Bias in favour of Parker / Against Wiggins

 People sometimes judge NCAA players by the eye test more than NBA guys.  In the NBA, if a guy doesn’t put up great numbers, it doesn’t matter as much how skilled he appears, but in college, a guy can shoot under 40% for a month and a half, as Parker recently did, and not see too much of a change in public perception.  

Part of the reason Parker gets more hype is because he is more skilled in general than Wiggins, while Wiggins’ physical dominance makes his struggles easier to pick apart.  It is much easier to blame Wiggins for missing a seemingly easy fingerroll than it is to blame Parker for missing the same shot since Wiggins looks like he should be dominant and doesn’t always seem to need to work that hard to get to the rim, while Parker needs to use much more advanced ball handling skills to get to the rim due to his lack of footspeed compared to Wiggins.

Wiggins also has the added burden of entering the season with more hype.  As a result, people tend to focus on his weaknesses since they want to refute the hype.  Parker, as a direct result of this, benefits by being looked upon slightly more favorably relative to expectations.  

By the end of the season, I think Wiggins will be seen as the top wing prospect in the draft.  Sometimes people miss the forest for the trees when evaluating prospects and I think that is happening right now with Wiggins.  When the season ends, people will be able to step back and see that Wiggins combination of physical tools, production and skill development are extremely impressive for a teenage wing prospect.  Both Wiggins and Parker are outstanding prospects, but Wiggins better fits the profile of a top prospect and, as you mentioned, probably has a little more long-term potential, although both Parker and Wiggins are high-upside prospects.

 People sometimes judge NCAA players by the eye test more than NBA guys.  In the NBA, if a guy doesn’t put up great numbers, it doesn’t matter as much how skilled he appears, but in college, a guy can shoot under 40% for a month and a half, as Parker recently did, and not see too much of a change in public perception.  

Part of the reason Parker gets more hype is because he is more skilled in general than Wiggins, while Wiggins’ physical dominance makes his struggles easier to pick apart.  It is much easier to blame Wiggins for missing a seemingly easy fingerroll than it is to blame Parker for missing the same shot since Wiggins looks like he should be dominant and doesn’t always seem to need to work that hard to get to the rim, while Parker needs to use much more advanced ball handling skills to get to the rim due to his lack of footspeed compared to Wiggins.

Wiggins also has the added burden of entering the season with more hype.  As a result, people tend to focus on his weaknesses since they want to refute the hype.  Parker, as a direct result of this, benefits by being looked upon slightly more favorably relative to expectations.  

By the end of the season, I think Wiggins will be seen as the top wing prospect in the draft.  Sometimes people miss the forest for the trees when evaluating prospects and I think that is happening right now with Wiggins.  When the season ends, people will be able to step back and see that Wiggins combination of physical tools, production and skill development are extremely impressive for a teenage wing prospect.  Both Wiggins and Parker are outstanding prospects, but Wiggins better fits the profile of a top prospect and, as you mentioned, probably has a little more long-term potential, although both Parker and Wiggins are high-upside prospects.

When you’re regarded as the best prospect since LeBron James you are put on a different level than every other player, even other great players.

When you’re regarded as the best prospect since LeBron James you are put on a different level than every other player, even other great players.

Your bias was given away with the way you spelled "favour" 😉

I don’t see any bias taking place here. At least not from this site. I have been familiar with both players over the past 2-3 seasons of high school basketball, having seen both numerous times live… Both players have different attributes and if you want to swing for the fences but you’re also willing to strike out, Wiggins is the pick. Parker comes with added security, he’s got go to scoring ability and a stronger all around skill set, but less athleticism. He’s easily the surer bet of the two. If anything, I think people (recruiting analysts, draft experts etc.)  going into the season were biased against Parker, because of his pudgy body type. You will remember ESPN had him at 6 and behind Gordon (gasp!) at certain points. We’ve rated Parker higher than anyone all along and have projected him in the top 3 the entire time. Scouts still believe he could go first…. Keep in mind, he’s far more athletic than he’s given credit for, still. He can probably play the 4 at times in the NBA for stretches, if needed. Also he’s got a better excuse than Wiggins for any slumps as he’s being forced to defend out of position and play physical in the post…. What he gives up to Wiggins in defense and upside, he makes up for in BBIQ, maturity and determination. In my opinion, he’s a virtual lock to be a top 10 player in the NBA in his prime and quite possible a top 5. A poor man’s Durant if you will. Wiggins could end up better, but he has a long ways to go to convince teams of that before the draft. It will be fun to see this debate play out as the season progresses.

Your bias was given away with the way you spelled "favour" 😉

I don’t see any bias taking place here. At least not from this site. I have been familiar with both players over the past 2-3 seasons of high school basketball, having seen both numerous times live… Both players have different attributes and if you want to swing for the fences but you’re also willing to strike out, Wiggins is the pick. Parker comes with added security, he’s got go to scoring ability and a stronger all around skill set, but less athleticism. He’s easily the surer bet of the two. If anything, I think people (recruiting analysts, draft experts etc.)  going into the season were biased against Parker, because of his pudgy body type. You will remember ESPN had him at 6 and behind Gordon (gasp!) at certain points. We’ve rated Parker higher than anyone all along and have projected him in the top 3 the entire time. Scouts still believe he could go first…. Keep in mind, he’s far more athletic than he’s given credit for, still. He can probably play the 4 at times in the NBA for stretches, if needed. Also he’s got a better excuse than Wiggins for any slumps as he’s being forced to defend out of position and play physical in the post…. What he gives up to Wiggins in defense and upside, he makes up for in BBIQ, maturity and determination. In my opinion, he’s a virtual lock to be a top 10 player in the NBA in his prime and quite possible a top 5. A poor man’s Durant if you will. Wiggins could end up better, but he has a long ways to go to convince teams of that before the draft. It will be fun to see this debate play out as the season progresses.

 I think Wiggins is a gamer.  He almost gets bored with the college competition.  I think a good reference on immense talent being underwhelming at the college level would be Andre Drummond.  I know they are different positions, but both elite as far as athleticism goes for their position.  

I watched film of Wiggins in big games and he seems to almost always show up when another premeir player is on the other team.  I remember his AAU game with Julius Randle where Wiggins defended him the entire game.  Wiggins looked like a man possessed on defense and proved he was better than Randle by getting the team win and stops down the stretch when needed.  He also closed the game with decisive buckets, mostly mid-range.

Also, against Duke earlier in the college season, Parker played an outstanding game and Wiggins was ho-hum until the very end when the game mattered.  Hit a huge mid-range step back towards the end of the game where I felt that sealed it for the Jayhawks when Duke was coming back.  He crushed their momentum with that jumper, then finished them off with a break-away dunk.

I think the big dance come March will tell a lot of the tale for Wiggins.  I believe he will step up his game on the brightest stage and reclaim his spot to be drafted over Parker.  Embiid is a different story…

 I think Wiggins is a gamer.  He almost gets bored with the college competition.  I think a good reference on immense talent being underwhelming at the college level would be Andre Drummond.  I know they are different positions, but both elite as far as athleticism goes for their position.  

I watched film of Wiggins in big games and he seems to almost always show up when another premeir player is on the other team.  I remember his AAU game with Julius Randle where Wiggins defended him the entire game.  Wiggins looked like a man possessed on defense and proved he was better than Randle by getting the team win and stops down the stretch when needed.  He also closed the game with decisive buckets, mostly mid-range.

Also, against Duke earlier in the college season, Parker played an outstanding game and Wiggins was ho-hum until the very end when the game mattered.  Hit a huge mid-range step back towards the end of the game where I felt that sealed it for the Jayhawks when Duke was coming back.  He crushed their momentum with that jumper, then finished them off with a break-away dunk.

I think the big dance come March will tell a lot of the tale for Wiggins.  I believe he will step up his game on the brightest stage and reclaim his spot to be drafted over Parker.  Embiid is a different story…

 Parker= big dog glenn robinson he wont be a star in the nba but a pretty good player

 Parker= big dog glenn robinson he wont be a star in the nba but a pretty good player

 wiggins= scotty pippen at best and darius miles at least if he doesnt develop a killer instict anthony bennet wont be the only canadian top pick bust we will be talking about!

 wiggins= scotty pippen at best and darius miles at least if he doesnt develop a killer instict anthony bennet wont be the only canadian top pick bust we will be talking about!

 I think at this time of the year, when what’s going on is mostly about production, people are afraid of potential. Later on, when the workouts come around stats are wrapped up, people gravitate towards players with physical tools and potential. By draft day people will know that Wiggins is the superior prospect.

 I think at this time of the year, when what’s going on is mostly about production, people are afraid of potential. Later on, when the workouts come around stats are wrapped up, people gravitate towards players with physical tools and potential. By draft day people will know that Wiggins is the superior prospect.

I have for sure always kept Jabari at two and got into a big fight with one of your mods mr Aran  because he said long term that dude Marcus iforgot from UK was gonna be better. I got numerous of negs for telling people randle will NEVER be better than Jabari, And even negged in preseason for saying Bari could take Wiggins spot for number 1 because Andrew wiggins played like a combe forward in HS, got like 20+ negs.

Bari is a BEAsT, and will be a great scorer, but Wiggins athleticism and ability to finish at the rim put him on another., have you seen the way he is able to finger roll the ball INSIDE the hoop after picking up his dribble almost from the free throw line, ridiculous (I remember Adetokunbo would do that all the time as well. PLUG). Andrew’s shooting form I have always raved about, off the dribble he balances his body mid air carelessly (have said that about 20 times) he straightens his elbow to the point where he HS that highlight making a three mid game with one hand after getting fouled. With him you get a super athlete 6’7 shooting guard, with decent all around skill go is putting up good numbers with soooo much room to grow. 

Embiid

wiggins

bari

I have for sure always kept Jabari at two and got into a big fight with one of your mods mr Aran  because he said long term that dude Marcus iforgot from UK was gonna be better. I got numerous of negs for telling people randle will NEVER be better than Jabari, And even negged in preseason for saying Bari could take Wiggins spot for number 1 because Andrew wiggins played like a combe forward in HS, got like 20+ negs.

Bari is a BEAsT, and will be a great scorer, but Wiggins athleticism and ability to finish at the rim put him on another., have you seen the way he is able to finger roll the ball INSIDE the hoop after picking up his dribble almost from the free throw line, ridiculous (I remember Adetokunbo would do that all the time as well. PLUG). Andrew’s shooting form I have always raved about, off the dribble he balances his body mid air carelessly (have said that about 20 times) he straightens his elbow to the point where he HS that highlight making a three mid game with one hand after getting fouled. With him you get a super athlete 6’7 shooting guard, with decent all around skill go is putting up good numbers with soooo much room to grow. 

Embiid

wiggins

bari

Before anyone says anything I am a Duke fan, I love Jabari Parker but I was just as excited as anyone else about Wiggins. When it comes to Andrew Wiggins there are two things I am worried about, His drive, ppl have been quick to name him the next NBA superstar comparing him to top 50 greats. Only issue Pippen played the perimeter his whole life, Wiggins played the post 75% of the time in HS. Doesnt have much exp in the wing to dominate this level or next level comp. Watch his highlights whos over 6’6"? Number one if Wiggins wants to be an immediate impact make alot more money he will stay another year to learn a eing podition caise his frame doesnt support Lebron type weight. Another thing I worry about is his mentality in clutch moments….Marcus Smart called him out more than once and that game he took under five shots….he is always coasting. MJ Kobe even weak minded LBJ would have attacked even if they are off they keep going at it. Wiggins doesnt have that gene to make him great. The diff between Igoudala and Kobe is Kobe has that gene passion and desire and flat out need to be great. Wiggins driving to the lane in the NBA struggling at times like he does in college will not make it depending on athleticism. 97% of all ppl in the NBA are athletic and strong….the NBA is not patient if he doesnt dominate in 2 yrs hello dleague….one year extra in college makes the world of difference. Jabari will be more consistant he is guaranteed to be good has a chance to be great . He is playing post against bigger guys and carrying more weight than he will in the nba. He is 235-240 as of now his playing weight is 225 if reports are true and he comes back w a team that has exp and size we will see the real deal. Even in the league with his ability to create his own jumpshot lose ten lbs get quicker and see more open looks Jabari will explode. I disagree with wiggins being better long term. Jabari has the want and killer instinct and wiggins doesnt. His best bet is to stay in school and jabari lose ten lbs. Either NBA or college next year is one to watch.

Before anyone says anything I am a Duke fan, I love Jabari Parker but I was just as excited as anyone else about Wiggins. When it comes to Andrew Wiggins there are two things I am worried about, His drive, ppl have been quick to name him the next NBA superstar comparing him to top 50 greats. Only issue Pippen played the perimeter his whole life, Wiggins played the post 75% of the time in HS. Doesnt have much exp in the wing to dominate this level or next level comp. Watch his highlights whos over 6’6"? Number one if Wiggins wants to be an immediate impact make alot more money he will stay another year to learn a eing podition caise his frame doesnt support Lebron type weight. Another thing I worry about is his mentality in clutch moments….Marcus Smart called him out more than once and that game he took under five shots….he is always coasting. MJ Kobe even weak minded LBJ would have attacked even if they are off they keep going at it. Wiggins doesnt have that gene to make him great. The diff between Igoudala and Kobe is Kobe has that gene passion and desire and flat out need to be great. Wiggins driving to the lane in the NBA struggling at times like he does in college will not make it depending on athleticism. 97% of all ppl in the NBA are athletic and strong….the NBA is not patient if he doesnt dominate in 2 yrs hello dleague….one year extra in college makes the world of difference. Jabari will be more consistant he is guaranteed to be good has a chance to be great . He is playing post against bigger guys and carrying more weight than he will in the nba. He is 235-240 as of now his playing weight is 225 if reports are true and he comes back w a team that has exp and size we will see the real deal. Even in the league with his ability to create his own jumpshot lose ten lbs get quicker and see more open looks Jabari will explode. I disagree with wiggins being better long term. Jabari has the want and killer instinct and wiggins doesnt. His best bet is to stay in school and jabari lose ten lbs. Either NBA or college next year is one to watch.

 Another thing that intrigues me bout Wiggins is tht his dad was a basketball player, and it runs in the blood. I  always pointed that out about Michael carter Williams AND Klay Thompson… And look.

 Another thing that intrigues me bout Wiggins is tht his dad was a basketball player, and it runs in the blood. I  always pointed that out about Michael carter Williams AND Klay Thompson… And look.

 Having family with an athletic background and it being passed down could be a crutch too. Hes got speed and all the dunks but is too relaxed on the floor and has a poor skillset. Now players arent small HS kids theyre big and athletic and it only gets more challenging from here on out. And i question his drive and desire to get better. 

 Having family with an athletic background and it being passed down could be a crutch too. Hes got speed and all the dunks but is too relaxed on the floor and has a poor skillset. Now players arent small HS kids theyre big and athletic and it only gets more challenging from here on out. And i question his drive and desire to get better. 

 I don’t really buy this at all.

First off, pretty much every draft prognosticator either has Wiggins ahead of Parker still, or neck and neck. So I’m not sure who all these people are who are dropping Wiggins in their rankings.

Second, Parker has been a better player than Wiggins this year. Yes Parker had a slump, but Wiggins has been more inconsistent.

Thirdly, I continue to look at NBA skills and don’t see what anyone sees in Wiggins beyond a fairly athletic player that runs the floor well. Watch both of them play. Wiggins gets a major volume of his shots on cutting without the ball and running lanes in transition. Wiggins is weak with the ball off the dribble, and is an average shooter. Basically all he can hang his hat on is the fact he is athletic and is a decent defensive player. 

Parker is FAR from a perfect prospect. He has a ton off deficiencies and isn’t as athletic as Wiggins is. But Parker does things that look like the things stars do in the NBA. He can score in any situation, he makes great plays in transition with his pure force, and he is also had to play in the post essentially all year, because of the team he is on. Where are the clips that show me what I’m getting with Wiggins, that aren’t just fastbreak dunks and basket cuts? That is what I want to see. I’m sorry if I’m "bias", but I just don’t get what everyone is drooling over. He looks like a solid long term player to me, but not a star.

And as I wrote in another thread, the "potential" card confuses me because I don’t see what he is going to be capable of doing that Parker isn’t beyond defensive speed. 

 I don’t really buy this at all.

First off, pretty much every draft prognosticator either has Wiggins ahead of Parker still, or neck and neck. So I’m not sure who all these people are who are dropping Wiggins in their rankings.

Second, Parker has been a better player than Wiggins this year. Yes Parker had a slump, but Wiggins has been more inconsistent.

Thirdly, I continue to look at NBA skills and don’t see what anyone sees in Wiggins beyond a fairly athletic player that runs the floor well. Watch both of them play. Wiggins gets a major volume of his shots on cutting without the ball and running lanes in transition. Wiggins is weak with the ball off the dribble, and is an average shooter. Basically all he can hang his hat on is the fact he is athletic and is a decent defensive player. 

Parker is FAR from a perfect prospect. He has a ton off deficiencies and isn’t as athletic as Wiggins is. But Parker does things that look like the things stars do in the NBA. He can score in any situation, he makes great plays in transition with his pure force, and he is also had to play in the post essentially all year, because of the team he is on. Where are the clips that show me what I’m getting with Wiggins, that aren’t just fastbreak dunks and basket cuts? That is what I want to see. I’m sorry if I’m "bias", but I just don’t get what everyone is drooling over. He looks like a solid long term player to me, but not a star.

And as I wrote in another thread, the "potential" card confuses me because I don’t see what he is going to be capable of doing that Parker isn’t beyond defensive speed. 

 Parker only had a slump but wiggins is inconsistent. That’s the bias that everyone is talking about. For Parker everyone just shrugs off his struggles has a slump but for wiggins it’s a huge red flag. It’s inconsistency. Parker has struggled in 8 out of the last 10 games. In a total of 24 games so far. That’s like 1 out of  3 games is a bad game.  Why is that just looked at has just a slump if we have only had such a small viewing sample? I do agree that there been Parker bias in the media and I think it has to do with the first overall impressions. When KU played Duke Parker had a stronger first impression even tho KU won and Andrew still played a great game. A day after that game the main ESPN media heads decided to hitch their wagon onto JP and since most of them don’t even watch college ball consistently that is still the perspection they have of the two. I remember the day after the game watching ESPN Stephen a smith was raving about how jabari was a stud. Mike Wilbon wrote an article about how jabari was the best player in the country period. It’s all still based off of those first impressions. If wiggins played like he did vs Iowa st vs duke I bet we would be hearing a lot more pro wiggins talk.

 Parker only had a slump but wiggins is inconsistent. That’s the bias that everyone is talking about. For Parker everyone just shrugs off his struggles has a slump but for wiggins it’s a huge red flag. It’s inconsistency. Parker has struggled in 8 out of the last 10 games. In a total of 24 games so far. That’s like 1 out of  3 games is a bad game.  Why is that just looked at has just a slump if we have only had such a small viewing sample? I do agree that there been Parker bias in the media and I think it has to do with the first overall impressions. When KU played Duke Parker had a stronger first impression even tho KU won and Andrew still played a great game. A day after that game the main ESPN media heads decided to hitch their wagon onto JP and since most of them don’t even watch college ball consistently that is still the perspection they have of the two. I remember the day after the game watching ESPN Stephen a smith was raving about how jabari was a stud. Mike Wilbon wrote an article about how jabari was the best player in the country period. It’s all still based off of those first impressions. If wiggins played like he did vs Iowa st vs duke I bet we would be hearing a lot more pro wiggins talk.