[OhCanada-Participant]

 Its not the fact that his team lost, or that he only scored four points, its the fundimentals. The fact that late in the game he had an extremely sloppy turnover the one time in the game he looked aggressive, finishing with 4-turnovers to 1-assists. The fact that he tended to float away from the ball instead of demand it. The lack of energy and deflating body langauge. And the fact that his team didnt let him take the final shot of the game, Frankamp the hot hand got that. Imo it shows he is not yet that elite wing scorer. Not at a Div-1 NCAA level, and not at the NBA level. He is one of the most naturally talented prospects basketball has ever seen but whoever drafts him has to be ready to go to work on this kid.

Today Stanford played zone which forced Wiggins to force the issue for shots in the paint/mid range or take in system shots from the outside. Wiggins got nailed with a charge when driving early, turned the ball over on another drive, and missed a three pointer. After that his day was done confidence was shot and Kansas had no chance of advancing.

After this game I think Wiggins has to work on his footwork, dribbling, and offensive positioning in order to create shots alot better. But he definitely needs to work on that head because he did pass up on open jumpers, he was not finding the ball on Kansas offensive sts and it was a bad performance.

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

 I was just about to put up a post "Wiggins Goes Out with a Wimper."  I could not believe I was watching the consensus number one recruit in the country and athletic marvel playing today.  He had been playing at a very high level recently, but just flat out flopped today.  Four points??? Really??  Wiggins is supremely talented but has so far to go to become consistently good.  He’s so young and has a lot of hard work ahead of him.  His last game as a Jayhawk was an unforgettable one.  

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

 I was just about to put up a post "Wiggins Goes Out with a Wimper."  I could not believe I was watching the consensus number one recruit in the country and athletic marvel playing today.  He had been playing at a very high level recently, but just flat out flopped today.  Four points??? Really??  Wiggins is supremely talented but has so far to go to become consistently good.  He’s so young and has a lot of hard work ahead of him.  His last game as a Jayhawk was an unforgettable one.  

[jwall1Participant]

 I do not think this game raised red flags, because these red flags have already been raised all season. He has had great games where he has been completely dialed in and looks like a legit #1 pick, and others where he looks like a non lotto pick. Even Self was scolding Wiggins about not being aggressive enough in the game, and even after that he still took the back seat. He has the potential to be a great player, but games like this are unfortunate. 

[jwall1Participant]

 I do not think this game raised red flags, because these red flags have already been raised all season. He has had great games where he has been completely dialed in and looks like a legit #1 pick, and others where he looks like a non lotto pick. Even Self was scolding Wiggins about not being aggressive enough in the game, and even after that he still took the back seat. He has the potential to be a great player, but games like this are unfortunate. 

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 If you ask me, the worst thing he could possibly do is return to school next year even if it’s to improve on the minor knacks to his game. Strike while the iron is hot, I just don’t see the point because he’s a Top-3 lock. The worst case scenario is if he returns, he has a similar slide to Harrison Barnes in the draft. It would be great for the college game if he returns but it will not benefit him.

Wiggins can just improve himself during the offseason when the money comes in. More so the biggest knock I see is that he doesn’t have the beast mode put the team on my back mentality, Wiggins does not give me the #1 option feel only because he comes off as not hungry.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 If you ask me, the worst thing he could possibly do is return to school next year even if it’s to improve on the minor knacks to his game. Strike while the iron is hot, I just don’t see the point because he’s a Top-3 lock. The worst case scenario is if he returns, he has a similar slide to Harrison Barnes in the draft. It would be great for the college game if he returns but it will not benefit him.

Wiggins can just improve himself during the offseason when the money comes in. More so the biggest knock I see is that he doesn’t have the beast mode put the team on my back mentality, Wiggins does not give me the #1 option feel only because he comes off as not hungry.

[HaleParticipant]

Love the overreaction to one game. He played great in their first round matchup and no one said a word. Yes, he has a tendency to play passively and to disappear at times, however, if you have paid attention at all you can see he got way better at attacking as the season went along. He disappeared today, but the fact that this one game was guaranteed to get a thread shows how much you guys are over-analyzing everything he does and quite frankly it’s pathetic.

[HaleParticipant]

Love the overreaction to one game. He played great in their first round matchup and no one said a word. Yes, he has a tendency to play passively and to disappear at times, however, if you have paid attention at all you can see he got way better at attacking as the season went along. He disappeared today, but the fact that this one game was guaranteed to get a thread shows how much you guys are over-analyzing everything he does and quite frankly it’s pathetic.

[jwall1Participant]

 Its not about 1 game, he has sown inconsistency in his aggressiveness all season long. This was the most important game of their season, and even though he was scolded by Self to be more aggressive, he was not…. That raises red flags..

[jwall1Participant]

 Its not about 1 game, he has sown inconsistency in his aggressiveness all season long. This was the most important game of their season, and even though he was scolded by Self to be more aggressive, he was not…. That raises red flags..

[HaleParticipant]

He’s had plenty of "biggest games of the season". His matchup with Parker with supposed to be matchup of the year and he took over at the end and won it. In their big 12 game against ISU it was the biggest game of the season to that point, he took 22 shots (sound passive?). Against Eastern Kentucky it was his biggest game of the season up that point and he played great. Players disappear in games, especially ultra-hyped freshman with the weight of the world on their shoulders. You can all say it’s a huge red flag and maybe you wouldn’t want to take him #1, that’s fine. But don’t come back when he’s lighting the league up and pretend you guys always believed in him when 99% of you on this site are fickle and overreact to everything on both ends of the spectrum. We already saw how foolish most people on this site looked after doubting him earlier in the year.

[HaleParticipant]

He’s had plenty of "biggest games of the season". His matchup with Parker with supposed to be matchup of the year and he took over at the end and won it. In their big 12 game against ISU it was the biggest game of the season to that point, he took 22 shots (sound passive?). Against Eastern Kentucky it was his biggest game of the season up that point and he played great. Players disappear in games, especially ultra-hyped freshman with the weight of the world on their shoulders. You can all say it’s a huge red flag and maybe you wouldn’t want to take him #1, that’s fine. But don’t come back when he’s lighting the league up and pretend you guys always believed in him when 99% of you on this site are fickle and overreact to everything on both ends of the spectrum. We already saw how foolish most people on this site looked after doubting him earlier in the year.

[jwall1Participant]

 This was THE biggest game of the season for KU. In the game with Jabari, even though Wiggins played well in the second half but he was still outplayed by Jabari. I said that his aggressiveness has been inconsistent, I did not call him passive. And if you look from my past posts, I have never been big on Wiggins. Even though he has had a 40 point game (even though it should have been more like 30 with all the ridiculous foul callls) he has also had multiple duds like he did tonight. I just dont see the hunger out of him that I see from Randle, Smart, Parker, and Embiid. 

[jwall1Participant]

 This was THE biggest game of the season for KU. In the game with Jabari, even though Wiggins played well in the second half but he was still outplayed by Jabari. I said that his aggressiveness has been inconsistent, I did not call him passive. And if you look from my past posts, I have never been big on Wiggins. Even though he has had a 40 point game (even though it should have been more like 30 with all the ridiculous foul callls) he has also had multiple duds like he did tonight. I just dont see the hunger out of him that I see from Randle, Smart, Parker, and Embiid. 

[HaleParticipant]

Clearly you aren’t a fan when after one game you made a thread about him being overrated.

[HaleParticipant]

Clearly you aren’t a fan when after one game you made a thread about him being overrated.

[HaleParticipant]

For the genuises who negged me

nbadraft.net/forum/andrew-wiggins-has-been-overrated-so-far

 

[HaleParticipant]

For the genuises who negged me

nbadraft.net/forum/andrew-wiggins-has-been-overrated-so-far

 

[theballerwayParticipant]

was kinda out coached, he didnt make any effective adjustments imho. One of the comentators kept saying the same thing I was thinking why not put him in the hgh post or even move him along the baseline where he could catch an finish. The team on a whole struggled aside from Black and Frankamp.The lefty kid that [layed well last game he was attacking from the high post with some degree of effectiveness then thy went back to passing it aroungd the perimeter. I agree he could have attack more but there offense was hardly smooth and the threes werent going down. Just a bad team performance

[theballerwayParticipant]

was kinda out coached, he didnt make any effective adjustments imho. One of the comentators kept saying the same thing I was thinking why not put him in the hgh post or even move him along the baseline where he could catch an finish. The team on a whole struggled aside from Black and Frankamp.The lefty kid that [layed well last game he was attacking from the high post with some degree of effectiveness then thy went back to passing it aroungd the perimeter. I agree he could have attack more but there offense was hardly smooth and the threes werent going down. Just a bad team performance

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 I blame both wiggins and self. self has no plan b when teams play zone with wiggins i watched every game they played this year. all self does is change the players and not the way the team is attacking. they set up with wiggins on either wing and try pound you inside if it works it great if doesnt they struggle. at this point wiggins vs zone handle is not good enough to penatrate from 25 feet, to many hands and bodies in small space. self never uses wiggins flash to the foul line where he can catch and one dribble attack. even during telecast greg anthony said multiple he didnt think self was helping wiggins get any shots and asked why he wasnt flashing him to high post. secondly why he didnt use frankamp the only guy who had been shooting well until end of the game is crazy. at some point u need to try shoot them out the zone with green , frankamp, wiggins, tharpe and black. at least that would have forced zone to stretch. self made zero in game changes that helped his team. yelling at wiggins to be more aggressive doesnt count.

wiggins let them get into his head after that first drive drawing the foul. he still hasnt come to grips that sometimes he is going to have to be gunner take some bad shots try and dunk on someone give his team energy. you can see that he starts thinking and like self said when you think you cant play. he lets the zone make him passive. sometimes you have to go out shooting 5-20 because you might get 12 foul shots and end up with 20 points ugly. thats his lack of maturity. i dont think its a lack of assertiveness as much trying to think the game and not play the game. he is trying to play that perfect game and in not wanting to make a mistake he does nothing. I had a player like this before and it took a couple season to learn that there is no perfect game and a win is win whether you shoot 100% or 30%. 

 

[chocboywndrParticipant]

 I blame both wiggins and self. self has no plan b when teams play zone with wiggins i watched every game they played this year. all self does is change the players and not the way the team is attacking. they set up with wiggins on either wing and try pound you inside if it works it great if doesnt they struggle. at this point wiggins vs zone handle is not good enough to penatrate from 25 feet, to many hands and bodies in small space. self never uses wiggins flash to the foul line where he can catch and one dribble attack. even during telecast greg anthony said multiple he didnt think self was helping wiggins get any shots and asked why he wasnt flashing him to high post. secondly why he didnt use frankamp the only guy who had been shooting well until end of the game is crazy. at some point u need to try shoot them out the zone with green , frankamp, wiggins, tharpe and black. at least that would have forced zone to stretch. self made zero in game changes that helped his team. yelling at wiggins to be more aggressive doesnt count.

wiggins let them get into his head after that first drive drawing the foul. he still hasnt come to grips that sometimes he is going to have to be gunner take some bad shots try and dunk on someone give his team energy. you can see that he starts thinking and like self said when you think you cant play. he lets the zone make him passive. sometimes you have to go out shooting 5-20 because you might get 12 foul shots and end up with 20 points ugly. thats his lack of maturity. i dont think its a lack of assertiveness as much trying to think the game and not play the game. he is trying to play that perfect game and in not wanting to make a mistake he does nothing. I had a player like this before and it took a couple season to learn that there is no perfect game and a win is win whether you shoot 100% or 30%. 

 

[swoop1994Participant]

 coming from a duke fan he should be number 1 this years so why come back. We complain about one and dones but when athletes come back there stock drops like Harrison Barnes or Marcus Smart because we analyze them to death. 

[swoop1994Participant]

 coming from a duke fan he should be number 1 this years so why come back. We complain about one and dones but when athletes come back there stock drops like Harrison Barnes or Marcus Smart because we analyze them to death. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 I don’t think Wiggins is overrated, but it does amaze me how when Parker has a poor game, its usually an inefficient game where he shot poorly. And everyone talks about how bad he was on D and how he’s almost reached his ceiling. 

Whenever Wiggins plays bad, its just excuses about how it was just one game. He has had games like this where he has only taken single digit shots and had no effect on the game, and its always just a fluke.

I think Wiggins and Parker almost had even seasons in every sense. Of course they were different, but both had ups and downs. 

I just wish Wiggins was more consistent on offense. Everyone has raved all year about Wiggins and Embiid’s defense, but how can you have supposedly NBA level good defensive players at center and on the perimeter in rank 188th in defense. Which is about 100 ranks behind Duke who had no center. 

I’m just saying, defensively I didn’t think he was game changing. Offensively, the potential is absolutely there. It just didn’t show as much as I wish it did. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 I don’t think Wiggins is overrated, but it does amaze me how when Parker has a poor game, its usually an inefficient game where he shot poorly. And everyone talks about how bad he was on D and how he’s almost reached his ceiling. 

Whenever Wiggins plays bad, its just excuses about how it was just one game. He has had games like this where he has only taken single digit shots and had no effect on the game, and its always just a fluke.

I think Wiggins and Parker almost had even seasons in every sense. Of course they were different, but both had ups and downs. 

I just wish Wiggins was more consistent on offense. Everyone has raved all year about Wiggins and Embiid’s defense, but how can you have supposedly NBA level good defensive players at center and on the perimeter in rank 188th in defense. Which is about 100 ranks behind Duke who had no center. 

I’m just saying, defensively I didn’t think he was game changing. Offensively, the potential is absolutely there. It just didn’t show as much as I wish it did. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Where are they coming from? Just wondering, because I can’t find the ranking of 188th in defense, nor Duke being 100 rankings above them. I guess you can talk about scoring defense, in which Duke is 97th at 67.4 ppg and Kansas is 175th at 70.4. Though to use that as a gauge of team defense does really seem to be taking into account the big picture:

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/team-stat/scoring-defense

Seems at least slightly relevant to say Kansas was better than Duke at FG%, where they held teams to 41.5% (72nd) as opposed to Duke at 45.6% (278th):

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/team-stat/shooting-defense-category

Also, Kansas was 109th in defensive efficiency and Duke was 129th:

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency

Kansas’ defense was not great this year, though I did see Andrew Wiggins show a lot of promise on that end of the floor. He was challenged, he did not always just get put on the teams other 3 man. He guarded 1-3 and I feel for the most part, did a really good job of doing so, especially given that he was a freshman. Basketball is a team game, though and one player does not always make a team have the best defense.

Saying he is not game changing, well, what freshman wing is defensively? However, the guy played solid defense, much more so than anyone on his team not named Joel Embiid. Point to defensive rating, just realize that is not the greatest model to show individual defense. If you had stats from Synergy or specific instances saying otherwise, would love to see or hear about them.

Know we have had our own opinions between Wiggins and Parker, just was quite curious as to where the defensive stats came from that had Duke that far in front of Kansas, not to mention how that proves that Andrew Wiggins is not a better defender than Jabari Parker. Especially at the next level, when they are both projected to the perimeter.

Both players had overreactions from both their highs and lows, both had solid freshman seasons if the expectations were in order. Think that both of us just have different views, as opposed to one side always going one way or the other. It has not exactly like you have not been coming down on Andrew Wiggins at just about every turn this season, until recently.

The whole "only one game" thing just means it does not define them as a next level prospect. People may feel it is a trend or a "red flag" of weakness in either of them, though I think they both have shown the potential to be very good NBA players. Still, you even just said that they had "almost had even seasons in every sense". I think that for everything one says about what happens with standing up for Wiggins, people who are more supportive of Parker bring up his foibles to bring him down as well.

To act like Wiggins is the only one being excused for bad games seems to be missing the fact that fans of Parker do the same thing. However, as a full body of work, think they both look like really strong prospects. If people like one more than the other, they try to point out why that is so. Just am not sure that Wiggins supporters have as much of a different way at assessing things as compared to Parker supporters. Both of them point to the downside of one over the other, time will tell who is right.

Will say, have not really participated in going crazy over what either has done in college, though remember both having some great performances and some not so great ones. Also remember being impressed by Andrew Wiggins defense most of the time I watched him, which was a lot. Parker impressed me more on offense with his repetoire and his footwork. They both have things to work on and things that could get difficult for them as far as reaching their next level potential. Have found though that no one side has been completely innocent when it comes to prospect bashing.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Where are they coming from? Just wondering, because I can’t find the ranking of 188th in defense, nor Duke being 100 rankings above them. I guess you can talk about scoring defense, in which Duke is 97th at 67.4 ppg and Kansas is 175th at 70.4. Though to use that as a gauge of team defense does really seem to be taking into account the big picture:

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/team-stat/scoring-defense

Seems at least slightly relevant to say Kansas was better than Duke at FG%, where they held teams to 41.5% (72nd) as opposed to Duke at 45.6% (278th):

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/team-stat/shooting-defense-category

Also, Kansas was 109th in defensive efficiency and Duke was 129th:

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency

Kansas’ defense was not great this year, though I did see Andrew Wiggins show a lot of promise on that end of the floor. He was challenged, he did not always just get put on the teams other 3 man. He guarded 1-3 and I feel for the most part, did a really good job of doing so, especially given that he was a freshman. Basketball is a team game, though and one player does not always make a team have the best defense.

Saying he is not game changing, well, what freshman wing is defensively? However, the guy played solid defense, much more so than anyone on his team not named Joel Embiid. Point to defensive rating, just realize that is not the greatest model to show individual defense. If you had stats from Synergy or specific instances saying otherwise, would love to see or hear about them.

Know we have had our own opinions between Wiggins and Parker, just was quite curious as to where the defensive stats came from that had Duke that far in front of Kansas, not to mention how that proves that Andrew Wiggins is not a better defender than Jabari Parker. Especially at the next level, when they are both projected to the perimeter.

Both players had overreactions from both their highs and lows, both had solid freshman seasons if the expectations were in order. Think that both of us just have different views, as opposed to one side always going one way or the other. It has not exactly like you have not been coming down on Andrew Wiggins at just about every turn this season, until recently.

The whole "only one game" thing just means it does not define them as a next level prospect. People may feel it is a trend or a "red flag" of weakness in either of them, though I think they both have shown the potential to be very good NBA players. Still, you even just said that they had "almost had even seasons in every sense". I think that for everything one says about what happens with standing up for Wiggins, people who are more supportive of Parker bring up his foibles to bring him down as well.

To act like Wiggins is the only one being excused for bad games seems to be missing the fact that fans of Parker do the same thing. However, as a full body of work, think they both look like really strong prospects. If people like one more than the other, they try to point out why that is so. Just am not sure that Wiggins supporters have as much of a different way at assessing things as compared to Parker supporters. Both of them point to the downside of one over the other, time will tell who is right.

Will say, have not really participated in going crazy over what either has done in college, though remember both having some great performances and some not so great ones. Also remember being impressed by Andrew Wiggins defense most of the time I watched him, which was a lot. Parker impressed me more on offense with his repetoire and his footwork. They both have things to work on and things that could get difficult for them as far as reaching their next level potential. Have found though that no one side has been completely innocent when it comes to prospect bashing.

[Ghost01Participant]

Where are they coming from? Just wondering, because I can’t find the ranking of 188th in defense, nor Duke being 100 rankings above them. I guess you can talk about scoring defense, in which Duke is 97th at 67.4 ppg and Kansas is 175th at 70.4.

Hmmm…I wonder what stat I was referring to then.

You can go ahead and bs your way through "scoring defense doesn’t matter" but I’m not even going to waste my time arguing it.

I never even tried to act like Duke was a good defensive team, or that Parker was a good defensive player. What amazes me is you have Embiid and Wiggins and you stink on defense. Usually having 2 guys playing a lot of minutes that should be by college standards the elite of the elite when it comes to defense would result in your team being very good defensively.

I am not saying Wiggins isn’t better than Parker defensively at all. I just was never "impressed" with Wiggins defense. People who act as though offense and defense are equal in assessing a player’s skillset is just absurd. There are plenty of very good players (Harden, Irving, Melo, etc) that are horrific defensive players. There are also few perimeter defensive players that make an unbelievable impact on D. Paul George got hype as the "2nd best two-way player in the league", a foolish assertion to begin with, and if you have been watching Indiana lately even his defense has seemed suspect at times. 

My point overall is that if one of your first 2 or 3 arguments for Wiggins’ NBA success is that he will be an above average defender, I just think that is overrated. If you are describing the fact his good defense will compliment his offensive potential, then that is fine. But I wouldn’t say his defense is anything we haven’t seen before, or anything that the Lebrons and Durants of the world will rip through like they do many teams throughout the league.

Look at Anthony Davis. He was supposedly a great defensive big man. And the Pelicans STINK on defense. What’s made him great this year is the expansion of his offensive game. It is just so much more easy to control your offensive outlook than your defensive. Defense in the NBA tends to depend greatly on scheme and who the center is. That is why I thought it was absurd that Chad Ford ("draft genius") was ripping Parker’s D as if the ROTY, All Star MVP, and incredibly sought after youngster Kyrie Irving is abominable defensively. I know Parker is going to be a below average defender. That’s not why I’m drafting him. I will get my team a big man who can protect the rim and a coach that has a good scheme.

[Ghost01Participant]

Where are they coming from? Just wondering, because I can’t find the ranking of 188th in defense, nor Duke being 100 rankings above them. I guess you can talk about scoring defense, in which Duke is 97th at 67.4 ppg and Kansas is 175th at 70.4.

Hmmm…I wonder what stat I was referring to then.

You can go ahead and bs your way through "scoring defense doesn’t matter" but I’m not even going to waste my time arguing it.

I never even tried to act like Duke was a good defensive team, or that Parker was a good defensive player. What amazes me is you have Embiid and Wiggins and you stink on defense. Usually having 2 guys playing a lot of minutes that should be by college standards the elite of the elite when it comes to defense would result in your team being very good defensively.

I am not saying Wiggins isn’t better than Parker defensively at all. I just was never "impressed" with Wiggins defense. People who act as though offense and defense are equal in assessing a player’s skillset is just absurd. There are plenty of very good players (Harden, Irving, Melo, etc) that are horrific defensive players. There are also few perimeter defensive players that make an unbelievable impact on D. Paul George got hype as the "2nd best two-way player in the league", a foolish assertion to begin with, and if you have been watching Indiana lately even his defense has seemed suspect at times. 

My point overall is that if one of your first 2 or 3 arguments for Wiggins’ NBA success is that he will be an above average defender, I just think that is overrated. If you are describing the fact his good defense will compliment his offensive potential, then that is fine. But I wouldn’t say his defense is anything we haven’t seen before, or anything that the Lebrons and Durants of the world will rip through like they do many teams throughout the league.

Look at Anthony Davis. He was supposedly a great defensive big man. And the Pelicans STINK on defense. What’s made him great this year is the expansion of his offensive game. It is just so much more easy to control your offensive outlook than your defensive. Defense in the NBA tends to depend greatly on scheme and who the center is. That is why I thought it was absurd that Chad Ford ("draft genius") was ripping Parker’s D as if the ROTY, All Star MVP, and incredibly sought after youngster Kyrie Irving is abominable defensively. I know Parker is going to be a below average defender. That’s not why I’m drafting him. I will get my team a big man who can protect the rim and a coach that has a good scheme.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

What I was pointing out was that maybe referring to it as "defense" instead of scoring defense was a misleading way to try and make your point. Also wanted to open your mind to "defense" being more than just single game scoring defense. That defensive efficiency (which at least attempts to put everyone on the same level by making it scoring per 100 possessions), defensive field goal percentage and experience (especially in college) play a part in defense as well. Duke had a lot more experience on the perimeter and it showed. However, in the place where a center matters more, they struggled. That is in field goal percentage defense, where they were much lower than Kansas and finished 14th in the ACC.

Once again, believe you are trying to recollect my argument rather than going back and looking at exactly what was said. I think it is fine if you think Wiggins defense is not exponentially better than that of Parker, nor if it picks up enough ground to overtake him as a prospect. The issue I had was with the way you tried to make this point, in that referring to scoring defense as "defense" it might not really take into account individual defense as much as team defense.

It is fine to expect more from a team with Joel Embiid, though realize he averaged 23.1 mpg and can only be responsible for the time he is on the court. Also realize that Kansas’ other perimeter defenders besides Wiggins were WAY more awful at defense than Andrew Wiggins. One can only cover so much of the court and two good defenders do not necessarily make your team a great defensive team. Especially when your team has no returning starters and your best defenders are freshmen. I know Wiggins and Embiid might be the first two picks, much like Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were in 2012. There is a reason though that Kentucky had six 2012 draftees and the aforementioned pair of Jayhawks are likely to be the only ones from KU in the 2014 addition.

Now, to your point about Anthony Davis. His offensive expansion is definitely part of why people are so high on him this season. He has a lot to work on defensively, with his needing more upper body strength among other things. However, you really see no defensive upside? Has he shown no improvement as a defender? He has not changed the Pelicans defense single handedly, though I think he at least is a bright spot. That he has shown the ability to become a very good individual and team defender, with rare instincts on that end of the floor. This has to do something to have people loving his prospects for the future, does it not?

Andrew Wiggins is not something no one has seen as a defensive prospect, though that still does not mean he did not show some things that you would want in turning into a strong defensive presence. Even with the Paul George "best two way player" not really meaning much, it still does not hurt that he is at least a solid defender (he is). Do not know where I said I expected Wiggins to shut down Durant or LeBron, just saying he may have a chance to be a pretty good, versatile perimeter defender. You may not have seen it, I watched a lot of his games and saw some good things on that end. He absolutely will need work, it will take time. Realize that most perimeter players do take time to turn into strong defenders though, that Kobe Bryant and LeBron James (examples of perimeter players, not people I am saying Wiggins is going to be) took time before they were first team all-defense.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion about Parker and I have always said, think he is a great prospect. I am not as worried about his defense as many others, though he may struggle covering the perimeter. Your example, Kyrie Irving, has yet to lead his team to the play-offs and many of your other examples have fallen in crucial situations with their lack of defense not really helping. Still, if you feel Parker’s overall game is better than Wiggins and Wiggins defensive ability is not enough to overtake that, you have a point. My only thing is I feel some of the examples and statistics used to make this point have been misleading, which does not really help make this case. Pointing that their is more to defense than just the statistic you tried to use to devalue players who are considered to have potential on that end of the floor, is not meant to make you feel a need to get defensive (pardon the pun).

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

What I was pointing out was that maybe referring to it as "defense" instead of scoring defense was a misleading way to try and make your point. Also wanted to open your mind to "defense" being more than just single game scoring defense. That defensive efficiency (which at least attempts to put everyone on the same level by making it scoring per 100 possessions), defensive field goal percentage and experience (especially in college) play a part in defense as well. Duke had a lot more experience on the perimeter and it showed. However, in the place where a center matters more, they struggled. That is in field goal percentage defense, where they were much lower than Kansas and finished 14th in the ACC.

Once again, believe you are trying to recollect my argument rather than going back and looking at exactly what was said. I think it is fine if you think Wiggins defense is not exponentially better than that of Parker, nor if it picks up enough ground to overtake him as a prospect. The issue I had was with the way you tried to make this point, in that referring to scoring defense as "defense" it might not really take into account individual defense as much as team defense.

It is fine to expect more from a team with Joel Embiid, though realize he averaged 23.1 mpg and can only be responsible for the time he is on the court. Also realize that Kansas’ other perimeter defenders besides Wiggins were WAY more awful at defense than Andrew Wiggins. One can only cover so much of the court and two good defenders do not necessarily make your team a great defensive team. Especially when your team has no returning starters and your best defenders are freshmen. I know Wiggins and Embiid might be the first two picks, much like Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were in 2012. There is a reason though that Kentucky had six 2012 draftees and the aforementioned pair of Jayhawks are likely to be the only ones from KU in the 2014 addition.

Now, to your point about Anthony Davis. His offensive expansion is definitely part of why people are so high on him this season. He has a lot to work on defensively, with his needing more upper body strength among other things. However, you really see no defensive upside? Has he shown no improvement as a defender? He has not changed the Pelicans defense single handedly, though I think he at least is a bright spot. That he has shown the ability to become a very good individual and team defender, with rare instincts on that end of the floor. This has to do something to have people loving his prospects for the future, does it not?

Andrew Wiggins is not something no one has seen as a defensive prospect, though that still does not mean he did not show some things that you would want in turning into a strong defensive presence. Even with the Paul George "best two way player" not really meaning much, it still does not hurt that he is at least a solid defender (he is). Do not know where I said I expected Wiggins to shut down Durant or LeBron, just saying he may have a chance to be a pretty good, versatile perimeter defender. You may not have seen it, I watched a lot of his games and saw some good things on that end. He absolutely will need work, it will take time. Realize that most perimeter players do take time to turn into strong defenders though, that Kobe Bryant and LeBron James (examples of perimeter players, not people I am saying Wiggins is going to be) took time before they were first team all-defense.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion about Parker and I have always said, think he is a great prospect. I am not as worried about his defense as many others, though he may struggle covering the perimeter. Your example, Kyrie Irving, has yet to lead his team to the play-offs and many of your other examples have fallen in crucial situations with their lack of defense not really helping. Still, if you feel Parker’s overall game is better than Wiggins and Wiggins defensive ability is not enough to overtake that, you have a point. My only thing is I feel some of the examples and statistics used to make this point have been misleading, which does not really help make this case. Pointing that their is more to defense than just the statistic you tried to use to devalue players who are considered to have potential on that end of the floor, is not meant to make you feel a need to get defensive (pardon the pun).

[Ghost01Participant]

 I don’t think Davis is a poor defender, lacks defensive potential, or hasn’t improved. 

I never said that. His team is bad on defense, and what has stuck out this season is his offensive and rebounding numbers, not how he has changed the game with his D. Remember, some thought (legitimately) he would have a Duncan/Russell impact on a team defensively.

Right now, he’s another incredibly talented young player who hasn’t shown the ability to will his team to wins. Which is fine, I wouldn’t expect that by year two already.

But if he isn’t making his team markedly better on D, this is an example of why I am not entirely worried about drafting a single player based on their defense. 

[Ghost01Participant]

 I don’t think Davis is a poor defender, lacks defensive potential, or hasn’t improved. 

I never said that. His team is bad on defense, and what has stuck out this season is his offensive and rebounding numbers, not how he has changed the game with his D. Remember, some thought (legitimately) he would have a Duncan/Russell impact on a team defensively.

Right now, he’s another incredibly talented young player who hasn’t shown the ability to will his team to wins. Which is fine, I wouldn’t expect that by year two already.

But if he isn’t making his team markedly better on D, this is an example of why I am not entirely worried about drafting a single player based on their defense. 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Hale Ive been a fan for 7 years and this is the first time Ive brought this up. Its not a reaction to one game its a reaction to his amateur career. I dont care what the media said or what fans say or haters say my eyes led me to the conclusion that he can easily lose confidence in any game. Once you lose confidence in yourself the games over. He missed a 3, got called on a charge, then turned over the ball then fear of failure kicked in and he froze up. He is young it can be worked on although teams drafting him should be careful not to promote him as thier savior because he has a long way to go. 

Does he have the physical tools and natural athletisism to be the best player in the league?Yes.

Does he have the skillset and mental strength to be the best player in the league? No.

Both statements are facts which leads to the only conclusion. He needs time to learn so be patient. Im not hating on Wiggins.

Imo he is in the same situation as Embiid. He will be an extremely servicable starter and likely consistant allstar. Superstars in the league are very rare and he is not that yet, he had been dubbed as a superstar and it is fair because with more responsibility comes more money. Now since he is heralded as a superstar his responsibility is to perform like one. I dont think he is cspable of that at this point.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Hale Ive been a fan for 7 years and this is the first time Ive brought this up. Its not a reaction to one game its a reaction to his amateur career. I dont care what the media said or what fans say or haters say my eyes led me to the conclusion that he can easily lose confidence in any game. Once you lose confidence in yourself the games over. He missed a 3, got called on a charge, then turned over the ball then fear of failure kicked in and he froze up. He is young it can be worked on although teams drafting him should be careful not to promote him as thier savior because he has a long way to go. 

Does he have the physical tools and natural athletisism to be the best player in the league?Yes.

Does he have the skillset and mental strength to be the best player in the league? No.

Both statements are facts which leads to the only conclusion. He needs time to learn so be patient. Im not hating on Wiggins.

Imo he is in the same situation as Embiid. He will be an extremely servicable starter and likely consistant allstar. Superstars in the league are very rare and he is not that yet, he had been dubbed as a superstar and it is fair because with more responsibility comes more money. Now since he is heralded as a superstar his responsibility is to perform like one. I dont think he is cspable of that at this point.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

This is his real first pressured intense playoffs type sitation. I’ll expect him to learn from it and get a lot better. Take in how much better he gotten all season. He didn’t come to college extremely skilled like Jabari Parker, but rarely any prospect does. It’s scary thinking when Wiggins polishes his game and skills how capable of a two way player he can be.  I wish he showed up, but this isn’t a red flag. 

 

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

This is his real first pressured intense playoffs type sitation. I’ll expect him to learn from it and get a lot better. Take in how much better he gotten all season. He didn’t come to college extremely skilled like Jabari Parker, but rarely any prospect does. It’s scary thinking when Wiggins polishes his game and skills how capable of a two way player he can be.  I wish he showed up, but this isn’t a red flag. 

 

[Rdf1212Participant]

 New poster. I think wiggins will suffer from his passive play. Not a first option on a championship team at the next level.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

He is 18yrs, and isn’t all that skilled yet. Wait at least a couple years when he is in the NBA before you write him off. Once he and his game matures so will his confidents in being more insertive/aggressive.

[For_Never_EverParticipant]

He is 18yrs, and isn’t all that skilled yet. Wait at least a couple years when he is in the NBA before you write him off. Once he and his game matures so will his confidents in being more insertive/aggressive.

[Rdf1212Participant]

 New poster. I think wiggins will suffer from his passive play. Not a first option on a championship team at the next level.

[OhCanada-Participant]

This conversation is useless for those who didnt watxh the game. Point is he isnt Lebron or Melo entering the league he is more like Paul George. He needs time to develop. If you thought you were getting Lebron, Melo, Durant this game was a red flag.

[OhCanada-Participant]

This conversation is useless for those who didnt watxh the game. Point is he isnt Lebron or Melo entering the league he is more like Paul George. He needs time to develop. If you thought you were getting Lebron, Melo, Durant this game was a red flag.

[Pro-21Participant]

I don’t think its as much a matter of his passiveness as it is his inability to handle the ball too well. Against E. Kentucky like 5 of his field goals were dunks and he had one nice drive. The first time he put the ball on the floor to generate offense he got stripped. But I think ball handling is something you can improve, and his jumpshot will be a more consistent weapon down the line. He was able to average 17.5 points this season without a super polished skill set. I think that says a lot about his potential. He’ll be a good defender and transition player in the open style of the NBA, but it will take a while for him to reach his potential.

[Pro-21Participant]

I don’t think its as much a matter of his passiveness as it is his inability to handle the ball too well. Against E. Kentucky like 5 of his field goals were dunks and he had one nice drive. The first time he put the ball on the floor to generate offense he got stripped. But I think ball handling is something you can improve, and his jumpshot will be a more consistent weapon down the line. He was able to average 17.5 points this season without a super polished skill set. I think that says a lot about his potential. He’ll be a good defender and transition player in the open style of the NBA, but it will take a while for him to reach his potential.

[BigChamp12Participant]

 I actually think its the players he is playing with. Mason and Tharpe. They are small below average guatds that dont create many open shots for others. Wiggins should get many more open lanes , open shots and lobs. He tried attacking the zone today but he RARELY even touched the ball. Even on the last play he curved down hill calling for it but they overlooked him. Those guys never made it a point to make Wiggins better. He usually scored this season when he created for himself.

[BigChamp12Participant]

 I actually think its the players he is playing with. Mason and Tharpe. They are small below average guatds that dont create many open shots for others. Wiggins should get many more open lanes , open shots and lobs. He tried attacking the zone today but he RARELY even touched the ball. Even on the last play he curved down hill calling for it but they overlooked him. Those guys never made it a point to make Wiggins better. He usually scored this season when he created for himself.

[NeggedFolyfe]

even with good games I have been critical of him but I have come to the conclusion he will be better in the pros when your in college you have to focus on living life, school and ball then future aspirations

when all he has to do in the nba  is focus on life and ball  hire trainers to work with him better work outs, also the nba has some of the best facilities and training staffs and the world.

I think wiggins was a good college player inconsistent but still good I think he will be a much better pro

but its up to him.

[NeggedFolyfe]

even with good games I have been critical of him but I have come to the conclusion he will be better in the pros when your in college you have to focus on living life, school and ball then future aspirations

when all he has to do in the nba  is focus on life and ball  hire trainers to work with him better work outs, also the nba has some of the best facilities and training staffs and the world.

I think wiggins was a good college player inconsistent but still good I think he will be a much better pro

but its up to him.

[B EazyParticipant]

Looks like I’m still right. All you Wiggins obsessors have said is that "it’s one game…it’s one game". No. It’s been like this the whole season so don’t use that one game line. Sure he’s 18 but you can’t teach fire, aggression, and conistency. That’s why the Paul George comparison is so accurate in my mind. He’s capable of great things at times, but other times he’s going to struggle with consistency just like George has all season. 

[B EazyParticipant]

Looks like I’m still right. All you Wiggins obsessors have said is that "it’s one game…it’s one game". No. It’s been like this the whole season so don’t use that one game line. Sure he’s 18 but you can’t teach fire, aggression, and conistency. That’s why the Paul George comparison is so accurate in my mind. He’s capable of great things at times, but other times he’s going to struggle with consistency just like George has all season. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though to say this is a red flag on his entire mentality and potential career seems to be going a tad overboard. He has things to work on, this game highlighted some of them, though we knew they were there if you have watched him this season. Everyone acts like he should just be able to take over the game, it is not that easy for anyone, including him. He had been troubled by the zone a few times this season and while it seemed he had improved against it, Stanford had a fantastic defensive game plan. They were an older team that beat a younger team, when it really comes down to it.

As far as an NCAA defeat defining ones career, not always the case. Guess Chris Webber was always a bridesmaid and never a bride, though as it was in the NCAA it was in the NBA, not all his fault. The best player gets the blame, especially when they underperform. Though while this is getting beaten to death in this thread, he is 19 and he has quite a few things on his side.

The passivity argument with Wiggins reminds me of the same one with Andre Drummond. Here again we have a guy with tremendous size, speed and overall athleticism for his position. He still did not necessarily have all the tools to use this to "take over games" or dominate game-in game-out. His last NCAA game, he went for 2 points and 3 rebounds, while being absolutely LIT up by Royce White (LIT capitalized, because Royce destroyed him). Guess the one positive in this Wiggins game is he made Josh Huestis struggle, lol.

My point is not saying they are similar players in the way they play, but with this "motor" and "passivity" argument. The "drifting". To me, it is knowing what to do and developing confidence in doing it. Wiggins has not shown gigantic bunches of that, even when he has been great this year. The thing is, can he not develop it? I think that a guy like Drummond is proof that given time and work, it can happen. Andre is a freak now, at the NBA level. Does Andrew Wiggins not have some of that potential freakiness at the wing position? I think so.

Once again, people overreacting to EVERY game Wiggins has, good and bad, has been insane. Though, he has been an interesting case study and obviously a prospect we want to talk about. My thoughts, even before the tournament started, is that while people seemed to believe March would matter to distinguish Wiggins or Parker as the top pick, their is no historical evidence in any draft that a first pick has been decided by tournament play. You decide by watching them play and their body of work.

Both were fantastic this year in my opinion and Parker was better. Both have things they absolutely need to work on at the next level. To say one gets a clean sleight and the other gets hated on holds no real water, as they have both been scrutinized to death. I said nothing about Parker’s and the loss to Mercer, because I feel the same way as Wiggins current loss. You can say "Parker lost better", but what does that accomplish? They both showed they have things to work on and that basketball is a team sport. Parker absolutely needs to work on his defense. Wiggins has to get a much cleaner handle and improve his footwork.

In the end, I see no recurring trend and think they are still both great draft prospects. They both need work, which I think is much more typical than many people tend to believe it is. We will be talking about both of them in the NBA immediately, though it will probably take time before we talk about them being a centerpiece of a play-off team. At the very least, it seems like their is a distinct possibility they could both be in that conversation, which is a great thing. Will say, whoever you liked more as a prospect, their was little chance of that changing based on their work in the tournament. Just go through past drafts to see the first pick, than see no real evidence of March Madness being the reason as to why that player was drafted over another possible option.

[NeggedFolyfe]

Drummond was odd to gage I was against him and all the hype…. boy was I wrong but its  hard to see how good a player was when he stayed in foul trouble through out the whole season

so fouls was a big reason ppl doubted Drummond he was on the bench a lot  and probably couldn’t get into a rhythm but his advance stats where nice along with his athletic ability and power.

 

Wiggins is a different case but it took Paul a while to become what he is now but that’s not saying wiggins will be a lesser or greater player but I can see him taking a while to develop not making a splash like andre his rookie season.

[NeggedFolyfe]

Drummond was odd to gage I was against him and all the hype…. boy was I wrong but its  hard to see how good a player was when he stayed in foul trouble through out the whole season

so fouls was a big reason ppl doubted Drummond he was on the bench a lot  and probably couldn’t get into a rhythm but his advance stats where nice along with his athletic ability and power.

 

Wiggins is a different case but it took Paul a while to become what he is now but that’s not saying wiggins will be a lesser or greater player but I can see him taking a while to develop not making a splash like andre his rookie season.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Though to say this is a red flag on his entire mentality and potential career seems to be going a tad overboard. He has things to work on, this game highlighted some of them, though we knew they were there if you have watched him this season. Everyone acts like he should just be able to take over the game, it is not that easy for anyone, including him. He had been troubled by the zone a few times this season and while it seemed he had improved against it, Stanford had a fantastic defensive game plan. They were an older team that beat a younger team, when it really comes down to it.

As far as an NCAA defeat defining ones career, not always the case. Guess Chris Webber was always a bridesmaid and never a bride, though as it was in the NCAA it was in the NBA, not all his fault. The best player gets the blame, especially when they underperform. Though while this is getting beaten to death in this thread, he is 19 and he has quite a few things on his side.

The passivity argument with Wiggins reminds me of the same one with Andre Drummond. Here again we have a guy with tremendous size, speed and overall athleticism for his position. He still did not necessarily have all the tools to use this to "take over games" or dominate game-in game-out. His last NCAA game, he went for 2 points and 3 rebounds, while being absolutely LIT up by Royce White (LIT capitalized, because Royce destroyed him). Guess the one positive in this Wiggins game is he made Josh Huestis struggle, lol.

My point is not saying they are similar players in the way they play, but with this "motor" and "passivity" argument. The "drifting". To me, it is knowing what to do and developing confidence in doing it. Wiggins has not shown gigantic bunches of that, even when he has been great this year. The thing is, can he not develop it? I think that a guy like Drummond is proof that given time and work, it can happen. Andre is a freak now, at the NBA level. Does Andrew Wiggins not have some of that potential freakiness at the wing position? I think so.

Once again, people overreacting to EVERY game Wiggins has, good and bad, has been insane. Though, he has been an interesting case study and obviously a prospect we want to talk about. My thoughts, even before the tournament started, is that while people seemed to believe March would matter to distinguish Wiggins or Parker as the top pick, their is no historical evidence in any draft that a first pick has been decided by tournament play. You decide by watching them play and their body of work.

Both were fantastic this year in my opinion and Parker was better. Both have things they absolutely need to work on at the next level. To say one gets a clean sleight and the other gets hated on holds no real water, as they have both been scrutinized to death. I said nothing about Parker’s and the loss to Mercer, because I feel the same way as Wiggins current loss. You can say "Parker lost better", but what does that accomplish? They both showed they have things to work on and that basketball is a team sport. Parker absolutely needs to work on his defense. Wiggins has to get a much cleaner handle and improve his footwork.

In the end, I see no recurring trend and think they are still both great draft prospects. They both need work, which I think is much more typical than many people tend to believe it is. We will be talking about both of them in the NBA immediately, though it will probably take time before we talk about them being a centerpiece of a play-off team. At the very least, it seems like their is a distinct possibility they could both be in that conversation, which is a great thing. Will say, whoever you liked more as a prospect, their was little chance of that changing based on their work in the tournament. Just go through past drafts to see the first pick, than see no real evidence of March Madness being the reason as to why that player was drafted over another possible option.

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

My nephew was extra hype to guard him. He never faced someone bigger,stronger who is long and athletic and a 3x all conference dander before. The zone was the icing on the cake because after his confidence went down from getting locked up it was all she wrote

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

My nephew was extra hype to guard him. He never faced someone bigger,stronger who is long and athletic and a 3x all conference dander before. The zone was the icing on the cake because after his confidence went down from getting locked up it was all she wrote

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

 Should have never laughed when the media asked him about stopping Randle/Stanford. Before the game they are telling me they took that very personally. Selden laughed as well

[GoJOSH HUESTISParticipant]

 Should have never laughed when the media asked him about stopping Randle/Stanford. Before the game they are telling me they took that very personally. Selden laughed as well

[King CaluchaParticipant]

So Wiggins has one bad game and suddenly he’s raising red flags. The Harrison twins shoot well (I don’t think they didn’t have a great all around game) and suddenly they are living up to the hype. Great!

[King CaluchaParticipant]

So Wiggins has one bad game and suddenly he’s raising red flags. The Harrison twins shoot well (I don’t think they didn’t have a great all around game) and suddenly they are living up to the hype. Great!

[HOops1562Participant]

Just how NBADraft.net is … one moment your the next big thing the next you suck and shouldn’t be drafted lol ….

[HOops1562Participant]

Just how NBADraft.net is … one moment your the next big thing the next you suck and shouldn’t be drafted lol ….

[unbelievaParticipant]

The floor spacing in the college game does no favours to wiggins game. Seems like the key is non stop clogged every game kansas plays.  Constantly playing two bigs and no great shooters (frankamp doesn’t play big minutes) doesn’t help.  I wish self would have played Andrew at the 4 more when they faced big zones.  The space traylor had when he caught the ball In the middle was there every time.  Put wiggins there where he can make plays and maybe this thread isn’t posted.  

That being said I do love that after the game he took full responsibility.  Said he let everyone down.  Didn’t hide behind anyone or anything.  Didn’t make excuses.  Said he let his team down.  I do respect the maturity. 

[unbelievaParticipant]

The floor spacing in the college game does no favours to wiggins game. Seems like the key is non stop clogged every game kansas plays.  Constantly playing two bigs and no great shooters (frankamp doesn’t play big minutes) doesn’t help.  I wish self would have played Andrew at the 4 more when they faced big zones.  The space traylor had when he caught the ball In the middle was there every time.  Put wiggins there where he can make plays and maybe this thread isn’t posted.  

That being said I do love that after the game he took full responsibility.  Said he let everyone down.  Didn’t hide behind anyone or anything.  Didn’t make excuses.  Said he let his team down.  I do respect the maturity. 

[MadDogParticipant]

I don’t think the Paul George comparison is spot on because George is (and always has been to an extent) a guy who shoots a lot, the main problem with Wiggins is that he doesn’t shoot enough. That being said, the NBA is much more of a full court, fast paced game than the NCAA so that will definitely work to his advantage being the phenomenal athlete he is. It definitely was a let down to see him falter in the most crucial game of the season but seeing as Parker was equally unimpressive and Embiid was injured I don’t see his stock falling much.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

He averaged 34.6 mpg and shot 10.4 times per game. This while playing at Fresno St. in the WAC. Andrew Wiggins shot 12.1 times per game in 32.8 mpg this season. Do not see the direct correlation towards George being more aggressive at the same stage. He did shoot a better percentage from the field and from long range as a freshman, only to shoot 12.5 times per game in 33.2 mpg as a sophomore on 42.4% FG and 35.3% 3PT. So again, don’t see what would indicate George always being more aggressive, before coming to the NBA.

The thing that made Paul George a very intriguing prospect was his length, athleticism and versatility. He obviously had a nice shooting stroke, he moved really well and he had some ball skills to make him a tough match-up. Still, his becoming the player he is currently was a process where he put in a considerable amount of time and work to get to the level he is now at. Having those tools certainly did not hurt and Andrew Wiggins obviously will need to put in the work as well. Their just is very little indication that Paul George was the more aggressive of the two without using the benefit of hindsight once he was drafted by the Pacers.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

He averaged 34.6 mpg and shot 10.4 times per game. This while playing at Fresno St. in the WAC. Andrew Wiggins shot 12.1 times per game in 32.8 mpg this season. Do not see the direct correlation towards George being more aggressive at the same stage. He did shoot a better percentage from the field and from long range as a freshman, only to shoot 12.5 times per game in 33.2 mpg as a sophomore on 42.4% FG and 35.3% 3PT. So again, don’t see what would indicate George always being more aggressive, before coming to the NBA.

The thing that made Paul George a very intriguing prospect was his length, athleticism and versatility. He obviously had a nice shooting stroke, he moved really well and he had some ball skills to make him a tough match-up. Still, his becoming the player he is currently was a process where he put in a considerable amount of time and work to get to the level he is now at. Having those tools certainly did not hurt and Andrew Wiggins obviously will need to put in the work as well. Their just is very little indication that Paul George was the more aggressive of the two without using the benefit of hindsight once he was drafted by the Pacers.

[MadDogParticipant]

I don’t think the Paul George comparison is spot on because George is (and always has been to an extent) a guy who shoots a lot, the main problem with Wiggins is that he doesn’t shoot enough. That being said, the NBA is much more of a full court, fast paced game than the NCAA so that will definitely work to his advantage being the phenomenal athlete he is. It definitely was a let down to see him falter in the most crucial game of the season but seeing as Parker was equally unimpressive and Embiid was injured I don’t see his stock falling much.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I should really choose my words wiser next time. 

I am still Wiggins biggest fan… I still believe in him 100 percent. My "red flags" analysis does not mean I think he wont reach his potential. His cieling is limitless that cannot change unless he is injured critically its his floor that was exposed in this game. He wont step in and change a franchise overnight singlehanded similar to Lebron, KD, Melo. He still needs development so if you are drafting for sooner success look at Jabari. 

The Paul George comparison isnt the role and productivity I am expecting from him (although not a bad comparison). It is a developmental comparison. MikeyV nailed it with Andre Drummond. The team drafting him needs to be patient and underpromise allowing Wiggins to overdeliver.

This game should be a huge learning experience for Wiggins. It should drive him to grt better and consistantly be aggressive. 

And to all those people making corny comments like "so he has one game and then…blahblah", try being his fan for years waiting for him to develop and dominate at the NCAA stage. Then he develops and does not dominate due to a confidence issue. Its alot easier for me to ignore it and say "ah nah its just one game" instead of stating that he has some work to do.

Whats the problem with needing to work and get better is that so unbelievable that he is not yet a superstar.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I should really choose my words wiser next time. 

I am still Wiggins biggest fan… I still believe in him 100 percent. My "red flags" analysis does not mean I think he wont reach his potential. His cieling is limitless that cannot change unless he is injured critically its his floor that was exposed in this game. He wont step in and change a franchise overnight singlehanded similar to Lebron, KD, Melo. He still needs development so if you are drafting for sooner success look at Jabari. 

The Paul George comparison isnt the role and productivity I am expecting from him (although not a bad comparison). It is a developmental comparison. MikeyV nailed it with Andre Drummond. The team drafting him needs to be patient and underpromise allowing Wiggins to overdeliver.

This game should be a huge learning experience for Wiggins. It should drive him to grt better and consistantly be aggressive. 

And to all those people making corny comments like "so he has one game and then…blahblah", try being his fan for years waiting for him to develop and dominate at the NCAA stage. Then he develops and does not dominate due to a confidence issue. Its alot easier for me to ignore it and say "ah nah its just one game" instead of stating that he has some work to do.

Whats the problem with needing to work and get better is that so unbelievable that he is not yet a superstar.

[Fun one partyParticipant]

 Wiggins is already my favorite college player and he will be the best player from this draft.If i was GM i would be very happy to draft Wiggins at number 1.

[Fun one partyParticipant]

 Wiggins is already my favorite college player and he will be the best player from this draft.If i was GM i would be very happy to draft Wiggins at number 1.

[Author]

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