Tyson Chandler ranked as NBA's *23rd* best player. These guys are losing credibility by the second.
Has anybody else been following the rankings? Let's do a prediction of the remaining top 20.
you would'nt say Tyson chandler is in the top 25 of most impactful players in the league?
He's a very good defender and great communicator/leader at that end, but he's not special like a Dwight Howard or a LeBron James. He was getting abused by both Gasol brothers during the Olympics.
He can clean up and dunk, but he's a very limited offensive player who just lacks skill at that end. He's an overrated role player who's now benefiting from NY hype...
I think he's top 35-40 maybe, but 23? That's a little too high for such a limited player.
I dunno. Is Tyson Chandler actually the 23rd best player? Probably not, but you have to consider how they ranked them. They each gave every player a rating from 1-10, averaged them, and ranked it however they fell. If they had each gone through and literally ranked them, then yeah, maybe they lost credibility. I think a ranking from this site would end up relatively the same if we did it in the same way.
josh smith (he'll be a monster next year 20-10-4)
nowitzki (getting old, still beast)
i would place rondo under love and griffin
i might have over rated harden a little, put him under aldridge. and irving's stock will sky rocket next year
you're right about him getting worked by the gasol brothers but thats the olympics. these are for the nba and i'll say this, theres not many players that can just go to anyteam and change the culture. Tyson chandler is one of those guys. he has impacted every team he's been on since after his bulls days. with out him there is no dallas championship, with out him bobcats dont make the play offs, with out him the knicks wouldnt have been a good Defensive team. I think you're under valuing tyson chandler as a whole because he's def one of our top defensive bigs we have in the league.
Chandler has not impacted every team he's been on..CP3 practically made his career in NOH, making him look like an all star but he was still not a 'impact player on that team. Sure he did good in dallas but but lets not forget he wasn't doing nothing for Charlotte(he even had a few DNPs aka benched).So what changed? the hype, anytime your playing for a big market team (LA's, NY) creditbility automoatically goes up just by popularity alone. The NBA is all about marketing nowadays and you can fall into the hype if you want. By him winning a championship in dallas helped his cause as well (ill give him credit on this one he deserved it). However, from what i remember he has been doing the same thing since his early bulls days, imo he never really improved his OVERALL game since then and for him to be put above J.Smith, cousins, Jefferson, monroe, etc. is absolutely ridiculous. Sure he is top 50 (should be in the late 30's early 40's rankings) ESPN gives this guy way too much credit (like many others). For him to be in the top 25 (which i consider elite status) is just as bogus as the rest of the rankings. Don't get me wrong he is a very good player, but just not 'elite'
I'd put Kevin Love over Bynum. Love's more durable but I know he's not the defender that Bynum is. Still, Love is so much more versatile and definitely not a drama queen (no way Bynum plays half as hard as Kevin Love did if Bynum played for the T-Wolves the last four years). Bynum will fit better in Philly and maybe this is the year he puts it all together, but I wouldn't swap Love for him. 25 and 15 no matter what the score is? I'll take it.
rankings, sports news, sports coverage, articles, blogs, editorials, sports talk shows, telecasts (recorded and live), broadcasting, sports programming, and overall entertainment value. So in perspective, Chandler at #23 sounds right.
i named 23 players, irving included. i would take all this players over chandler
there's probably more. im with IB on chandler. 35-40 seems better to me
Chandler easily ranks as high as 23. Great D plus league leading shooting percentage.
As for the Olympics, Coach K didn't play Chandler. And guess what it was a close game against Spain. I could have told Coach K that if he didn't play Chandler and Iggy he had better pop the antacids, because it was going to be a long and stressful night.
F_S, none of the guys you listed above are better than Chandler right now. Remember Linsanity? Do you think it was all J. Lin and Novak getting those wins? Chandler does a lot of good stuff out there.
under 'younger ones'?
if so, maybe some not right now, but they will be next year.
I don't think the shooting percentage means much when his range is inside five feet. Now if he's like Steve Kerr and shooting >50% from 3, then it's different.
But he's a great defender and doesn't need the ball to be effective. That in itself goes underrated and makes a Chandler-Melo duo more effective than Amare-Melo.
And I'd only take Duncan, Pierce, Garnett, and Irving over Chandler. Yes I just replied to myself. :/
I can appreciate what he brings at the defensive end. He's a communicator a la Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace. He's a very good defender and a GREAT communicator. However, I just don't think that's good enough to make him the 23rd best player in the entire league...
Did he help the Hornets? Yes, but who's team was that? Chris Paul's. Had Chris Paul not been on that team, Chandler wasn't going to take them anywhere. Chandler was injured 50% of the time with the Bobcats, so I don't know how he helped them make the playoffs.
Now, he put together a very good season in Dallas and stayed healthy. He played a huge role in their title, but Dirk Nowitzki was the Finals MVP... Not him. Why else did Cuban think he was expendable? And yes, he's helped change the defensive culture with the Knicks, along with Mike Woodson, but that team still only goes as far as Carmelo Anthony takes them.
Chandler is a very good big man and I can appreciate what he brings at the defensive end, but he's no star. I think he's become overrated big time, which usually happens with role players when they win a title. And now he has New York hype on top of that.
@F_S, you seriously think Wade is going to be a better player next year than Kobe?I have trouble seeing it when Wade showed last year that he is already starting to begin his decline and doesn't have the jumper or post game that Kobe does. I just don't see it. I'm starting to question how good Wade is going to begin over the next 3 years as his athleticism declines. He better be in the gym workin gon his jumper and footwork/countermoves in the post to prolong his career.
The 20 remaining players are:
Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Andrew Bynum, Derrick Rose, Chris Bosh, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Blake Griffin, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, Kevin Love, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Lamarcus Aldridge.
How would you rank them?
Kevin Love – No one works harder and I’m sure he can’t wait for offensive help from Roy.
Deron Williams – Ranked him below Paul because I think Paul could do more with the Nets if they switched teams.
Russell Westbrook – Expecting him to keep improving and have more assists this season.
Kobe Bryant – Expecting a drop off. Will his knees keep going another season?
Dwyane Wade – Injured throughout the playoffs and it showed. He’ll bounce back.
Carmelo Anthony – Not sold on his OIympics performance to carry over.
Steve Nash – Assists, assists, assists.
Dirk Nowitzki – Going to have to produce big for Dallas to at least be a pesky playoff out.
Rajon Rondo – Think Ainge will try and trade him again?
Pau Gasol - Going to do his same ol' thing that no one notices except for Kobe who yells at him.
Derrick Rose – Placed him this low because an ACL injury is a two-year injury (though Adrian Peterson is currently trying to prove this wrong)
Andrew Bynum – Could very well rise 5-10 spots by next season or take a dip.
Tony Parker – Had no idea where to place him. The Spurs are his team now.
Blake Griffin – Knee issue may plague him through first month of the season? Will he add more to his offensive game and finally start BLOCKING SOME SHOTS?
Lamarcus Aldridge – Feels like KG in 2005-2007.
Chris Bosh – Could probably flip the last three around.
I didn't put much into this (and I'm sure ESPN doesn't either).
What do you guys think? I feel like the first four are self-explanatory but it gets a little gray from there. Nash could be too high but he can at least shoot whereas Rondo can't, and I don't think Rose will have a monster season. He's the worst player to suffer an ACL tear.
Overall I think there's a case for a lot of players in the 5-15 area to rise or drop a few spots and I'm fine with that.
I have never once seen any other NBA player who so visibly gives such poor effort defensively and has never led his team to better than 11th place in his conference (and by the way Big Al was the lead man that year) gets so widely praised for working hard.
IF I had to guess the way *ESPN* would rank them:
1. LeBron James - MVP. Championship. Finals MVP. Gold Medal. Should've won DPOY too. It doesn't get any better.
2. Kevin Durant - Came in 2nd in MVP voting and lost the Finals, but had a great year.
3. Chris Paul - He's the best point guard in the game and has ESPN's loyalty. Sorry Rajon Rondo fans.
4. Dwight Howard - He's dropped a couple of spots due to his back injury and drama filled season.
5. Kobe Bryant - He was #7 last season, but gets back into the top five. Hopefully, he spreads the wealth this season.
6. Dwyane Wade - Last season's #3, but he wasn't really himself last season due to injuries so he drops a few spots.
7. Derrick Rose - Despite being injured, he still raises a spot because the Bulls are hopeless without him when games really matter.
8. Kevin Love - Remember... This is the way I think ESPN will rank it. The only player in the top ten without a playoff appearance or even a winning record.
9. Blake Griffin - He rises a spot desite regressing last season... Remember this is ESPN.
10. Dirk Nowitzki - Came into the season out of shape due to a championship hangover, so he drops several spots.
11. Russell Westbrook - Is he better than the point guards below him? Probably not, but that won't stop ESPN from putting him here.
12. Rajon Rondo - He believes he's the best point guard in the NBA. ESPN does not, but he still rises quite a few spots from last season.
13. Deron Williams - He falls out of the top ten, but he'll look to regain it this season.
14. Tony Parker - Had an MVP year last year, but still not getting the respect he deserves.
15. Pau Gasol - He falls a few spots, but still the most skilled big man in the game.
16. Carmelo Anthony - After not being in the top ten last season, he falls four more spots this season. Motivation.
17. Steve Nash - Drops three spots, but Lakers still have four players in top 20.
18. Andrew Bynum - He had a monster year and will now be the #1 option with the 76ers. The 76ers might be scary.
19. Chris Bosh - Numbers don't say it, but he had a better season than his first.
20. Lamarcus Aldridge - Injuries ended his season, but he still rises a spot or two.
Aren't the ranking based on predictions of next seaosn?
i just looked at the list for the first time and its god god awful.....
they have kevin martin ranked below anderson varejo...... can someone tell me how that is humanly possible
martin is at 76... varejo is at 74
If you ever wondered by ESPN's NBA coverage is so poor, just take a look at their list. It is impossible for people who watch basketball to justify these results.
I'd like to see Charles Barkley make a list for entertainment purposes. Or a similar collaboration by Charles, Shaq, Kenny, C-Webb, etc. You know, from guys who actually played in the NBA too.
16. Tony Parker
17. Carmelo Anthony
18. Chris Bosh
19. Steve Nash
20. Lamarcus Aldridge
Looks like Andrew Bynum has made a huge jump.
So let's see of the remaining fifteen, there are seven champions, another three to make it to the Finals, three to bow out in the Conference Finals, one who has not been on a team that has won a game in the second round, and another who has not so much as finished tenth in the Western Conference. Ahhh... ESPN, I would call it shameful, but they have been this way for too long.
So you would take Chris Bosh over Kevin Love just because he has a ring?
Bosh is a better player...
The only thing Love does better is rebound. People act like Bosh didn't put up big numbers when he was the lone guy on a bum team.
I'd take both Lamarcus Aldridge and Bosh over Love.
You're right about a lot of things. Like a bunch. But this is not one of them, dude.
Love is a better/stronger rebounder, but other than that... What else makes him better than Chris Bosh or Lamarcus Aldridge?
Love isn't a back to the basket player either. He's not somebody you can dump the ball to down in the low post and he's going to draw double teams/make his teammates better. He's a faceup big man who plays in the pick and pop. It's not like he's an overly skilled offensive player in regards to footwork, etc, etc.
IF he's better than Bosh or Aldridge, it's definitely not by much.
I'm just not in that group that thinks Kevin Love has somehow entered superstardom.
Love is more of a back-to-the-basket player than both Bosh and Aldridge, in my opinion. Yes, a great bunch of his shots come from pick and pop scenarios, but Aldridge and Bosh aren't far behind him in that respect.
Love developed a very effective post-up game this past season and, believe it or not, did end up drawing double-teams on a regular basis. The difference between Love's post-up game and Bosh's of Aldridge's is the fact that Love goes to a running hook while those two guys prefer the turnaround jumper (and Aldridge simply CAN'T go left). Love averaged more shots between 0-9 feet than both LA and Bosh, and it really wasn't even very close. This can be attributed in part to his newly-added post-up game. Now his stats in that respect might be inflated somewhat due to his offensive rebounding.
And let's be honest, Love probably "tries" just as "hard" as both Bosh and LA on the defensive side of the ball. He just doesn't have length and athleticism to fall back on like those two do. And if you knew that the only chance your team had at winning was if you stayed on the floor as long as possible, would you really risk fouling at a high rate? Don't misinterpret that.. Love is a bad defender, but so are Bosh and Aldridge.
I'm taking Love over those two and I lose exactly zero sleep over it.
I don't agree with you 100%, but I can respect your reasoning. I agree with quite a few things you said.
I'm just not sold on Love just yet. Especially not as a superstar.
No Love doesn't try as hard defensively. This is a fact. He is always having his head turned when he is off the ball and misses help assignments, and teams throw him in the pick and roll constantly because he doesn't step out. Watch him play before annointing him.
Prove your "fact."
You mean besides pointing out that the Timerwolves are a pitiful defensive team that is among the league's worst in opponent points in the paint and free throws allowed and asking you to pull up a tape of any Minnesota game. Heck, pull up the Gold Medal game where his head was regularly turned the wrong way when Spain went to the rim.
I could do the same thing for Bosh and Aldridge. It just so happens that they had better defensive players on their teams. Who defended on the Wolves? Was it Wesley? Barea? Or maybe Williams? They ALL sucked.
I never said Love was a good defender. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure you can quote me saying he is a bad defender. I could say that it's a fact that Love in fact DOES try as hard as those two guys, and then show you tape after tape of them looking like idiots or looking like a giant ostrich in a Heat jersey for that matter. But that wouldn't change your mind because you hate K-Love. You're the American EuropeanBaller of this site, man. But at least he's a fan of ball.
I want to hear more of your facts. :)
So let me get this straight, it is because you think Wesley Johnson stinks that Kevin Love didn't know how to play defense with Team USA? If only JJ Barea wasn't distracting him when he too was yelling at the television for Kevin Love to turn his head. You Minnesota fanboys are great.
The numbers on Minnesota's defense are clear. They give up easy points at terrible levels. The thing is, you don't deny this. You simply shift the blame onto everyone else. It is not as if there are records of Kevin Love appealing to the media when Kurt Rambis tried to hold him accountable for not moving his feet defensively. This is the same message that gets sent by every single head coach in the NBA, but winning teams and players have that message sink in.
As for Aldridge, you have to back all of one year to remember when Portland was a top ten defense. Ancient history I know. Who can remember back to 2011. Certainly that must have had nothing to do with the guy playing 40 minutes per game at the 4 and 5. It also took incredible effort on the part of any basketball fan to turn on the NBA playoffs and see the team defense of the Heat and Chris Bosh. To compare championship level defense to that of a perennial lottery team is just laughable. It is also why the length and athleticism argument is completely invalid. Udonis Haslem isn't big or athletic anymore, but he gets to the proper spot to cut off penetration and take charges. Big Baby Davis did that in Boston. Kurt Thomas in Chicago. Elton Brand in Philadelphia. One legged Tim Duncan in San Antonio. If a guy is in the right spot, he can get his hand on the ball, take a charge, force a bad pass or shot, or block a shot. When this happens, you don't see it in a single boxscore. You see it if you watch the game, if you look at the team defensive numbers over time, and also in whether they win.
Why are you referring to the Olympics when it's totally different? Tyson Chandler stunk it up and Anthony Davis of all players gave quality minutes. Chris Paul and Deron Williams were very inconsistent but that doesn't mean they're the same in the NBA. Kobe Bryant was awful until the medal round. Dwight Howard was terrible in '08. None of it translates to the NBA and players usually have better seasons after the Olympics anyway.
I brought it up because the same poor defensive effort and performance that was on display in Minnesota was on display in London. Shots can be made or missed and roles can change in differing situations, but stupid stays stupid. Kobe didn't stop taking bad, forced shots on Team USA. He took them in London just as he does in LA.
Also, you don't get to rewrite history how you choose to want it to be. Anthony Davis did not give quality minutes. He was the 12th man. He didn't play because the coaching staff, and Jim Boeheim was very up front on this, didn't think he was strong enough to guard anyone unless the US went zone or it was a blow out.
I am sorry but Love is not a better low block player than LMA. Love gets an enormous amount of points from three's at the top of the key and through put backs and FTA. He shot a bad percentage from mid rage 37% to LMA's 42% on a higher 3 of attempts (a better % then Kobe and Melo from midrange) as for his low block game Kevin Love took close to the same # of shots in the paint (139) to LMA (128) but shot a worse % (35%) to LMA's (53%). LMA is significantly more impactful on a offensive level in that he is next to unstoppable when gaurded one on one scoring 39 and 28pts on OKC's Perkins and Ibaka respectively while takings no threes while Love depends on bringing other bigs to the three point line like he did against Perk to score 50+pts. As for the can't go left comment, search Lamarcus Aldridge 30 pts vs Oklahoma City Thunder and click the first link go to the 00: 28 sec mark. I know you probably won't though.
Love needs to be set up to score and can be effectivley defended with length while LMA is one of the most skilled big men on the low block and has that hook shot that you suppose Love has even though those who have watched LMA know he goes to the basket all the time for the hookshot that Jabar himself said seems to be the only player that does that anymore (which you can find if you search Jabbar Aldridge) So please don't make uninformed comments like you did in the second paragraph of your above post as it may mislead other posters.:)
i was thinking the same thing. no way love is better than aldridge in the post
Yep, thanks for posting this.
While I do think Love played with his back to the basket more last season, there's no way in hell he's better on the low block than Aldridge. And yea, Aldridge does prefer to go right, but that doesn't mean he can't go left.
When healthy, Aldridge looks like the power forward most likely to take Dirk Nowitzki's place as the best power forward in the NBA.
I am saying a lot of players should be over him, and that I have never before seen such national praise of a career loser. You would occasionally see Bay Area people talk up Monta Ellis as being as good as Wade or Kobe. New Yorkers talked up David Lee when he was filling a fat stat line when they were terrible. Indiana people weren't as noisy, but Danny Granger got praise and paid like a star when his numbers were elite but his team was bad. Never anything like this where people just ignore the fact that the playoffs are where NBA stars are made.
It is in the playoffs where we saw Tim Duncan outplay and outclass Blake Griffin. I do not deny that Blake Griffin stuffed a stat sheet and owned highlight tapes throughout the regular season, but in May he got worked over. There was no argument over who was the better player during that series, but apparently one has to watch it to know it come next Fall. I'd be more critical of Blake Griffin's ranking if not for the fact that there is a guy who has never come close to the playoffs is being regarded by the loudest national sports media outlet as being elite. It is a joke, and it reflects incredibly poorly on the people who cover the NBA for them.
No crying in the breast milk.
My apologies. I thought Paul's Hornets lost in the Conference Finals, but it was Game 7 of the 2nd round. The point still remains about which two don't belong.
how is blake griffin rated higher then chris bosh and carmelo anthony?
Remember, these were many of the same ESPN "experts" who pondered aloud and in writing whether Carmelo Anthony could fit in with Jeremy Lin.