This topic contains 13 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by
ProudGrandpa 15 years, 2 months ago.
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- Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 6:12am #28997

TC_42Participantthat James Harden and Nick Collison were easily replaceable for the Thunder (to throw in for a Westbrook for CP3 trade, for example)…
with Harden and Collison on the floor in game 7, the Thunder outscored Memphis 70-49. Without them, it was 41-35 in Memphis’s favor.
If you watched every play, both guys were huge all series long. Especially Collison.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 6:25am #532234

RUDEBOY_ParticipantNot True!!!
Collison was Invisible until game 7,when he played outstanding…And Harden was up & down during the series..
Memphis biggest weakness showed its ugly head during game 7..They dont have consistent dependable outside shooting….
I knew not having Rudy when teams stepped up their defense would hurt them..For all the people who say Memphis dont need Rudy should’ve watched this game..
Allen,Battier and Sam Young are great defenders…But they’re not very good creative offensive players nor great shooters..
BUT As that old saying goes ”Great Offense Beats Great Defense ANY DAY”…..
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 6:39am #532238

BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant"that James Harden and Nick Collison were easily replaceable for the Thunder (to throw in for a Westbrook for CP3 trade, for example)…
with Harden and Collison on the floor in game 7, the Thunder outscored Memphis 70-49. Without them, it was 41-35 in Memphis’s favor.
If you watched every play, both guys were huge all series long. Especially Collison."
Replaceable is different from having value. James Harden and Nick Collison are not the reason the Thunder are in the Western Conference Finals, Kevin Durant is. The same with the Bulls and Derrick Rose. If you put Kevin Durant on just about any team in the league, they would have someone who would play the role of James Harden and Nick Collison just as well. The difference between the Nuggets and the Thunder was Kevin Durant. The difference between the Bulls and both the Pacers and Hawks was Derrick Rose. The difference between the 60-win Cavs and the 19-win Cavs is LeBron. The other guys have to do their jobs and their roles are not insignificant, but they do not determine the success of the team they are on and the relative value they have over Replacement Player X is not much if any, so don’t say they cannot be replaced.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 6:43am #532240

TC_42ParticipantYes, Collison was invisible on the stat sheet for most of the series. But he’s famous for having being a no-stats all star. The Grizz are known for being a gritty team and rightfully so, but Collison was no doubt the grittiest player on the court this series.
Game 2: Collison led the team in plus/minus, and Randolph and Gasol went 5-22 combined, Harden was deemed player of the game by ESPN
Game 4: Collison again leads the team in plus/minus by a large margin with +22 and Randolph has big numbers (3OT) but poor shooting percentage, Harden has 19pts, 7reb, 7 asts
Game 5: Collison – 9pts, 10rebs, 50% fgp in 25min / Randolph – 9pts, 7rbs, 33% in 36 min
Game 6: Collison one of two Thunder players with a positive plus/minus, Harden – 14pts, 6 rebs, 5 asts
Game 7: Collison again leads team in plus/minus with +26, 8pts, 12rebs, 3blks / Harden with +24 with 17pts on 60% fgp
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 6:59am #532245

TC_42ParticipantKD is clearly irreplaceable. Keen perception of the obvious.
I never said they weren’t irreplaceable… I said they weren’t EASILY replaceable. Big difference.
Let’s say you trade Westrbrook + Harden + Collison for CP3 + insert NO role player.
I just don’t see how the THUNDER are going to get role players who have the same impact on the game that Collison and Harden do. A Lakers might be able to, but not OKC.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:06am #532247
Memphis MadnessParticipantHarden also had a great game 5.
The Thunder just have to hope that Westbrook figures it out. But, it might be a good thing in that KD is a quiet guy and Russell is more extroverted. I still think they need a good veteran player who can provide some leadership. Someone mentioned that the Thunder needs a low post scorer, which I think is correct. Ibaka, Perkins, and Collison get most of their scoring off hustle. Neither are true post-up scorers. The Thunder are basically a perimeter-oriented team on offense with 3 guys who can drive the ball (Durant, Westbrook, Harden). They should look at a center with post skills like Keith Benson. I don’t think Perkins is gonna give them more than 30 minutes a night so their biggest need might be getting another center.
KD and RB are great building blocks. They have different personalities but that might not be a bad thing. With the old Super Sonics Gary Payton was the vocal leader even though Shawn Kemp had more raw talent. But, the good Sonics teams had great veteran leadership from Nate McMillan, Detlef Shrempf, and Sam Perkins. Harden is a great piece but I still think they need another veteran. A veteran point guard who is more of a passer could be a great pick up.
I like the idea of the Thunder drafting Kyle Singler. Singler gives them another scorer and some toughness from the 3 spot. He also allows them to either go big or small. I could see the Thunder going with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Singler, and Ibaka at the same time.
The Thunder are already solid at the 2/3 spots with Durant, Thabo, Harden, and Cook. They might want to trade the 23rd pick and try to go after Keith Benson as their scoring, athletic center and then try to get Chandler Parsons who is a good passer and can do a lot of things (similar to Kyle Singler but with better athleticism). Parsons would give the Thunder two good passing wings off the bench (along with Harden). Benson would give them a fourth big man and a solid scorer. Then they need to take a look at getting a veteran point guard with some leadership abilities.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:08am #532248

DanEboyParticipantTC_42,
BTPH doesn’t understand the importance of the ‘team’ concept and how valuable the right role players fit into a certain team’s success. When a team plays together for an X amount of time, they build a chemistry and know each other’s strengths, weaknessess, where they are going to be on the court, etc. You don’t just keep interchanging players when you have the right pieces.
Bulls probably don’t win game 1 without the efforts Noah and Taj put forth yesterday. And Harden and Collison both played great in game 7 as well.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:29am #532259

HitsterParticipantCollinson is the prefect glue guy on the Thunder team, he’s not a superstar not even a starter but he does a key bench role and is respected by the stars on that team. Look at the respect he got when he got that new contract earlier in the year, he’s been on the roster longest and could well be seen perhaps as the locker room leader.
James Harden does the 6th man scoring role perfectly and has never had an issue about not starting as far as I know so buys into Coach Brooks’ thinking.
When I look at the Thunder I see a solid team assembled by Sam Presti mainly who all seem to know their roles and appreciate what each other does.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:33am #532261

PlatypusParticipantCollison is no way near worth the contract he got. He isn’t that good either, a 2nd round pick like John Leur or a veteran like Kurt Thomas or Juan Howard could do exactly what he does.
In fact i could see the thunder drafting a power forward with their first round pick or i could see them trade down with cleveland and draft a small forward and power forward.
Harden is a good scoring option and would be even better if he was on the bulls or hornets.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:33am #532262

TC_42ParticipantGreat points, DanEboy and Hitster.
Also, while you can probably replace Harden’s numbers… he’s still just a second year player. He should only get better and better. He’s also a great facilitator at the 2 guard spot.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:41am #532265

TC_42ParticipantSymbol, you’re one of my favorite posters, but you’re killing me right now.
Collison is nowhere near worth his contract? Here’s what he’s making over the next four years….
$3.2
$2.9
$2.5
$2.2
Give me him over Kurt Thomas or Juwan Howard any day.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 7:53am #532274

BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant"BTPH doesn’t understand the importance of the ‘team’ concept and how valuable the right role players fit into a certain team’s success. When a team plays together for an X amount of time, they build a chemistry and know each other’s strengths, weaknessess, where they are going to be on the court, etc. You don’t just keep interchanging players when you have the right pieces."
You are aware that the Bulls had fewer holdovers from last year than the Heat, right? You do know that those pieces around Derrick Rose are the same mercenaries that are around Dwyane Wade? Chicago dumped a piece that fit better at the shooting guard position than their current crop in Kirk Hinrich for the chance to get LeBron and Wade. It is nice that facts don’t matter to you, but they do in the real world. When Derrick Rose went 6-22 and 15 points, the Bulls lost to the Pacers. When he went 11-27 with 24 points, they lost to Atlanta. The supporting cast in Chicago does not overcome a bad Rose game, and that is a fact. Just like the fact that they cruised without problem when Joakim Noah was hurt. They aren’t equals. And just to point out, LeBron went 5-15 and had 15 points yesterday. When that happens, the Heat’s supporting cast blows too.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 8:26am #532288

HitsterParticipantSam Presti was clever enough to use up cap space this season and give Nick Collinson a $6million one off rise to offset what is a lower contract for the next 4 years when the rookie contract extensions kick in to allow the Thunder maximum cap flexability.
0 - Posted on: Mon, 05/16/2011 - 8:32am #532289

ProudGrandpaParticipantI made more than $3.20 in an hour back when I worked at Harvey’s on Maple and 26th.
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