This topic contains 110 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by ItsVictorOladipo 10 years, 8 months ago.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:37am #51323
IndianaBasketballParticipantIt’s hard to call a Hall of Fame player overrated, but what players do you think, despite being great, seem to just get hyped up a little too much?
My player is Oscar Robertson. I’m not saying he shouldn’t be in the top ten or top 15, but I just think he’s overrated. I’ve seen him listed in the top five.
I understand he put up ridiculous numbers and basically averaged a triple double his first four years in the NBA, but I was looking at his team’s records and saw that his team missed the playoffs three consecutive seasons (1967/1968 – 1969/1970). Looking at his teams’ records (before Milwaukee), his teams were never really THAT great. There were a lot of first round exits. Before he played for Milwaukee, his teams only made it past the first round twice. Missed the playoffs four times… Four first round exits.
Robertson’s teams never really went anywhere, until he played for Milwaukee, but he wasn’t even the best player on that team. The year they won the title in 1970-1971, that was Kareem Abdul-Jabar’s, who was averaging 32 and 16, team.
Once again… Not saying he isn’t great, but just think he’s somewhat overrated in people’s minds just because of the triple double talk. I view him as an old school version of LeBron James. Not the Miami version LeBron of the last two seasons, but of the Cleveland LeBron.
Who’s your overrated all-time great?
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:45am #822087
canesboy6ParticipantThis subject is always gonna get negs. They are all time greats for a reason.
The one guy that comes up to me has got to be Bill Russell. Not because he wasn’t a great winner or player, but his 11 titles get brought up all the time. The reality is, the league wasn’t nearly as competitive then as it is now. So you have to take numbers like that with an enourmous grain of salt because they didn’t have the measures in place to keep teams fair at the time.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:45am #821988
canesboy6ParticipantThis subject is always gonna get negs. They are all time greats for a reason.
The one guy that comes up to me has got to be Bill Russell. Not because he wasn’t a great winner or player, but his 11 titles get brought up all the time. The reality is, the league wasn’t nearly as competitive then as it is now. So you have to take numbers like that with an enourmous grain of salt because they didn’t have the measures in place to keep teams fair at the time.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:46am #822069
Toronto16ParticipantSir, I just don’t understand how a man averages a triple double and can be over rated.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:46am #821970
Toronto16ParticipantSir, I just don’t understand how a man averages a triple double and can be over rated.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:11pm #825231
bouncem24949ParticipantSo if people can make the argument that WILT is overrated they can surely make an argument that says Oscar is overrated. And i will stand behind this Oscar being slightly over rated. He was never the best player on a NBA championship team therefor I can not put him in the top 10 players of all time. Yes he did average a triple double, big deal he played around the same time as Wilt, Wilt scored 100 averaged 50 and 25, led the league in assists one year not to mention he did pull down 55 rebounds one game.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:11pm #825336
bouncem24949ParticipantSo if people can make the argument that WILT is overrated they can surely make an argument that says Oscar is overrated. And i will stand behind this Oscar being slightly over rated. He was never the best player on a NBA championship team therefor I can not put him in the top 10 players of all time. Yes he did average a triple double, big deal he played around the same time as Wilt, Wilt scored 100 averaged 50 and 25, led the league in assists one year not to mention he did pull down 55 rebounds one game.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:46am #822071
JoeWolf1Bill Walton – Bill was a dominant NCAA player, NBA champion and elite player in his early years. Injuries destroyed his high level play, but he was still able to reinvent himself as a key part of some very good Celtics teams. It’s not that Walton wasn’t a great player, but that his level of dominance was cut short.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:46am #821972
JoeWolf1Bill Walton – Bill was a dominant NCAA player, NBA champion and elite player in his early years. Injuries destroyed his high level play, but he was still able to reinvent himself as a key part of some very good Celtics teams. It’s not that Walton wasn’t a great player, but that his level of dominance was cut short.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:50am #822091
AmiableBaller34ParticipantMagic Johnson made a lot of people look good, and that’s all I’m going to say
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:50am #821992
AmiableBaller34ParticipantMagic Johnson made a lot of people look good, and that’s all I’m going to say
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:51am #822083
jjbutler73ParticipantOr Robert Horry is the greatest power forward ever and Randy Brown is a top 5 point guard.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:51am #821984
jjbutler73ParticipantOr Robert Horry is the greatest power forward ever and Randy Brown is a top 5 point guard.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:05am #822097
PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipantOver-rated? Was Oscar R. over-rated when he helped the Lakers to a 66-16 record? Was he over-rated recording triple doubles for an entire season as a shooting guard when nobody else knew what it was? He won olympic gold. He shaped basketball freeagency in a landmark court case. He was the Jackie Robinson of basketball standing up for rights. What else did you expect out him?
It is crazy to call a player over-rated that help shape modern day basketball the same way Jackie Robinson/Ruth/Cobb/Gehrig etc. did for baseball.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:05am #821998
PurpleMonkeyDishwasherParticipantOver-rated? Was Oscar R. over-rated when he helped the Lakers to a 66-16 record? Was he over-rated recording triple doubles for an entire season as a shooting guard when nobody else knew what it was? He won olympic gold. He shaped basketball freeagency in a landmark court case. He was the Jackie Robinson of basketball standing up for rights. What else did you expect out him?
It is crazy to call a player over-rated that help shape modern day basketball the same way Jackie Robinson/Ruth/Cobb/Gehrig etc. did for baseball.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:18am #822109
dcaseParticipantHelped the Lakers?
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:18am #822010
dcaseParticipantHelped the Lakers?
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:36am #822016
IndianaBasketballParticipantYou meant the Bucks, not the Lakers. And Kareem Abdul-Jabar was averaging 32-16 rebounds on that squad.
And dude… Get out of here bringing up African American rights, etc. You know good and damn well nothing I posted had anything to do with that. Robertson is from Indianapolis, IN and I’m WELL AWARE of that issue. Would never ever devalue that, especially considering I’m black.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:36am #822115
IndianaBasketballParticipantYou meant the Bucks, not the Lakers. And Kareem Abdul-Jabar was averaging 32-16 rebounds on that squad.
And dude… Get out of here bringing up African American rights, etc. You know good and damn well nothing I posted had anything to do with that. Robertson is from Indianapolis, IN and I’m WELL AWARE of that issue. Would never ever devalue that, especially considering I’m black.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:06am #822093
Toronto16ParticipantYikes, as much as it hurts to say, canesboy6 has a point. But I’m from the school of thought that you can’t blame a guy for the era he played in.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:06am #821994
Toronto16ParticipantYikes, as much as it hurts to say, canesboy6 has a point. But I’m from the school of thought that you can’t blame a guy for the era he played in.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:10am #822099
capecodderParticipantNeither Robertson nor Russell is overrated….Robertson’s lack of rings was due a lot to the dominance of Russell’s Celtics as were a lot of great players of that era
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:10am #822000
capecodderParticipantNeither Robertson nor Russell is overrated….Robertson’s lack of rings was due a lot to the dominance of Russell’s Celtics as were a lot of great players of that era
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:08am #822095
druneave3Participant1. Karl Malone. Many people have him pegged as the best PF of all-time which is just not the case. He played in a system designed by a great coach that was tailored to his strengths. And defense? Great player, but not the best PF ever. I would take Duncan, KG, Barkely, and McHale ahead of him.
2. Bill Laimbeer. If he wasn’t on the loaded Detroit team that won two Championships people wouldn’t talk about him as much. Again, great player, but overrated. Big jerk too so he’s higher on my list.
3. Kobe Bryant. Ouch. Extremely hard worker, 5 titles, solid defender (early in career) and fierce competitor but, yes, a chucker. Efficiency is not his game. I still rank him the 2nd best shooting guard ever and a Top 15 player. However, because of that inefficiency and team records when not surrounded by talent and top big men, he is overrated.
4. John Stockton. Also on my list for the same reason as Malone. Would he have put those numbers up in the same system? Give me Kidd, Payton, Rose, Paul, Westbrook, thomas, magic, nash, and others in a matchup with Stockton any day. Stats lie.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:08am #821996
druneave3Participant1. Karl Malone. Many people have him pegged as the best PF of all-time which is just not the case. He played in a system designed by a great coach that was tailored to his strengths. And defense? Great player, but not the best PF ever. I would take Duncan, KG, Barkely, and McHale ahead of him.
2. Bill Laimbeer. If he wasn’t on the loaded Detroit team that won two Championships people wouldn’t talk about him as much. Again, great player, but overrated. Big jerk too so he’s higher on my list.
3. Kobe Bryant. Ouch. Extremely hard worker, 5 titles, solid defender (early in career) and fierce competitor but, yes, a chucker. Efficiency is not his game. I still rank him the 2nd best shooting guard ever and a Top 15 player. However, because of that inefficiency and team records when not surrounded by talent and top big men, he is overrated.
4. John Stockton. Also on my list for the same reason as Malone. Would he have put those numbers up in the same system? Give me Kidd, Payton, Rose, Paul, Westbrook, thomas, magic, nash, and others in a matchup with Stockton any day. Stats lie.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:12am #822105
dcaseParticipantThe Big O being overrated has to be the worst comment posted on this site. Are you serious? The only reason he didn’t advance further in the playoffs while playing for Cincinnati is his surrounding cast and the fact he had to constantly go up against the Celtics. Look at his stats for his first 9 or 10 years in the league. They are better than LeBrons. ~10 rebounds a game in many seasons for a point guard is unheard of. Lets also not forget he is a 3-time college player of the year and made 2 Final Fours. It can be argued that he is the greatest player to ever play.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:12am #822006
dcaseParticipantThe Big O being overrated has to be the worst comment posted on this site. Are you serious? The only reason he didn’t advance further in the playoffs while playing for Cincinnati is his surrounding cast and the fact he had to constantly go up against the Celtics. Look at his stats for his first 9 or 10 years in the league. They are better than LeBrons. ~10 rebounds a game in many seasons for a point guard is unheard of. Lets also not forget he is a 3-time college player of the year and made 2 Final Fours. It can be argued that he is the greatest player to ever play.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:38am #822018
Bird_YearsParticipantLook at average shots per game from back then, far easier to rack up assists, rebounds and points when each team is taking 10% to 20% more shots per game
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:48am #822020
dcaseParticipantAlthough there were more possessions per game back then, being credited for an assist was more difficult. It wasn’t like it is nowadays where you get an assist by passing it to a guy that does a shot fake, 3 jab steps, drives to the basket (often taking more than two steps) and scores. Additionally, players back then got their points strictly off 2 pt fgs and fts….as there were no threes. Just imagine how many more points Jerry West would have scored if there were 3pt fgs.
You also have to rememeber that the players back in the 50s, 60s and 70s were performing at an extremely high level despite horrible travel/lodging condiitons and poor scheduling (i.e. playing three straight days). Players in todays NBA complain about having to to back-to-back games.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:48am #822119
dcaseParticipantAlthough there were more possessions per game back then, being credited for an assist was more difficult. It wasn’t like it is nowadays where you get an assist by passing it to a guy that does a shot fake, 3 jab steps, drives to the basket (often taking more than two steps) and scores. Additionally, players back then got their points strictly off 2 pt fgs and fts….as there were no threes. Just imagine how many more points Jerry West would have scored if there were 3pt fgs.
You also have to rememeber that the players back in the 50s, 60s and 70s were performing at an extremely high level despite horrible travel/lodging condiitons and poor scheduling (i.e. playing three straight days). Players in todays NBA complain about having to to back-to-back games.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:38am #822117
Bird_YearsParticipantLook at average shots per game from back then, far easier to rack up assists, rebounds and points when each team is taking 10% to 20% more shots per game
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:14pm #825235
bouncem24949Participantso then all time greatest players alive where do you put the BIG O
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:14pm #825340
bouncem24949Participantso then all time greatest players alive where do you put the BIG O
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:14am #822107
For_Never_EverParticipantDavid Robinson, I thought was pretty overrated.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:14am #822008
For_Never_EverParticipantDavid Robinson, I thought was pretty overrated.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:55am #822024
BenchWarmerParticipantRobinson was professional by every meaning of the word, with had an unparralled work ethic. To me he was hardest working and humble bigman to ever play, not to memtion he had VERY few holes in his game. Oh and you managed to choose a player that had 70+ points in a game and logged a quadrouple double in the Modern era, so congrats.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:55am #822123
BenchWarmerParticipantRobinson was professional by every meaning of the word, with had an unparralled work ethic. To me he was hardest working and humble bigman to ever play, not to memtion he had VERY few holes in his game. Oh and you managed to choose a player that had 70+ points in a game and logged a quadrouple double in the Modern era, so congrats.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:24am #822111
SiggyParticipantPistol Pete Maravich
He was really a glorified, style-over-substance chucker and crappy defender who never won anything, only making it out of the 1st round of the playoffs one time as a token player.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:24am #822012
SiggyParticipantPistol Pete Maravich
He was really a glorified, style-over-substance chucker and crappy defender who never won anything, only making it out of the 1st round of the playoffs one time as a token player.0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:57am #822026
BenchWarmerParticipantGotta admit was cool as hell tho. 😉
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:57am #822125
BenchWarmerParticipantGotta admit was cool as hell tho. 😉
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:27pm #825350
bouncem24949Participanti just love the showman and everything goin on with him. But yes hes terribly over rated if your talking about real basketball, volume scorer, turnover machine, bad defender, couldnt even lead his teams to playoff appearances. Kind of a selfish type of player who would get those selfish type of Maurbury assists. Had tremendous skills but could never put anything together mentally unless, if his dad didnt coach him in college. You really have to think his numbers would have gone down a significant amount.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:27pm #825245
bouncem24949Participanti just love the showman and everything goin on with him. But yes hes terribly over rated if your talking about real basketball, volume scorer, turnover machine, bad defender, couldnt even lead his teams to playoff appearances. Kind of a selfish type of player who would get those selfish type of Maurbury assists. Had tremendous skills but could never put anything together mentally unless, if his dad didnt coach him in college. You really have to think his numbers would have gone down a significant amount.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 2:34pm #825380
SiggyParticipantMy understanding is that his dad was responsible for reinforcing a lot of his bad habits. He encouraged and coached his son to put up near 40 shots a game. Maybe he would’ve been a better team player and would’ve enjoyed more team success if his father didn’t coach him
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 2:34pm #825275
SiggyParticipantMy understanding is that his dad was responsible for reinforcing a lot of his bad habits. He encouraged and coached his son to put up near 40 shots a game. Maybe he would’ve been a better team player and would’ve enjoyed more team success if his father didn’t coach him
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:28am #822113
mcbaileyParticipantThe problem with this topic is that it’s so subjective and in some cases relative. Someone could say that Michael Jordan is overrated and technically be right because he’s likened to some basketball cyborg god from the future that is fifteen times as good as everyone who has ever played or will ever play the game. I think most people would agree that Michael Jordan is the GOAT, but one stray comment can make someone overrated in even the slightest sense.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:28am #822014
mcbaileyParticipantThe problem with this topic is that it’s so subjective and in some cases relative. Someone could say that Michael Jordan is overrated and technically be right because he’s likened to some basketball cyborg god from the future that is fifteen times as good as everyone who has ever played or will ever play the game. I think most people would agree that Michael Jordan is the GOAT, but one stray comment can make someone overrated in even the slightest sense.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:55am #822028
Meditated StatesParticipantMiller is a hall a famer. Look at the rest of his career stats. Look at all the literally 0 he did besides shoot. Tim Hardaway was better at basketball than him IMO. Oh yeah Mitch Richmond too.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 9:55am #822127
Meditated StatesParticipantMiller is a hall a famer. Look at the rest of his career stats. Look at all the literally 0 he did besides shoot. Tim Hardaway was better at basketball than him IMO. Oh yeah Mitch Richmond too.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:28am #822036
fcb206ParticipantKareem. Never the best player on a title team. Despite gaudy numbers, he was second fiddle to Jerry West and then Magic as a leader. and his crazy career numbers have a lot to do with playing 20+ years. And he was 7’2″ in an era where other than Wilt and Walton, teams still had 6’7″ centers.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:29am #822046
SiggyParticipantKareem didn’t play with Jerry West.
Nice try though.0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:45am #822054
fcb206Participantyeah I forgot west and wilt played together not west and kareem. Bring negs.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:29pm #825352
bouncem24949Participanthow do you forget that, you dont know your basketball history. Kids these days
do you think shaq played with james worthy and magic0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:29pm #825247
bouncem24949Participanthow do you forget that, you dont know your basketball history. Kids these days
do you think shaq played with james worthy and magic0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:33pm #825358
bouncem24949Participanthow do you forget that, you dont know your basketball history. Kids these days
do you think shaq played with james worthy and magic0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:33pm #825253
bouncem24949Participanthow do you forget that, you dont know your basketball history. Kids these days
do you think shaq played with james worthy and magic0
- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:45am #822153
fcb206Participantyeah I forgot west and wilt played together not west and kareem. Bring negs.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:29am #822144
SiggyParticipantKareem didn’t play with Jerry West.
Nice try though.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:53am #822058
IndianaBasketballParticipantKareem was better than Oscar Robertson on the 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks title team.
He averaged 32 (led league in scoring), 16 and 3.3 during the regular season. He also led the NBA in win shares that season at 22.3.
During the playoffs, he put up 27, 17 and 2.5 and outplayed Wilt Chamberlain in the 2nd round.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:31am #822090
aztwulfParticipantOscar was at the end of his career at that point in time. Not to take anything away from Kareem, who was terrific, but Oscar in the early to mid 60’s was one of the three best players in the NBA year in and year out.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:31am #822189
aztwulfParticipantOscar was at the end of his career at that point in time. Not to take anything away from Kareem, who was terrific, but Oscar in the early to mid 60’s was one of the three best players in the NBA year in and year out.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:53am #822157
IndianaBasketballParticipantKareem was better than Oscar Robertson on the 1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks title team.
He averaged 32 (led league in scoring), 16 and 3.3 during the regular season. He also led the NBA in win shares that season at 22.3.
During the playoffs, he put up 27, 17 and 2.5 and outplayed Wilt Chamberlain in the 2nd round.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/26/2013 - 3:30pm #826182
antoniom229ParticipantAre you stupid? I guess you are because Kareem is the all time scoring leader. He never played with Jerry West. Jerry had retired before Kareem went to LA. Kareem was a scoring juggernaut until the 80s. He still was productive and that is why he is the all time scoring leader. There were alot of tall centers playing in the 70s and 80s. You are dumb!
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/26/2013 - 3:30pm #826285
antoniom229ParticipantAre you stupid? I guess you are because Kareem is the all time scoring leader. He never played with Jerry West. Jerry had retired before Kareem went to LA. Kareem was a scoring juggernaut until the 80s. He still was productive and that is why he is the all time scoring leader. There were alot of tall centers playing in the 70s and 80s. You are dumb!
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 10:28am #822134
fcb206ParticipantKareem. Never the best player on a title team. Despite gaudy numbers, he was second fiddle to Jerry West and then Magic as a leader. and his crazy career numbers have a lot to do with playing 20+ years. And he was 7’2″ in an era where other than Wilt and Walton, teams still had 6’7″ centers.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:18am #822072
For_Never_EverParticipantEvery player that is mentioned here have great stats for the most part. This is thread is Controversial and Subjective. So if you have any problems with that, be out.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:18am #822171
For_Never_EverParticipantEvery player that is mentioned here have great stats for the most part. This is thread is Controversial and Subjective. So if you have any problems with that, be out.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:26am #822082
IndianaBasketballParticipant@Dcase
“…has to be the worst comment posted on this site.”
You’ve not read enough on this site then lol.
Welcome to posting though. I’m happy this thread made you make a post, instead of just reading.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:43am #822098
dcaseParticipantYeah, worst comment posted on this site might have been a bit of a stretch. I have read some really bad posts over the past couple of years. Your post calling Oscar overrated just got me riled up. In many ways I think he is underrated. Many people tend to rank him in the bottom half or out of the top ten of all time. That just blows my mind. It is as if basketball didn’t exist before Jordan. In my opinion there are a handfull of guys that can be considered the greatest of all time and Oscar is one of them.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:43am #822197
dcaseParticipantYeah, worst comment posted on this site might have been a bit of a stretch. I have read some really bad posts over the past couple of years. Your post calling Oscar overrated just got me riled up. In many ways I think he is underrated. Many people tend to rank him in the bottom half or out of the top ten of all time. That just blows my mind. It is as if basketball didn’t exist before Jordan. In my opinion there are a handfull of guys that can be considered the greatest of all time and Oscar is one of them.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 2:06pm #822164
ChoppyParticipantHe’s obviously never read a thread started by Euroballer…
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 2:06pm #822263
ChoppyParticipantHe’s obviously never read a thread started by Euroballer…
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:26am #822181
IndianaBasketballParticipant@Dcase
“…has to be the worst comment posted on this site.”
You’ve not read enough on this site then lol.
Welcome to posting though. I’m happy this thread made you make a post, instead of just reading.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:56am #822110
ShyhillParticipantOriginal Poster should’ve increased the scope of his question as there are many aspects to greatness.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 11:56am #822209
ShyhillParticipantOriginal Poster should’ve increased the scope of his question as there are many aspects to greatness.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 4:08pm #822340
Memphis MadnessParticipantBig O is top 15 in my book. Not top 5 though. Walt Bellamy averaged 30 and 20 in Oscar’s Triple Double season along with Wilt getting 50 a night. Might have been a “juiced season”.
You might put Oscar behind guys like Kobe, Shaq, and Larry Bird.
The other guy, Kareem had a strange career. He battled an older Wilt early on then guys like Ewing and Hakeem late
in Kareem’s career but for the rest of the years the centers weren’t that great. Bill Walton was good but hurt and Moses Malone
was 6’10. He’s hard to place. Is he up there with Wilt or down a bit lower with Tim Duncan? You could make a case for him as second best
ever, or somewhere closer to six or seven.For me, the hardest guys to rate are the guys before Russell. Guys like George Mikan, Bob Pettit, , and even Bob Cousy. All probably top 30 or so but they are harder to peg. Like who was better, Cousy or Stockton? Cousy had the assists AND the rings but he played in an earlier era.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 4:08pm #822242
Memphis MadnessParticipantBig O is top 15 in my book. Not top 5 though. Walt Bellamy averaged 30 and 20 in Oscar’s Triple Double season along with Wilt getting 50 a night. Might have been a “juiced season”.
You might put Oscar behind guys like Kobe, Shaq, and Larry Bird.
The other guy, Kareem had a strange career. He battled an older Wilt early on then guys like Ewing and Hakeem late
in Kareem’s career but for the rest of the years the centers weren’t that great. Bill Walton was good but hurt and Moses Malone
was 6’10. He’s hard to place. Is he up there with Wilt or down a bit lower with Tim Duncan? You could make a case for him as second best
ever, or somewhere closer to six or seven.For me, the hardest guys to rate are the guys before Russell. Guys like George Mikan, Bob Pettit, , and even Bob Cousy. All probably top 30 or so but they are harder to peg. Like who was better, Cousy or Stockton? Cousy had the assists AND the rings but he played in an earlier era.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 4:45pm #822363
kazamParticipantI think most of the guys in the HOF are fairly justified and hyped appropriately. To me it’s the guys that never made it that get perhaps an unfair hype; the guys like Len Bias, Ben Wilson, Pee Wee and Earl ‘The Goat” Manigault. I don’t know about everyone else but I find it hard to have conversations about the guys that never could quite get there for whatever reasons.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 4:45pm #822266
kazamParticipantI think most of the guys in the HOF are fairly justified and hyped appropriately. To me it’s the guys that never made it that get perhaps an unfair hype; the guys like Len Bias, Ben Wilson, Pee Wee and Earl ‘The Goat” Manigault. I don’t know about everyone else but I find it hard to have conversations about the guys that never could quite get there for whatever reasons.
0- Posted on: Fri, 07/26/2013 - 3:33pm #826186
antoniom229ParticipantEvery player that is in the hall of fame were great players. Why should alot of people talk about guys that didn’t make it most of the time? That is dumb and you know it!
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/26/2013 - 3:33pm #826289
antoniom229ParticipantEvery player that is in the hall of fame were great players. Why should alot of people talk about guys that didn’t make it most of the time? That is dumb and you know it!
0
- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 4:46pm #822356
Ahkasi ClayParticipantMoses malone I only saw him when he was old slow and fat. Not when he was winning titles in Utah.
Kobe soon the alltime great for missed shots.
Royce white at least the voices in his head think he is the alltome greatest.
Adrian dantley didnt even want to say the word defense.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 4:46pm #822258
Ahkasi ClayParticipantMoses malone I only saw him when he was old slow and fat. Not when he was winning titles in Utah.
Kobe soon the alltime great for missed shots.
Royce white at least the voices in his head think he is the alltome greatest.
Adrian dantley didnt even want to say the word defense.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 5:00pm #822365
HaleParticipantHow about Reggie Miller? He really didn’t bring that much to the table outside of scoring and I wouldn’t say he was an elite scorer considering he averaged over 22 ppg twice in 18 years. He was 6’7 and averaged 3 rpg for his career and the same amount of assists. Pretty one dimensional imo.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 5:00pm #822268
HaleParticipantHow about Reggie Miller? He really didn’t bring that much to the table outside of scoring and I wouldn’t say he was an elite scorer considering he averaged over 22 ppg twice in 18 years. He was 6’7 and averaged 3 rpg for his career and the same amount of assists. Pretty one dimensional imo.
0- Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 4:35am #822598
rwd5035ParticipantHe’s one of the greatest shooters ever, haven’t really seen anyone say anything different about him like he was an all time great scorer.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 4:35am #822501
rwd5035ParticipantHe’s one of the greatest shooters ever, haven’t really seen anyone say anything different about him like he was an all time great scorer.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:40pm #825360
bouncem24949Participantcouldnt rebound, not a great passer, couldnt defend. total one dimensional, I think hes way too high on most of these top 100 nba lists I see. Took a team to the finals only to play poorly and get mopped by LA
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 1:40pm #825255
bouncem24949Participantcouldnt rebound, not a great passer, couldnt defend. total one dimensional, I think hes way too high on most of these top 100 nba lists I see. Took a team to the finals only to play poorly and get mopped by LA
0
- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 5:11pm #822367
Ahkasi ClayParticipantMalone did play for Utah straight out of high school but was not on the team the year they won the championship.
Sometimes I remember stuff that happened befor I was born wrong.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 5:11pm #822270
Ahkasi ClayParticipantMalone did play for Utah straight out of high school but was not on the team the year they won the championship.
Sometimes I remember stuff that happened befor I was born wrong.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 5:47pm #822293
BlueRivers25ParticipantPatrick Ewing – Not even a top 5 all time center.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:53pm #822408
GrandmamaParticipantI think everyone will agree Ewing isn’t a top 5 center. The consensus top 5 in no order are; Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, and Hakeem.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 8:53pm #822504
GrandmamaParticipantI think everyone will agree Ewing isn’t a top 5 center. The consensus top 5 in no order are; Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, and Hakeem.
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- Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 5:47pm #822389
BlueRivers25ParticipantPatrick Ewing – Not even a top 5 all time center.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 7:15pm #822345
drice4life1753ParticipantI can not blame the player for the era he played in. But you can blame the era for the position the player is placed in.
If you are telling me the league is not AMAZINGLY more athletically superior today, you’re kidding yourself. It is hard for me to not think about the athletic superiority today in the NBA while talking about the best players in any category, whether it be greatest of all-time or best 6th men of all time. Clearly stats, and awards are more “tangible,” but why would those accolades not be taken into proper context? Hey if you are going to argue that the 90’s NBA was on average better teams and players so be it. But in order to justify a players greatness you have to take into consideration the talent around him and the GAME TO GAME talent he played against.0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/17/2013 - 7:15pm #822442
drice4life1753ParticipantI can not blame the player for the era he played in. But you can blame the era for the position the player is placed in.
If you are telling me the league is not AMAZINGLY more athletically superior today, you’re kidding yourself. It is hard for me to not think about the athletic superiority today in the NBA while talking about the best players in any category, whether it be greatest of all-time or best 6th men of all time. Clearly stats, and awards are more “tangible,” but why would those accolades not be taken into proper context? Hey if you are going to argue that the 90’s NBA was on average better teams and players so be it. But in order to justify a players greatness you have to take into consideration the talent around him and the GAME TO GAME talent he played against.0 - Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 2:31am #822568
RUDEBOY_ParticipantMaybe you are saying he’s overrated becuz he has did everything so effortlessly,wasnt flashy,he didnt win a ring until he joined Kareem and the Bucks and watching him on film, he looks slow….
About 30 years ago,alot of experts said he was the best player of all time..I guess as time goes by,and we compare what he did to what players like Jordan,Magic,Bird,Shaq,Kobe,Duncan,Olajuwon and Lebron has done Robertson applishments become less appreciated…
But no way is he overrated,dude was a beast…Alot of players today use some moves he invented like the fade-away & head fake…Robertson is the only guard in nba history to average 10 rbs during a season..
1.11 time all nba performer
2.MVP
3.averaged a triple double for the first 5 yrs of his career
4.led the nba in assists 7 times
5.five time all star game MvpAhead of his time ,Yes..Overrated NO
0 - Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 2:31am #822471
RUDEBOY_ParticipantMaybe you are saying he’s overrated becuz he has did everything so effortlessly,wasnt flashy,he didnt win a ring until he joined Kareem and the Bucks and watching him on film, he looks slow….
About 30 years ago,alot of experts said he was the best player of all time..I guess as time goes by,and we compare what he did to what players like Jordan,Magic,Bird,Shaq,Kobe,Duncan,Olajuwon and Lebron has done Robertson applishments become less appreciated…
But no way is he overrated,dude was a beast…Alot of players today use some moves he invented like the fade-away & head fake…Robertson is the only guard in nba history to average 10 rbs during a season..
1.11 time all nba performer
2.MVP
3.averaged a triple double for the first 5 yrs of his career
4.led the nba in assists 7 times
5.five time all star game MvpAhead of his time ,Yes..Overrated NO
0 - Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 4:33am #822596
rwd5035ParticipantIt’s so hard to even analyze the stats from the Celtics dominated era where Wilt, Russell, Robertson, etc. played. For one, teams would take terrible shots, would be inefficient and they played fast. So all rebounding numbers from this time are inflated. Also, there were very few quality bigs to match someone like Wilt or Russell, so they’d rack up rebounding stats with relative ease. That era of basketball almost should stand alone, can’t compare it to the eras that follow it.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 4:33am #822499
rwd5035ParticipantIt’s so hard to even analyze the stats from the Celtics dominated era where Wilt, Russell, Robertson, etc. played. For one, teams would take terrible shots, would be inefficient and they played fast. So all rebounding numbers from this time are inflated. Also, there were very few quality bigs to match someone like Wilt or Russell, so they’d rack up rebounding stats with relative ease. That era of basketball almost should stand alone, can’t compare it to the eras that follow it.
0 - Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 6:39am #822561
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantAbsolutely rwd.
I don’t think the Big O is overrated. But I do think his triple double season is overrated by fans of the modern era.
We have to keep in mind in that era it was not uncommon for the best players like Robertson to average 45+ minutes per game, while the best players in todays game play about 38-40. So that’ll give a slight boost to stats.
Then keep in mind that the average team in 1962 scored 118.8 PPG and grabbed a whopping 71.4 RPG while the average team this past season averaged 98.1 PPG and 42.1 RPG.
Don’t get me wrong Robertson’s numbers in his triple double season are very impressive but not any more impressive than Magic’s years from 1982-84 (17.6 PPG, 8.6 RPG, and 10.9 APG combined over all three years), MJ’s 1989 season (32.5 PPG, 8 RPG and 8 APG), Larry Bird’s 1990 season (24.3 PPG, 9.5 RPG and 7.5 APG) and Lebron’s 2010 (29.7 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 8.6 APG) and 2013 (26.8, 8 RPG, 7.3 APG) seasons. They also put up fantastic all-around numbers albeit in eras with a much slower pace.
0- Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 3:29pm #825418
AmiableBaller34ParticipantI understand your logic, but if it was that easy than wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Times change and so does the game, so why should someone be reprimanded for it. LeBron plays in an era were shooting is at a premium, and until recently had no great big men. Should we denounce LeBrons assist numbers because of the narrow focus on shooting, and his rebounds because of lack of big men? Of course not, those are all just aspects that define the style of play we see today, and today, like in Oscar’s time, someone who is a physical freak is going to dominate. It’s really simple as that.
I also don’t understand why some people question individual Legends. I know certain players to be great because they played with other great players. Oscar played with Kareem, who played with Magic, who played against Bird, who both played against the greatest talent of all time in MJ. All of those guys held their own out there against each other, so why does it matter when someone played if they still dominated?
I see a lot of this talk with Larry Bird and it makes me sick. Ignorant people say Bird would be the equivalent to a lesser Dirk, or Bargs type of player today, and to me that is just outlandish. I know a player like Bird is great because I’ve watched full games of him going against guys like Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Hakeem, and MJ, and always produce great numbers. Why would that change today?
I think this “modern era” ideology needs to go, or people need to at least acknowledge the same advantages modern era Stars have. The three point line wasn’t put into place until 1984, the blocked shot until 1974, and the steal the same year. Players back then didn’t have the advantage of mastering one single skill like guys today. Remember, it’s these legends who the great players of today learned from.
0 - Posted on: Wed, 07/24/2013 - 3:29pm #825313
AmiableBaller34ParticipantI understand your logic, but if it was that easy than wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Times change and so does the game, so why should someone be reprimanded for it. LeBron plays in an era were shooting is at a premium, and until recently had no great big men. Should we denounce LeBrons assist numbers because of the narrow focus on shooting, and his rebounds because of lack of big men? Of course not, those are all just aspects that define the style of play we see today, and today, like in Oscar’s time, someone who is a physical freak is going to dominate. It’s really simple as that.
I also don’t understand why some people question individual Legends. I know certain players to be great because they played with other great players. Oscar played with Kareem, who played with Magic, who played against Bird, who both played against the greatest talent of all time in MJ. All of those guys held their own out there against each other, so why does it matter when someone played if they still dominated?
I see a lot of this talk with Larry Bird and it makes me sick. Ignorant people say Bird would be the equivalent to a lesser Dirk, or Bargs type of player today, and to me that is just outlandish. I know a player like Bird is great because I’ve watched full games of him going against guys like Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Hakeem, and MJ, and always produce great numbers. Why would that change today?
I think this “modern era” ideology needs to go, or people need to at least acknowledge the same advantages modern era Stars have. The three point line wasn’t put into place until 1984, the blocked shot until 1974, and the steal the same year. Players back then didn’t have the advantage of mastering one single skill like guys today. Remember, it’s these legends who the great players of today learned from.
0- Posted on: Fri, 07/26/2013 - 4:45pm #826200
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantI understand your logic, but if it was that easy than wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Times change and so does the game, so why should someone be reprimanded for it.
————————————————————————————————————I didn’t say it was easy. I said that a handful of guys have put up numbers on the same level as that over the last 50+ years, if you think that makes it “easy” then that misconception is on you.
I’m not “reprimanding” Oscar for playing in a different era, I’m just taking that era into account when trying to put his numbers in perspective. “Times change and so does the game” is exactly my point, the problem is that some modern fans put the players like Wilt, Big O etc on a pedestal primarily because of how their stats look in comparison to the superstars of today without looking at those numbers in context.
It works both ways, I’m not going to be under the impression that Stephon Marbury was a better passer than Bob Cousy because his assist numbers were slightly higher. It’s not a “modern era” idealogy that I’m going with here, it’s the realization that while “numbers don’t lie” they can be misleading.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/26/2013 - 4:45pm #826304
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantI understand your logic, but if it was that easy than wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Times change and so does the game, so why should someone be reprimanded for it.
————————————————————————————————————I didn’t say it was easy. I said that a handful of guys have put up numbers on the same level as that over the last 50+ years, if you think that makes it “easy” then that misconception is on you.
I’m not “reprimanding” Oscar for playing in a different era, I’m just taking that era into account when trying to put his numbers in perspective. “Times change and so does the game” is exactly my point, the problem is that some modern fans put the players like Wilt, Big O etc on a pedestal primarily because of how their stats look in comparison to the superstars of today without looking at those numbers in context.
It works both ways, I’m not going to be under the impression that Stephon Marbury was a better passer than Bob Cousy because his assist numbers were slightly higher. It’s not a “modern era” idealogy that I’m going with here, it’s the realization that while “numbers don’t lie” they can be misleading.
0
- Posted on: Thu, 07/18/2013 - 6:39am #822659
ItsVictorOladipoParticipantAbsolutely rwd.
I don’t think the Big O is overrated. But I do think his triple double season is overrated by fans of the modern era.
We have to keep in mind in that era it was not uncommon for the best players like Robertson to average 45+ minutes per game, while the best players in todays game play about 38-40. So that’ll give a slight boost to stats.
Then keep in mind that the average team in 1962 scored 118.8 PPG and grabbed a whopping 71.4 RPG while the average team this past season averaged 98.1 PPG and 42.1 RPG.
Don’t get me wrong Robertson’s numbers in his triple double season are very impressive but not any more impressive than Magic’s years from 1982-84 (17.6 PPG, 8.6 RPG, and 10.9 APG combined over all three years), MJ’s 1989 season (32.5 PPG, 8 RPG and 8 APG), Larry Bird’s 1990 season (24.3 PPG, 9.5 RPG and 7.5 APG) and Lebron’s 2010 (29.7 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 8.6 APG) and 2013 (26.8, 8 RPG, 7.3 APG) seasons. They also put up fantastic all-around numbers albeit in eras with a much slower pace.
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/19/2013 - 5:39am #823350
RUDEBOY_Participantand i wouldnt consider reggie miller or bill laimbeer all time greats…..
0 - Posted on: Fri, 07/19/2013 - 5:39am #823250
RUDEBOY_Participantand i wouldnt consider reggie miller or bill laimbeer all time greats…..
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