This topic contains 16 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Scott42444 12 years ago.

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  • #56690
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    jonus grumby
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    Many sites say that Houston is in play for adding a big name and big salary player.  OK I get that they would like to do this but they have a couple of big problems.  Asik and Lin.  Sites say they just need to trade those two and then they will have money to spend.  My question is why would a team bail Houston out of those to bad contracts?  Lin and Asik are both due to be paid almost $15 million next year.  That is above market value for each of those.  So why would a team want them.  Not only are the contracts bad but neither player is the one missing piece from a championship team where a team might say if we only had Asik we would be finals ready.  Also the other teams have to know what Houston is up to so if they have any dream of landing a FA they surely are not going to give Houston more cap space because that would open up another team they would be competing against to get a big name player.  I mean why give up something and then have to pay Asik or Lin $15 million when you can get LeBron or Melo or Bosh for ~$20 million without giving Houston anything?

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  • #925304
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    Captain L
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     Take a team like the Jazz, they would consider taking a player like Lin and his contract if Houston would then give up draft picks, at least one 1st rounder (if not more) , the idea is to accumulate assets, the Jazz will need to fill roster spots and Lin is a good point and  would fit well behind Burke, last yr the Jazz did the same with GS and took on 3 contracts, Beidrins, Jefferson & Rush. The Jazz needed backup players plus each team needs to get to a certain salary level.  This same senario could happen with other teams like the Bulls, I wouldn’t mind the Jazz taking Dunlevy and his contract for pick 16 or 19 in this yrs draft, the Bulls may be willing to do that if they need to dump salaries to get Melo.

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    • #925559
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      Scott42444
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      Dunleavy’s contract is below market value and expires after this upcoming season.  The Bulls wouldn’t need to trade an asset away to dump that contract.  They would more than likely obtain a future 2nd rounder if they traded him.  Quite a few contenders would be very happy to add Dunleavy for only $3,000,000.  He would be similar to role players like Battier, Miller, etc. for the Heat.  Taj Gibson is also signed to a below market contract.  Heck, Noah is signed to a below market contract.  It was different in 2010 and the Hinrich trade.  In 2015, there are going to be A LOT of free agents that almost every team in the NBA would desire so there will be less teams willing to take on a player like Hinrich without shipping back salary in return.  The Bulls didn’t just dump Hinrich, they also dumped their first rounder (which ended up being the underwhelming Kevin Seraphin) in order to stay under the salary cap as much as they possibly could.  

      In response to the OP, I think that Asik has actual value even with his Poison Pill contract. Lin however will probably have to be traded with an asset.  Probably not as much will have to be given away.  I don’t think it will be Ben Gordon-esque and a Top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be shipped out.  But, I do believe a future protected 1st might have to be packaged with Lin because his contract is terrible (even though it is expiring after this season, I don’t think that he will be a lock to be a part of anyone’s future plans like Asik might be since Asik is a legit starting center in the NBA).  Before the 2010 free agency period, you saw expiring contracts reach their peak value.  I don’t believe with the new CBA we will ever see that again, where contracts were being traded with blatant disregard to the talent attached to that contract. But, there will be value THIS year in anticipation of the LOADED free agent class of 2015.  I think that the Knicks will find takers for Chandler, Bargnani, etc. if they are looking to add late 1sts and 2nd rounders.  I think that Carlos Boozer will actually have value at this year’s trade deadline if he isn’t amnestied by the Bulls.  Players signed to above market contracts but still can contribute will actually have value.

       

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    • #925430
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      Scott42444
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      Dunleavy’s contract is below market value and expires after this upcoming season.  The Bulls wouldn’t need to trade an asset away to dump that contract.  They would more than likely obtain a future 2nd rounder if they traded him.  Quite a few contenders would be very happy to add Dunleavy for only $3,000,000.  He would be similar to role players like Battier, Miller, etc. for the Heat.  Taj Gibson is also signed to a below market contract.  Heck, Noah is signed to a below market contract.  It was different in 2010 and the Hinrich trade.  In 2015, there are going to be A LOT of free agents that almost every team in the NBA would desire so there will be less teams willing to take on a player like Hinrich without shipping back salary in return.  The Bulls didn’t just dump Hinrich, they also dumped their first rounder (which ended up being the underwhelming Kevin Seraphin) in order to stay under the salary cap as much as they possibly could.  

      In response to the OP, I think that Asik has actual value even with his Poison Pill contract. Lin however will probably have to be traded with an asset.  Probably not as much will have to be given away.  I don’t think it will be Ben Gordon-esque and a Top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be shipped out.  But, I do believe a future protected 1st might have to be packaged with Lin because his contract is terrible (even though it is expiring after this season, I don’t think that he will be a lock to be a part of anyone’s future plans like Asik might be since Asik is a legit starting center in the NBA).  Before the 2010 free agency period, you saw expiring contracts reach their peak value.  I don’t believe with the new CBA we will ever see that again, where contracts were being traded with blatant disregard to the talent attached to that contract. But, there will be value THIS year in anticipation of the LOADED free agent class of 2015.  I think that the Knicks will find takers for Chandler, Bargnani, etc. if they are looking to add late 1sts and 2nd rounders.  I think that Carlos Boozer will actually have value at this year’s trade deadline if he isn’t amnestied by the Bulls.  Players signed to above market contracts but still can contribute will actually have value.

       

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  • #925433
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    Captain L
    Participant

     Take a team like the Jazz, they would consider taking a player like Lin and his contract if Houston would then give up draft picks, at least one 1st rounder (if not more) , the idea is to accumulate assets, the Jazz will need to fill roster spots and Lin is a good point and  would fit well behind Burke, last yr the Jazz did the same with GS and took on 3 contracts, Beidrins, Jefferson & Rush. The Jazz needed backup players plus each team needs to get to a certain salary level.  This same senario could happen with other teams like the Bulls, I wouldn’t mind the Jazz taking Dunlevy and his contract for pick 16 or 19 in this yrs draft, the Bulls may be willing to do that if they need to dump salaries to get Melo.

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  • #925306
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    xJumpManx
    Participant

     Lebron is not going to Houston. He will not play with Howard. 

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  • #925435
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    xJumpManx
    Participant

     Lebron is not going to Houston. He will not play with Howard. 

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  • #925442
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    CavFanPR
    Participant

    They would have to give up valuable assets to get rid of those players for a chance at LeBron or Carmelo. We all know how that worked for the Chicago Bulls in 2010.

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  • #925312
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    CavFanPR
    Participant

    They would have to give up valuable assets to get rid of those players for a chance at LeBron or Carmelo. We all know how that worked for the Chicago Bulls in 2010.

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  • #925444
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    gnay188
    Participant

    Lin and Asik have a cap hit of ~$8.4 million, but are scheduled to get paid ~$15 million this year. They are those poison pill contracts that allowed teams to save money the first two years but really load it on the back end.

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  • #925314
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    gnay188
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    Lin and Asik have a cap hit of ~$8.4 million, but are scheduled to get paid ~$15 million this year. They are those poison pill contracts that allowed teams to save money the first two years but really load it on the back end.

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  • #925446
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    DipoTime
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    Can we please put this to rest? Even though they are both going to be paid 15 million this year, when you trade them you only take 8.4 million into account. Even though that is still somewhat high for the type of players you would be receiving, it’s almost half of what people assume it is. Also, they only have 1 year left so they could be flipped to other teams as a way to reduce salary. 

    As far as why other teams would take these two.. Lin is a great teammate. He brings passion to the game. He isn’t as good as people thought, but he is still a very solid pg. Asik is a rebounding machine. He is a GREAT pick n roll defender and a good shot blocker as well. Both of these players have shown that in the right system they are more than capable of being starters. 

    If I am trying to make a push for the playoffs and need some depth at the 1 or 5 I would give both of these guys a good hard look. I actually think they both would be a great for Miami, with Chalmers and Birdman being free agents. Lin is an upgrade over Chalmers imo and Asik could start and let Bosh (assuming he stays) to play the 4 full time. Now I am not saying the Heat can or will go after these two, but even a championship caliber team could really use these two.

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  • #925316
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    DipoTime
    Participant

    Can we please put this to rest? Even though they are both going to be paid 15 million this year, when you trade them you only take 8.4 million into account. Even though that is still somewhat high for the type of players you would be receiving, it’s almost half of what people assume it is. Also, they only have 1 year left so they could be flipped to other teams as a way to reduce salary. 

    As far as why other teams would take these two.. Lin is a great teammate. He brings passion to the game. He isn’t as good as people thought, but he is still a very solid pg. Asik is a rebounding machine. He is a GREAT pick n roll defender and a good shot blocker as well. Both of these players have shown that in the right system they are more than capable of being starters. 

    If I am trying to make a push for the playoffs and need some depth at the 1 or 5 I would give both of these guys a good hard look. I actually think they both would be a great for Miami, with Chalmers and Birdman being free agents. Lin is an upgrade over Chalmers imo and Asik could start and let Bosh (assuming he stays) to play the 4 full time. Now I am not saying the Heat can or will go after these two, but even a championship caliber team could really use these two.

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    • #925507
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      jonus grumby
      Participant

      I don’t see how Miami is going to take on either of those salaries?  That’s my point.  A team that could use either of those players in a championship push is likely to not have cap space and the teams that do have cap space are likely not in a position to win a championship with or without either of those players.

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    • #925377
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      jonus grumby
      Participant

      I don’t see how Miami is going to take on either of those salaries?  That’s my point.  A team that could use either of those players in a championship push is likely to not have cap space and the teams that do have cap space are likely not in a position to win a championship with or without either of those players.

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    • #925477
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      Scott42444
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      You are correct in saying that the $15 million is basically irrelevant.  The only way that number counts against the cap is if Chicago and New York would have matched the contract offers.  Since they didn’t, the cap number is $8.5 million (or whatever the real number is, that’s the ballpark number).  Of course, the team trading FOR these players will have to pay Lin an actual salary of $15 million for the season.  Many owners could care less about that, but there ARE some owners like Jerry Reinsdorf who would be quite reluctant to pay the extra cash (even though he gets a sometimes unfair reputation as being overly cheap, he doesn’t like to throw money away…which is pretty bad business, but sometimes neccessary in this very strange business model that is the NBA).

      I personally do get confused on trading these contracts though.  Does the money have to match the cap hit or the salary number?  Meaning, does Houston have to take back only $8.5 million for Lin in salary/cap number or do they have to take back $15 million?  From what I have read, it’s $8.5 million in and $8.5 million out for each guy but I am not 100% on that.

       

       

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    • #925607
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      Scott42444
      Participant

      You are correct in saying that the $15 million is basically irrelevant.  The only way that number counts against the cap is if Chicago and New York would have matched the contract offers.  Since they didn’t, the cap number is $8.5 million (or whatever the real number is, that’s the ballpark number).  Of course, the team trading FOR these players will have to pay Lin an actual salary of $15 million for the season.  Many owners could care less about that, but there ARE some owners like Jerry Reinsdorf who would be quite reluctant to pay the extra cash (even though he gets a sometimes unfair reputation as being overly cheap, he doesn’t like to throw money away…which is pretty bad business, but sometimes neccessary in this very strange business model that is the NBA).

      I personally do get confused on trading these contracts though.  Does the money have to match the cap hit or the salary number?  Meaning, does Houston have to take back only $8.5 million for Lin in salary/cap number or do they have to take back $15 million?  From what I have read, it’s $8.5 million in and $8.5 million out for each guy but I am not 100% on that.

       

       

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