#1 Pick Not Barnes?
Perry Jones is up to #2 on this sites mock draft. What would guys like him, Kanter and Irving have to do this year to be the #1 pick?
Hypothetically lets say Harrison Barnes has a good but not great freshman season (maybe around 16-18 ppg) and doesnt dominate like Rose, Wall, Griffin and other top picks have recently. Who would have the best shot to challenge Barnes to be the top pick?
I say it would be Kyrie Irving... if he would lead to Duke to another championship and develop into the top PG in the nation which is a possibilty considering how strong Duke is going to be around him.
Kanter might have a chance too since legit big man prospects at #1 with potential to play Center are few and far between.
I dont think Perry Jones will dominate or be consistent enough to be the top pick but I think hell defintiely be a top 5 pick.
So I say Irving but is there anybody else with a chance if Barnes doesnt dominate like hes expected to?
Perry Jones would have to show he has a killer instinct and a will to dominate. If he had that he would go number 1.
If Perry Jones lives up to a little bit of his potential and shows good work thic and motor he will be numbber one no matter what Barnes does
I think Irving is a great talent, and I might rank him second right now, but I think a big guy has the best chance of beating out Barnes, though I do not think it will be done. Harrison Barnes is a great athlete with a great IQ for the game, prototypical size for a wing and a very advanced skill set. He has wreaked havoc against all competition he faced, including many of those mentioned above. John Wall was picked first due to his insane athleticism and great size, as well as his other abilities as a player. Harrison Barnes seems to be the standard of that in this class, as Jones has yet to show his ability to consistently dominate competition, Kanter is somewhat limited athletically and Irving, while a great player, is not on the athletic level of a Paul, Wall or Jennings. To me, John Wall did what was expected, he put up great numbers and led a great team, but he was not on the level of Blake Griffin the year before (though was well ahead of him his freshman year). I think Evan Turner does not possess the athleticism of Brandon Roy, whom he is often compared too, and does not have the same offensive ability as far as scoring. Derrick Favors still has a long ways to go to show he is more than a very impressive athlete and DeMarcus Cousins has a boat load of issues to overcome. Those were Wall's competition, and none really set them self apart to overtake a player who has been consistently great. I think the same thing will happen with Harrison Barnes, who even if he averages 16-18, will more than likely grab the first pick. John Wall after all averaged 16.6 ppg, which was good enough to get him first team All-American status and conference POY. He put up solid overall statistics, but Harrison will do that as well, watch him average close to the upside of 8 boards, 3 assists and a steal/block or two. As far as Irving, Jones and Kanter go, they will all have to have MONSTER seasons to move ahead of Harrison Barnes, with Kanter or Jones being the most likely to really push for the top spot. However, in the end, I just do not see either of them putting up much of a fight as Barnes is just straight up the most solid prospect and the most likely to reach his high potential.
id say jones if he showed a high motor but i doubt that happens..i cant recall anyone whos always had a ok motor then the next year had a high motor
i dont think katner will since hes struggled this summer against older college big men
i dont see kyrie going number one because of all the talent he has on his team
basically its barnes to lose unless someone out the blue steps up (my dark hoarse being tobias harris)
another reason i dont think anyone takes the spot from barnes is because unlike other picks his game isnt just off of jumping higher or running faster then other guys..he can do both pretty well but the kid has SKILLS AND A HIGH BASKETBALL IQ and playes very good defense. he can either play within a team concept or be the star leading a team. he can drive,post,midrange,deep three can you say the same thing about any of the other guys?
Only was he isn't number 1 is if he doesnt enter...People learned from the Oden Debacle. If you have a guy that could be a superstar, and a guy that will be a superstar....You take the sure thing.
Barnes is the closest thing to a superstar Lock I've seen since Lebron. Not just because of the physical, but because of how hard you can tell he works. He literally has no big holes in his game, and he is 18. He measured 6'7.25 with shoes on and a 7 foot wingspan. 210 pounds. Those are almost identical measurables to Lebron in high school.
His game is more Kobe to me. He has a killer instinct, he is in great physical shape, and he is going to be the absolute best he can be, no doubts about him reaching his vast potential. Barnes is a sure thing.
Jones is far from it. He can easily be Jonathon Bender. Some guys just aren't that driven, well coached, passionate, or sometimes even smart. You can't teach a kid to want it.
I think Kanter might have a shot, but I'd say his biggest competition might come from Jan Vessely, who is a freakshow athlete and already proven at a high level of ball.
I just don't think Jones will dominate at the college level. He has the potential to be a great scorer and great NBA player, but i just don't think he will dominate at the collge level. If he displays a high amount of effort during his freshman year, I think he could dominate, but I doubt he shows that effort. My projected stats for him as a freshmen are:
13 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg, 1.5 bpg, and 1 spg.
I definitely think he will get drafted in the top 5 though.
And I think Barnes stays at #1.
I would lean Kanter and Jones if he's picked over anyone.
To be honest, I think it's Kanter. He's very good from what I seen. He has his struggles like Stanford said but I think he's gonna be very good at UK, Cal's gonna coach him up and I see high upside in him.
Even if Barnes put up 17-18PPG this season, scouts will include in consideration the other scorers he had on his team. As long as he stays consistent, lead UNC deep in the tournament, I think he will stay #1 pick. Derrick Rose put up average numbers compare to Michael Beasley's destruction of Big 12, and he was still the #1 pick because he was composed and stay consistent during the tournament.
Derrick Rose put up average numbers compare to Michael Beasley's destruction of Big 12, and he was still the #1 pick because he was composed and stay consistent during the tournament.
Derrick Rose was not the #1 pick before the tournament. Beasley was #1 the whole season and I remember like Brook Lopez, DeAndre Jordan, Donte Greene and OJ Mayo were in the top 5 in most places I saw. Rose was around the 6th spot.
Rose was number 2 almost all season. DeAndre Jordan was 3rd. Then Jordan slipped near the end of the season and after the tourney when Memphis became Roses' team, and took them to the NC that is when he went up to number 1. The first part of what Mr. Knick said is correct.
Yes thats what I was referring to with Rose, Beasley was projected the #1 pick during the season and before the tournament, but Rose catapulted himself to the #1 pick with his performances during the tournament and sealed it from there.
Thats basically what Barnes has to do, he just needs to prove that hes a "big game player" which everyone knows he is, and you do that in tournament and leading UNC to a deep run, just like Rose did.
leading you're team far in the tournament helps.. another dark hoarse is brandon knight. he was actually ranked higher then kyrie before the after season allstar games( which makes no sense to me how someone can get ranked higher after allstar performances which is no different then play ground basketball) but people seem to put too much emphasis on those games just like last year when favors played well and people were saying he could have a micheal beasley year
All Star events lead to ranking changes too much. In football if you have a good Army All American game you can go from 10 to 1 just from that.
Rose was number 2 almost all season.
No he wasn't. I remember 7-10 guys being thrown around in the Preseason. Beasley, Rose, Augustine, Lopez, Jordan, Greene, Gordon, Love and Hibbert. The Big Euro was Gallo in there. Rose was in the 6th range. I remember.
Then Westbrook, Alexander and Randolph's stock rose during the season while Greene, Jordan dropped.
If I had to make a top 5 pre NCAA Tourney..it would be
Beasley, Love, Mayo, Gordon, Lopez. Those were the 5 guys IMO and Rose was 6th.
i dont remember love ever being considered for number 2. i do remember mayo and gordan before his injury being considered. i remember rose being considered in the 3-5 range in the beginning of the season
matter of fact i think in the beginning it was bj mullans and a mix of some euro guy,d.jordan, beasley
Rose was 2 on this site almost the whole season. BJ Mullens was the next year, he wasn't in Roses' class I think.
Barnes: 20,2 ppg 6,5 rpg 2,8 apg 1,5 spg 1 bpg
Jones: 15,3 ppg 9,1 rpg 3,1 apg 1,3 spg 2,4 bpg
Kanter: 14 ppg 10 rpg 1,5 apg 0,8 spg 2 bpg
Irving: 15 ppg 3,3 rpg 5,5 apg 2,1 spg 0,2 bpg
I'm not saying Love was #2, I'm saying in that talk of "He's a top 5 lock" Love was probably 2 to me. I do remember Gordon and Mayo getting the hype too before Gordon's injury.
that was based on the owner of this sites opinion. im guessing everyone is talking about the concensous slot he was slated at.
So true, Gordon was getting really hyped up early because his 3 ball was automatic and he was dominating with DJ White. Then he cooled down/got hurt.
Rose was 2 on this site almost the whole season. BJ Mullens was the next year, he wasn't in Roses' class I think.
Yes he was #2 here. But some other places had him in the 3-8 range. Alot had him like 6th because the Bucks were in the range. I remember because I remember doing the lotto thing ESPN does lol
Oh I was basing mine just off this site haha. My bad Mr. knick.
Pro potential - Both should be highly ranked coming out of college. Both will most likely be one and done. Rose is a 6'3-6'4 pure pg with amazing athletic ability, defensive prowess, and clutch mentality. Mayo is a 6'5 combo guard who has a tendency to play erraticly but still can get anywhere on the court he wants to. Mayo has a sometimes silky smooth jumper. Rose has a streaky shot that is improving steadily. Rose will play in a pro arena next year on a team that will be ranked number 1, play a top schedule, and is coached by a popular former NBA coach. Mayo will play in L.A. for one of the most prestigious schools in the country in a brand new arena. Mayo is touted as a future top 7 pick. Rose is viewed by most as the undisputed number 1 pick. -iballforreal.com aug 2007
Did I just see someone say Jan Vesley? Cmon Now.
Anyways, I think Barnes will be the number 1 pick for the upcoming season.
Kanter has a chance, but to me he has alot to prove. Perry Jones is a top 5 lock regardless just because of his potential, even if he doesn't dominate this season. Brandon Knight is a wildcard to be a top five pick right now, But I think he will end up proving that he is a worthy top 5 pick.
It will most likely be barnes he has the total package on and off the court unless perry jones has a good year and shows he has somewhat of a killer instinct and plays with a high motor, he also has the most potential. The only reason i would say kyrie wouldnt go number one is because when in nba history has a 6'1 pg gone number one in the draft regardless of how good they (exeption allen iverson) are hes an amazing talent but usually when pg are picked number one they are freakish atheltes and around 6'3 6'4 like rose and wall but you never know he is good enough and if he has a great season at duke its a possibility. I cannot see knter going number one i dont see that much upside for him on the nba level
I have never seen perry jones put on a show I have wtached him play 3 to four times.This site and mnay other scouts say he doesnt play the way he should with the skill set he has. Bottomline perry is Incosistent and if you look at th elast couple players with his size and skill set they showed flashes of what could be but never lived up to the hype the last one to do it was durant
What about Brandon Knight? Everyones talking about Kanter and Big Blue, what happens if (when) Knight Averages 17-20 points, 4-5 rebounds, and 5-6 assists, with excellent defense? I think once the season starts Knight will leapfrog Irving as the top point prospect.
But Barnes has such a sound skillset with excellent post footwork and jabsteps and fakes. He's got quite a bit of Carmelo and Kobe in his game, its really just a matter of who plays best.
to the guy who said Jones wont dominate in College in Addidas Nations agaisnt other top collegiate players he dominated so he has all the potential to dominate
because brandon knight did not have a good open gym...oops i mean McDonald's all American/allstar circut game. For some strange reason alot of people put wayyy to much emphasis on these games and ignore what a player has done through out there highschool career. before those games knight was the number one pg and that included highschool games, aau,games, all American camp games. personally i dont put these allstar games in high regards because its allstar games/open gym. you have a good game in those and all of a sudden youre way better then what you really are and jump up in the rankings (johnathan bender,j.r smith)
i said it last year and ill say it again ..brandon knight is the best pg in this class. he's shown to be a very good passer when he didnt have to score while playing with that florida aau team when him and boyton were together( watched him get 13 or more assist for 3 straight games while playing very good defense) but he can also score and rebound
i do think kyrie is very good and the second best pg though but i think alot of people are setting him up to fail with all the expectations(which once again werent this high before the allstar circut games)...How soon we forget what happened when most of the people hyped favors as the next beasley in college last year...................
No he didn't dominate at Adidas's he had some good moments and played well but didn't dominate. once again that's a allstar/camp setting its not college basketball with strategies,set defenses,plays and great coaching
Perry Jones will get like 13 ppg, 6 or 7 rpg, 2apg and a bpg next year. He's probably the most naturally talented player in college basketball, but I think he's going to put up modest numbers relative to that. I think it'll take him a year or 2 in the NBA before he gets more aggressive. He's not a likely top pick IMO, but he could be.
I think it's between Jones, Irving, and Kanter as to who could take the #1 spot from Barnes.
I think the seasons for these guys will be:
Jones- 13 ppg, 6 or 7 rpg, 2 apg, and1 bpg on near 50% from the floor.
Kanter- 14 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 apg, 1 bpg, and near 60% from the floor
Irving- 14 ppg,6 apg, 2 topg, 2 spg, mid 40% from the field, high 30% from 3
barnes numbers- 18-20ppg 5-7ast 2stls 44%fg 40%3
tobias harris- 17-22ppg 8-10reb 3,4ast 1.6blks 53%fg 35% 3
Barnes- 16 ppg, 7 rpg, 2 apg, 1 spg, 1 bpg. Mid 40% from the field, mid 30% 3-point shooter.
Harris- 15 ppg, 8 rpg, 1 bpg, 2 apg, mid 50% from the field, low 30% 3-point shooter
oops i ment to say knight not barnes
also not sure if you ahev watched tobias's games but hes a mid 30 three point shooter at least
kyrie 10-12ppg 5ast 40%fg 30% 3
katner-14ppg 8reb 48%fg
jones-10ppg 6-7reb 3fouls a game(low defense IQ)
Sullinger-18ppg 9-11reb 1blk 50 or above fg%
pretty optimistic for unproven freshman
"pretty optimistic for unproven freshman"
No. Optimistic would be what you predicted for Reggie Bullock. "Bullock will suprise everyone next year and be top freshman in the ACC and average 16 ppg: (http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/reggie-bullock)
Told you I'd hold you to that...
lol yeah you got me there but the chances Tobias Harris scores 22 10 are ridicilous and Reggie Bullock will average 16 or around there but probably wont be top freshman in the ACC but will one of the top freshman in the ACC
He won't average 16 ppg, that's the thing though lol. He'll probably average like 9-10 ppg next year.
Harris isn't going to be a 22-10 guy I don't think though. Stanfordhoops said that, and those where his max totals
youre right they are unproven but you have to look at it like this
what options will they have on the team?...whats there skill level?
take kyrie for instance...very good player but what other options does duke have?..nolan smith,singler,the plummlees, andre dawkins,seth...there arent many points to go around on that team
barnes doesnt have as many options on his team
sullinger has options but he's such a beast downlow and will probably be on that foul line alot and play alooot of minues
tobias is just wayyy to skilled and will get all the touches he want
knight is gonna be playing with a bunch of young players and the older ones dont have much say on the team so its gonna be his team from day one with the ball in his hands on top of the dribble drive offense being perfect for him
reggie has to share with 3 potential first round/lott picks...tyler zeller,barnes,henson..on top of a improved dexter strickland
Jones has a pretty good supporting cast around him...actually a damn good one on top of not having a high motor
yeah his max numbers...thats how good he is.. as skilled as barnes is as a sg/sf thats how skilled tobias is as a sf/pf. the kid is that good...been watching him for a couple years now( because maryland was high on his list sinc ehis freshman year)...as a freshman he was ranked number one in some rankings but gained weight and didnt work that hard. after dropping he started working his A$$ off and got better every year..his range got deeper. his skill set got better. he hates getting beat on defense. He remind sme of beasley so much its scarey and with scotty hopson doing god knows what next year( the kid is so talented yet he plays like hes average) i wouldnt be suprised if tobias gets those numbers
one freshman who should be mentioned is dwight powell out in stanford... not just because he's good but theres not one other returning player on that team outside of green who can score 8ppg consistantly
You said optimistic for an unproven freshman, but declare Jones a lock for number one if he tries just a little bit? Jones is going to have to work a little harder than a little bit to outplay any of these guys. This is a player that goes through stretches where for 10-15 minute a game, he wont do ANYTHING! He wont rebound, he wont block shots, he wont score. If he average any stat other than assists and 3pt% higher than Derrick Favors, I will be surprised. He's got the physical profile, but he's going to be so thouroughly outplayed by his more aggressive classmates that its going to be hard taking him number one. His bust factor is way too high. He's going to, based on PRODUCTION ALONE look like at best the 5th best SF prospect from this class, because I think Barnes, Harris, Leslie and Terrence Jones will look like better players on the court.
Hes right though perry wont have to do much to be a top 2 pick because of his potential....he's the type of player thats gonna make a team look very good or very bad by drafting him so high because of potential
yeah but i never said jones was going to average 22 10 and Tobias is good but not that good and Jones if he lives up to any potential will be a top 5 pick at worst and they are all unproven and until they play we cant say anything but if Tobias Harris averages 22 10 then he will be an all american an hes just not that good yet
Barnes has been a consensus number 1 pick for 2011 draft since those mocks first started maybe last summer and with his basketball IQ and all round game there is perhaps limited downside and risk in taking him at number 1. This site has compared him to Grant Hill so that shows how much potential he may have.
Irving and Kanter have big stages and can enhance their draft potential with good seasons and both have top coaches to help them.
Perry Jones has intriguging size and off the scale athleticism but could he lead a team the way Barnes does is my question but he is surely a top 5 pick at worse.
Motiejunas may be a darkhorse to go top 3 but I cannot see him beating an NCAA standout to top place in the draft.
tobias not that good?...have you ever watched tobias play?..20-10 is definatly out of the question for him
of course jones cant put up those numbers because he doesnt have the motor nor is he as skilled as tobias. just more athletic
I cannot see Harris as the #1 pick. Watching him play live, he's alright. I heard some people compared him to LeBron.
He's a lotto pick to me at best.
comparing him to lebron is pushing it though..lol...his game isalot like beasly's except hes a harder worker and a lil more athletic with better handles. same nice midrange that exends to the three point line.