Babbitt versus Haywood
Babbitt is already looking like a better pick than Haywood but Haywood because of hype got draft earlier just to become a role player.
Summer league.... where Sheltwons Legends are Born?
Haywood is a Summer league Legend... or fable... or mystery guy.
i think he meant gordon haywards sisters twin brother
You don't think Babbitt is going to be a role player as well? I know you've been waiting for a moment to somehow diss HAYWARD, but they're two different players to be honest.
Babbitt looked good today, but I thought Hayward looked good as well.
Do you mean Haywood Jablowme?
^LOL, that was corny. But oh so funny
Sheltwon get the name right if you're going to diss someone out. Babbitt is more NBA ready right now, but picks aren't judged until 3-5 years after the pick has been made. I think Hayward will be a solid pro.
Based on what you saw in Hayward and Babbitt, what's your input on this?
yea... I know, sorry. I couldn't help myself.
Babbitt prb does have more upside, but realize budinger was playing defense on him and Babbitt didnt look extreamly quick against him. THink about the other guys around the league and Hayward will be fine. He didnt get any minutes and was efficient when he did.
brendan haywood?? like cmon man get your &$#%#&@! 2gether
Both take what the D gives them, and both are shooters. I've only seen Babbitt play this 1 time in SL, but he played good (even though it was on a mediocre/below average defender in Chase Budinger). Hayward was average in the games I watched. I'd say it's a push as to who's better right now. Both are the same level player IMO.
It's summer league... they could both rotation players or better. But you won't find out in summer ball. You don't expect the 76ers to get rid of Evan Turner because he's struggling in summer ball right now, do you? It's like intramural ball.
my bad lol
Babbitt can score. He has a great feel for the game. I wonder how his midrange game will translate to the NBA, since he won't be able to create separation as easily as he did in college. He also isn't very quick. He will struggle on defense. He looks like he has a good B-ball IQ, so he should improve.
I dont discount what Iggy said but neither was worth a lottery pick but one guy went lottery and the other got drafted at a decent position for his skill level. Hayward does not have the upside that yall see. If that is the case anybody has upside that play basketball because you can always shoot better and play harder and learn more about basketball.
He tested a lot better than Hayward as an athlete, but I don't see that from him on the court.
Based on this one game, Hayward looks like a better athlete.
Sheltwon what is your definition of upside??? I am interested in knowing.
Knicksfan since i have more faith in your team than you do, I would watch my mouth that is all.
I noticed you try to put your two cents in anything against me.
Yall knew who i was talking bout so why try to trip but really Hayward is not that important to me to remember how to spell his name.
Knicksfan Andy Rautins to me may be better than Hayward in 3 years.
I don't know who yall think this guy is.
The development phase thing tends to be about guys who dont know how to play and are just athletes. It does not normally apply to guys who are said to have high basketball IQ and limited athleticism.
Hayward is not going to turn his athleticism from what he is to Michael Jordan anytime soon.
He doesnt show in games the athleticism that he apparently has if you go by combine numbers.
I thought Gordon Hayward was pretty athletic.
Didn't he have good results in the combine?
upside is how great can you be
we tend to base it on what a player can do now and what they could possibly do if they max out all of their God give talents and skills.
There is also a realistic view of this since most people do not every reach their max.
What do you guys see as Hayward's max.
I agree they will both be role players but Babbitt who is close to Hayward in age is ready now and has enough upside to continue to be better than Hayward. Hayward does move quicker than Babbitt but he does not use this to his advantage. Babbitt is strong enough to be a little slower because if he can deceive his defender, he can bump them and get his shot off something I don't see Hayward doing right now.
I noticed how Butler tried to turn Iggy against me since He is respected for his basketball.
I respect his basketball knowledge too
So iggy if you were drafted in the pass draft based on what you knew before hand and not with summer league where would you have drafted Hayward and also where would you have drafted Babbitt?
Sheltwon I am not going to start a &$#%#&@! match with you, but can you please find somewhere where I have said something where I did not have faith in my team?? Also this may be the 2nd time I have went against you, but that's irrelevant Also, everything else you said about Hayward just now makes no sense, and you didn't answer my question. Thanks.
Huh? I didn't try to turn anyone against you... I asked him for his opinion because he's the scout guru on the site. You're making too much of this my man...
You can tell a lot about a player from summer league. I would not say it is a tell all but you can get stuff from summer league. It is not all about stats. I know this but there are things you can look at that will tell you about a player's game.
Hayward is much more versatile than Babbitt. Babbitt is a combo forward while Hayward is a swingman who can occasionally run the point. Hayward is only 19, and his body hasn't filled out let him development before anything is said. I am high on both players, but the two players are totally different in my mind.
I did not give you the answer you wanted but I answered the question so maybe if you want a different answer rephrase it.
Also maybe I am wrong about this being more than once because it would appear that they are a lot knicksfans around and it is hard to keep track of you guys.
I never said you lost faith in your team.
Where did I say that.
It is funny how you guys read stuff into something I said that was not said.
If i wanted to say that to you I would say it outright.
How old is Babbit there Knickfans and saying one player is more versatile when they both can play two position does not add up.
Just because Hayward is a decent passer does not make him an NBA level playmaker. What game did he have more than 5 assists.
point guards have to do more than just pass and also the good ones know when to pass or shoot and dont seem hesitant to make that decision.
Knicksfan since i have more faith in your team than you do, I would watch my mouth that is all.--sheltwon3
You said that about me. So next time you should rephrase what you said, or not say it. Either way I am done over this.
I didnt see todays game, but i watched like 3 or 4 of the orlando summer games and i'll be honest, i wasnt too impressed with hayward. Not that i dont think he could be very good becasue i thought all along it would take him a year or two and his athletiticism isnt exactly a weakness, but right now he seems like a guy who is really gonna have to rely on his teammates to get him involved.
Sheltwon, Hayward is a little less than a year younger than babbitt, but Hayward does not have an NBA Body yet but you look at his frame he will grow bigger that is a big reason why Hayward has a nice amount of upside.
Knicksfan since i have more faith in your team than you do, I would watch my mouth that is all.--sheltwon3
where does this say that you have lost faith in the Knicks
Make it more clear next time considering my user name is knicksfan7. A lot of times in posts ppl respond to me by saying Knicksfan.
Other than Terrence Williams, Jrue Holiday and Lance Stephenson... I wasn't THAT impressed with anybody in Orlando. That goes for Evan Turner and Derrick Favors as well. I thought Damion James was the best rookie on the Nets. Harangody played better than Evan Turner lol. It's just summer league.
Steve Smith and Dennis Scott, two NBA guys who were up close, had good things to say about Hayward. The only negative was that he needs to be more aggressive and is too unselfish/patient.
Hayward didn't blow me away, but I saw plenty of positives that let me know he's going to be a good player for the Jazz.
lilperez I agree and I never said he lacked athleticism but he does not have elite athleticism so if he knows the game what is taking him so long and if gains too much weight he may not be as athletic as he is. Some people can not gain weight and keep their athleticism. He could wind up just as quick or lack of as Babbitt would added weight. I don't see him getting Babbitt's size though and Babbitt is not that big.
Also Babbitt is 21 and born on 6/20
and Hayward is 20 and born on 3/23
That is less than a year difference but in a years time we will revisit this and we will see who is right
It is more than a year to say who is better to me it takes anywhere from 3-5 years to say how a pick truly develops. 3 years is enough though.
I was impressed with Favors and when he finally got touches with selfish Damion James gone who I am a fan of and thought he should got first round. I live in Texas and I like his game but he was selfish. Favors looked good when he got touches but played like a scrub when he didnt.
Evan Turner did not play well but I am sure once he gets used to what Philly is doing, he should be alright but he went to the wrong team, He would have been a better fit in Minny
Kahn sucks continues
Babbitt doesn't have elite athleticism either.
IF you look at both Hayward and Babbitt, they're not that much different body wise. Babbitt is just an inch taller and longer. I actually think Hayward's body, NBA wise, looks better than Babbitt's.
Hayward is about 10 lbs from his NBA weight. I mean, he's 211 lbs right now. All he needs to do is get stronger. You have to remember that unlike Babbitt, he hasn't always been tall. Hayward had a large growth spurt late and is still growing into his body. Hayward is very much of a late bloomer, so I don't see how or why you don't think he can get better.
Anyway... Time will tell which one of these guys turns out to be the best role player lol.
Knicksfan I know it take more than a year but to see where Hayward is in a year. That actually work better for you because the biggest single jump a player tend to do is between first and second year. Hayward by default should be a better player than Babbitt is right now. I am saying we can revisit it but like you said it will probably not mean much.
In 3 years you guys will forget you said all this stuff about Hayward and jump on the next guy you think is so great.
I never said Babbitt at all has elite athleticism and Hayward will need to be good soon or he will not be in the league long enough to prove your point that he is still learning his body. He should have stayed in school.
You don't know enough about Kahn to have an informed oppinion on the subject... I suppose that is why you had the short/simple statement on the subject.
I become more convinced with every post you make that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Guys this is just the Summer League..Remember when Kwame played so well in summer league, folks were proclaiming him the 2nd coming of Garnett? LMAO!!!
Last year Wesley Matthews didnt play that well there.The Jazz invited him to training camp based on the great defensive skills he displayed...
Babbitt is more ready to contribute than Hayward...Hayward seems like a system player..Plus he has been acting timid..Utah might play might at the point during some moments of the game..Look for Babbitt to average about 10 to 13 points if he get the minutes..While Hayward might score about 7 or 8 points a game..But i think in the long run Hayward will have the better career..
Rudeboy you think he was worth a top 10 pick though
@ Butler at one point do you think I care lol
Norsemen if you think Kahn is doing at great job, you are in a small group
If you are related to Kahn, I apologize but your relative is terrible as a general manager. They may not be his gift and he needs to move on to something he is actually good at.
hayward has been like a lost lil puppy out there at times......nd this is against D-LEAGUE talent so what will he look like against nba players.....
also kahn is a fuc-kin moron folks hello......b-easy trade was solid but this is a guy trying to trade there best player AJ
I don't know what you guys are talking about.
Hayward played just like I expected him to. Like a role player.
Sheltwon..yeah Hayward should've been a top 15 pick..He has the talent to be a star in this league..He seems to have the same thing that Mike Miller
has and thats playing too passive and trying to be a great teammate..Hayward needs to adapt that i'm the best play on the court mentality....
If you judge players on Summer League then you are prolly the same person who decides rotations on Spring Training.