[I May Be WrongParticipant]

I’m a big fan of this team’s talent. The forum has mentioned this on numerous occasions. At 6-8, they’re about where I thought they would be (borderline / last place playoff team in the east). This topic is to talk about multiple factors about this team and how they’re going to approach it for the future.

1) As it stands now, they don’t have a true star. Vucci Mane is very good big man. He’s the closest they have to an all-star at this point. But another person that I was hoping to take his game to another level is Victor Oladipo. I’m still a huge fan of him but I’ve been disappointed with his numbers this year. His defense is always solid but I would have liked to see his scoring closer to 20 ppg rather than the 12.8 ppg it is right now. I’m aware he is coming back from an injury that caused him to miss some time but at this point, do you think V.O. is someone the Magic would keep as a part of their long term plans?

2) Evan Fournier makes me really wonder if they want to keep V.O. because Evan "Do Not Google" Fournier has been a pleasant surprise. But there were rumors that he rejected a $32M, 4 year deal from the Magic. He’s banking on himself right now and to be honest, he probably deserves that Wes Matthews money. I’m not sure if he is a RFA off the top of my head but do you see the Magic keeping Evan if he is offered a $15M per year contract? He’s an excellent shooter and solid defender and looks like he can continue to improve. Plus, he may be a better fit for Vucci Mane than Oladipo.

3) Opinions on Skiles coaching job for this team so far?  I know he’s one of those coaches that has a mixed bag of opinions from fans but after the loss to the Cavs, he said "its time to change the lineup".. Wonder if that means benching Oladipo or someone else. 

 

[high floorParticipant]

I’m a big Magic fan, have been for years. But i’m torn both now and for my team’s future prospects. Mostly because of Scott Skiles. I actually like Skiles in some ways as a HC, but his recent actions give me cause for concern moving forward.

What Scott Skiles said to the media after yesterday’s loss to the Cavs was very revealing. Good, to great, up and coming teams the past 5-7 years (i.e Golden State, OKC, and to a lesser degree the Washington Wiz & perhaps the Jazz this year) NEVER benched their young core players during their key developmental years. Now you have Scott Skiles totally messing with Payton, Oladipo, and Vucevic’s confidence. A head coach that is leading a young team needs to let them play through mistakes, and Skiles just seems to have them on too short of a leash.

Per yesterday’s postgame interview, Skiles implied that both Dwyane Dedmon and Shabbazz Napier could enter the starting lineup to replace Payton & Vuc. Everyone in their right mind knows this team will not reach it’s full potential with those 2 replacements in the starting lineup if he sticks with them moving forward. 

Now I’m not bashing those 2 players, as they’ve proved in the early going that they deserve to be in the rotation. But starting over their 2 recent lottery picks, because of a couple of poor games?? WTH!

Skiles and his assistant coaches need to work with Payton and Oladipo on their finishing ability. Guys with their body control and athleticism should be in the top 25% for their position in shooting percentage at the rim. I believe if Skiles continues to get them minutes, and they improve that specific facet of their games (while getting more to the FT line!!) they’ll be in good shape. Until then, we’ll see 

 

  

  

[high floorParticipant]

I’m a big Magic fan, have been for years. But i’m torn both now and for my team’s future prospects. Mostly because of Scott Skiles. I actually like Skiles in some ways as a HC, but his recent actions give me cause for concern moving forward.

What Scott Skiles said to the media after yesterday’s loss to the Cavs was very revealing. Good, to great, up and coming teams the past 5-7 years (i.e Golden State, OKC, and to a lesser degree the Washington Wiz & perhaps the Jazz this year) NEVER benched their young core players during their key developmental years. Now you have Scott Skiles totally messing with Payton, Oladipo, and Vucevic’s confidence. A head coach that is leading a young team needs to let them play through mistakes, and Skiles just seems to have them on too short of a leash.

Per yesterday’s postgame interview, Skiles implied that both Dwyane Dedmon and Shabbazz Napier could enter the starting lineup to replace Payton & Vuc. Everyone in their right mind knows this team will not reach it’s full potential with those 2 replacements in the starting lineup if he sticks with them moving forward. 

Now I’m not bashing those 2 players, as they’ve proved in the early going that they deserve to be in the rotation. But starting over their 2 recent lottery picks, because of a couple of poor games?? WTH!

Skiles and his assistant coaches need to work with Payton and Oladipo on their finishing ability. Guys with their body control and athleticism should be in the top 25% for their position in shooting percentage at the rim. I believe if Skiles continues to get them minutes, and they improve that specific facet of their games (while getting more to the FT line!!) they’ll be in good shape. Until then, we’ll see 

 

  

  

[FrankStallone]

Why is spacing/balance such a hard concept for most here to understand?

It’s like the people thinking that Simmons/Noel/Okafor would be an awesome front court. It would be, until the games start!

Payton and Vucivic are both outdated style of players. Vucivic can’t stretch the floor or move his feet on defense, so he’s in that Big Al/Greg Monroe empty stats/always losing mold of throw back player. At best they can be an Okafor or Brook Lopez, but even then, they’re not really game changers because of their defense and inability to stretch the floor. 

Payton is in that Rondo/MCWilliams mold of can’t shoot/4 on 5 offense style point guard that needs just the right mix of hall of famers around him to not be an utter liability.

Both of these styles of players had more success in the past before zone defense was allowed. The Elfrid Payton’s were required to be defended by league rules, even though they didn’t merit being defended. And the Okafors never had to worry about help defense.

It’s not like Payton is suddenly going to start shooting well if Skiles coddles him and plays him more than he merits, just like Vucivic isn’t going to become mobile just by Skiles giving him more minutes.

Ben Simmons is another can’t shoot guy who is going to need just the right mix of guys around him to be great in the NBA. Lucky for him, it’s looking like a fairly weak draft class at the top, so people will pretend he’s some amazing prospect who’s lack of a jump shot is an asset, not a liability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FrankStallone]

Why is spacing/balance such a hard concept for most here to understand?

It’s like the people thinking that Simmons/Noel/Okafor would be an awesome front court. It would be, until the games start!

Payton and Vucivic are both outdated style of players. Vucivic can’t stretch the floor or move his feet on defense, so he’s in that Big Al/Greg Monroe empty stats/always losing mold of throw back player. At best they can be an Okafor or Brook Lopez, but even then, they’re not really game changers because of their defense and inability to stretch the floor. 

Payton is in that Rondo/MCWilliams mold of can’t shoot/4 on 5 offense style point guard that needs just the right mix of hall of famers around him to not be an utter liability.

Both of these styles of players had more success in the past before zone defense was allowed. The Elfrid Payton’s were required to be defended by league rules, even though they didn’t merit being defended. And the Okafors never had to worry about help defense.

It’s not like Payton is suddenly going to start shooting well if Skiles coddles him and plays him more than he merits, just like Vucivic isn’t going to become mobile just by Skiles giving him more minutes.

Ben Simmons is another can’t shoot guy who is going to need just the right mix of guys around him to be great in the NBA. Lucky for him, it’s looking like a fairly weak draft class at the top, so people will pretend he’s some amazing prospect who’s lack of a jump shot is an asset, not a liability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

Who the F pretends a lack of jump shot is an asset?? LOLLLLLLL You’re putting words into our mouths T-Rex. It seems you found a new toy in Ben Simmons to devote your life bashing on. Good for you. At least we’re keeping quiet on the scorching hot 33% shooting Marcus Smart on here.

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

Who the F pretends a lack of jump shot is an asset?? LOLLLLLLL You’re putting words into our mouths T-Rex. It seems you found a new toy in Ben Simmons to devote your life bashing on. Good for you. At least we’re keeping quiet on the scorching hot 33% shooting Marcus Smart on here.

[high floorParticipant]

Just because Rondo and MCW have not learned to shoot does not automatically disqualify Payton’s ability to improve in this area. I’ll throw a few names at you and their rookie year stats:

• Gary Payton: 7% from 3pt range on .2 attemptes per game, 45% from the field overall
• Russell Wesbrook: 27% from 3pt range on 1.6 attempts, 39.8% from the field overall
• John Wall: 29% from 3pt range on 1.5 attempts, 41% from the field overall
• Kyle Lowry: 25% from 3pt range on 1.8 attempts, 43% from the field overall 
• Reggie Jackson: 21% from 3 pt range on 1.5 attempts, 32% from the field overall
• Do i need to go on?

Am I saying that Elfrid Payton is going to be as dominant as Wall or Westbrook… NO!! But let’s give the guy some benefit of the doubt since he did make All-Rookie first team last season. Also, don’t mention Payton’s free throw percentage from his rookie season. Although his attempts are a bit low he’s improved to 75% on this season. 

Oh and btw, Marcus Smart is shooting 33% from the field, 23% from 3pt range, and 66% from the FT line this season. I’m ready for you to gloss over this and point out his advanced metrics and defensive impact too

 

[high floorParticipant]

Just because Rondo and MCW have not learned to shoot does not automatically disqualify Payton’s ability to improve in this area. I’ll throw a few names at you and their rookie year stats:

• Gary Payton: 7% from 3pt range on .2 attemptes per game, 45% from the field overall
• Russell Wesbrook: 27% from 3pt range on 1.6 attempts, 39.8% from the field overall
• John Wall: 29% from 3pt range on 1.5 attempts, 41% from the field overall
• Kyle Lowry: 25% from 3pt range on 1.8 attempts, 43% from the field overall 
• Reggie Jackson: 21% from 3 pt range on 1.5 attempts, 32% from the field overall
• Do i need to go on?

Am I saying that Elfrid Payton is going to be as dominant as Wall or Westbrook… NO!! But let’s give the guy some benefit of the doubt since he did make All-Rookie first team last season. Also, don’t mention Payton’s free throw percentage from his rookie season. Although his attempts are a bit low he’s improved to 75% on this season. 

Oh and btw, Marcus Smart is shooting 33% from the field, 23% from 3pt range, and 66% from the FT line this season. I’m ready for you to gloss over this and point out his advanced metrics and defensive impact too

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

 The big issue is figuring out how this team should play. Vucevic is their best player, meaning that he’s polished and developed beyond the others, but he’s slow old-school game is simply at odds with the rest of the roster. When Vucevic was hurt and they rolled with Dedmon, they looked pretty good. They were sprinting down the court, getting the most out of Payton, Oladipo and Gordon especially. 

At some point this team needs to decide how much of the reins they are willing to give to their young core. In my opinion, they have the stockpile of assets to make a move on a superstar…. will a superstar play in Orlando? Possibly. If the answer is yes, I don’t think it’s out of the question to trade Vucevic to get him. 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

 The big issue is figuring out how this team should play. Vucevic is their best player, meaning that he’s polished and developed beyond the others, but he’s slow old-school game is simply at odds with the rest of the roster. When Vucevic was hurt and they rolled with Dedmon, they looked pretty good. They were sprinting down the court, getting the most out of Payton, Oladipo and Gordon especially. 

At some point this team needs to decide how much of the reins they are willing to give to their young core. In my opinion, they have the stockpile of assets to make a move on a superstar…. will a superstar play in Orlando? Possibly. If the answer is yes, I don’t think it’s out of the question to trade Vucevic to get him. 

 

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