This topic contains 26 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar billyk 13 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #23868
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    JoeWolf1

     Which young center do you think has more potential, is better right now, and which one would you rather have on your team?

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  • #454874
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    delfam
    Participant

    It really all depends what PF they play with, Noah and Boozer are perfect since Boozer can score in the paint and Noah can just play D and rebound.

    Bogut is perfect for the Bucks cause he can score while Larry Sanders can play defense.

    Overall, I’d probably lean Noah because of his energy but it is really close.

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  • #454877
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    mikeyvthedon
    Participant

    It has to be Noah. Bogut may be more offensively polished and could even be the better player right now, but he has been injured constantly. If Bogut did not have issues with his health, this could be more of a contest, but Noah is younger, more athletic and has not had the recurring injuries of Bogut. I would definitely rather have Joakim Noah on my team right now unless I am living in a fairy tale. I know Bogut is leading the league in blocked shots, but I still think Noah is every bit the defender he is and right now he is shooting at a much higher percentage from both the line and the field than Bogut. I know they play different roles on their team, but Bogut’s hinderances right now being injuries and his team playing poorly still do not make him a more desirable player in my book than Noah. Right now, I would say it is no contest.

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  • #454879
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    RUDEBOY_
    Participant

    To me picking between Noah or Bogut isnt as easy as people think..

    Some might say Bogut becuz he has the better all around game and plays better defense..But Bogut isnt a franchise type player…Noah does all the little things that help your team win…But his defense is very overrated and he gets pushed around by alot of the top centers,when he’s on offense…But centers also extend alot of energy by trying to guard him ..Noah does things that affects alot of centers and throws them off their game…Noah uses his length to swipe away balls,blocking shots…

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  • #454880
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    RUDEBOY_
    Participant

    lmao @mikeyvthedon talking bout living in a fairy tale….

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  • #454881
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    BothTeamsPlayedHard
    Participant

    Bogut does all the things on the glass and the defensive end that Noah does and is a vastly superior offensive player. The only knock on Bogut is that he gets hurt every year.

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  • #454889
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    TRC1991
    Participant

    for how much talent bogut has, you think he could average 20 and 10

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  • #454898
    marcusfizer21marcusfizer21
    marcusfizer21
    Participant

    Biasor not I’m picking Noah… Yes he has his limits in the offensive end and yes, Bogut is better than him in terms of offensive repertoires but what makes Noah attractive is his will to win and the intangibles he brings to a team… His defense and rebounding is what makes him a big part of any team.. I am just glad he’s with my Bulls… Noah can go scoreless and he doesn’t really give a crap about it… His job is to pull down 12 rebounds a night and at least make some defensive stops… Noah’s my guy

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  • #454910
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    doubledribbler
    Participant

    Count me among the people that think this is easy. I would pick Noah, even if Bogut didn’t have an injury history. Don’t get me wrong. I think Bogut has been a very underrated center. In the beginning of his career he never got the ball and even now he’s not getting the shots he deserves despite being an excellent passer and being great with both hands around the rim. On defense, the guy does a great job of positioning and even drawing charges. With that said, Noah is the type of player that not only does he have intangibles, but he can actually play. Even though he doesn’t have the offensive game of Bogut, he is shooting a higher percentage and by quite a bit. I can also say that I believe he has improved every year he has been in the league. Noah’s play doesn’t depend on the guy beside him. He has played well beside a limited player in Taj Gibson the last couple of years and has done well. He stepped up huge when Deng started off slow and with no Boozer to help out. The guy always seems to make big plays. Without a doubt the guy is a leader and the energy that he plays with on the court is something that fuels his teammates. Not a lot of guys have that ability to make everyone around them play better, but Noah does.

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  • #454938
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    sacphil_08
    Participant

    Is this a serious post? You guys are all saying (for the most part) that if you had the opportunity to take a big that would be a part of your formula and ‘blueprint’ to winning a championship you would take noah over bogut? Well… Bogut and noah are the same age by the way for anyone who said he was younger. Noah gets bumped around on the block, he can rebound yes and he is tenacious but at the end of the day you’re going against dwight howard or pau gasol or andrew bynum, shaq, kg etc and noah isnt going to cut it. Bogut is as good a defender if not better (he’s definitely a better shot blocker) and he wont get banged around by other bigs. His passing for a center is almost as good as it comes. Noah averages a bit more points, rebounds, and also a couple more minutes per game than bogut not to mention a much better supporting cast. Chicago is a playoff team for sure with boozer and rose being legit all stars year in year out and rose being a possible MVP candidate. The PF in milwaukee has changed from larry sanders (a rookie) to drew gooden, neither of which is very good putting more pressure on him as a post player. the injuries of bogut definitely count for something but he is only 26 and he’s missed a whopping 79 games in 5 years with one major injury. Big whoop… I think the only reason this discussion is here is because derrick rose gets alot of media attention and in the past its always been that he hasnt had alot of help, but now he does and all those guys that are his help are being completely overrated by EVERYONE. noah puts his all on the floor which is definitely honorable and i love seeing that from guys but him being better than noah is absurd. boozer is the only guy on that team besides rose worthy of an all star appearance while the rest of those guys are a little better than average and this is just more proof of that. noah is good and i wouldnt mind having him on my team but as my best big man, not a chance

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  • #454947
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    JoeWolf1

    Sacphil_8, missing 79 games in 5 years is a big deal.  Injuries have killed the careers of many promising centers and you’re telling me that when the Bucks made the playoffs for the first time since 2005-2006 and Andrew Bogut was on the bench, while Noah has consistantly played up in the playoffs doesn’t mean anything?

    It is a serious post because although Bogut is a more well rounded player and a more true center his injuries knock down his value.  I think it’s really close between these guys right now, and somone picking Noah isn’t as wildly outlandish as you think.

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  • #454949
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    Steroid
    Participant

    I was wondering if this was a serious post also.. I’d take Bogut. No question about it. Injuries is something I’d take my chances with concerning Bogut. He brings a complete package to the game for the center position.

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  • #454953
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    Meditated States
    Participant

    I would take him. But Noah does a lot of the hustle things,I agree with him being a little overrated on D. Bogut is the better defender,and offensive player when healthy. The thing is you have to like Noah cause he plays more and does not have a back injury wich is always nagging.

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  • #454954
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    joecheck88
    Participant

    if it wasnt for injuries, bogut would easily get my vote. he still does but its close. last years injury wasnt a durability issue, it was a freak thing that would have happened to anybody dunking on that particular play. and last year he had a great year. he is stronger, rebounds just as well as noah, a very good shot blocker and way better offensively. bogut gets my vote.

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  • #454958
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    sacphil_08
    Participant

    Injuries definitely have killed the careers of centers but the most games hes missed in a season is 36. if bogut played on a team where he got more touches and was a focal point of the offense (he already is on defense) he’d be a 20 and 10 player. he had the game winning tip in last nights game, he recentely had a 31 pt 18 reb effort… noah is lucky to eclipse 20. noah hustles more… thats it. and no matter what, you are biased for noah, which is fine, just be realistic. let me ask you this. if youre going into a playoff series and youre facing pau gasol or dwight howard, do you want noah going head to head with those guys or bogut? choosing noah means youre hoping that youre other guys pick up the slack he doesnt because he cant defend or score on either of those guys and bogut can do both of those things on both of those guys. and if a guy hasnt had some major knee injury or something that has sidelined him for more than half the season or some consistent issues i.e. oden and his knee(s) you take the better player. im not going to choose joe johnson over dwayne wade when they are both realtively young and wade has had injuries in the past because i fear wade will get hurt. That not a good argument at all

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  • #454962
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    JoeWolf1

     My avatar aside, I stated nothing more that it was very close between them right now because Bogut because of Bogut’s injuries,(he missed 46 games in 08-09).  If I could take Bogut with no injury history or Noah, I’d take Bogut all day, but that’s not the case. 

    If injuries aren’t a big deal, and that’s not a valid arguement, what are your opinions on Andrew Bynum and Greg Oden? You’d still take them in a heart beat over Noah because they might be healthy in the playoffs and can bang in the post.

     

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  • #454964
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    xavier328
    Participant

    Bogut….by far…..not even close…..

    Skill vs Hustle

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  • #454966
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    Counting Stars
    Participant

    I think Bogut is the more complete player right now and has the higher upside in certain areas. Looking long term, I think Bogut will probably be the better player after 30.

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  • #454982
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    sacphil_08
    Participant

    Joewolf

    the oden thing is just dumb to bring up. like i said bogut has missed a total of 99 games (i put 89 in an earlier post) and oden has only played 82 games TOTAL in his 3 year career. its not close. chicago is better in just about every position across the board and its easier for noah because of lack of defensive pressure he gets whereas bogut is expected by opposing teams to be the go to guy. he plays less minutes than noah and their numbers differ by mere tenths. with a better supporting cast like noah’s bogut would easily be an all star. please dont watch espn so much everyone. its biases you to the teams that the national media want to be good rather than the teams that are good but might be in a smaller town so they are under the radar. like joe johnson. he’s always been this good he just played in atlanta before they were relevant so no one payed attention and it wasnt til a couple years ago he got national acclaim and then everyone starts to talk about how great he is which lead to his huge contract. lets just watch the game for ourselves and make our own opinions please. and thats not to you joewolf im assuming youre a bulls fan because of your avatar and support of joakim noah and that you watch him play but everyone else who says things like noah is a younger player or throw random incorrect stats out there and let espn be their guide

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  • #454984
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    JoeWolf1

     I am a Bulls fan and since the Bucks are in the same division I watch them quite a bit as well.  I don’t feel like I’m overly biased towards Noah.  I’m well aware of his strengths and weaknesses, I just thought it would be an interesting topic due to the fact they are both up and coming young post players and one is more polished and bigger while the other is more energetic and injury free.  My whole arguement wasn’t that Noah was a no brainer, just that it’s not so absurd to put Noah in a similar category as Bogut at this point in their careers.

    I don’t think the Bulls would trade Noah straight up for Bogut and I don’t think the Bucks would trade Bogut straight up for Noah.

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  • #455074
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    Steroid
    Participant

    Looking at both players in terms of skills and basketball ability, it is ubsurd to put them in the same tier. Bogut can be a legit go to player with reliable and good defense whereas Noah will be nothing than a really good role player. The the injury factor is important, like you said, but players get injured all the time in an 82 game season, and that doesn’t take away from how good the player is. That is just something a coach and GM will have to deal with as it happens. Based on the argument for Noah that is used in this thread, any player can be just as good or better than a player who isn’t even playing because of an injury, which I find to be false. Unless Bogut happens to get an injury that alters his career, and he starts missing more than half a season’s worth of games for the rest of his career, Noah will never be a better basketball player than him.

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  • #455078
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    JNixon
    Participant

    "Bogut does all the things on the glass and the defensive end that Noah does and is a vastly superior offensive player. The only knock on Bogut is that he gets hurt every year."

    That sums it up.

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  • #455088
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    Chrischi
    Participant

    I would pick Bogut also. But while Noahs offensive game is developing Bogut isn’t even shooting 50% with less than 15ppg. That’s weak and if he isn’t getting back to his numbers last season I’d pick Noah.

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  • #455162
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    sheltwon3
    Participant

    I would take a healthy Bogut who when healthy is a top 3 Center but when is he ever healthy?

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  • #455218
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    mikeyvthedon
    Participant

    Fairy tale it is. I guess this is what I get for defending Greg Oden all of those times. I am all about taking the risk, but why do so when you do not have to? Noah has played just as well as Bogut so far this year and to those who consider Bogut a "franchise" big man, well, good luck with that. All I am saying is, I would rather have the one who does not have nagging injuries. Noah plays basketball games, more often than Bogut, that would be my deciding factor.

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  • #455219
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    Ghost01
    Participant

    Doesnt Bogut get hurt and sit in the lottery every year?

    Noah wins games and changes games with his hustle.

    On those intagibles alone, Ill take Noah. Sure, Bogut may be the better statistical player, but he isnt even as good a rebounder as Noah.

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  • #455258
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    billyk
    Participant

    Bogut is far from a franchise player in the matter of fact he is kind of overrated considering he was a number one pick… He is a career 12 ppg 9 reb player 1.4 blk, franchise players dont average 12 pts and 9 reb for their career… Bogut is a fine defensive center with good post moves, but he is a number #3 option on a championship team…

    I would personally take Noah over Bogut because Noah brings a certain level of intensity and championship pedigree you look for in a player.. I feel that may not be the offensive player Bogut is, but he makes his freethrows, finishes well and is a underrated passer.. On defense Bogut is a better shot blocker, but Noah is a more versatile defender because defends the pick and roll, can get steals, and also blocks shots…

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