Anthony Davis: Overrated
I've watched 6 or 7 Kentucky games from start to finish and scrutinized every box score and just don't understand the obsession with this kid. His stats and skill sets are very similiar to Marcus Camby who has never made an All-Star game despite being a great defender. Camby was much more polished offensively, but their frame, athletism, etc are virtually identical. I think that Camby is the ceiling of what Davis is capable of and he is just as likely to be the next Hasheem Thabeet.
He does block a lot of shots, but how much does that really help defensively. Smart players such as Cody Zeller are able to get him into foul trouble because of Davis's inability to not try blocking every shot. Also blocking a shot doesn't ensure that your team will gain possesion of the ball. How many times has Davis spiked the ball out of bounds only to have the other team inbound and then score? Additionally helping over defensively to "alter" shots leaves him out of position to rebound and allows his man to clean up for easy points. I saw this happen three times against the undersized Georgia team last night.
His numbers are inflated by dominating inferior competition, but when forced to play against someone of similiar height and skill he fades away (see also Perry Jones III). I'm anxious to see how he plays against Florida twice, Vandy, and Miss St. who all have NBA caliber big men. I expect to see him pushed out of the post repeatedly and pick up some trash points, but not really contribute offensively.
If GMs were able to redraft the years that players like Camby, Tyrus Thomas, Tyson Chandler, and Thabeet were taken with the top two picks how high would they go? Obv this isn't going to change the minds of those who are desperate for the next KG, but with so many other players available I would not take the risk.
I agree with you 100% thats why i think Barnes, Q Miller and Perry will be better franchise players
Camby may have never been an all star but his defensive impact was undeniable. Davis will help improve any teams d right away no matter what he does or can do on offense.
So the bobcats shouldn't draft him with there draft pick??? Who should they take
Charlotte already has Tyrus Thomas and Bismack. Three guys that all do the same thing. Byron Mullens is progressing and gotta give Bismack some time. Sullinger or Barnes either one would start from day one and give you 15 pts per game.
He's a good player. But would you take him number one in this draft if you guaranteed to have the same career (obv no such thing as a sure thing with injuries, death, etc)? I'd take sullinger, mkg, barnes, and a handful of others first.
Im not saying Charlotte should take Davis, im in favor for Barnes to the Bobcats if they have # 2.
Right now, this kid is really raw offensively for a big man since he had only been 6'10 or 6'11 for less than 24 months (2 years). Once he fills out and gets his shot going he will be similar to Camby but there is a huge upside to this kid. He does has to "potential" to be KG 2.0. I understand what you mean that his box scores are unimpressive but you have to realize two things; One is that he is playing with 4 or 5 other players that have been #1 options on their previous team coming out of high school so they are used to carrying the load, second thing is how many times have we seen a players numbers go up once they make the step to the NBA because of the style and lenght of the game.
Everyone grows in high school. It's not his ball skills that are dissapointing as much as his frame and post abilities. And the other options for Kentucky give him easier looks although Teague would hold any team back. I wouldn't pick Teague for any game with referees. I think just as many players have faded to obscurity after matching up night after night with players the same size. Again even if he fills out to Tyson Chandler size (still two or three inches shorter) is that worth a top five pick? Sacramento or Pheonix at seven or eight makes more sense than any other pick.
Idk i'm stuck on Davis, I mean the guy is a defensive presence regardless,but I'm waiting to see him against a legit big man, but he has posted some good numbers against good teams, but Zeller did expose him just a tad bit.
Also Marcus Camby is 2 inches taller than Davis, Davis is 6'9 barefoot, Camby is 6'11 barefoot check the measurements if you don't believe me.
Making my case for me. What good numbers against good teams do you mean? Against KU, Unc, Indiana, and Georgia he averaged 7.75 points and 8.75 rebounds. Hardly dominating stuff. Lighting up Chattanoga, Ark, and Ark Little Rock skews his numbers.
O naw, I don't know what Anthony Davis will become at the next level and while you throw those averages out like that, if you do it game by game it's different:
Kansas #11 in the country at that time: 14pts,7blocks,6rebs
Louisville #4 in the country at that time: 18points,6blocks,10rebs
Georgia: 4pts,5blocks,11boards, only shot the ball twice 2-2
Against UNC 7points,9rebs.
He is a presence at least at the college level you can't deny that, no average Joe is just going to break all the records he's breaking, he has game.
But the 6-9 barefoot is a problem add in the fact he's about 215, it's uncertain as of now of what he might be at the next level.
I thought this was another WizKid post about someone being overrated...
He isn't very skilled and needs to add weight, but you can't ignore the natural package of athleticism, length, mobility, coordination, etc that he has. And offensively, he's got good hands, feet and looks like he can get a lot better there. The Marcus Camby comparison is solid, but he has more offensive potential than Camby. He has some abilities that Camby never had, especially at this age.
Even with all of the work he has to do, there's no way he falls out of the top five. You gamble on players like him. And based on what I hear, he's a hard worker. I can't see him flopping or just completely being a bust. Not unless, injuries get to him or something.
But, honest mistake. The strength quotient will be huge but I full out disagree that he is overrated. The guy is an impact guy and will flat out make some team better. He has a chance to be an impact PF down the line and will more than likely cause match-up problems for numerous teams.
Anthony Davis is all over the court and has a great nose for the ball. People may have went overboard with his "guard skills" before his growth spurt, but the guy definitely has a strong skill set that should only get better as he adjusts to his current position. The fact is, he has done a pretty damn fantastic job in his freshman year and I think that he would have made an impact at any school he had gone to. He is definitely legit and if he is not the best prospect in this draft, he is close.
davis is overrated?? hes very unpolished, true... skinny as a mug?? true....
but....... the talent is allllll there.... u cant teach what he has.... and hes only 18 or 19
honestly... i never expected him to average 20 a game this yr, but i didnt expect him to get this many boards or blocks... yet, hes unselfish as well and doesnt showboat when he gets a nice dunk or a block...
marcus camby comparison is cool....
but he gnna be way better i think
i can just tell hes gnna be a star lol
KU-against Withey who had 7 pts, 6 rebs, and 4 blocks and he's a second rounder, 1 off rebound for Davis
Louisville- cardinals have proven to be a mirage, MKG was obv the best player on the floor, Davis made 12-13 free throws which will probably never happen again as he's only shot nine free throws one other time and is a 70% free throw shooter, just two off rebounds and Dieng blocked six shots. cardinals only big guy. hell. only guy who plays above 6'5
Georgia- two big guys for Georgia shot 8-15 from the floor and Davis had huge size advantage, and i already commented on the overruse of blocked shots as a defensive stat
Unc- against two other nba caliber bigs but both non lottery picks, again didn't dominate, 2 off rebounds
And again i like Ibaka and defense is great but would you take Serge in the top 5 this year? The NBA is loaded with pfs who are going to kill Davis: Blake, Pau, ZBo, KG, Bosh, Amare, Horford, Love, Milsap, Aldridge, Jefferson, Nene, Dirk, and Duncan. So he's maybe in the top half of starting pfs...if he can be as good as Camby. Big if.
You really nitpicking bro, Davis regardless of what your saying is a beast at the collegiate level, as I stated i'm not going to speak on his pro success because he does have some question marks, but far as college goes he is as good as anyone out there, potential player of the year possibly.
I like John Henson over Ant Davis. and im serious. Henson is a beast, i wanna see him on my Sixers next year
Henson is a Jr, and has 2 years on Davis, i jus wanna see if Ant will take his offensive game to another level. He mite stay another year like Henson did
Ant Davis said you like Henson more than him? hahahahaha
I'm talking about his pro potential. He's a great college player. Just like Adam Morrison, Thabeet, Olowokandi, etc. Ten years from now we'll be laughing at the GM who took him top two and passed on Barnes, Sullinger, and MKG.
Yea your nitpicking on your so called "further" breakdown on those games, he beasted Louisville who has fallen but is still a top 25 team.
UNC game winning shot block and had 7points 9boards
Kansas 14,7blocks,6boards against any top 25 team is animal like
And against Goergia he only shot 2TIMES and made both shots and finished with 11boards 5 blocks.
But your nitpicking about playing against Whitey(Kansas)
Or saying Louisville is a mirage but yet they are still a top 25 team
UNC he only had 2 offensive boards, but made the biggest play of the day with the block on Henson.
NITPICKING is clearly what your doing, give Ant Davis his props, if he isn't a great pro more power to you for calling it out, but as of now he is a top 2 pick and arguably the reason Kentucky is #1 in the country(MKG has alot to do with that as well).
after Christmas. And currently ranked 29th. Game against Unc he looked lost all game and blocked two shots. Congrats. If you're 6'10 you get 5 or 6 boards just playing 30 minutes. You have to look at who he is playing against. His numbers are noticably down against better competition. And obv blocked shots is a great indicator of NBA greatness. Just ask Hassan Whiteside, Mickell Gladness, and Jarvis Varnado.
You could ask Whiteside, Gladness or Varnardo but maybe instead of those three you could ask Marcus Camby, Tim Duncan or David Robinson.
Davis makes a HUGE impact on defense he's like Camby but with more talent offensively. Just wait for his offensive game to be developed and utilized more
The Bobcats definitely shouldn't draft him..they're loaded at PF with players they should get his teammate Michael Kidd-Gilchrist he's a better match than Harrison Barnes
@JonOats you do know Anthony Davis didn't just have some 2 inche growth spurt, he grew 8 inches in one summer. Growing that much takes some getting used to with everything you do.
Davis is 6-10 for only two years, he hasn't hit the weight room yet as he may grow one or two more inches. He's the top shot blocker in the NCAA and played a lot of good teams. He's also scoring 13pts per game on a team loaded with potential NBA players. And I also think once he will be in the League and with more work, he will display his shooting (22/26 from the free throw line over the last five games) and his ball handling. A surefire star in the League
The kid is good but a little overrated. I just don't see how anybody can say he is the clearcut top pick. Or Drummond. I think this one is wide open. I read where a scout said it best though " I see guys like Davis all the time. Guys like Drummond come around once every 5 years or so." And Drummond has question marks too. I think theres a legit case to be made for several guys in this class. I'll make my case for all of them, say who I would pick, and give my comparison just to piss off whoever was complaining about comparisons.
Andre Drummond Comparison Amare/ Deandre Jordan
Definitely looks the part. I think he would be my choice because you just can't teach what he has and he has shown both great upside and a solid learning curve. I wouldn't feel as safe with him as you would some years but I think push comes to shove he has the size to play center in this league, the skillset to play power forward. He is young but doesn't have gaping flaws, it just isn't all together. Can be the complete package You question his will a little bit which is a big one but might be overstated, I've never met the kid so maybe Im just parroting what others have said. No lack of upside and has a pretty solid floor IMO as well, he is a starting big in the league at least. My biggest concern, other than maybe character, is if he is a tweener, undersized for a center but not a power forward. I think he more than other top picks might have alot to gain or lose with his measurements.
Anthony Davis Comparison Marcus Camby/ A more defensive Lamarcus Aldridge
I have very legit question marks about Davis, just as much as I recognize his uncanny effectiveness and upside. There is some strikeout potential, as It wouldn't shock me if he took a long time to develop, of if he wasn't a go to type player. My biggest problem with him is that he isn't a center at the next level. He has good but not freakish length at 6'10 and a 7'2 wingspan. Its very good, granted, but lots of guys in the league have that type of size. He is a very good athlete and should improve as he gets used to it. Has an intriguing straight line drive as of right now and mid range jumper shows some promise. Has a very high center of gravity, doesn't look like he will ever be specifically strong, and wont ever be able to establish deep position with his back to the basket. I like him but I wouldn't take him first. Its been said, but I think its true, you see guys like him somewhat frequently, he is just a little farther along at this early stage than they typically are.
MKG Comparison Andre Igoudala
Not much to critique about his game without being nitpicky. I'm leaning towards him more and more as my top pick. Has an alfadog mindset when it comes to his play, but is a very good teammate. Biggest problem is his jumper but it isn't broken, he is about average in college and just a freshman. He has a basic but effective offensive game. He is a better off ball player IMO, would struggle if asked to facilitate a whole team early on. Will be a lockdown wing defender. VERY low floor with him IMO, as low as anybody in the draft. He is going to be a very good starter in this league no matter what. Ready to contribute and a ton of upside, you just wonder if he is a Pippen and not a Jordan. Realistically, you take Pippen first overall if given the chance.
Harrison Barnes comparison Danny Granger
I know Barnes game very well. He is a shooter. He shows upside as a driver but its a broken part of his game right now, he isn't comfortable using it yet. He is a very good defender, not quite the athlete that Gilchrist is but stronger and very good in his own right. Will be able to guard any position decently for a posession, with a guy like that you can switch every screen which teams love. Pretty High floor as well, He is already a very good shooter with great size and defense. Has an average at best first step, struggles to create seperation. Can that be worked on? Is a very good athlete, I think he is underrated in that department. He will dunk through contact in traffic. Could be a better rebounder. I've seen his measurements at 6'7 1/2 barefoot with a 7 foot wingspan, so at the 3 he is physically elite. Has a clearcut position which you like. Motor is a little questionable, and I think he might be a tad bit soft. I wouldn't take him one but I like him alot and think he is a no brainer top 5 pick.
Perry Jones comparison?
Biggest mystery in the draft. I'm a believer in the upside, I've seen a few Baylor games and he can do alot of things nobody in this draft will ever be able to do, including Anthony Davis. You just gotta question how bad he wants it, but its hard not to be blown away by the potential. My bold prediction is that he is firmly in the conversation after a very strong march.
My biggest problem with Davis is....look back with some perspective. How much better a prospect is Davis than Brandan Wright was? And Wright has had trouble getting PT in the league. Wright was FARTHER along offensively at the same stage with about the same length but a little less physicality.
Why is everyone basing Davis's draft stock off his OFFENSIVE?? The scouts know this is his first season as a post player, they are hoping he can improve his offensive ability when he gets to the league, right now they see a big time defensive player who can POSSIBLY help a team right away.
Yes he needs an offensive game and there have been ALOTTTTTTTTTT of other centers to come and go who have been wayyyy more polished than Ant Davis on the Offensive end, but his defensive presence is sick, and the numbers he's putting up as a FIRST YEAR post player are pretty darn good:
13.2ppg, 10.3rpg, 4.7 blocks per game
That's just off instincts! All the guys yall have been mentioning have been playing in the post since grade school, this is Ant Davis FIRST YEAR and he's doing it at a high level and doing it for the BEST team in the country.
As I said the jury is still out as he measures 6'9 barefoot and is very slim, but for this to be his first year as a post player and to produce the numbers he's producing and at a high level, all you can say with him is potential,potential,potential.
Yeah I think you nail it here and to the Drummond supports on this board he only averages 9.7pts 7.6bds and 2.5blks all less than Anthony Davis. Add in the fact that Davis fg% and ft% are better than Drummonds. Drummond supposed to be the superior passser to Davis yet Davis actually averages more assist than Drummond as well (although they both stink in that department 0.9 to 0.5). I know this draft is more than Davis/Drummond as you still have Barnes Robinson Jones Lamb Sullinger and Kidd-Ghilrest hovering around the top2-6 spots. But, as far as those two are concerned you can't criticize Davis for a lack of offense and say don't pick him because he is raw offensivly and then push Drummond as your guy when he is just as raw.
The word is POTENTIEL or UPSIDE and he being so raw offensively he can only improve (I hope, unlike already mentionned Tyrus Thomas) but the team that'll him draft know that at least he'll come in and give them energy and a strong defensive presence right away.And don't forget, he's playing in the "what I believe" to be the most talented college team in the nation and he's playing within THE SYSTEM. It not like we're seeing him put up shots and going one on one and looking ridiculous (JAVALE MCGEE <<THE TRIPLE DOUBLE INCIDENT>> But yeah, the kid is (and believe you me I hate saying this word)
OOOOOZING with POTENTIEL!
So far this season Andre Drummond and Anthony Davis have played two games against same teams. Anyone care to guess how both the Freshman big men did in thier games against like competition?
Nope, just go ahead and tell us...
Drummond against Arkansas 1pt 1bds 4blks 0stls 0assts 2 fouls.
Davis against Arkansas 27pts 14bds 7blks 0stls 0ssts 0 fouls.
Drummond against Tennessee 6pts 9bds 1blk 1stls 3 fouls
Davis against Tennessee 18pts 8bds 4blks 2stls 2 fouls.
agree with almost everything you had to say. Biggest thing I disagree with is Perry Jones. I think there are too many times where he is the third (or fourth) best player on his own team. To me he is he second coming of Jonathan Bender.
Now as far as the other arguments in favor of Davis:
1. Not everyone is able to put on weight after college. Tayshaun Prince and Durant come to mind. In fact, Davis would need to gain 15 pounds to be Durant's size. Durant gets away with it because of his shooting and speed. Davis won't be so lucky.
2. I said earlier that Davis could be a servicable NBA player. But not an all star and certainly not worth a number one pick. I don't hate his game and I'm not overlooking his defensive presence. 7th best prospect in my opinion.
3. You can always find past players college vs. pro stats to prove a point, but blocked shots is one of the best examples of having almost no carry over to effectiveness in the NBA. Just look at the other people in the top ten this year in blocked shots. Or the top five over the last ten years. Emeka Okafor is the only name that stands out as someone who starts or plays regularly in the NBA. He was taken 2nd overall and has had probably the 8th best career overall of players taken that year. There are exceptions 15 or 20 years ago (Shaq, Robinson, Zo, etc) but those guys didn't look like Davis does.
One huge mistake a lot you are making is basing this comparison off stats. This has been said a few times before in this thread but who cares how many rebounds Davis has or if he shoots poorly from the field for a game or two. You must evaluate basketball from things that cant be found in the stat sheet like Davis's shot altering ability. Everyone knows Davis is a work in progress on offense and is still feeling out his new size. GET OVER THE STATS!
these games begining to end? And I suggest on mute so you don't hear the announcers sucking Davis off and just use your own eyes. And rebounds and points matter because basketball is not all about blocking shots. And if you can't guard NBA players you'll be blocking shots in practice and never seeing the court. Against college opponents with NBA level big men he's struggled if not been outplayed.
As a blue-blooded Kentucky fan I have happily watched each game in its entirety and some more than once. So A. I'm obviously going to be biased and B. I've seen what the statline doesn't show. Davis is ridiculous on the college level and deserves his title of best defender in the nation. For every shot he blocks he twice alters or makes the shooter attempt a ridiculous shot to avoid him.
What makes him different than a lot of the other shot blockers that have come by in the last few years is how talented he is at blocking from all parts of the court, how good he is at not drawing fouls (averaging a ridiculous 2 fouls per game), and his ability to do this against all competition. And he is certainly getting better as he adapts to his body. In the past 12 games he has only drawn 3 fouls in one game and has averaged 4.9 blocks, 11.3 boards, 14.4 points on 60% shooting, and a very underrated 1.3 steals to just 0.6 turnovers during this stretch.
Davis also clearly won his matchup against current PoY favorite Thomas Robinson on a neutral court earlier in the year.
The last point I'm going to make is that talk about his offensive game is unwarrented. Of Kentucky's main 7 man rotation Anthony Davis takes the least number of shots with respect to how many minutes he plays, and it's not even close. Despite this Davis has made more shots than any of his teammates, shooting on average 62.9%, the only player on the team over 50%. I feel that if Davis were on any team where he was a primary offensive option he could average well over 20ppg.
All that said, the NBA is a different animal. Davis's body type and skill set does not usually translate well to the NBA. You have to love the kids guts though, he has twice now won a game with a last second block, a feat I value over making a game winning shot. He's also hit free throws in crunch time, he does not seem to break down under pressure and I am positive we won't see his absolute best games until the NCAA comes around.
I won't get into it much but I do not like Drummond as a franchise player. He's inconsistant and I don't like his improvement over the season compared to Davis's. His Tennessee game was awful, and although I do really like Stokes, Drummond should have been able to dominate.
Great post. I agree 100% with what you said. Expcept the blue blooded Kentucky fan part.
JonOats, I dont give a crap what announcers say... Im going off my observations and Davis is a hell of a player who will be a good NBA player. If you dont see the value in his defense I dont know what to tell you.