[trelos6Participant]

 So I was reading an article on Bleacher Report about who has the best rebuild in the Atlantic Conference, Knicks, Sixers or Celtics.

I think when analysing a rebuild, you have to look at total time required as well as how long the team will contend.  All three teams seem to be set for a long period of contending from around 2018-2024, and they will all get there via a different route.

SIGNING FREE AGENTS ROUTE:

New York are probably the closest to contending (suprising considering how badly they suck right now).  This is mainly due to big salaries coming off contract (Amare, Bargnani), and the fact they already have a star in Melo.  Also, The Jackson factor is huge.  Players want to play for Jackson, because he has a proven history of winning.  By the 2017/18 season, Knicks will have 3 players under contract, Melo, Hardaway Jr and their likely #1 pick from this years draft, Jahlil Okafor.  Also, by being in New York, they can attract free agents second only to the Lakers.  Depending on how the Knicks can fill out their roster, they could be a force to be reckoned with by 2018.  Hardaway Jr is a nice SG, and Okafor looks to have a great offensive game.  If Jackson does his Jackson things, Knicks should be trotting out a solid team.

TRADE ROUTE:

Celtics are in surprisingly good shape considering they just lost their two best players in Rondo and Green.  They have a solid young core of role players in Smart, Bradley, Young, Sullinger and Olynyk.  However, don’t expect any of these players to still be on the roster in 2018!  Ainge has stocked up on so many draft picks over the next few years, and he will try to expedite the rebuild by packaging some picks and young players for proven talent.  Ainge brought together the BIG 3, and they contended for 5 years.  When he is looking for the BIG 3 2.0, he will target players who are a bit younger, so they can contend for a longer time period.

DRAFT ROUTE:

Following in the footsteps of the OKC Thunder, the Sixers will be drafting most of their team.  Imagine a team in 2018 with Embiid, Noel, Saric, Simmons, Johnson, and MCW.  They will take the longest to develop, but after bottoming out for a few more years, they will have a surplus of young talent.  As they grow together and increase their win count, I don’t see too many players leaving.  Hinkie has the Harden situation as his guide, and knows not to make the mistake of letting a player like that go.  All the Sixers need is for several of their picks to become All-Stars, and a few to become solid role players, and they should be able to keep them all with the rise in the salary cap.

 

It will be intersting to see in the coming years which is the best method for a rebuild.  I believe we will see the three teams all contending in 2020, and the Atlantic division will be extremely strong!

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 76ers are far ahead of the Celtics, and the Knicks haven’t started the rebuild yet.

Save money and use minor leaguers for a few years and get a lot of high picks, the 76ers should be a force in the NBA soon.  They will be huge in the paint, as long as their young bigs stay healthy, and have a big point guard too.  A few shooters to spread the floor, and they have more high draft picks to get them with, and the 76ers could be a contender.  The 76ers started the rebuild a lot earlier and went at it with total effort so they have the best rebuild, so far.

The Celtics have their future picks and a few future Nets picks, but they need one or two of those to be in the top 3 of a draft.  Young, Olynyk, Zeller, some of their important pieces but a giant to defend and score in the paint and a few other needs have to be addressed.  They will have some money for a free agent this offseason.  It doesn’t make sense to say that none of the young Celtics will be on the roster in a few years, two or three of the current players could be starters then.

The Knicks, they will have a very high pick this year and some spending money and also Carmelo and his bad knees and big contract.  The year after, Denver gets the New York first rounder with a swap option.  If the Knicks move Calderon, they could have money to sign two big superstars and can also add a center in the draft.  But the Knicks have been missing out on free agents, and the Lakers have the money to get them now so Phil could be competing with the Lakers.

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 76ers are far ahead of the Celtics, and the Knicks haven’t started the rebuild yet.

Save money and use minor leaguers for a few years and get a lot of high picks, the 76ers should be a force in the NBA soon.  They will be huge in the paint, as long as their young bigs stay healthy, and have a big point guard too.  A few shooters to spread the floor, and they have more high draft picks to get them with, and the 76ers could be a contender.  The 76ers started the rebuild a lot earlier and went at it with total effort so they have the best rebuild, so far.

The Celtics have their future picks and a few future Nets picks, but they need one or two of those to be in the top 3 of a draft.  Young, Olynyk, Zeller, some of their important pieces but a giant to defend and score in the paint and a few other needs have to be addressed.  They will have some money for a free agent this offseason.  It doesn’t make sense to say that none of the young Celtics will be on the roster in a few years, two or three of the current players could be starters then.

The Knicks, they will have a very high pick this year and some spending money and also Carmelo and his bad knees and big contract.  The year after, Denver gets the New York first rounder with a swap option.  If the Knicks move Calderon, they could have money to sign two big superstars and can also add a center in the draft.  But the Knicks have been missing out on free agents, and the Lakers have the money to get them now so Phil could be competing with the Lakers.

 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

I’m trying not to be a homer because I’m a Celtics fan, but how are the 76ers ahead of them? I like some of the pieces on the 76ers roster, but there are a lot of questions there. 

Can MCW be a top 20 point guard in the NBA? Maybe, but he is struggling to shoot outside and finish inside. Plus, he is kinda’ old for a second year player (23). 

I’ll probably get some negs here, but I’m not sure Wroten is as good as people think. He is only shooting 40% and 26% for FG and 3FG. He is a bit of a ball hog and he is turning the ball over alot at 3.8 topg. I know that a lot of the offense runs through him, so he has to create, but there are plenty of legitimate concerns about his ability to be a starter in the NBA. 

Joel Embiid has not played one NBA game. While, I think he will be very good if he can stay healthy, let’s not crown him a great piece until we can see him on the court consistently. 

We haven’t seen Saric play either. Even though I like him as a prospect too, there are a lot of questions about how his game might translate to the NBA. "A bird in the hand are worth two in the bush."

I like Noel as a player. i think he is a unique talent, but it seems kinda’ obvious that he is probably only going to be a rim-protector and pick-and-roll finisher. His health can be somewhat of a concern too. 

I like the Sixers core. I think they are heading the right direction, but to say unequivocally that they are further along in the rebuild process than the Celtics seems unreasonable. 

The Celtics have two young players that have proved to have staying power in the NBA (Sullinger and Olynyk) with the potential to be starters. Smart is 3 years younger than MCW and already seems to have figured out how to shoot from distance (35% from three on the year). I don’t think I’ve seen enough to say that he will be a top 20 point guard in the NBA, but the potential is there, especially with Stevens as his coach. 

I think Crowder can be an excellent glue-guy and possibly a starter. Zeller is playing really good basketball and looks like a low-end starting center in the NBA. Avery Bradley is one of the elite on-ball defenders in the NBA. James Young is a very interesting prospect as an NBA two-guard. 

On top of that, players 5-11 on the Celtics roster are actually, you know, NBA players, and not d-leaguers. They have better trade value and most of them are on excellent value contracts. 

It’s true that the Celtics don’t have anyone on their roster with the potential upside of Joel Embiid, but the have just as much cap flexibility and way more draft picks over the next few years.Also, there has been a lot of concern that the young players in Philly are learning bad habits as they develop. I don’t think that is happening in Boston. 

I like how the rebuild process is going in both places. If both teams are lucky, it might only be 2-3 years before they are in the playoffs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[treytalkssports.comParticipant]

I’m trying not to be a homer because I’m a Celtics fan, but how are the 76ers ahead of them? I like some of the pieces on the 76ers roster, but there are a lot of questions there. 

Can MCW be a top 20 point guard in the NBA? Maybe, but he is struggling to shoot outside and finish inside. Plus, he is kinda’ old for a second year player (23). 

I’ll probably get some negs here, but I’m not sure Wroten is as good as people think. He is only shooting 40% and 26% for FG and 3FG. He is a bit of a ball hog and he is turning the ball over alot at 3.8 topg. I know that a lot of the offense runs through him, so he has to create, but there are plenty of legitimate concerns about his ability to be a starter in the NBA. 

Joel Embiid has not played one NBA game. While, I think he will be very good if he can stay healthy, let’s not crown him a great piece until we can see him on the court consistently. 

We haven’t seen Saric play either. Even though I like him as a prospect too, there are a lot of questions about how his game might translate to the NBA. "A bird in the hand are worth two in the bush."

I like Noel as a player. i think he is a unique talent, but it seems kinda’ obvious that he is probably only going to be a rim-protector and pick-and-roll finisher. His health can be somewhat of a concern too. 

I like the Sixers core. I think they are heading the right direction, but to say unequivocally that they are further along in the rebuild process than the Celtics seems unreasonable. 

The Celtics have two young players that have proved to have staying power in the NBA (Sullinger and Olynyk) with the potential to be starters. Smart is 3 years younger than MCW and already seems to have figured out how to shoot from distance (35% from three on the year). I don’t think I’ve seen enough to say that he will be a top 20 point guard in the NBA, but the potential is there, especially with Stevens as his coach. 

I think Crowder can be an excellent glue-guy and possibly a starter. Zeller is playing really good basketball and looks like a low-end starting center in the NBA. Avery Bradley is one of the elite on-ball defenders in the NBA. James Young is a very interesting prospect as an NBA two-guard. 

On top of that, players 5-11 on the Celtics roster are actually, you know, NBA players, and not d-leaguers. They have better trade value and most of them are on excellent value contracts. 

It’s true that the Celtics don’t have anyone on their roster with the potential upside of Joel Embiid, but the have just as much cap flexibility and way more draft picks over the next few years.Also, there has been a lot of concern that the young players in Philly are learning bad habits as they develop. I don’t think that is happening in Boston. 

I like how the rebuild process is going in both places. If both teams are lucky, it might only be 2-3 years before they are in the playoffs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[omphalosParticipant]

THE most important thing in a rebuild is having a potential star to build around, and failing that, a young big to anchor your D.

The Celtics have none of those, the Sixers have Embiid, who offers both.

Sixers are definitely ahead because Ainge has whiffed a few draft picks, particularly Olynyk.

If Ainge had taken Giannis we would have been golden, but as it stands we just wasted a lottery pick on a guy who will never defend well enough to be a key player in a title team.

With Smart again, should have taken Lavine IMO, much higher upside and is no less a PG than Smart really.

Plus, can shoot.

Only pick he nailed was James Young, although Sullinger was good value.

[omphalosParticipant]

THE most important thing in a rebuild is having a potential star to build around, and failing that, a young big to anchor your D.

The Celtics have none of those, the Sixers have Embiid, who offers both.

Sixers are definitely ahead because Ainge has whiffed a few draft picks, particularly Olynyk.

If Ainge had taken Giannis we would have been golden, but as it stands we just wasted a lottery pick on a guy who will never defend well enough to be a key player in a title team.

With Smart again, should have taken Lavine IMO, much higher upside and is no less a PG than Smart really.

Plus, can shoot.

Only pick he nailed was James Young, although Sullinger was good value.

[r377Participant]

I think the Celtics have the edge just because Danny Ainge actually knows what he is doing.

NY have the massive Melonoma contract and the Sixers, well they just keep getting draft picks and more draft picks. I also read a great article saying how nobody wants to play for the sixers. Granger and ak47 both refused to play for them. Having no veterans and practicing with d-league standard players along with a losing mentality isn’t great for the young sixers. (look at cory joseph – not good in college, gets drafted higher than we all think but then has the golden ticket playing for a great coach and organization, plus practicing and getting mentored from tony parker and mills) Who is there for wroten and mcw to look up to and learn from ?

Ny has no idea about selecting the right players – jr smith, bargnani, amare, now they are stuck with the 15mill over 2 yrs contract of calderon not to mention the huge melo contract that will cripple them thru to the 18-19 season with a 35yo cancer earning $28mill in his last season.

No free agents would want to play in Ny or phillie. The celtics have the history and won a championship recently with Ainge in control.

[r377Participant]

I think the Celtics have the edge just because Danny Ainge actually knows what he is doing.

NY have the massive Melonoma contract and the Sixers, well they just keep getting draft picks and more draft picks. I also read a great article saying how nobody wants to play for the sixers. Granger and ak47 both refused to play for them. Having no veterans and practicing with d-league standard players along with a losing mentality isn’t great for the young sixers. (look at cory joseph – not good in college, gets drafted higher than we all think but then has the golden ticket playing for a great coach and organization, plus practicing and getting mentored from tony parker and mills) Who is there for wroten and mcw to look up to and learn from ?

Ny has no idea about selecting the right players – jr smith, bargnani, amare, now they are stuck with the 15mill over 2 yrs contract of calderon not to mention the huge melo contract that will cripple them thru to the 18-19 season with a 35yo cancer earning $28mill in his last season.

No free agents would want to play in Ny or phillie. The celtics have the history and won a championship recently with Ainge in control.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Danny Ainge has indeed proven himself, surely, but some of decisions lately have left me scratching my head. He held on to Rondo way too long and for god knows what reason, and then basically pulled a reverse McHale to help his buddy Carlisle out and got barely anything in return for him. He should have pulled the trigger on that McLemore, Williams and a 1st rounder offer from the Kings last year. He also commented on how the Greek Freak reminded him of HOF Scottie Pippen but opted for career back up, rim protecting Kelly Olynyk. Also, Boston is not the FA destination you may see it as. It’s cold and the city is pretty racist.

Philly is in the best position I think. MCW and Noel still developing and looking good. McDaniels looks promising, if they keep him. Embiid is the unknown and Saric is balling right now but he’s an unknown commodity too. I have them taking Mudiay and Levert in the upcoming draft, plus they have multiple picks in 2016 as well. I would envy that bevy of assets. I think that “losing culture” stuff is non-sense and is covered at length here:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-ignored-evolution-of-the-sixers/

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Danny Ainge has indeed proven himself, surely, but some of decisions lately have left me scratching my head. He held on to Rondo way too long and for god knows what reason, and then basically pulled a reverse McHale to help his buddy Carlisle out and got barely anything in return for him. He should have pulled the trigger on that McLemore, Williams and a 1st rounder offer from the Kings last year. He also commented on how the Greek Freak reminded him of HOF Scottie Pippen but opted for career back up, rim protecting Kelly Olynyk. Also, Boston is not the FA destination you may see it as. It’s cold and the city is pretty racist.

Philly is in the best position I think. MCW and Noel still developing and looking good. McDaniels looks promising, if they keep him. Embiid is the unknown and Saric is balling right now but he’s an unknown commodity too. I have them taking Mudiay and Levert in the upcoming draft, plus they have multiple picks in 2016 as well. I would envy that bevy of assets. I think that “losing culture” stuff is non-sense and is covered at length here:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-ignored-evolution-of-the-sixers/

[doubledribblerParticipant]

I think all of those rebuilds suck…

76ers collect picks and try to trade every player that does anything for more picks. They are allergic to having veterans on the team and their young guys are developing a lot of bad habits. Plus all this losing can’t be good mentally.

I’m not sure any big time players want to go to NY  anymore and they don’t have any assets outside of their best player to trade. The same guy that has a no trade clause. I have no faith in Fisher. Just a hunch, but again I don’t like him for the stuff he pulled in Utah and Dallas.

Celtics have a big collection of guys that look like good role players, which seems like a recipe for being in the middle of the heap. Rondo was traded way too late and they got next to nothing for a guy they seemed iffy on for awhile and that probably should have been shipped out right after KG and Pierce. Ainge doesn’t have a great record drafting.

I have the most faith in the Celtics plan because Ainge is going all out to make good deals with his buddies, so I think they will return the favor at some point. I like their coach a lot and think they have some good players. The thing for all of these teams is that at some point you need at least a star to emerge and I don’t think they have one on the roster. You get a star and there is always the chance of drafting or trading for another. When they won they had Pierce, lucked in to Rondo and with all those assets they were able to turn them into KG and Allen.

 

  

[doubledribblerParticipant]

I think all of those rebuilds suck…

76ers collect picks and try to trade every player that does anything for more picks. They are allergic to having veterans on the team and their young guys are developing a lot of bad habits. Plus all this losing can’t be good mentally.

I’m not sure any big time players want to go to NY  anymore and they don’t have any assets outside of their best player to trade. The same guy that has a no trade clause. I have no faith in Fisher. Just a hunch, but again I don’t like him for the stuff he pulled in Utah and Dallas.

Celtics have a big collection of guys that look like good role players, which seems like a recipe for being in the middle of the heap. Rondo was traded way too late and they got next to nothing for a guy they seemed iffy on for awhile and that probably should have been shipped out right after KG and Pierce. Ainge doesn’t have a great record drafting.

I have the most faith in the Celtics plan because Ainge is going all out to make good deals with his buddies, so I think they will return the favor at some point. I like their coach a lot and think they have some good players. The thing for all of these teams is that at some point you need at least a star to emerge and I don’t think they have one on the roster. You get a star and there is always the chance of drafting or trading for another. When they won they had Pierce, lucked in to Rondo and with all those assets they were able to turn them into KG and Allen.

 

  

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I want to see who wins the draft this year.  Get the best guy out of this draft and the rebuild looks good.

Strike out, and well, back to the drawing board and the lottery.

This past year’s draft might have only had one GUY — Andrew Wiggins.  

Superstars don’t exactly crawl up and down every draft — or even ANY draft.

With Philly, can they even sign all these guys?  Right now, they would have to resign MCW, Noel, Embiid, and Saric, plus whoever they get in the next two drafts.  Maybe Tony Wroten is a long time keeper too.  Then that KJ McDaniels guy.  Those contracts will add up in a few years.  And, is there a superstar there so far?  Maybe not even an all-star.

They can’t keep everybody and they still need to sign veterans.

Look at the Memphis Grizzlies over the past decade during a rebuild.  Now, obviously we couldn’t keep everybody and we didn’t.  But, look at the names: Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, OJ Mayo, and DeMarre Carroll.  Struck out with Hasheem Thabeet at two, but he is still 7’2 or whatever.  We also had Greivous Vasquez.  You can say, WOW, what if they had kept all those guys?  We couldn’t have afforded it.  Plus, we had to sign Z Bo and Tony Allen.  Couldn’t wait until a bunch of young guys got experience — and had to sign a second deal.  You can’t afford to do that.  Granted, I don’t think all these guys played together.  But, still, that is a heck of a lot of talent that Memphis ended up with on draft night. Even a guy like Darrell Arthur was very serviceable before multiple injuries.  

Sometime soon, Philly will have to close ranks around a new "core" then trade some of those second tier prospects for other assets, then sign veterans.

You just can’t PAY 7 or 8 guys.  You can pay 3 or 4 guys then work around that.

For the Knicks, they have all the DOWNSIDE of the other big market teams, without any of the upside. If you win, you were supposed to.  If you lose, you are a loser.  NYC is cold.  NYC is old.  The Knicks haven’t won a title in over 40 years.  It hasn’t made the Finals since 1999.  The Front Office has been historically bad.  They now have Phil Jackson, but is The Triangle past its prime?  Are they basically running an offense with the shelf life of the weave?  … get guys open for 12 foot set shots?  Granny style free throws.  Full wind-up hook shots by 6’7 Polish power forwards?  There are two NBA’s.  Pre-2011 NBA, and 2011-Now NBA.  2011 Mavs KILLED the Coach Phil Lakers.  The Grizz beat the 2011 Spurs who then went on to learn from their defeat.  The SPURS learned from the Great 2011 NBA Sea Change.  Did Phil?  Did the Triangle?  Can those two entities adapt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

I want to see who wins the draft this year.  Get the best guy out of this draft and the rebuild looks good.

Strike out, and well, back to the drawing board and the lottery.

This past year’s draft might have only had one GUY — Andrew Wiggins.  

Superstars don’t exactly crawl up and down every draft — or even ANY draft.

With Philly, can they even sign all these guys?  Right now, they would have to resign MCW, Noel, Embiid, and Saric, plus whoever they get in the next two drafts.  Maybe Tony Wroten is a long time keeper too.  Then that KJ McDaniels guy.  Those contracts will add up in a few years.  And, is there a superstar there so far?  Maybe not even an all-star.

They can’t keep everybody and they still need to sign veterans.

Look at the Memphis Grizzlies over the past decade during a rebuild.  Now, obviously we couldn’t keep everybody and we didn’t.  But, look at the names: Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, OJ Mayo, and DeMarre Carroll.  Struck out with Hasheem Thabeet at two, but he is still 7’2 or whatever.  We also had Greivous Vasquez.  You can say, WOW, what if they had kept all those guys?  We couldn’t have afforded it.  Plus, we had to sign Z Bo and Tony Allen.  Couldn’t wait until a bunch of young guys got experience — and had to sign a second deal.  You can’t afford to do that.  Granted, I don’t think all these guys played together.  But, still, that is a heck of a lot of talent that Memphis ended up with on draft night. Even a guy like Darrell Arthur was very serviceable before multiple injuries.  

Sometime soon, Philly will have to close ranks around a new "core" then trade some of those second tier prospects for other assets, then sign veterans.

You just can’t PAY 7 or 8 guys.  You can pay 3 or 4 guys then work around that.

For the Knicks, they have all the DOWNSIDE of the other big market teams, without any of the upside. If you win, you were supposed to.  If you lose, you are a loser.  NYC is cold.  NYC is old.  The Knicks haven’t won a title in over 40 years.  It hasn’t made the Finals since 1999.  The Front Office has been historically bad.  They now have Phil Jackson, but is The Triangle past its prime?  Are they basically running an offense with the shelf life of the weave?  … get guys open for 12 foot set shots?  Granny style free throws.  Full wind-up hook shots by 6’7 Polish power forwards?  There are two NBA’s.  Pre-2011 NBA, and 2011-Now NBA.  2011 Mavs KILLED the Coach Phil Lakers.  The Grizz beat the 2011 Spurs who then went on to learn from their defeat.  The SPURS learned from the Great 2011 NBA Sea Change.  Did Phil?  Did the Triangle?  Can those two entities adapt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[prophetmeirParticipant]

If I had a choice I think the Knicks have the best rebuild, they have ISO scorer in MELO will be gettin Okafur or Emmanual. Still play at Madison Square Garden which is still the biggest stage in basketball. I have faith in Danny but everyone putting faith in Kelly and Sully are mistaken. but 11 first round picks is very intringing

[prophetmeirParticipant]

If I had a choice I think the Knicks have the best rebuild, they have ISO scorer in MELO will be gettin Okafur or Emmanual. Still play at Madison Square Garden which is still the biggest stage in basketball. I have faith in Danny but everyone putting faith in Kelly and Sully are mistaken. but 11 first round picks is very intringing

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I know its off topic but I really like the way the magic are rebuilding. Oladipo has borderline superstar potential imo and vucevic should be one of the top offensive centers in the league for awhile. Tobias Harris is a solid wing scorer, although I believe that he’s a fa this summer so he might not be there long term. Still, when you throw in Payton and Gordon, 2 players with a ton of potential that’s a pretty good core to build around. Throw in a few more peices, ideally a knock down perimeter shooter and better rim protector, and you have a team that could be set up to contend for a long time.

Then again, it is Orlando so who knows?

 

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 I know its off topic but I really like the way the magic are rebuilding. Oladipo has borderline superstar potential imo and vucevic should be one of the top offensive centers in the league for awhile. Tobias Harris is a solid wing scorer, although I believe that he’s a fa this summer so he might not be there long term. Still, when you throw in Payton and Gordon, 2 players with a ton of potential that’s a pretty good core to build around. Throw in a few more peices, ideally a knock down perimeter shooter and better rim protector, and you have a team that could be set up to contend for a long time.

Then again, it is Orlando so who knows?

 

 

 

[Author]

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