[BallGawd01Participant]

Hello everyone! I was watching some old Penny highlights on YouTube, and it was amazing how good he was! After the video, I was scrolling through the comments and I saw someone post an interesting comment. He believed that Penny Hardaway was a better player than Allen Iverson, at first I was like this guys crazy, but he made really valid points. First off, Penny was a far more versatile player, he could easily play 3 positions on the court, he was a better passer, and a far better shooter. As much as I like and respect AI, you can’t deny the fact that he was a ball-hog, ironicly enough, his nickname is Chuck lol. I understand his teams were bad and he "had" to shoot a lot, but he was terribly inefficient. Hardaway shot over 50% from the field twice in his career. If injuries did not play a factor, its fair to say Penny would have been a better player then AI. If both of these players were playing in today’s NBA, who would you rather have on your team/draft first AI or Penny? I’m going with Penny!   

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 The thing about AI is honestly who’s playing with him and who’s coaching him. You can’t just plug him on any team and it’ll work. Reason why it worked in philly was because everyone else there didn’t mind just playing defense, letting AI do all the work offensively, and Larry Brown didn’t give a damn about what you did as long as you are playing D. The only coach that I can see AI effectively playing for is Thibs but he’s currently without a team. Maybe Gentry. I don’t think Pop, Doc, Vogel, Van Gundy, and certainly Carlisile wouldn’t want to coach him.

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 Would*

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 Would*

[T Rex]

 Brad Stevens would work with AI, just like IT4 does.

 

 

[T Rex]

 Brad Stevens would work with AI, just like IT4 does.

 

 

[SkalAndJamalParticipant]

 The thing about AI is honestly who’s playing with him and who’s coaching him. You can’t just plug him on any team and it’ll work. Reason why it worked in philly was because everyone else there didn’t mind just playing defense, letting AI do all the work offensively, and Larry Brown didn’t give a damn about what you did as long as you are playing D. The only coach that I can see AI effectively playing for is Thibs but he’s currently without a team. Maybe Gentry. I don’t think Pop, Doc, Vogel, Van Gundy, and certainly Carlisile wouldn’t want to coach him.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 nobody has the heart or the will of iverson. 

he was a player under 6ft tall that had multiple 30 ppg seasons, while also leading the league in steals and minutes played at the same time.

It was basically AI vs kobe/Shaq in the playoffs, creating easily some of the best basketball moments ive ever seen in my life. Iverson vs Vince Carters Raptors each going off for 50 in the playoffs. the step over tyronn lue. 

 

 sure penny shot the ball a little better, but theres hardly a comparison between him and iverson.

 

 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

 nobody has the heart or the will of iverson. 

he was a player under 6ft tall that had multiple 30 ppg seasons, while also leading the league in steals and minutes played at the same time.

It was basically AI vs kobe/Shaq in the playoffs, creating easily some of the best basketball moments ive ever seen in my life. Iverson vs Vince Carters Raptors each going off for 50 in the playoffs. the step over tyronn lue. 

 

 sure penny shot the ball a little better, but theres hardly a comparison between him and iverson.

 

 

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

 I think what AI has is more than just a over inflated ego. I think the problem was a borderline mental disorder. Having said that i’m not sure he is any different than Kobe or Jordan in that respect. Like Jordan and Kobe I think he could have won if he were put in the right circumstance.

With Hardaway he could have fit in with any team and he would make them better. Hardaway belongs on the what if team with Len Bias, Grant Hill and many others through out the game. He did show enough before injuries that we know he was a potential superstar caliber player.

Overall I would say if AI went to the right situation magic could have happened like it did for Jordan and Kobe. Hardaway on the other hand could’ve fit in anywhere and helped his team win. AI had the higher end potential but he couldn’t ever find the right fit.

 

[WinterSoldierParticipant]

 I think what AI has is more than just a over inflated ego. I think the problem was a borderline mental disorder. Having said that i’m not sure he is any different than Kobe or Jordan in that respect. Like Jordan and Kobe I think he could have won if he were put in the right circumstance.

With Hardaway he could have fit in with any team and he would make them better. Hardaway belongs on the what if team with Len Bias, Grant Hill and many others through out the game. He did show enough before injuries that we know he was a potential superstar caliber player.

Overall I would say if AI went to the right situation magic could have happened like it did for Jordan and Kobe. Hardaway on the other hand could’ve fit in anywhere and helped his team win. AI had the higher end potential but he couldn’t ever find the right fit.

 

[True_JafiParticipant]

You would say that because Penny played with Shaq. At that time Shaq was doubled and tripled team. Penny was always single covered. Imagine Iverson single covered a whole season. Crazy! AI was getting doubled and tripled team and still put up numbers. And people don’t give credit to Iverson passing game. He could pass just aint really had anyone to pass to until he got to Denver

[True_JafiParticipant]

You would say that because Penny played with Shaq. At that time Shaq was doubled and tripled team. Penny was always single covered. Imagine Iverson single covered a whole season. Crazy! AI was getting doubled and tripled team and still put up numbers. And people don’t give credit to Iverson passing game. He could pass just aint really had anyone to pass to until he got to Denver

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

 AI was single teamed in Denver.

[herceg_bukuParticipant]

 AI was single teamed in Denver.

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 I Luv Penny – he was Amazing & it’s so sad that injuries cut his career short… Penny’s 1995 Orlando Magic was the ONLY team to beat Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen in the Playoofs & in their prime & Orlando DESTROYED Jordan, Pippen & the Bulls that year… I believe that the ONLY reason the Bulls had a 2nd 3peat was b/c Shaq migrated West after  96 & Penny’s Injury… If Penny is not crippled by injury he is W/O question an ALL Time Great…. Iverson & those Sixer’s teams are SO unique & believ it or not Iverson does not get ENOUGH credit for the Scoring MAchine that he was… That Sixers teams were GREAT defensive teams – they Literally Strangled teams defensively & just Made them quit… But they were Horrible on Offense! Larry Brown’s 2001 season was one of the Great coaching jobs of ALL TIME… He gathered a bunch of tall, long, athletic Defensive Studs & convinced them to defend like demons, forget offense & just get out of Allen’s way on Offense & if Not for ALL TIME Dominant Center Shaq Diesel, the Sixers WIN the Ring in 2001… Here’s a Great way to Understand the Greatness of Iverson… His Sixer’s teams Always finished in the Top 5 defensively & the Bottom 5 Offensively… Between Assists & Points, Iverson accounted for 45% of his team’s points!!! 45 %!!! Now imagine if you took the Best player on the # 1 Offensive team & swapped him w/ the Sixers’ Allen Iverson…. That would be the Phoenix Suns & Steve Nash… The year Nash won his MVP’s he acounted for 33% of his team’s Offense using Points & Assists… Switch players: Nash on the 2001 Sixers would Average 12 points & 8 Assists!!! Iverson would AVERAGE 38 points & 12 Assists!!! So the Assists would be Identical but the points would be 38!!! Here is another Stat that wil BLOW your mind!! In NBA History ONLY Shaq & Wilt Averaged More free throws per Game then Allen Iverson ?!?!?!?! Think about that 5’11” 155 lbs Iverson got to the Chaity Stripe more frequently then EVERYONE but the TWO greatest Physical Specimans who EVER lived…. Truly remarkable,,,,

[NBAjunkie81Participant]

 I Luv Penny – he was Amazing & it’s so sad that injuries cut his career short… Penny’s 1995 Orlando Magic was the ONLY team to beat Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen in the Playoofs & in their prime & Orlando DESTROYED Jordan, Pippen & the Bulls that year… I believe that the ONLY reason the Bulls had a 2nd 3peat was b/c Shaq migrated West after  96 & Penny’s Injury… If Penny is not crippled by injury he is W/O question an ALL Time Great…. Iverson & those Sixer’s teams are SO unique & believ it or not Iverson does not get ENOUGH credit for the Scoring MAchine that he was… That Sixers teams were GREAT defensive teams – they Literally Strangled teams defensively & just Made them quit… But they were Horrible on Offense! Larry Brown’s 2001 season was one of the Great coaching jobs of ALL TIME… He gathered a bunch of tall, long, athletic Defensive Studs & convinced them to defend like demons, forget offense & just get out of Allen’s way on Offense & if Not for ALL TIME Dominant Center Shaq Diesel, the Sixers WIN the Ring in 2001… Here’s a Great way to Understand the Greatness of Iverson… His Sixer’s teams Always finished in the Top 5 defensively & the Bottom 5 Offensively… Between Assists & Points, Iverson accounted for 45% of his team’s points!!! 45 %!!! Now imagine if you took the Best player on the # 1 Offensive team & swapped him w/ the Sixers’ Allen Iverson…. That would be the Phoenix Suns & Steve Nash… The year Nash won his MVP’s he acounted for 33% of his team’s Offense using Points & Assists… Switch players: Nash on the 2001 Sixers would Average 12 points & 8 Assists!!! Iverson would AVERAGE 38 points & 12 Assists!!! So the Assists would be Identical but the points would be 38!!! Here is another Stat that wil BLOW your mind!! In NBA History ONLY Shaq & Wilt Averaged More free throws per Game then Allen Iverson ?!?!?!?! Think about that 5’11” 155 lbs Iverson got to the Chaity Stripe more frequently then EVERYONE but the TWO greatest Physical Specimans who EVER lived…. Truly remarkable,,,,

[high floorParticipant]

The hype (fully justified in my opinion) regarding Penny Hardaway was insane from his rookie year through the 97-98 season.

Concerning AI, he was so frickin gifted at creating his own shot. Plus he was tough as nails with the way he competed on defense, not so much his last 3-4 years in the league.. but he tried really really hard.

Penny wasn’t just athletic, he was insanely athletic for a player over 6’6. He had to have had a 40 inch vertical, and was explosive laterally collecting steals and harassing opponents 1-3. I wasn’t even a teenager at the time yet, but the way he used to stick MJ on defense was jaw dropping. Plus his court vision and chemistry he had with Shaq was a sight to behold.

With that being said, I think I have to go with AI in this debate. His will, longevity, handle, and killer instinct were just on another level during his era. But Penny will always be one of my favorite players of all time. 

[high floorParticipant]

The hype (fully justified in my opinion) regarding Penny Hardaway was insane from his rookie year through the 97-98 season.

Concerning AI, he was so frickin gifted at creating his own shot. Plus he was tough as nails with the way he competed on defense, not so much his last 3-4 years in the league.. but he tried really really hard.

Penny wasn’t just athletic, he was insanely athletic for a player over 6’6. He had to have had a 40 inch vertical, and was explosive laterally collecting steals and harassing opponents 1-3. I wasn’t even a teenager at the time yet, but the way he used to stick MJ on defense was jaw dropping. Plus his court vision and chemistry he had with Shaq was a sight to behold.

With that being said, I think I have to go with AI in this debate. His will, longevity, handle, and killer instinct were just on another level during his era. But Penny will always be one of my favorite players of all time. 

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

Imagine if AI was 6’4-6’6, he would have been illegal, he would have averaged 40 ppg and likely won a few more MVP’s and rival MJ for the title of Best Player Ever

He could never get out of his own way sadly, Penny suffered devastating injuries and never fully regained his ability to impact a game in every way possible, he became a shell of himself, another sad case of what if?…

AI wins this debate IMO…

[The Scare Crow RisesParticipant]

Imagine if AI was 6’4-6’6, he would have been illegal, he would have averaged 40 ppg and likely won a few more MVP’s and rival MJ for the title of Best Player Ever

He could never get out of his own way sadly, Penny suffered devastating injuries and never fully regained his ability to impact a game in every way possible, he became a shell of himself, another sad case of what if?…

AI wins this debate IMO…

[BallGawd01Participant]

But he wasn’t 6’6. Penny was 6’6 and points aren’t the only thing that matter, theres rebounds, assists, steals, etc. Other than points, Penny won the statistical category of every category. 

[BallGawd01Participant]

But he wasn’t 6’6. Penny was 6’6 and points aren’t the only thing that matter, theres rebounds, assists, steals, etc. Other than points, Penny won the statistical category of every category. 

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

actually iveson has him on steals and assists too…

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

actually iveson has him on steals and assists too…

[BallGawd01Participant]

Iverson’s heart was unmatched by anybody in NBA history, I totally agree. But Penny didn’t just shoot better, he was a better defender, most of Iverson’s steals were as a result of gambles that didn’t always pay off, whereas Penny was asked to cover Micheal Jordan in crunch time of playoff games. Iverson was the better “Scorer”, but thats only because Penny didn’t need to score for ORL, Penny Hardaway easily could have avg 25ppg if he wanted, (In the playoffs after Shaq left Penny had back to back games where he scored 40+ points, he was a 6’6 PG that could shoot from 3, was ultra quick and atheletic, and regularly post up smaller pgs,THE GUY COULD SCORE!)) but he was a pass-first point guard on a loaded team, and he still averaged 20+ points while putting up ultra efficient numbers for a guard

[BallGawd01Participant]

Iverson’s heart was unmatched by anybody in NBA history, I totally agree. But Penny didn’t just shoot better, he was a better defender, most of Iverson’s steals were as a result of gambles that didn’t always pay off, whereas Penny was asked to cover Micheal Jordan in crunch time of playoff games. Iverson was the better “Scorer”, but thats only because Penny didn’t need to score for ORL, Penny Hardaway easily could have avg 25ppg if he wanted, (In the playoffs after Shaq left Penny had back to back games where he scored 40+ points, he was a 6’6 PG that could shoot from 3, was ultra quick and atheletic, and regularly post up smaller pgs,THE GUY COULD SCORE!)) but he was a pass-first point guard on a loaded team, and he still averaged 20+ points while putting up ultra efficient numbers for a guard

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Yea im definatly taking AI. Both solid and great guards but AI is more in the league of Kobe and MJ and most people would Take Kobe and MJ over AI but he can still be entertained in that group even w/o a Ring. Pennys best seasons came with the Shaq,Horace,d3, Nick anderson and the Magic. And even Pennys best season of averaging 22pts 7ast, Allen Iverson had the same exact average his sophmore season and improved on those numbers for the next 11 years before he started dying down. Actually the more I Compare Hardaway to Iverson there really is no comparison. I think Prime Deron Williams vs A Prime Penny Hardaway would be a good matchup tho.

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Yea im definatly taking AI. Both solid and great guards but AI is more in the league of Kobe and MJ and most people would Take Kobe and MJ over AI but he can still be entertained in that group even w/o a Ring. Pennys best seasons came with the Shaq,Horace,d3, Nick anderson and the Magic. And even Pennys best season of averaging 22pts 7ast, Allen Iverson had the same exact average his sophmore season and improved on those numbers for the next 11 years before he started dying down. Actually the more I Compare Hardaway to Iverson there really is no comparison. I think Prime Deron Williams vs A Prime Penny Hardaway would be a good matchup tho.

[BallGawd01Participant]

Let’s not forget!!! When Jordon was about to retire for the 2nd time, who were the player he was "Passing the torch" too? One of those players was Grant Hill. The Other? Penny Hardaway! Thats how good this guy was, he was one of the five best players in the league in his prime hands down, and the reason why everyone is going with AI is because Penny got hurt. Everyone knew Penny had the talent to be an all-time great. And to THIS DAY Shaq still thinks Penny is one of the best players of all-time. Please do not disrespect him by comparing him to DWill. DWill was nice in his prime but he was not prime Penny!

[BallGawd01Participant]

Let’s not forget!!! When Jordon was about to retire for the 2nd time, who were the player he was "Passing the torch" too? One of those players was Grant Hill. The Other? Penny Hardaway! Thats how good this guy was, he was one of the five best players in the league in his prime hands down, and the reason why everyone is going with AI is because Penny got hurt. Everyone knew Penny had the talent to be an all-time great. And to THIS DAY Shaq still thinks Penny is one of the best players of all-time. Please do not disrespect him by comparing him to DWill. DWill was nice in his prime but he was not prime Penny!

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Dont get me wrong penny is nice. He was above average size for a PG (ESPCIALLY) back then and had good skill and feel for the game.  Nice Crossover, Can go Above the Rim, A creative Dimer, Decent shot but at the end of the day he just didnt do enough whether because of injury or not having shaq around his numbers are not very impressive. His 1st 3yrs with the Magic are by far his best! 

But you cant just Compare AI to Hardaway regardless if he was injured or not. You can look at Highlights, Stats, Team stats you can even match AI and Hardaway 1 on 1 on 2k! Theses no reason why you should be comparing Penny to A.I lol.

Pennys best year 95-96 / 22pts 7ast 4rebs 2stl 51%fg 31%3pt

AI best year 05-06 / 33pts 7ast 4rebs 2stl 45%fg 32% 3pt

Not only does AIs best year shit on pennys, but penny only had 2 seasons in the league scoring 20pts +, AI on the other hand has 5+ season scoring 30+ lol. Like i said the more i compare the 2, the more its not a comparison.  Penny had 7 Good seasons, No eye popping stats but 7 solid seasons. 6 if you count out 97-98 where he only played 20 games. Pennys other 8 seasons he barely managed to average 10 points lol! Maybe if PENNY was Healthier and Injuries didnt slow him down it would be a better debate. I understand you adore Penny but anybody that knows Basketball would take A.I. I like penny too! Got a couple of his shoes and honestly i would rather wear some Foams over RBK questions or Answers but when it comes down to whos the better player its AI. 

Thats like saying Brandon Roy is better than Kobe or Yao is better than shaq.

And P.s Deron Williams Stats along with his Game when he played for the jazz are more similar then you think.

Dwill 21pts 10ast 4rebs 1stl 45%fg 34%3pt

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 Dont get me wrong penny is nice. He was above average size for a PG (ESPCIALLY) back then and had good skill and feel for the game.  Nice Crossover, Can go Above the Rim, A creative Dimer, Decent shot but at the end of the day he just didnt do enough whether because of injury or not having shaq around his numbers are not very impressive. His 1st 3yrs with the Magic are by far his best! 

But you cant just Compare AI to Hardaway regardless if he was injured or not. You can look at Highlights, Stats, Team stats you can even match AI and Hardaway 1 on 1 on 2k! Theses no reason why you should be comparing Penny to A.I lol.

Pennys best year 95-96 / 22pts 7ast 4rebs 2stl 51%fg 31%3pt

AI best year 05-06 / 33pts 7ast 4rebs 2stl 45%fg 32% 3pt

Not only does AIs best year shit on pennys, but penny only had 2 seasons in the league scoring 20pts +, AI on the other hand has 5+ season scoring 30+ lol. Like i said the more i compare the 2, the more its not a comparison.  Penny had 7 Good seasons, No eye popping stats but 7 solid seasons. 6 if you count out 97-98 where he only played 20 games. Pennys other 8 seasons he barely managed to average 10 points lol! Maybe if PENNY was Healthier and Injuries didnt slow him down it would be a better debate. I understand you adore Penny but anybody that knows Basketball would take A.I. I like penny too! Got a couple of his shoes and honestly i would rather wear some Foams over RBK questions or Answers but when it comes down to whos the better player its AI. 

Thats like saying Brandon Roy is better than Kobe or Yao is better than shaq.

And P.s Deron Williams Stats along with his Game when he played for the jazz are more similar then you think.

Dwill 21pts 10ast 4rebs 1stl 45%fg 34%3pt

[BallGawd01Participant]

This entire thing is both in their PRIME. Obviously AI had the far better career, because Penny only had 4 healthy seasons! I’M TALKING ABOUT PENNY IN HIS PRIME!! MJ said he was NEXT UP. Go and look at posters he has, the crossovers, the 30+ point games in the playoffs vs the Bulls at their peak.You keep looking at numbers, you fail to take into account defense, as well as style of play. Like I said if Penny wanted to score, he could have averaged 25ppg, he was a PASS FIRST PG! AI was a scorer, you bring up his career year, what about the seasons in which he shot under 40% from the field? Because their’s alot of those. If they played 1-on-1 Penny would DESTROY Iverson lmaooo! Penny would post him up all game, Iverson would not be able to do anything lol. Plus he was an all world defender. You clearly have an emotional connection to AI like most people who watched him do, he was a great competitor, but he was an inefficient scorer, a bad defender, and a so-so playmaker, plus a sometimes locker room headache. If you wanna win, and your using your head and not your heart, Hardaway was a better pick. 

 

You keep looking at stats when your comparing these players, which is not the right thing to do. DWill is 6’3, Penny is 6’7. DWill is not really fast or explosive. Penny is very fast and explosive. DWill was/is not a good defender, Penny was one of the best defensive PGs in the league. They are so much different its not even funny. Just because players put up similar numbers, it doesn’t make them similar players. Watch not just look

[BallGawd01Participant]

This entire thing is both in their PRIME. Obviously AI had the far better career, because Penny only had 4 healthy seasons! I’M TALKING ABOUT PENNY IN HIS PRIME!! MJ said he was NEXT UP. Go and look at posters he has, the crossovers, the 30+ point games in the playoffs vs the Bulls at their peak.You keep looking at numbers, you fail to take into account defense, as well as style of play. Like I said if Penny wanted to score, he could have averaged 25ppg, he was a PASS FIRST PG! AI was a scorer, you bring up his career year, what about the seasons in which he shot under 40% from the field? Because their’s alot of those. If they played 1-on-1 Penny would DESTROY Iverson lmaooo! Penny would post him up all game, Iverson would not be able to do anything lol. Plus he was an all world defender. You clearly have an emotional connection to AI like most people who watched him do, he was a great competitor, but he was an inefficient scorer, a bad defender, and a so-so playmaker, plus a sometimes locker room headache. If you wanna win, and your using your head and not your heart, Hardaway was a better pick. 

 

You keep looking at stats when your comparing these players, which is not the right thing to do. DWill is 6’3, Penny is 6’7. DWill is not really fast or explosive. Penny is very fast and explosive. DWill was/is not a good defender, Penny was one of the best defensive PGs in the league. They are so much different its not even funny. Just because players put up similar numbers, it doesn’t make them similar players. Watch not just look

[Miko4rm206Participant]

A classic SHOULDA, WOULDA, COULDA. MJ could have said Dennis Rodman is the best PF ever! That dosent mean its true. Yea its good to have somebody of MJ status Co-Signing you but thats all that it is a cosign.

Women Lie, Men Lie, Numbers don’t.

Since your obviously the Biggest Penny Supporter on this Website I want you to do me a Favor.

I wanna know "Which Year’s" are considered So Call "Prime Penny Years"?  Cause Im pretty sure it was with Shaq. Other than pennys 1st 4 years in the league the rest of his Career is Throwaway! He had the Talent and Could have been better than AI but hes not.

You dont See people saying Gilbert Arenas was better than AI in his prime do you? Just cause he had a couple solid seasons before he got injured.

You dont see people saying "Brandon Roy would have been better than Kobe if he didnt get injured!"

1 to 4 "Decent Seasons" dosent get you into the Hall of Fame and thats exactly what penny had. 4 decent season. 

And dont get me started with the the 95 finals between the Rockets and Magic you got Hakeem and Oneal battling in the paint and Kenny Smith matched up with Penny and they couldnt Win 1 game? Besides Clyde and Hakeem the Rockets only had role players. Your telling me Shaq, Horace, D3, Nick Anderson and Your buddy Penny could not win 1 game? Hell even A.I won 1 game against Kobe and Shaq and it was just AI, Mutombo,Eric Snow and Aaron Mckiee. Think about that when you make your next Ridiculous Comparison.  

Whats the next comparison you gonna do? Micheal Redd better then Jordan? lmfaaooo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallGawd01Participant]

Who’s talking about Hall of Fame? Lol. Your comprehension skills are about the same as your basketball season, the entire post started as who would you draft lol. Not if he was a hall of famer. Penny in his prime was being compared to MJ and Magic, if you want proof, please just ask, and I will glady find some lo =). AI in his prime was never better than Kobe, not better than Tmac, not better than Kidd, or Duncan, or KG lol. And if you say otherwise than I am done.  

[BallGawd01Participant]

Who’s talking about Hall of Fame? Lol. Your comprehension skills are about the same as your basketball season, the entire post started as who would you draft lol. Not if he was a hall of famer. Penny in his prime was being compared to MJ and Magic, if you want proof, please just ask, and I will glady find some lo =). AI in his prime was never better than Kobe, not better than Tmac, not better than Kidd, or Duncan, or KG lol. And if you say otherwise than I am done.  

[Miko4rm206Participant]

A classic SHOULDA, WOULDA, COULDA. MJ could have said Dennis Rodman is the best PF ever! That dosent mean its true. Yea its good to have somebody of MJ status Co-Signing you but thats all that it is a cosign.

Women Lie, Men Lie, Numbers don’t.

Since your obviously the Biggest Penny Supporter on this Website I want you to do me a Favor.

I wanna know "Which Year’s" are considered So Call "Prime Penny Years"?  Cause Im pretty sure it was with Shaq. Other than pennys 1st 4 years in the league the rest of his Career is Throwaway! He had the Talent and Could have been better than AI but hes not.

You dont See people saying Gilbert Arenas was better than AI in his prime do you? Just cause he had a couple solid seasons before he got injured.

You dont see people saying "Brandon Roy would have been better than Kobe if he didnt get injured!"

1 to 4 "Decent Seasons" dosent get you into the Hall of Fame and thats exactly what penny had. 4 decent season. 

And dont get me started with the the 95 finals between the Rockets and Magic you got Hakeem and Oneal battling in the paint and Kenny Smith matched up with Penny and they couldnt Win 1 game? Besides Clyde and Hakeem the Rockets only had role players. Your telling me Shaq, Horace, D3, Nick Anderson and Your buddy Penny could not win 1 game? Hell even A.I won 1 game against Kobe and Shaq and it was just AI, Mutombo,Eric Snow and Aaron Mckiee. Think about that when you make your next Ridiculous Comparison.  

Whats the next comparison you gonna do? Micheal Redd better then Jordan? lmfaaooo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallGawd01Participant]

Your the GM of an NBA team, and witht he first pick of the draft you have the option to draft:

Player A: 6’7 PG/SG/SF(Maybe). Long Arms, Ultra Quick and explosive athlete , Excellent shooting w/ range out to 3. GREAT passer. Good and versatile defender. Ability to post-up smaller guards.

or 

Player B:6’0(?) PG(?)/SG. Long Arms. Lightning quick with excellent athletiscm. Great penetrator, streaky shooter. HUGE HEART, leaves out on the floor every time. Very high volume scorer, doesn’t consistenly get teammates involved, gambles for steals on D, susceptible to post ups from bigger pgs/sg

 

Forget Penny or AI, you are on the clock, who are you drafting, Player A or Player B?

 

 

 

 

  

[BallGawd01Participant]

Your the GM of an NBA team, and witht he first pick of the draft you have the option to draft:

Player A: 6’7 PG/SG/SF(Maybe). Long Arms, Ultra Quick and explosive athlete , Excellent shooting w/ range out to 3. GREAT passer. Good and versatile defender. Ability to post-up smaller guards.

or 

Player B:6’0(?) PG(?)/SG. Long Arms. Lightning quick with excellent athletiscm. Great penetrator, streaky shooter. HUGE HEART, leaves out on the floor every time. Very high volume scorer, doesn’t consistenly get teammates involved, gambles for steals on D, susceptible to post ups from bigger pgs/sg

 

Forget Penny or AI, you are on the clock, who are you drafting, Player A or Player B?

 

 

 

 

  

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 If your comparing careers its Iverson and its not even close. If you are just talking about which player in their prime you’d rather have on your team, I’d be tempted to say penny but I’d probably still go with Iverson. Iverson at his peak was just better than penny ever was in his career. Sadly, we were robbed of ever really seeing penny at his peak. It would have been interesting to see how his career would have progressed in Orlando without shaq. Penny’s another guy that definitely falls into the "what if category".

 

 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 If your comparing careers its Iverson and its not even close. If you are just talking about which player in their prime you’d rather have on your team, I’d be tempted to say penny but I’d probably still go with Iverson. Iverson at his peak was just better than penny ever was in his career. Sadly, we were robbed of ever really seeing penny at his peak. It would have been interesting to see how his career would have progressed in Orlando without shaq. Penny’s another guy that definitely falls into the "what if category".

 

 

[BallGawd01Participant]

Penny was in his peak for about 4 maybe 5 years, and in that span, he was 2x first team All-NBA. Iverson for his entire career was 3x All-NBA first team. You sure he was "just better" or did you just watch the highlights and not actual game footage?  

[BallGawd01Participant]

Penny was in his peak for about 4 maybe 5 years, and in that span, he was 2x first team All-NBA. Iverson for his entire career was 3x All-NBA first team. You sure he was "just better" or did you just watch the highlights and not actual game footage?  

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Penny never had to carry a team the way Iverson did. Injuries robbed us of the chance to see him do that. Iverson in his prime was the type of player that could go off for 45-50 on any given night and carry his team to victory even with entire defenses geared to stop him. His 2001 playoff run was legendary, better than anything penny ever did from 93-97. 

[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Penny never had to carry a team the way Iverson did. Injuries robbed us of the chance to see him do that. Iverson in his prime was the type of player that could go off for 45-50 on any given night and carry his team to victory even with entire defenses geared to stop him. His 2001 playoff run was legendary, better than anything penny ever did from 93-97. 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 You forgot to add the 3x All nba 2nd team and the 1 all nba 3rd teams. Im sure they count for something ; ). 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 You forgot to add the 3x All nba 2nd team and the 1 all nba 3rd teams. Im sure they count for something ; ). 

[MelParticipant]

If we were choosing between the two players:

Allen Iverson- the undersized volume shooter who gambled way too much on defense 

or 

Penny Hardaway- the 6 foot 7 point guard who overmatches 90% of other point guards today and is unselfish.

In 2015, you need unselfish stars that involve their teammates. You see how deep Golden State was? They went like 9 players deep. A star that can involve everybody and drive and dish flourish in todays league. 

I’d take the taller, better playmaker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MelParticipant]

If we were choosing between the two players:

Allen Iverson- the undersized volume shooter who gambled way too much on defense 

or 

Penny Hardaway- the 6 foot 7 point guard who overmatches 90% of other point guards today and is unselfish.

In 2015, you need unselfish stars that involve their teammates. You see how deep Golden State was? They went like 9 players deep. A star that can involve everybody and drive and dish flourish in todays league. 

I’d take the taller, better playmaker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallGawd01Participant]

!!!Your the only person that has used logic. I think people have been going with AI just because of sentimental value, he was a lot of people’s favorite player. But if Iverson played now where analytics, versatility, shooting, and defense are the most important thing. He’d be one of the most criticized players in the league. Tbh he propbaly wouldn’t even be drafted, an undersized, volume-shooting, bad defending SG is not what teams are looking for. Use your heads and not your hearts? 

[BallGawd01Participant]

!!!Your the only person that has used logic. I think people have been going with AI just because of sentimental value, he was a lot of people’s favorite player. But if Iverson played now where analytics, versatility, shooting, and defense are the most important thing. He’d be one of the most criticized players in the league. Tbh he propbaly wouldn’t even be drafted, an undersized, volume-shooting, bad defending SG is not what teams are looking for. Use your heads and not your hearts? 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

A healthy Penny Hardaway would have certainly been a better player than Iverson. At his peak he was a better player than Iverson. I love AI and he was a beast…but Penny was a 6’7 PG with great vision and the ability to move from positions 1-3.  He was not only tall and long for his position but very athletic with a beautiful sense of how to play the game.

The problem with this debate is that it projects what "would have happened". Penny was not able to stay healthy and as a result his physical peak/prime never showed itself. 

But what I saw? It mean he was amazing.

And this is no slight to Iverson who at 6 ft was a physical marvel and freak. Able to score over taller SG’s and attack relentlessly. He put on masterful performances. However; if I may be honest (cue to "he had to shoot 35 times because he had not teammates crew) your team had to be set up a certain way for him to thrive. The best years in Philly were because a team was set up for Iverson to take 30 shots per game while all others did the dirty work; etc.

So if I am picking a player.. I am picking a peak Penny who makes you win. Who makes teammates better and who can thrive in all situations and make ups of a team. 

Again; everyone will have their opinion. I sadly think about the fact that Penny (nor Grant Hill) were able to play through their primes and I as a fan feel cheated because of it. Those 2 were amazing versatile players who would have been the best players in the game easily if they stayed healthy.

 

 

 

 

 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

A healthy Penny Hardaway would have certainly been a better player than Iverson. At his peak he was a better player than Iverson. I love AI and he was a beast…but Penny was a 6’7 PG with great vision and the ability to move from positions 1-3.  He was not only tall and long for his position but very athletic with a beautiful sense of how to play the game.

The problem with this debate is that it projects what "would have happened". Penny was not able to stay healthy and as a result his physical peak/prime never showed itself. 

But what I saw? It mean he was amazing.

And this is no slight to Iverson who at 6 ft was a physical marvel and freak. Able to score over taller SG’s and attack relentlessly. He put on masterful performances. However; if I may be honest (cue to "he had to shoot 35 times because he had not teammates crew) your team had to be set up a certain way for him to thrive. The best years in Philly were because a team was set up for Iverson to take 30 shots per game while all others did the dirty work; etc.

So if I am picking a player.. I am picking a peak Penny who makes you win. Who makes teammates better and who can thrive in all situations and make ups of a team. 

Again; everyone will have their opinion. I sadly think about the fact that Penny (nor Grant Hill) were able to play through their primes and I as a fan feel cheated because of it. Those 2 were amazing versatile players who would have been the best players in the game easily if they stayed healthy.

 

 

 

 

 

[JR RyderParticipant]

Iverson > Penny

As great as Penny was, I never really saw him as a first option type player. Once Shaq left the Magics, it showed exactly just that. Much like Scottie Pippen who I never saw as a first option player who can carry a team. Iverson did those things and he did it his entire career.

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 ….Penny had knee issues. First year after Shaq left he was somewhat healthy and averaged 21, 6 and 5. Then the knee issues started and that was the end of his physical peak. Sad. Penny could score, pass, do it all. His greatness was in his ability to make his teammates better while still being a great scoring threat. 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 ….Penny had knee issues. First year after Shaq left he was somewhat healthy and averaged 21, 6 and 5. Then the knee issues started and that was the end of his physical peak. Sad. Penny could score, pass, do it all. His greatness was in his ability to make his teammates better while still being a great scoring threat. 

[JR RyderParticipant]

Iverson > Penny

As great as Penny was, I never really saw him as a first option type player. Once Shaq left the Magics, it showed exactly just that. Much like Scottie Pippen who I never saw as a first option player who can carry a team. Iverson did those things and he did it his entire career.

[llperez]

 iverson impact on the game and ability to take over was greater then hardaways, this one really isnt a very close debate.

[BallGawd01Participant]

Iverson impacted the game in only one way…scoring 

[llperez]

 Scoring in a dominant fashion like few in league history have been able to and drawing fouls and drawing double teams and making the other team adjust their entire defense. Remember iverson averaged more assists then Hardaway and was able to get other guys easy baskets. Iverson won mvp, Hardaway was never in the mvp discussion even when he made all first team he wasn’t close to being  Mvp. I’m honestly more of a fan of penny. He was the first jersey I ever bought and I still own it to this day 20 years later. I’ve only gone out of my way to buy a players rookie card twice in my whole life and one of those was hardaways. I’m defenitely a bigger fan of his. But people are overblowing him by putting him in the same convo with iverson. Iverson carried his team to finals and even won a game by himself dropping 50 in the Lakers. 

[llperez]

 Scoring in a dominant fashion like few in league history have been able to and drawing fouls and drawing double teams and making the other team adjust their entire defense. Remember iverson averaged more assists then Hardaway and was able to get other guys easy baskets. Iverson won mvp, Hardaway was never in the mvp discussion even when he made all first team he wasn’t close to being  Mvp. I’m honestly more of a fan of penny. He was the first jersey I ever bought and I still own it to this day 20 years later. I’ve only gone out of my way to buy a players rookie card twice in my whole life and one of those was hardaways. I’m defenitely a bigger fan of his. But people are overblowing him by putting him in the same convo with iverson. Iverson carried his team to finals and even won a game by himself dropping 50 in the Lakers. 

[BallGawd01Participant]

Iverson impacted the game in only one way…scoring 

[llperez]

 iverson impact on the game and ability to take over was greater then hardaways, this one really isnt a very close debate.

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

Not close either. I like Iverson but i watched both and i was old enough to see and remember all their peak years well. Penny all day at prime athletic ability. 

[Meditated StatesParticipant]

Not close either. I like Iverson but i watched both and i was old enough to see and remember all their peak years well. Penny all day at prime athletic ability. 

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

I take offense to this debate!

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

I take offense to this debate!

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

Both offence & offense!

[BubbaChuckParticipant]

Both offence & offense!

[BallGawd01Participant]

I am in no way trying to disrespect Allen Iverson, he’s an all-time great competitor and has the biggest heart of anyone in NBA history. I was born in the early 90’s I’m not some old head who just like "old-school" basketball, I had a chance to watch Penny play is his prime, and for those of you who didn’t you missed out on something special. The guy could literally DO IT ALL. Yeah he played with Shaq but he was a top player in the league. The entire part of the argument is all subjective pretty much. the question was, IF YOU WERE DRAFTING A PLAYER?! Not, Who had a better career. That would obviously go to Iverson, who played at an elite level far longer than Penny, due to Penny’s injury’s. I understand Iverson probably has the sentimental vote for most because he was a 6’0(Maybe less) player who consistently attacked the basket, played tough, and laid it all out, all valid points. But think for a second, who would you rather play with? AI could only play with a certain type of team, he HAD to be the only ball-handler/scorer, he wasn’t versatile enough to play any other way. You could slot Penny on ANY team and he could fit seamlessly. Always got his teammates involved, efficient scorer, excellent shooter, great defender. Allen Iverson had the better career, everyone knows that, but who would you draft for your team? Think about both of their style of play AND NOT THEIR STATS! Honestly I hate when people use stats to compare players, its not a fair comparison. You have to take into account team the players played on, minutes, coaching, injuries for the team. So many factors go into player stats. Someone earlier said DWill and Penny were similar players because they put up somewhat similar stats?!?! Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, everyone knows they have completely different. Don’t just say AI was the better player because he had better stats in his prime, thats a cop-out, Penny put up very good stats, but he played within a team concept and he wasn’t the only player on his team shooting. But anyway like I said, its in no way to disrespect AI. But if you were building a team, "Who would you draft"? 

 

BTW I just LOVE basketball so discussions like this get me going, I love the responses, please keep em coming!!

 

 

[BallGawd01Participant]

I am in no way trying to disrespect Allen Iverson, he’s an all-time great competitor and has the biggest heart of anyone in NBA history. I was born in the early 90’s I’m not some old head who just like "old-school" basketball, I had a chance to watch Penny play is his prime, and for those of you who didn’t you missed out on something special. The guy could literally DO IT ALL. Yeah he played with Shaq but he was a top player in the league. The entire part of the argument is all subjective pretty much. the question was, IF YOU WERE DRAFTING A PLAYER?! Not, Who had a better career. That would obviously go to Iverson, who played at an elite level far longer than Penny, due to Penny’s injury’s. I understand Iverson probably has the sentimental vote for most because he was a 6’0(Maybe less) player who consistently attacked the basket, played tough, and laid it all out, all valid points. But think for a second, who would you rather play with? AI could only play with a certain type of team, he HAD to be the only ball-handler/scorer, he wasn’t versatile enough to play any other way. You could slot Penny on ANY team and he could fit seamlessly. Always got his teammates involved, efficient scorer, excellent shooter, great defender. Allen Iverson had the better career, everyone knows that, but who would you draft for your team? Think about both of their style of play AND NOT THEIR STATS! Honestly I hate when people use stats to compare players, its not a fair comparison. You have to take into account team the players played on, minutes, coaching, injuries for the team. So many factors go into player stats. Someone earlier said DWill and Penny were similar players because they put up somewhat similar stats?!?! Thats the dumbest thing I ever heard, everyone knows they have completely different. Don’t just say AI was the better player because he had better stats in his prime, thats a cop-out, Penny put up very good stats, but he played within a team concept and he wasn’t the only player on his team shooting. But anyway like I said, its in no way to disrespect AI. But if you were building a team, "Who would you draft"? 

 

BTW I just LOVE basketball so discussions like this get me going, I love the responses, please keep em coming!!

 

 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 AI came in the league averaging 22pts 7 ast as a ROOKIE!  Pennys best year he averaged 22 pts 7ast that was A.I’s Floor numbers for the last Decade +

Lets look at Passing since  you "think" penny was such a great passer. With a big such as Shaq, shooters as such as  Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson he only avg 7 ast, in His prime! That is not great a great number. I see the Vision, Ball Handling and the Flashy Passes but like i siad before Women lie , Men Lie numbers dont. Kobe avgered 7 ast too! Once upon a time with shaq. Iverson Avg 8 ast at a point in time and that was just with IGGY and a aging Chris Webber. You look at some of the best passers Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, John Stockton,cp3.( All Pgs i would take over Hardaway as well) were certified Dimers and in their Primes and were walking Double Doubles.Giving the fact that Hardaway was 6’7 and  could see over most defenses and probably had 1 of the most talented teams To "NOT" win a championship lol and get SWEPT by Kenny Smith and the Rockets. SMH. I think his passing may be a little overrated and although i would say he was a better passer than A.I by a Slight margin its mainly b/c Hardaway was a more willing passer and that 6’7 frame makes a different as well.

Allen iverson was as Top Notch Athlete too. Could have gotten into the NFL just as he did the NBA. When he 1st came into the league he had plenty of Above the Rim moments as well. Could play either guard position better then Hardaway but of course at 6’7 you could slide hardaway to the 3 so i guess hardaway can be considered more versatile to and a better defender then A.I too but wait!

I youtubed a couple of  A.I vs Penny games on youtube to see some head to head action between the 2. Although there was a couple games between the 2. It was basically ROOKIE A.I vs a PRIME PENNY and Iverson was FRYING Hardaway along with Darrell Armstrong. Im talking about Blocking Pennys shot, Sending it to the Backcourt at 6’0 then Dunking at the other end within 3 seconds. like come on dog, You sholda done your research  before Posting a thread like this

 

 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 AI came in the league averaging 22pts 7 ast as a ROOKIE!  Pennys best year he averaged 22 pts 7ast that was A.I’s Floor numbers for the last Decade +

Lets look at Passing since  you "think" penny was such a great passer. With a big such as Shaq, shooters as such as  Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson he only avg 7 ast, in His prime! That is not great a great number. I see the Vision, Ball Handling and the Flashy Passes but like i siad before Women lie , Men Lie numbers dont. Kobe avgered 7 ast too! Once upon a time with shaq. Iverson Avg 8 ast at a point in time and that was just with IGGY and a aging Chris Webber. You look at some of the best passers Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, John Stockton,cp3.( All Pgs i would take over Hardaway as well) were certified Dimers and in their Primes and were walking Double Doubles.Giving the fact that Hardaway was 6’7 and  could see over most defenses and probably had 1 of the most talented teams To "NOT" win a championship lol and get SWEPT by Kenny Smith and the Rockets. SMH. I think his passing may be a little overrated and although i would say he was a better passer than A.I by a Slight margin its mainly b/c Hardaway was a more willing passer and that 6’7 frame makes a different as well.

Allen iverson was as Top Notch Athlete too. Could have gotten into the NFL just as he did the NBA. When he 1st came into the league he had plenty of Above the Rim moments as well. Could play either guard position better then Hardaway but of course at 6’7 you could slide hardaway to the 3 so i guess hardaway can be considered more versatile to and a better defender then A.I too but wait!

I youtubed a couple of  A.I vs Penny games on youtube to see some head to head action between the 2. Although there was a couple games between the 2. It was basically ROOKIE A.I vs a PRIME PENNY and Iverson was FRYING Hardaway along with Darrell Armstrong. Im talking about Blocking Pennys shot, Sending it to the Backcourt at 6’0 then Dunking at the other end within 3 seconds. like come on dog, You sholda done your research  before Posting a thread like this

 

 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 With respect to your points made about assists per game and other numbers…numbers can lie.

When Penny Hardaway is on your team…the ball simply moves better than when Iverson is on the floor. Guys are likely more willing to sprint the floor or be in the right spot because you know that Penny will find you if you are open. Now does that always lead to an "assist"? Not necessarily…but it always leads to a good shot. And that’s the myth of some player’s assist numbers.

Russell Westbrook averages more assists per game than Lebron James this past year…however; who is the better passer? Who is the more unselfish player?

So in this case I would never try to use a number to make a case that Iverson was half the passer Penny Hardaway was. It simply would be using a number to justify an opinion that the film does not support.

Analytics should be used with film to evaluate a player. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 I gave the nod to Penny over A.I passing the ball because  Hardaway was 6’7 and could easily see over defenses and he had  alot of talent on his team and was more willing to pass than Iverson. All true Facts.

But The thing that I dont get is when K.D went down nobody was bashing Russell westbrook for being ball dominant and taking over games with his scoring. When Love and Kyrie went down during the finals nobody was bashing Lebron James for shooting 14-34 for 40 pts and 8ast. You wanna know why? Because they had to do it they knew if they didnt their teams had no CHANCE of Winning. Now think about that and go back and look at the teams that Iverson was on with his tenure with the 76ers before you even try to say Iverson was half the passer that hardaway was when A.I clearly had half the team compared to hardaway with Shaq, D3, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant. Hell Kobe avg 7ast once upon a time with Shaq too. Its not that hard with a Dominant Big man to put up assist.

So when you ask who is the better passer its arguable but it would most likely go to a 6’7 hardaway just b/c he was 6’7  and a more willing passer but I want you also take in account that the season that shaq left Hardaways numbers overarall took a dip as well. Just like that dude Ballgawd01 when I bring out the Facts or If you watched any of A.I vs Hardaway  games  you will see how stupid of a debate this was

 

 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 I gave the nod to Penny over A.I passing the ball because  Hardaway was 6’7 and could easily see over defenses and he had  alot of talent on his team and was more willing to pass than Iverson. All true Facts.

But The thing that I dont get is when K.D went down nobody was bashing Russell westbrook for being ball dominant and taking over games with his scoring. When Love and Kyrie went down during the finals nobody was bashing Lebron James for shooting 14-34 for 40 pts and 8ast. You wanna know why? Because they had to do it they knew if they didnt their teams had no CHANCE of Winning. Now think about that and go back and look at the teams that Iverson was on with his tenure with the 76ers before you even try to say Iverson was half the passer that hardaway was when A.I clearly had half the team compared to hardaway with Shaq, D3, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant. Hell Kobe avg 7ast once upon a time with Shaq too. Its not that hard with a Dominant Big man to put up assist.

So when you ask who is the better passer its arguable but it would most likely go to a 6’7 hardaway just b/c he was 6’7  and a more willing passer but I want you also take in account that the season that shaq left Hardaways numbers overarall took a dip as well. Just like that dude Ballgawd01 when I bring out the Facts or If you watched any of A.I vs Hardaway  games  you will see how stupid of a debate this was

 

 

[ThepessimestParticipant]

 With respect to your points made about assists per game and other numbers…numbers can lie.

When Penny Hardaway is on your team…the ball simply moves better than when Iverson is on the floor. Guys are likely more willing to sprint the floor or be in the right spot because you know that Penny will find you if you are open. Now does that always lead to an "assist"? Not necessarily…but it always leads to a good shot. And that’s the myth of some player’s assist numbers.

Russell Westbrook averages more assists per game than Lebron James this past year…however; who is the better passer? Who is the more unselfish player?

So in this case I would never try to use a number to make a case that Iverson was half the passer Penny Hardaway was. It simply would be using a number to justify an opinion that the film does not support.

Analytics should be used with film to evaluate a player. 

 

 

 

 

 

[T Rex]

 Penny never had a prime. His "best seasons" weren’t even his prime. We never got to see his prime, even though he played after the injuries.

[T Rex]

 Penny never had a prime. His "best seasons" weren’t even his prime. We never got to see his prime, even though he played after the injuries.

[HitsterParticipant]

 AI and Penny were different types of guards, Penny was put alongside Jason Kidd at Phoenix to allow Kidd to create for him. I don’t figure how AI would have played in what would have been an SG role effectively.

Penny was also 6 inches plus taller than AI so I don’t see the comparison there either. Sadly injuries wrecked Penny’s career as he was right up there with the best for a couple of years, you don’t make NBA first teams alongside 4 automatic HOF entries if you cannot play to an elite level.

AI was one of the greatest scorers ever but didn’t fit into team roles as well as other great players or maybe didn’t have the right supporting crew. It is virtually impossible to win a title alone even MJ had Pippen and Rodman as his running mates. AI played so many minutes that his career probably finished sooner than it should have done.

It’s ironic that in their post NBA lives, Penny seems to have been a lot more successful than AI has been.

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

 AI and Penny were different types of guards, Penny was put alongside Jason Kidd at Phoenix to allow Kidd to create for him. I don’t figure how AI would have played in what would have been an SG role effectively.

Penny was also 6 inches plus taller than AI so I don’t see the comparison there either. Sadly injuries wrecked Penny’s career as he was right up there with the best for a couple of years, you don’t make NBA first teams alongside 4 automatic HOF entries if you cannot play to an elite level.

AI was one of the greatest scorers ever but didn’t fit into team roles as well as other great players or maybe didn’t have the right supporting crew. It is virtually impossible to win a title alone even MJ had Pippen and Rodman as his running mates. AI played so many minutes that his career probably finished sooner than it should have done.

It’s ironic that in their post NBA lives, Penny seems to have been a lot more successful than AI has been.

 

 

 

[llperez]

 people can say whatever they want about iversons negatives in terms of efficency or taking too many shots, but the dude was able to absolutely take over games. Iverson on the fast break was one of the scariest things in the league for awhile becasue all you could do was foul he changed direction so quick. Penny was very good and i watched his whole career, was watching before he came into the league, but come on guys his best years pale in comparion to iversons best years. For all the he made his teammates better talk, he didnt even get as many assists as iverson. both were poor defensive players so thats kind of a wash. 

[llperez]

 people can say whatever they want about iversons negatives in terms of efficency or taking too many shots, but the dude was able to absolutely take over games. Iverson on the fast break was one of the scariest things in the league for awhile becasue all you could do was foul he changed direction so quick. Penny was very good and i watched his whole career, was watching before he came into the league, but come on guys his best years pale in comparion to iversons best years. For all the he made his teammates better talk, he didnt even get as many assists as iverson. both were poor defensive players so thats kind of a wash. 

[BallGawd01Participant]

Dude your basketball knowledge is literally on a 0 smh. I could tell your one of those people that take flash over substance, crossovers and nice moves get you wet smh. I don’t know if you can read or not, but numbers don’t always tell the story, as I’ve said a million times. But if you wanna use numbers. Allen Iverson was/is the most INEFFICIENT player in NBA history bar-none. Ok rookie AI averaged 22 & 7. He also shot the ball 20x per game, and averaged more than 4 turnovers. Iverson was able to put up such exceptional numbers because he was such a high-volume scorer. He also played a TON of minutes, not that there’s anything wrong with that it speaks to his conditioning and toughness, but minutes also INFLATE numbers if you didn’t know that. Penny was at his peak from 93-94 until 96-97 until the injuries started mounting. During that time, he never averaged more than 16 shot attempts per game, never played more than 37 minutes per game, which is why his raw box score totals don’t match with AI’s, even though he was FAR more efficient. Iverson’s assits DECLINED for 4 STRAIGHT SEASONS! Ask anyone who knows ANYTHING about basketball and they’d say Penny was the far superior passer to AI. Assists don’t tell the entire story of being a PG as well, Steph Curry averages about 7-8 assists, not 12-13, does that mean he’s not a great PG? No it doesn’t, Gary Payton never averaged 10+ Apg, is he not a great PG? Penny didn’t average 10+, but he was such a great scorer, and he knew how to score while also keeping everyone involved. Once again I’m not saying Penny is better than these players for their entire career, but other than CP3 the rest of those guys weren’t great scorers which is why they put up great assits numbers. None of those guys other than CP averaged 20ppg in any season of their career, and if I’m being honest I’d take those guys over AI hands down, and if you disagree your lying to try and win this argument. You keep saying they got swept by the Rockets, Penny was in his 2nd year the league, Shaq was in his 3rd, they were MAD YOUNG. The Rockets had just won the championship the year before and were a 6 seed in the west, they KNEW HOW TO WIN. Iverson was a top notch athlete, but Penny more athletic AND he was bigger. Dude dunked on some of the best shotblockers of his era (Go watch when he dunked on Ewing, classic!) Finally Iverson came into NBA 1996-97, Hardaway’s injuries started to first begin the same year, so whatever "youtube" clip you watched Penny was not in his prime. I do remeber however, of watchin ACTUAL game footage of Penny scoring 38 on the Bulls in 1996 ECF, you know that same Bulls team with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that won 72 games lol. You keep saying I’m this big Penny supporter but I’ve watched more AI games than Penny games tbh, my favorite player of all-time is Kobe Bryant, so I’m very very current. I just know a lot of basketball, and my position stands, if he had remained healthy and injuries did not plague him we would all be talking differently about Penny. You my friend should not argue about basketball with me anymore, I will school you in any which way, if you wanna use numbers, use all the numbers like shot attempts, fg%, turnovers, not just the ones that suit your argument. 6’0 Volume scorer vs 6’6 do it all player WHO ARE YOU DRAFTING?

[BallGawd01Participant]

Dude your basketball knowledge is literally on a 0 smh. I could tell your one of those people that take flash over substance, crossovers and nice moves get you wet smh. I don’t know if you can read or not, but numbers don’t always tell the story, as I’ve said a million times. But if you wanna use numbers. Allen Iverson was/is the most INEFFICIENT player in NBA history bar-none. Ok rookie AI averaged 22 & 7. He also shot the ball 20x per game, and averaged more than 4 turnovers. Iverson was able to put up such exceptional numbers because he was such a high-volume scorer. He also played a TON of minutes, not that there’s anything wrong with that it speaks to his conditioning and toughness, but minutes also INFLATE numbers if you didn’t know that. Penny was at his peak from 93-94 until 96-97 until the injuries started mounting. During that time, he never averaged more than 16 shot attempts per game, never played more than 37 minutes per game, which is why his raw box score totals don’t match with AI’s, even though he was FAR more efficient. Iverson’s assits DECLINED for 4 STRAIGHT SEASONS! Ask anyone who knows ANYTHING about basketball and they’d say Penny was the far superior passer to AI. Assists don’t tell the entire story of being a PG as well, Steph Curry averages about 7-8 assists, not 12-13, does that mean he’s not a great PG? No it doesn’t, Gary Payton never averaged 10+ Apg, is he not a great PG? Penny didn’t average 10+, but he was such a great scorer, and he knew how to score while also keeping everyone involved. Once again I’m not saying Penny is better than these players for their entire career, but other than CP3 the rest of those guys weren’t great scorers which is why they put up great assits numbers. None of those guys other than CP averaged 20ppg in any season of their career, and if I’m being honest I’d take those guys over AI hands down, and if you disagree your lying to try and win this argument. You keep saying they got swept by the Rockets, Penny was in his 2nd year the league, Shaq was in his 3rd, they were MAD YOUNG. The Rockets had just won the championship the year before and were a 6 seed in the west, they KNEW HOW TO WIN. Iverson was a top notch athlete, but Penny more athletic AND he was bigger. Dude dunked on some of the best shotblockers of his era (Go watch when he dunked on Ewing, classic!) Finally Iverson came into NBA 1996-97, Hardaway’s injuries started to first begin the same year, so whatever "youtube" clip you watched Penny was not in his prime. I do remeber however, of watchin ACTUAL game footage of Penny scoring 38 on the Bulls in 1996 ECF, you know that same Bulls team with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that won 72 games lol. You keep saying I’m this big Penny supporter but I’ve watched more AI games than Penny games tbh, my favorite player of all-time is Kobe Bryant, so I’m very very current. I just know a lot of basketball, and my position stands, if he had remained healthy and injuries did not plague him we would all be talking differently about Penny. You my friend should not argue about basketball with me anymore, I will school you in any which way, if you wanna use numbers, use all the numbers like shot attempts, fg%, turnovers, not just the ones that suit your argument. 6’0 Volume scorer vs 6’6 do it all player WHO ARE YOU DRAFTING?

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 

Since your so in Denial or just love you some Penny Hardaway we are going to look at facts from stats,career, head to head matchups etc.

By the time A.I came into the league Penny was in his 4th year (his last decent year). And just to be fair I am comparing a rookie A.I to a 4th yr player in Penny here are the stats between the 2 for that year.

 

1996–97

Philadelphia

76

74

40.1

.418

.341

.702

4.1

7.5

2.1

.3

23.5

and

 

1996–97

Orlando

59

59

37.6

.447

.318

.820

4.5

5.6

1.6

0.6

20.5

Now there are about 3-4 youtube videos Of Penny vs A.I on youtube or should I say videos of Iverson frying Hardaway. My favorite video between the 2 is titled "NBA GREATEST DUAL Allen Iverson vs Penny Hardaway." And this goes for anybody thats like this BONEHEAD BALLGawd01 that even for  second thought Hardaway was better than A.I>

And I dont even know why you even started to Justify how the Magic got Swept by the Rockets. I dont care if the ROCKETS won the Championship the year prior. The Magic had way more talent and couldnt just get 1 game! Hakeem was as dominant as ever but your countering him with Shaq plus have KEnny Smith guarding Hardaway like c’mon. They couldnt get 1 win not even at home? Theres no Doubt the Magic was the favorite going into that game. Counter that with Allen iverson taking his team to the Finals just him Mckiee,Mutombo, and Eric Snow agaisnt Kobe and Shaq one of the greatest duos in the NBA even he wheeled his team to 1 win with WAAAAAAYYYYYYY worst talent surrounding him.

You cant help who you are drafted by  or the talent surrounding you. You can say that Iverson is the most Inefficient scorer of all time thats cools, cause A.I took alot of shots, he was a little turn over proned, He was ball dominant thats cool, At the end of the day the just like the 76ers arent nothing now they wasnt nothng before they drafted A.I and just that 1 dude turned them into a playoff team and took them into the playoffs. 

 How would have Iverson been with a Dominant big? Just like how good Penny would have been w/o the knee problems?Both good questions but we can only speculate. Penny could have been real good but 22pts 7 ast as his career prime numbers is not gonna cut it. You dont get extra points for dunking,crossing, or diming somebody in a Jaw Dropping fashion I can see where your saying that his numbers arent telling his whole story when it comes to his skill level and you got to actually watch him but at the end of the day he put up decent numbers. In todays game 22pts 7ast will get him into a allstar game in the (eastern conference for sure) I dont think i would put him over Steph,Russell or Cp3 tho.

As for your draft question. Im still taking A.I if I was just watching the 2 in H.s and College not knowing how their careers will end up. I am taking the "ACTUAL" 1st rd 1st pick A.I if i was the 76ers in the 96 draft.  Which is A.I from Georgetown. A.I just has that edge over great guards, kinda like westbrook today, that relentlessness always attacking intensity. A.I was that back then and then some.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miko4rm206Participant]

 

Since your so in Denial or just love you some Penny Hardaway we are going to look at facts from stats,career, head to head matchups etc.

By the time A.I came into the league Penny was in his 4th year (his last decent year). And just to be fair I am comparing a rookie A.I to a 4th yr player in Penny here are the stats between the 2 for that year.

 

1996–97

Philadelphia

76

74

40.1

.418

.341

.702

4.1

7.5

2.1

.3

23.5

and

 

1996–97

Orlando

59

59

37.6

.447

.318

.820

4.5

5.6

1.6

0.6

20.5

Now there are about 3-4 youtube videos Of Penny vs A.I on youtube or should I say videos of Iverson frying Hardaway. My favorite video between the 2 is titled "NBA GREATEST DUAL Allen Iverson vs Penny Hardaway." And this goes for anybody thats like this BONEHEAD BALLGawd01 that even for  second thought Hardaway was better than A.I>

And I dont even know why you even started to Justify how the Magic got Swept by the Rockets. I dont care if the ROCKETS won the Championship the year prior. The Magic had way more talent and couldnt just get 1 game! Hakeem was as dominant as ever but your countering him with Shaq plus have KEnny Smith guarding Hardaway like c’mon. They couldnt get 1 win not even at home? Theres no Doubt the Magic was the favorite going into that game. Counter that with Allen iverson taking his team to the Finals just him Mckiee,Mutombo, and Eric Snow agaisnt Kobe and Shaq one of the greatest duos in the NBA even he wheeled his team to 1 win with WAAAAAAYYYYYYY worst talent surrounding him.

You cant help who you are drafted by  or the talent surrounding you. You can say that Iverson is the most Inefficient scorer of all time thats cools, cause A.I took alot of shots, he was a little turn over proned, He was ball dominant thats cool, At the end of the day the just like the 76ers arent nothing now they wasnt nothng before they drafted A.I and just that 1 dude turned them into a playoff team and took them into the playoffs. 

 How would have Iverson been with a Dominant big? Just like how good Penny would have been w/o the knee problems?Both good questions but we can only speculate. Penny could have been real good but 22pts 7 ast as his career prime numbers is not gonna cut it. You dont get extra points for dunking,crossing, or diming somebody in a Jaw Dropping fashion I can see where your saying that his numbers arent telling his whole story when it comes to his skill level and you got to actually watch him but at the end of the day he put up decent numbers. In todays game 22pts 7ast will get him into a allstar game in the (eastern conference for sure) I dont think i would put him over Steph,Russell or Cp3 tho.

As for your draft question. Im still taking A.I if I was just watching the 2 in H.s and College not knowing how their careers will end up. I am taking the "ACTUAL" 1st rd 1st pick A.I if i was the 76ers in the 96 draft.  Which is A.I from Georgetown. A.I just has that edge over great guards, kinda like westbrook today, that relentlessness always attacking intensity. A.I was that back then and then some.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RioRepParticipant]

 This became a great debate! I didn’t read’em all, but I can surely say that there is no comparison. AI is propably, pound for pound, the greatest bball player under 6-feet in the history of the game. The only guy he could be compared with is Isaiah Thomas. And they were completly diferent players, Isiah being more of a point guard, more of a leader and more of a champion. Don’t get me wrong, Penny was, and moreover, could have been one of the greatest. But… Yes, but he wasn’t. AI was. 

And for the guy that sair that he could be as good as Jordan, if he could find the best situation, Jordan matured and plowed the field for the best situation, something AI could never have done. So AI was great, but can never be mentioned on the same breath as Jordan. Nor Magic.

[RioRepParticipant]

 This became a great debate! I didn’t read’em all, but I can surely say that there is no comparison. AI is propably, pound for pound, the greatest bball player under 6-feet in the history of the game. The only guy he could be compared with is Isaiah Thomas. And they were completly diferent players, Isiah being more of a point guard, more of a leader and more of a champion. Don’t get me wrong, Penny was, and moreover, could have been one of the greatest. But… Yes, but he wasn’t. AI was. 

And for the guy that sair that he could be as good as Jordan, if he could find the best situation, Jordan matured and plowed the field for the best situation, something AI could never have done. So AI was great, but can never be mentioned on the same breath as Jordan. Nor Magic.

[RioRepParticipant]

 This became a great debate! I didn’t read’em all, but I can surely say that there is no comparison. AI is propably, pound for pound, the greatest bball player under 6-feet in the history of the game. The only guy he could be compared with is Isaiah Thomas. And they were completly diferent players, Isiah being more of a point guard, more of a leader and more of a champion. Don’t get me wrong, Penny was, and moreover, could have been one of the greatest. But… Yes, but he wasn’t. AI was. 

And for the guy that sair that he could be as good as Jordan, if he could find the best situation, Jordan matured and plowed the field for the best situation, something AI could never have done. So AI was great, but can never be mentioned on the same breath as Jordan. Nor Magic.

[RioRepParticipant]

 This became a great debate! I didn’t read’em all, but I can surely say that there is no comparison. AI is propably, pound for pound, the greatest bball player under 6-feet in the history of the game. The only guy he could be compared with is Isaiah Thomas. And they were completly diferent players, Isiah being more of a point guard, more of a leader and more of a champion. Don’t get me wrong, Penny was, and moreover, could have been one of the greatest. But… Yes, but he wasn’t. AI was. 

And for the guy that sair that he could be as good as Jordan, if he could find the best situation, Jordan matured and plowed the field for the best situation, something AI could never have done. So AI was great, but can never be mentioned on the same breath as Jordan. Nor Magic.

[Author]

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