[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

 I feel CP3 is overrated when people talk about him making teammates better. So my ? to you guys is if you disagree give me examples of who he has made better and back it up with facts. This is not a post to bash CP3 I just get tired of hearing he makes players better and wanted to reach out to you guys to see. Please DO NOT RESPOND saying who is better than who and who’s the best that’s not what this post is for

[DCParticipant]

 You’re not related to FastAndFurious are you?

[DCParticipant]

 You’re not related to FastAndFurious are you?

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

Lol no I am not like I said this is not intended to bash CP3 I just wanted some honest feedback about my ? that’s all

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

Lol no I am not like I said this is not intended to bash CP3 I just wanted some honest feedback about my ? that’s all

[juves4783Participant]

lob city never existed before chris paul.  his ability to penetrate and hit mid range shots, opens up lobs to deandre jordan and blake griffin.  here are some other facts.

2011-2012 clippers – 97.5 ppg, 21.0 apg

2012-2013 clippers – 101.1 ppg, 23.9 apg

2013-2014 clippers – 107.9 ppg, 24.6 apg

 

 

 

  

 

  

[juves4783Participant]

lob city never existed before chris paul.  his ability to penetrate and hit mid range shots, opens up lobs to deandre jordan and blake griffin.  here are some other facts.

2011-2012 clippers – 97.5 ppg, 21.0 apg

2012-2013 clippers – 101.1 ppg, 23.9 apg

2013-2014 clippers – 107.9 ppg, 24.6 apg

 

 

 

  

 

  

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

I didn’t ask about ppg that didn’t go up only because of CP3 my question was who has he made BETTER which he is often give credit for? We all knew the older the clippers got the better they would become that’s like giving credit to Scott Brooks for the thunder becoming good after they started growing up.

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

I didn’t ask about ppg that didn’t go up only because of CP3 my question was who has he made BETTER which he is often give credit for? We all knew the older the clippers got the better they would become that’s like giving credit to Scott Brooks for the thunder becoming good after they started growing up.

[FourParticipant]

Fair question and I’m not sure exactly what you are looking for I suppose – do you mean "what were David West’s stats when we played with CP3 as opposed to without him"?  Just want to make sure I understand the question.

But in terms of why I think he makes teams better I think the best indicator is team records.  In his last year with the Hornets:

Hornets – 46-36 and Clippers – 32-50

In his first year with the Clippers:

Clippers – 40-26 and Hornets 21-45

I admit that I did not compare rosters so I don’t recall what other changes might have been made.  And of course the Clipper increase has a lot to do with Blake’s development.  But I feel pretty confident that CP3 was the only really significant change on those teams.

[FourParticipant]

Fair question and I’m not sure exactly what you are looking for I suppose – do you mean "what were David West’s stats when we played with CP3 as opposed to without him"?  Just want to make sure I understand the question.

But in terms of why I think he makes teams better I think the best indicator is team records.  In his last year with the Hornets:

Hornets – 46-36 and Clippers – 32-50

In his first year with the Clippers:

Clippers – 40-26 and Hornets 21-45

I admit that I did not compare rosters so I don’t recall what other changes might have been made.  And of course the Clipper increase has a lot to do with Blake’s development.  But I feel pretty confident that CP3 was the only really significant change on those teams.

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

My question isn’t about stats it’s about who has he made better as in without him they wouldn’t be who they were. Ala Rondo to Perkins or LeBron to anybody in Cleveland that’s what I meant by who has he made better. Nobody has yet to answer my question just got negged and people throw out team scoring and assists. 

[OhCanada-Participant]

He made the whole organization better. The team, its players, coaches, fans, management, made the owner a better amount of money until he messed up. Paul makes everybody around him better. Why is this being debated. Look at the stats posted above thats all that is needed as an example.

[OhCanada-Participant]

He made the whole organization better. The team, its players, coaches, fans, management, made the owner a better amount of money until he messed up. Paul makes everybody around him better. Why is this being debated. Look at the stats posted above thats all that is needed as an example.

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

My question isn’t about stats it’s about who has he made better as in without him they wouldn’t be who they were. Ala Rondo to Perkins or LeBron to anybody in Cleveland that’s what I meant by who has he made better. Nobody has yet to answer my question just got negged and people throw out team scoring and assists. 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

10 career APG is all the fact you need. Only players with higher career APG than that? Magic and Stockton. 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

And though that mark will go down when he gets older, he still will finish top 5 in that category by the end of his career I believe.

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

Yes he has a very high apg average and him and John Stockton are the same they run P&R every play so of course thier numbers are going to be great they would either score lots of points or get tons of assists but 0 rings and a lot of playoff disappointment. You still didn’t answer my question though I said I DON’T CARE about RANKINGS who has he made better its an easy question to understand

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 Well, David West is a perfect example.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

 Well, David West is a perfect example.

[Russell0WestbrookParticipant]

Yes he has a very high apg average and him and John Stockton are the same they run P&R every play so of course thier numbers are going to be great they would either score lots of points or get tons of assists but 0 rings and a lot of playoff disappointment. You still didn’t answer my question though I said I DON’T CARE about RANKINGS who has he made better its an easy question to understand

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

And though that mark will go down when he gets older, he still will finish top 5 in that category by the end of his career I believe.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

10 career APG is all the fact you need. Only players with higher career APG than that? Magic and Stockton. 

[Bob BallParticipant]

the first person that comes to mind is tyson Chandlier. CP3 found away to make tyson a treat offensivly same thing he has done for Jordan for the clippers.  I also strongly belive playing with Cp3 helped improve David West i have no proof but i think playing with a great leader like cp3 helped West be able to go tothe pacers and be a leader. 

[Bob BallParticipant]

the first person that comes to mind is tyson Chandlier. CP3 found away to make tyson a treat offensivly same thing he has done for Jordan for the clippers.  I also strongly belive playing with Cp3 helped improve David West i have no proof but i think playing with a great leader like cp3 helped West be able to go tothe pacers and be a leader. 

[nbafan519Participant]

 I get that paul just had a pretty poor series and I realize he really has not received much criticism, if any throughout his career but of course he makes his teammates better. He is a true point guard that gets everyone on his team involved. I don’t know how many people truly appreciate what these guys do in terms of reading and picking apart defenses designed to stop them. It really annoys me when people say anyone can just run pick and rolls, throw it up, and allow blake or jordan to go get it. He does so much more than that, he sees if his man goes under the screen, reads the rotations, knows when its time to score or not. He has to know who has the hot hand and how and when his shooters like to catch the ball. On top of all this you cannot argue his leadership skills, any player he has played with can attest to how great of a leader he is. 

I wish I knew how to post links here but just youtube any chris paul highlights and watch how he gets other players great looks (not including alley oops to griffin or jordan)

A good one is against the spurs two years ago, he had 36 and 11. I say this one because he really gets his shooters involved off of pick and rolls and it is not just lobs. 

As to specific examples of players he makes better, I would just say almost anyone he has played with. Even if only in the sense that they get good looks in rhythm (for shooters), timely lobs, or just benefit from his leadership. 

I’m not denying that he performed poorly this series. He definitely deserves a lot of blame. And it does not look good for him that in 9 years he still hasn’t gotten out of the second round. I’m also not claiming he is the best point guard in the league, guys like westbrook, parker, etc. are all right up there with him. I just want to make sure people are aware of just the amount of mastery it takes to run the point guard position like guys like him do.  

[nbafan519Participant]

 I get that paul just had a pretty poor series and I realize he really has not received much criticism, if any throughout his career but of course he makes his teammates better. He is a true point guard that gets everyone on his team involved. I don’t know how many people truly appreciate what these guys do in terms of reading and picking apart defenses designed to stop them. It really annoys me when people say anyone can just run pick and rolls, throw it up, and allow blake or jordan to go get it. He does so much more than that, he sees if his man goes under the screen, reads the rotations, knows when its time to score or not. He has to know who has the hot hand and how and when his shooters like to catch the ball. On top of all this you cannot argue his leadership skills, any player he has played with can attest to how great of a leader he is. 

I wish I knew how to post links here but just youtube any chris paul highlights and watch how he gets other players great looks (not including alley oops to griffin or jordan)

A good one is against the spurs two years ago, he had 36 and 11. I say this one because he really gets his shooters involved off of pick and rolls and it is not just lobs. 

As to specific examples of players he makes better, I would just say almost anyone he has played with. Even if only in the sense that they get good looks in rhythm (for shooters), timely lobs, or just benefit from his leadership. 

I’m not denying that he performed poorly this series. He definitely deserves a lot of blame. And it does not look good for him that in 9 years he still hasn’t gotten out of the second round. I’m also not claiming he is the best point guard in the league, guys like westbrook, parker, etc. are all right up there with him. I just want to make sure people are aware of just the amount of mastery it takes to run the point guard position like guys like him do.  

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

This question seemed to blow everyone’s mind. It is kind of funny reading the responses, because they don’t answer the question. . . but I think it’s difficult to do.

Most of us would agree that CP3 is a very good PG and making those around you better is intrinsic to that. If you want to break it down though, what does it mean to make other players better? Does it mean make the team better? Not necessarily. Does it mean assists? Not necessarily. How would you go about proving it? Increase in talent or scoring of teammates? Not necessarily. 

You could say MJ made everybody around him better because of his competitive nature, but how do you prove that, the way you are looking for? You could compare numbers of when he was there versus when he wasn’t, but those could be attributed to his talent leaving, not his ability to make people better.

You could say CP3 makes players better because he allows Griffin and Jordan better looks and lanes to the hoop. Or he draws the attention and focus of defenses, so he helps their talent in that regard. But then it can be argued that any good player that passes make his teammates better. CP3 would certainly qualify for that.

Perhaps making people better isn’t something that can be proven because there are no stats to back it up. Maybe it is more or less an idea or opinion. Numbers aren’t indicitive of everything; numbers don’t necessarily express LBJ’s true talent. You don’t only use numbers or stats to determine the GOAT, when you put too much stock into measurements and combine results you get burned. 

If you prove something, it is fact. MJ as GOAT isn’t fact, CP3 making his teammates better isn’t fact, because these things cannot be proven. They can however, be widely accepted as true. I think we see CP3 on the court and notice how much better the team is with him on it, and how he makes the game EASIER for other players, and just accept that he makes his teammates better.

 

 

 

 

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

This question seemed to blow everyone’s mind. It is kind of funny reading the responses, because they don’t answer the question. . . but I think it’s difficult to do.

Most of us would agree that CP3 is a very good PG and making those around you better is intrinsic to that. If you want to break it down though, what does it mean to make other players better? Does it mean make the team better? Not necessarily. Does it mean assists? Not necessarily. How would you go about proving it? Increase in talent or scoring of teammates? Not necessarily. 

You could say MJ made everybody around him better because of his competitive nature, but how do you prove that, the way you are looking for? You could compare numbers of when he was there versus when he wasn’t, but those could be attributed to his talent leaving, not his ability to make people better.

You could say CP3 makes players better because he allows Griffin and Jordan better looks and lanes to the hoop. Or he draws the attention and focus of defenses, so he helps their talent in that regard. But then it can be argued that any good player that passes make his teammates better. CP3 would certainly qualify for that.

Perhaps making people better isn’t something that can be proven because there are no stats to back it up. Maybe it is more or less an idea or opinion. Numbers aren’t indicitive of everything; numbers don’t necessarily express LBJ’s true talent. You don’t only use numbers or stats to determine the GOAT, when you put too much stock into measurements and combine results you get burned. 

If you prove something, it is fact. MJ as GOAT isn’t fact, CP3 making his teammates better isn’t fact, because these things cannot be proven. They can however, be widely accepted as true. I think we see CP3 on the court and notice how much better the team is with him on it, and how he makes the game EASIER for other players, and just accept that he makes his teammates better.

 

 

 

 

[PistonsFan22Participant]

So no stats or record improvement is good enough evidence to prove that Chris Paul makes players better?Give us a player that you think makes players much better. In fact give us who you think is the best point guard in the NBA and give us examples of how they made players better. Now once you do that we can start to give you evidence that Chris Paul does make players on his team better. We have to be able to see what kind of criteria you are using as evidence that a player makes people better if stats and record changes don’t prove anything in your eyes.

In my opinion turning the New Orleans franchise around was an act of God. How could that not be evidence that Chris Paul makes teammates better? He made David West an all star and helped him to the most productive years of his career. He led the New Orleans Hornets to 5th seed in the West with a team of David West, Tyson Chandler, and average role players. I personally don’t see any point guards out there today that could lead that Hornets team to the second round of the playoffs in the Western Conference.

Please enlighten us with proper evidence of a player that really does make his teammates much better.

[PistonsFan22Participant]

So no stats or record improvement is good enough evidence to prove that Chris Paul makes players better?Give us a player that you think makes players much better. In fact give us who you think is the best point guard in the NBA and give us examples of how they made players better. Now once you do that we can start to give you evidence that Chris Paul does make players on his team better. We have to be able to see what kind of criteria you are using as evidence that a player makes people better if stats and record changes don’t prove anything in your eyes.

In my opinion turning the New Orleans franchise around was an act of God. How could that not be evidence that Chris Paul makes teammates better? He made David West an all star and helped him to the most productive years of his career. He led the New Orleans Hornets to 5th seed in the West with a team of David West, Tyson Chandler, and average role players. I personally don’t see any point guards out there today that could lead that Hornets team to the second round of the playoffs in the Western Conference.

Please enlighten us with proper evidence of a player that really does make his teammates much better.

[A Real Canadian MountieParticipant]

Here’s a couple of players that haven’t looked as good offensively as they did playing with or being mentored by CP3:

 

DeAndre Jordan

Tyson Chandler

David West (still good now but remember that both his All-Star appearances were with CP3)

Rasual Butler

Darren Collison

 

Those are the guys I remember off the top of my head. Also, Peja extended his career playing with CP3 as a spot up 3 point shooter and freakin Julian Wright actually looked like a serviceable rotation guy (in his rookie year) thanks to Paul

[A Real Canadian MountieParticipant]

Here’s a couple of players that haven’t looked as good offensively as they did playing with or being mentored by CP3:

 

DeAndre Jordan

Tyson Chandler

David West (still good now but remember that both his All-Star appearances were with CP3)

Rasual Butler

Darren Collison

 

Those are the guys I remember off the top of my head. Also, Peja extended his career playing with CP3 as a spot up 3 point shooter and freakin Julian Wright actually looked like a serviceable rotation guy (in his rookie year) thanks to Paul

[Author]

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