench, and cleaned up garbage time. He has played with every different grouping Charlotte has. It isn't as if he is just pigeon-holed to one unit and hurt by their ineptitude (which can skew those numbers one way or the other). He has been moved around, and the result has been that they are worse on both ends with him on the floor than off it. There is no evidence of him being a good defender other than by people who just want to believe he is a good defender. Also, if they were playing their best offensive players with him, then Charlotte shouldn't be scoring less with him on the floor than when he is on the bench.
Out of curiosity, how much less do the Bobcats score with Biyombo on the floor?
He's shown a lot of promise in such a short time, he's got to work extremely hard to match his potential but he looks up to the task. There's has been positive feedback about him with regards to training, the Bobcats assigned a coach to do some catching drills and he didn't complain or did any of that prima donna BS. Let's not diminish his intangibles on the floor, he's shown leadership skills, he applies a great workrate every game, maybe it doesn't always result in a win but i'd rather want a guy working hard than not, i'm sure Silas concurs.
Assuming the dude is 19, all of his problems are incredibly easy to fix with time. Look at Chandler at 19. If you have the hustle and work ethic to go with the size and athletic ability, all of which Biyombo does, you will become a good defender with good coaching. I'm unsure Silas is the right coach for that, but that's neither here nor there. As of now, Biyombo looks like he'll develop into an impactful defensive 5. Pairing him with Davis, then hiring a defensive minded coach -Casey and Thibs are gone, but I'm sure there are others, anyone care to chime in with an assistant the Cats could target- could make this an extremely mean defensive unit within 2-3 seasons.
P.S. Augistin and Kemba on one team won't work. They really should trade 1.
Biyombo has probably played as much or even more than other young big such as Kanter, Favours, Udoh, Thompson etc who are all older and/or were drafted higher or a year earlier than him. So he has been exposed to the harsh realities of the NBA and maybe forced to play more minutes than was good for him especially on such a struggling team.
But even if he is learning the hard way, Coach Silas has probably decided to give his younger guys as much experience as he can as the Bobcats are lottery bound again. Biyombo is the youngest player in the NBA and perhaps his most impressive stat is his blocking even though Charlotte are giving up a lot of points. I don't ever see him being a huge offensive threat which isn't an issue if his defence makes up for what he lacks in points and his athleticism will get him a few dunks, tip-ins etc.
He is still a project and will surely benefit if Charlotte could land say Davis to play next to him, this would give their frontcourt a couple of insane wingspans to create a great defensive platform and in Coach Silas a former All Defensive First Teamer they have a guy who can help them develop. Paul Silas may not be the greatest coach but he was a great defensive player so can surely impart his knowledge onto a couple of young bigs.
Also Biyombo didn't do a full pre-season with the Cats due to the lockout so the coaching staff will not really have had time to work on his game. Maybe even MJ the greatest player in NBA history can help Biyombo with his offence game, he'll never be a great scorer but surely someone like MJ could pass on a few pointers.
"Out of curiosity, how much less do the Bobcats score with Biyombo on the floor?"
91.46 PtsPer100Poss with him on the court
95.60 PtsPer100Poss with him off the court
112.18 OppPtsPer100Poss with him on the court
109.06 OppPtsPer100Poss with him off the court
This is not a guy who has just been cleaning up at the end of blowouts, though he has. He is not just a guy who has come off the bench, because he has started. Other than closing out close games, he has had the full spectrum of game experience with the full array of lineup combinations. A good defender with a second unit cannot necessarily replicate that with the starters or in closing time. A bad or mediocre first unit defender might find success when working against second units. You have veteran teams that don't really care every single game of the regular season. Those elements are what can skew the numbers, but it simply is not the case with how Charlotte has used Biyombo this year.
Regardless of the micro analysis, I think it's a good thing he's getting minutes this season. He's a project, he may not ever be a 10 ppg scorer in the NBA, but I think he certainly has the potential to develop into an imposing presence on the defensive end.
I'm not claiming he's the next Mutombo, but despite his flaws, he's showing promise.
Look, the Cats are going to be terrible either way. Developing a NINETEEN year old is going to take patience. Why not do so while you're sucking anyway?
I simply cannot agree BTPH, there isn't much of a difference, we're talking about five points on offense and three on defense, on a team that has the worst record in the league. If it was more on one or the either or even both substantially, i would've been more willing to agree with your reasoning.
"Regardless of the micro analysis, I think it's a good thing he's getting minutes this season. He's a project, he may not ever be a 10 ppg scorer in the NBA, but I think he certainly has the potential to develop into an imposing presence on the defensive end."
So you are hoping a top 7 pick could one day develop into a one-sided player. Have fun with that. I can find those guys in the 2nd round, undrafted free agents, D-League, players in Europe, and all those failed one-sided lottery picks who are no longer in their lottery scale deals.
"I simply cannot agree BTPH, there isn't much of a difference, we're talking about five points on offense and three on defense, on a team that has the worst record in the league. If it was more on one or the either or even both substantially, i would've been more willing to agree with your reasoning."
You called him the Bobcats best defender and he simply is not. You are basing your belief that he is on nothing but you wanting to see him succeed. That is fine, but it does not make it so. You like that he blocks shots. That is fine, but he doesn't actually stop people from getting into the paint and scoring all the time. All this nonsense about him being smart and hard working doesn't play out in games. I have seen them play and seen the numbers. It is not the case. The Pacers ran out to a 16-2 lead by just going right to the hoop. They took out Biyombo and put in Diop, and all of a sudden there was resistance for their attack. They played against the Bulls and Biyombo had a complete JaVale McGee sequence where in the span of a mintue he goaltended a shot, committed defensive 3-seconds, and then tried to steal a rebound from a teammate (who was the only other guy going for the miss) only to pop it out to C.J. Watson. His highlight play for the season is blocking Chris Bosh only to see him score 1 second later. Just don't lie about him and where he is in his development. It is the same garbage that gets thrown out about every young shot blocker.
DeSagana Diop plays on that same awful Bobcats team. He like all the Bobcat centers have been streamed through different roles in different stages of games. The results are that the team is considerably better defensively with him on the floor. Do I want DeSagana Diop on the floor? No, but that doesn't mean he isn't a better defensive player. For what he brings, D.J. White probably merits playing 30-35 minutes per for that team if they wanted to compete to win every night. Their rotation should probably be Augustin, Henderson, Brown, White, Diaw, Walker, Williams, and then either Slava Mullens, Diop, or Biyombo for backup 5 minutes. Tyrus Thomas and Corey Maggette arrived thinking there wasn't going to be a season, and are worth wrotong off for the year. Diaw is probably carrying 300-320 lbs, but for whatever reason he is still functional. I don't want Diop out there with a team that can't score, but if I cared about winning the game I don't want Biyombo out there either. You don't build winning teams around limited players, and the Bobcats have nothing but limited players. Their best players are an out of shape Diaw, a tiny DJ Augustin, a probable career backup in DJ White, and an oft-injured Gerald Henderson. I don't think it should be bothersome that they aren't leaning heavily on those players and rushing them back from injuries, but just because they are trotting out Kemba and Biyombo to get big minutes it doesn't make them good or have any impact on them getting better. They are a big part of the reason the Bobcats are as bad as they are. Those giant limited shot blockers on the Wizards are a big part of the reason Washington stinks too. John Wall's inability to shoot keeps him from being the elite player he should be. Kemba Walker doesn't have near that upside, but his lack of a shot really hurts seeing as how he was a lottery pick and face of rebuilding.
I never said he was worthy of his draft pick, just that he could develop into a good defensive player. I'm not particualry passionate on Bismack Biyombo as a prospect, just calling what I see half way into his rookie year.
He's not Mutombo, but he's not Roy Rodgers either.
LOL. The main post stated 4-points 4-rebounds and 1.5-bpg is good. 48% from the field for the guy on the eam who probally has taken 5 jumpshots all year is good? Not only that but he is putting up these stats on byfar the worst team in the NBA. He cmpetes for minutes with Byron Mullens and Desegna Diop. Henderson leads the team in minutes per game with 33. he definitely has upside based on his physicality and explosiveness alone but he has no clue what the hell he is doing.Biyambo really believes he is out there to "block" shots when he is out there to stop opposing bigs, help o the weak side defensively, be a physical presence, get his team extra possessions and do the dirty work noone wants to do. Not hop around blocking shots.