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Basketball and Race

knicksfan7
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Basketball and Race

I have decided to make a thread about this so other threads don't lead to this. Personally, I think we make basketball much more race related than it is. When posters do go into race they are not looking at the big picture. First of all, the reason there are less white players in the NBA has nothing to do with lack of skill or abilities. Same goes for a large amount of black players in the NBA has nothing to do with being more skilled or have better abilities than other races and ethnicity's. Basketball out of all the sports in the world (or at least the popular ones) is the cheapest sport to play. You don't need cleats, you don't need special equipment (bats, sticks, pads), nor do you need a specialized setting (ice rinks, baseball diamond). All you need to be able to play basketball is to be near a park that has hoops. While white people are the highest amount in #'s that are in poverty, african-americans are disproportionately the poorest. When it comes to playing sports basketball is the most accessible as well as cheapest. It is not very likely you will see black people playing golf because of the amount it costs to buy clubs as well as to play on a course as well as be registered to a country club. The same can apply for sports like tennis, lacrosse, baseball, and ice hockey because the amount of equipment necessary to play is expensive. Also, young african-americans can relate to basketball players more so than players in any other professional sport on the basis of race. For some, that can motivate them to continue playing the sport when a sport like baseball or hockey may not interest them due to lack of people of the same race. My point to all this is that ability has nothing to do with this issue it is about taking up a sport at a young age and the reasons for it.

If you think I am racist because of this post, well I can't help you. I don't care if you think I am a racist because I know I am not as well as the people who are closest to me. That's all, ready to hear some good input.


mess.eee
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Good point.

Good point.

delfam
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I agree, great post.

I agree, great post.

knicksfan7
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Delfam, I hope you're

Delfam, I hope you're referring to my post.

delfam
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I agree with athleticism, but

I agree with athleticism, but NBA coaches are reluctant to use zone defenses which I think hurt white players. Because there not as athletic their skills have to be really good, but with the man to man defense it is hard for them to cover opposing players. Not sure why the zone isn't used more, but if it was I think white players would be more productive.

Edit: i was referring to your post

knicksfan7
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Okay. Though this has nothing

Okay. Though this has nothing to do with the NBA. Rather the sociological aspects of sports. Rather white athletes focus on other sports than basketball because a lot are raised that they have no chance and that it is a black man's game.

MagikKnick
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Your definetly right.

Your definetly right. Basketball is byfar the most accessible sport, all you need is a basketball and a hoop. And its also the most relateable sport as far as race goes, and I can be proof to that matter, I'm black and always found myself to gravitate to basketball above every other sport..

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Agree, the reason why there

Agree, the reason why there are less white folks playing basketball
is just, Fewer white kids try out for basketball
Race has NOTHING to do with how good you are
On my junior high team, out of 24 players in the A and B teams, there were 2 white players
The Only two that Tried Out

MagikKnick
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Wow, I mean I don't agree

Wow, I mean I don't agree that black people are natural better athletes...
I mean, yeah, it tends to be evident in popular sports, but I doubt there is a gene that only blacks can receive that makes them run faster and jump higher

knicksfan7
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Magikknick, you don't even

Magikknick, you don't even need a basketball (you yourself that is). I am sure you can walk to your local park and get in a game where there is already a ball.

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I feel that baseball is also

I feel that baseball is also easily accessible too. Basketball is more popular than baseball amongst Africa-Americans, but I feel that baseball could have as much of a following and more black people started playing. But interested has dwindled for whatever reason. Baseball pays more, usually requires less athleticism (but more hand-eye coordination) and usually has less wear and tear on the body, so I'm not sure why more black guys don't play it.

delfam
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Baseball is more skilled base

Baseball is more skilled base than basketball, you can be good at basketball with minimal skill if you have great athleticism. Athleticism does nothing for you in baseball.

knicksfan7
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Equipment for baseball is

Equipment for baseball is expensive. You need Cleats that can be as much as $100, a bat that is a couple hundred dollars, a glove that can be close to $100, a batting helmet is about $30, it adds up. Realistically for basketball you need a ball and a pair of sneakers that is no more than $200.

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You don't need cleats or

You don't need cleats or helmets if you're practicing or preparing to play organized baseball. Or even to play for a school. I played varsity baseball my 11th grade year, and the team supplied gloves and bats for all the players, and dues (which you'll have to pay no matter what sport you play) bought cleats for the team. I have a bat, a glove, and about 5 baseballs in my garage right now, and all of that combined didn't cost more than about $125.

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I agree with you, but it

I agree with you, but it still doesn't answer the question to why the NBA is mostly black.

Basketball is cheap to play... Then why aren't more white people in the NBA? They have the same availability, opportunity and affordability that young black kids do.

delfam
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I think they're trying to say

I think they're trying to say whites have more opportunities, like with golf and tennis, that some blacks do not because financial issues.

IndianaBasketball
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I also think the price of

I also think the price of playing basketball is more than people realize.

Training sessions, camps, exposure camps, etc aren't cheap. It costs more than just a pair of basketball shoes and a basketball.

Look up how much it costs to train with St. Vincent's Sports Performance, the Champions Academy or 100% Hoops. It's not cheap at all.

And AAU isn't cheap either. You have to pay entry fees, traveling fees, etc. I remember doing fundraisers, working camps, doing car washes, etc to earn that money.

delfam
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I agree stuff like AAU is

I agree stuff like AAU is expensive, but you don't need that to be good, you can go through public school which is free and make a name for your self. You don't have to go to private schools or training camps to make a college team, it helps but it isn't necessary.

knicksfan7
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Tezo great points. I didn't

Tezo great points. I didn't think about that. Though, the reason for less whites in the NBA I think has to do more so with the perception at a young age by people who have a big influence on kids that blacks are better at the game. If they don't believe it then they can go watch an NBA game and see 7 or 8 of the 10 guys black, and the rest either foreign or white. The white kid then feels out of place.

Sports have become expensive, but basketball in cost will never surpass something like golf. Of course there are all of those training sessions and what not as well as AAU ball that cost money, a lot. Not trying to put your statements down, but the training sessions can be done on your own w/o having to train, just takes discipline.

Delfam AAU ball has turned into a must where college coaches look at AAU ball as more important than HS ball b/c the competition is greater.

delfam
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I agree AAU is more important

I agree AAU is more important than high school but I personally hate AAU, from my experience all AAU is is running up and down the court and playing 1 on 1 basketball and that's why I hate it. High School is more team oriented and I feel like you get a better feel of how they player plays in high school rather than AAU.

IndianaBasketball
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@delfam You don't need to

@delfam

You don't need to attend camps, training sessions, etc to be good at basketball, but you do if you want to be successful at a major school and make it to the NBA or overseas. At that point, just practicing by yourself in the gym isn't enough. You need specific training. For example... I attended 100% Hoops for years. It focuses on your core strength, first step explosion, secondary/third moves, etc. You can see the difference between players who attend training and those who don't.

OrangeJuiceJones
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Nowadays, it's almost

Nowadays, it's almost impossible to get a D-1 scholarship without playing at one of the big-name camps or for an A.A.U team. There are just too many kids out there. Rodney Carney wasn't ranked when he came out of high school because he didn't play A.A.U. Even John Wall had to go to the "Reebok Breakout" camp to get his name on the map.

knicksfan7
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Tezo, out of curiosity these

Tezo, out of curiosity these training sessions. How much do they cost, is it a plan or hourly. I have done training in other sports and know a little bit about prices and what not.

knicksfan7
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OJJ, I wouldn't say it is

OJJ, I wouldn't say it is almost impossible because if you do well in High School there is a coach out there that would be willing to take a risk on a guy, mid to low major we're talking. No High Major coach would even think to offer a kid a scholarship if they did not play AAU. Though, one guy who never played High school or AAU (I think) was Steve Francis, but he had to go the JUCO route.

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I think a lot of the

I think a lot of the socioeconomic reasons knicksfan7 stated are valid in why there are more black athletes in basketball, but I really don't think that as a mean african american people (not just atheltes) are more atheltic than white americans (not just athletes ). There is the arguement that where is a white equivalent to Lebron James, and well there is but he doesn't play basketball. Brian Urlacher is 6'5'' 258 lbs ran a 4.4 40 and repped 225 27 times and had a 38'' vertical coming out of college. Yes, there are amazing athletes in the NFL that are black, but there are plenty of equally athletic white athletes. I don't want this post to come off pro white, because that isn't my intent, I just believe that the human race as a whole, from a genetic standpoint is so so so similar if you tested every white, black, asian, american indian, and every other race in the world the results would be extremely similar.

IndianaBasketball
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The prices are based on how

The prices are based on how many sessions you attend. They're broken down into individual training sessions, packages, yearly memberships, etc.

I remember it used to cost like $500 for like 18 sessions with the Champions Academy. $225 for 8 sessions.

Here are a list of players that trained with the Champions Academy:

Greg Oden
Mike Conley Jr.
Carl Landry
Wayne Simien
Jarret Jack
Mario Chalmers
Danny Granger
Daequan Cook
Kareem Rush
Rodney Carney
Romain Sato
James Singleton
Kory Barnett
Luke Zeller
Eric Gordon
Mike Green
Gordon Hayward
Matt Howard
Miles Plumlee

That's how I've gotten to see a lot of the players I talk about. At these training sessions.

knicksfan7
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Yes that is absolutely right,

Yes that is absolutely right, JoeWolf1. Your race has nothing to do with your skill in a sport because skill has to be acquired and learned. Sure some people are more athletic than others, but that only makes it easier to pick up the sport. I am sure there are certain things we pick up faster than others, but that has nothing to do with our race. I did not know that about Brian Urlacher. Very interesting I must say.

knicksfan7
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$500 for 18 sessions. If

$500 for 18 sessions. If these are hour long sessions that is an amazing deal. In New York training sessions for an hour can be anywhere from $60 to $100, maybe even more.

OrangeJuiceJones
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Yeah, that's what I meant,

Yeah, that's what I meant, getting an offer from a high-major school. But the scenery is shifting more and more towards A.A.U. basketball for mid-major schools. Regular high school ball may be more team-oriented and organized, but coaches like to evaluate their talent at camps and A.A.U tournaments now.

You're right, Steve Francis never played high school/A.A.U ball. Here's a pretty good explanation of what happened during his high school/college years.

IndianaBasketball
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Individual training sessions

Individual training sessions are $150 per hour... And that's off of a brochure I grabbed almost two years ago.

knicksfan7
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OJJ, congrats on post #1400.

OJJ, congrats on post #1400. Yes, I saw that story, it was sad.

AAU is just to see talent, how your team does is irrelevant it is how you, the player, does individually. Personally, I think High School ball should still be looked at closely because you can get an idea on how the player plays in a system and with teammates. His attitude, and his competitive streak.

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Exactly, in AAU it doesn't

Exactly, in AAU it doesn't matter if you win or not, its about you individually. That's why I hate it personally. You want to see how a person gets his teammates involved and how he makes them better. How is he in the clutch when his team needs a shot. In AAU you can't evaluate that stuff, and that's why I think some really good players go unnoticed by colleges.

knicksfan7
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I must say I am proud to have

I must say I am proud to have started this thread and get such wonderful input.

OrangeJuiceJones
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There will always be players

There will always be players that go unnoticed and under-evaluated. Even guys at A.A.U events will go un-scouted, simply because they won't get any playing time.

knicksfan7
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OJJ, I do not know much about

OJJ, I do not know much about AAU, so you or someone else can help answer this for me. I thought everyone on an AAU team must get equal playing time??

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No, there are no rules for

No, there are no rules for playing time as far as I'm aware. I know several people that have played for A.A.U teams, and the best players get the most minutes. It could be different for other A.A.U teams, but that's what they told me.

delfam
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I think it might be different

I think it might be different for every team because when I played A.A.U. everyone received equal playing time, don't know if that was the coaches decision or not but we all got time.

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the answer is blacks see it

the answer is blacks see it as a way of living a job,success,feed your family,whites see it as just a game and they know more opportunities are out there for them

arman
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...

to white guys sport isnt everything... we black guys(most of us) have 2 option sport or gangbanging

leppy
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what history books don't tell you

you dont read in history books about how bad we really treated slaves. the U.S. doesnt like to paint a bad picture of themselves. Its def easier for a kid to get a pick up game of basketball going than baseball or other sports and it is cheaper. but african-americans are superior athletes because they were bred that way. just like horses. white slave owners would take the biggest slave they had and breed it with every woman they had to make the strongest slave possible. then they would take the same slave and have him sleep with his own children if he was the strongest slave still. they didnt know about inbreeding back then and prolly didnt care either. you take your strongest slave and breed him with all the girls if you didnt impregnate them yourselves. anybody who thinks slave owners didnt do this is ignorant. its common sense to want to make the best slave you can. genes are a huge factor for blakcs. football and basketball athleticism is highly valued and its why you see so many black players playing them. you dont see africans dominating sports like african americans do. its not really about blacks its about african-americans. no africans come out lebron's size. inbreeding has made them superior athletes

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this is a touchy subject. I

this is a touchy subject. I think its a combination of both athleticism as well as culture where black people tend to take the game more seriously. But i think if you look around the world where even european countries that are white are playing ball all their lives, im not seeing quite the level of athleticism. WHere are the lebron james and dwight howards and shawn kemp type white athletes all around the world. Also, more then 30 black men have been recorded in the world with a 100m time of less then 10 seconds. No white man has ever been recorded under 10 seconds. So i think it goes both ways.

But some serious talk, people shouldnt get too caught up in why. Many white players are doing well in the nba and it shouldnt bother anyone if the game is primarily black or why that is.

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great post leppy, never

great post leppy, never thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense.

leppy
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yes it is a touchy subject

and there maybe a few white players who dont think they have a chance and dont put in all the hard work they need to or see a better opportunity in another sport. but there are plenty of division 1 athletes who are white who worked plenty hard enough and just got a scholarship and got to play overseas. i think its bull&$#%#&@! to say black kids work harder than white kids. there are way more and higher percentage of black kids who didnt pick up a ball til highschool and made a d 1 college team. to think white kids who go far in basketball havent worked as hard as black kids is rediculous. kids who are slower with less jumping ability and short arms have to work more not less

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Just curious what is the

Just curious what is the ratio of white people to black people in America. I will probably look it up but I was wondering if any of yall knew?

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I think there are as many

I think there are as many white kids as black kids that want to make the NBA but there is a closer playing field with Basketball because of all the things you have stated before.

It would be politically incorrect to say one race is better than the other at something but just from living it does seem that way since none of us are scientist who have done studies, everyone of us can say whatever based on theories or our own emotional states. Black people are doing more than just play basketball just like white people are not just playing golf, running companies, being doctors. I love basketball but because of my height and what not, it was not a strong option. I am pretty sure the world is not full of black people that are meant to play basketball. Some things are cultural.

White people are more vast in numbers than black people in the states.

If 80 percent of black people wanted to do something.

80 percent of black people would not even be like 20 percent of white people wanted to do something.

What numbers are you getting that white people dont like basketball. White people make up most of the basketball fans. If you like basketball, chances are if you could play you would. You can get millions in a couple of years and change your career. That is just like rappers who use it to get into movies which if you are a big name you can make more money easier.

Michael Doleac who wanted to be doctor bu was tall and good at basketball played ball first and then when he retired after like 8 or 10 years I think he became a doctor or is working on that. I have not kept up with his progress but I know that was what he mindset was towards.

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Proportions

There are at least 3 or 4 whites for every black. The idea that certain people cant be successfulin Baseball because of money is crap. The most dominant players in the league are Domincans most of which come from areas where they cant afford shoes. Money means nothing. People who think they are dissadvantaged are just looking for an excuse. If you can speak , read, have electricy and a computer, you are far ahead of immigrants who come to this country with nothing.

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overcoming adversity

I recently saw an interview with Doctor J, about maybe more should be done to help black become better golfers to find the next tiger woods. He disagreed, he said that if there were another great golfer that they would overcome the adversity to become the greatest, Just like the president. Wether you like Obama or not he overcame adversity with tough upbringing without his parents. If he didnt have that tough childhood, he would not be president right now.

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I think that as other races

I think that as other races get money you will see if it is about money or just there are some things some races may have that advantage on. It is a touchy subject because no race wants to admit they may not be good at something that another race is but life shows us that they may be true. Is reality a lie? Black people have the same chance to be as good at baseball that Domicians have and yet that is not the case right. Some of it is cultural because you have had some good black players that were good at more than one sport choose basketball. Charlie Ward could have went the the NFL and Stephon Curry said he thought about playing in the MLB but made the choice to follow his dad and play ball.

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You're all lying to

You're all lying to yourselves if you think black people are not more naturally athletic than white people (generally.. obviously there are some naturally gifted white athletes, but they are the exception not the rule)

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Everybody knows that black

Everybody knows that black people have an extra muscle in their leg. That's why they're able to jump so high

leppy
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naturally

i wouldnt call slave inbreeding natural. look at the africans you wouldnt say that about them

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