[ropeParticipant]

When I read an article like the one below, my thoughts are things like "cheaters!" or "what do you expect for Roy Williams?" I wonder about the application of common sense. What I wonder is why there is not a perfectly reasonable solution, such as allowing players to major in their sport? Prospective musicians can be in the band and study music, potential lawyers can be on the school debate team, drama students can act in school stage productions – the list goes on?

Why can’t a basketball player major in basketball or a football player in football, etc? It is a legitimate body of knowledge that can lead to a lot of opportunities to be employed – from the NBA to coaching to running a YMCA program or a gym.

It seems hypocritical to say that athletes have to study something outside their interest or passion. If someone wanted to say the career prospects are somewhat limited, so what. Tell me the employment value of a degree in Greek Literature or even the previously mentioned drama.

At least some schools have degrees like Kinesiology – which is basically a degree in the movement of the body. Wondered what the rest of you think about this. For me, ditch the sham and let these young people pursue their legitimate interests at the college level.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11745036/north-carolina-investigation-says-advisers-pushed-sham-classes

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

The whole college system is a sham. It has gotten out of control. UNC dropped the ball on academics of course by offering “paper” classes. They had a bipolar NBA drop out call them out on it. If you think that UNC is the only place in the country that this crap is happening, you must be delusional. The one and dones are killing college basketball. Money is king and we have colleges like Maryland on the east coast relocating to the Big Ten. Nobody cares about an education anymore and I’m sure hundreds of D1 basketball players across the country never go to class. There are some great hard-working youngsters in college basketball who work hard on their games and study and go to class also, but nobody ever hears about them. All we talk about are the Rashad McCants of the world. That’s basically our society for you in today’s world and it has invaded college basketball, something I have been in love with since the early 1990’s. It’s really a damn shame.

[ropeParticipant]

I am not about to suggest that this only happens at UNC.  I had a U of M grad with a "Sports Management" degree work for me some time ago and my observation was he was very close to functionally illiterate.

I’d take this one of two ways – though neither are going to happen.  One would be what I already suggested – create majors around specific sports and let people major in them – scholarship athletes or not.

The other would be to make it the custom and practice that athletes were subject to the same entry requirements as all students at the school.  This might rule out a lot of players from a lot of schools – much like Stanford, Northwestern and other institutions do.  So what if it means your local community college is stocked with more talent than your state university.  There would be a much better chance of academic integrity that way, especially since most junior colleges and community colleges have extensive remedial learning programs. A lot of students come to them with poorly developed academic skills.  If you have a HS "grad" who can’t add and subtract, his best opportunity is to go to a JC and get the basics down.

For what it is worth, I am a college professor, so I have a pretty good perch from which I can view the situation.  I don’t claim to be an expert in this area, just an interested observer.

[llperez]

I would think majors like “sports management” or any physical fitness oriented major could be similar to majoring in a specific sport. Also, regardless of major, you need two years worth of general education classes and those who are cheating the system will still cheat the system instead of taking real classes so Im not sure making sport specific majors would change anything. Guys aren’t struggling because they are majoring in engineering and the majors are too hard, they struggle because they either can’t or do not want to be in class period regardless of major.

[ropeParticipant]

I am not sure if it is the case anymore, but at one time Sports Management was only available at U of M for varsity athletes. My observation was it was far less demanding than any other management degree at the university.

I am aware of the fact that there are sections of 100 level english, math and science classes at MSU that are only open to  basketball and football players.  My daughter was in a 100 level chemistry class and she managed to get hold of the first exam in the athletes only section.  She showed me her first test and the test she found.  The difference between the two could only be described as shocking.

[ropeParticipant]

I am not sure if it is the case anymore, but at one time Sports Management was only available at U of M for varsity athletes. My observation was it was far less demanding than any other management degree at the university.

I am aware of the fact that there are sections of 100 level english, math and science classes at MSU that are only open to  basketball and football players.  My daughter was in a 100 level chemistry class and she managed to get hold of the first exam in the athletes only section.  She showed me her first test and the test she found.  The difference between the two could only be described as shocking.

[llperez]

I would think majors like “sports management” or any physical fitness oriented major could be similar to majoring in a specific sport. Also, regardless of major, you need two years worth of general education classes and those who are cheating the system will still cheat the system instead of taking real classes so Im not sure making sport specific majors would change anything. Guys aren’t struggling because they are majoring in engineering and the majors are too hard, they struggle because they either can’t or do not want to be in class period regardless of major.

[ropeParticipant]

I am not about to suggest that this only happens at UNC.  I had a U of M grad with a "Sports Management" degree work for me some time ago and my observation was he was very close to functionally illiterate.

I’d take this one of two ways – though neither are going to happen.  One would be what I already suggested – create majors around specific sports and let people major in them – scholarship athletes or not.

The other would be to make it the custom and practice that athletes were subject to the same entry requirements as all students at the school.  This might rule out a lot of players from a lot of schools – much like Stanford, Northwestern and other institutions do.  So what if it means your local community college is stocked with more talent than your state university.  There would be a much better chance of academic integrity that way, especially since most junior colleges and community colleges have extensive remedial learning programs. A lot of students come to them with poorly developed academic skills.  If you have a HS "grad" who can’t add and subtract, his best opportunity is to go to a JC and get the basics down.

For what it is worth, I am a college professor, so I have a pretty good perch from which I can view the situation.  I don’t claim to be an expert in this area, just an interested observer.

[TarHeelRavenParticipant]

The whole college system is a sham. It has gotten out of control. UNC dropped the ball on academics of course by offering “paper” classes. They had a bipolar NBA drop out call them out on it. If you think that UNC is the only place in the country that this crap is happening, you must be delusional. The one and dones are killing college basketball. Money is king and we have colleges like Maryland on the east coast relocating to the Big Ten. Nobody cares about an education anymore and I’m sure hundreds of D1 basketball players across the country never go to class. There are some great hard-working youngsters in college basketball who work hard on their games and study and go to class also, but nobody ever hears about them. All we talk about are the Rashad McCants of the world. That’s basically our society for you in today’s world and it has invaded college basketball, something I have been in love with since the early 1990’s. It’s really a damn shame.

[ncballer]

 If you read the actual investigation, Roy Williams is practically clean in all of this (before you neg me read the report that I have linked).  He actually led a charge to quit having all basketball players become AFAM majors.  Also points out that McCants refused to interview for the investigation and based off other players testimonies that his claims were not supported.  

The major hits were the football team and women’s basketball will likely get sanctioned, mens basketball according to the report (link below) are likely not affected.  

What this situation is in a nutshell is that an assistant in the AFAM department felt bad for student athletes.  Told the head that she was going to offer bogus classes to help them.  

Very few people were actually aware that she was not grading papers off of quality but completion.  Academic advisors steered some athletes to those classes because they heard they were easy not because of knowledge of a scheme. 

Crowder (the most guilty in all of this) gave 0’s for papers not turned in, but gave B’s or A’s for papers turned in regardless of quality. 

The football team connected the dots and when she announced her retirement the coaches advised all players to hurry up and turn in their papers at risk for a D or C with another grader.  

The consensus is that Crowder set up bogus classes.  Not many new she did.  Advisors caught wind that the classes were easy and advised ALL THE STUDENT POPULATION to take them.  A lot of kids on academic scholarship that needed to maintain a certain GPA were steered to those classes by advisors.  Over half were non-student athletes.  

advancingrefor.staging.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/UNC-FINAL-REPORT.pdf

Wainstein in the press conference said that this was more of an academic than athletic issue and that the athletic departments did not cover anything up, just that there was extreme oversight.  

Have at it.  

[ropeParticipant]

I agree with you. Please read my post below.

[ncballer]

No worries man!

[ncballer]

No worries man!

[ropeParticipant]

I agree with you. Please read my post below.

[ncballer]

 If you read the actual investigation, Roy Williams is practically clean in all of this (before you neg me read the report that I have linked).  He actually led a charge to quit having all basketball players become AFAM majors.  Also points out that McCants refused to interview for the investigation and based off other players testimonies that his claims were not supported.  

The major hits were the football team and women’s basketball will likely get sanctioned, mens basketball according to the report (link below) are likely not affected.  

What this situation is in a nutshell is that an assistant in the AFAM department felt bad for student athletes.  Told the head that she was going to offer bogus classes to help them.  

Very few people were actually aware that she was not grading papers off of quality but completion.  Academic advisors steered some athletes to those classes because they heard they were easy not because of knowledge of a scheme. 

Crowder (the most guilty in all of this) gave 0’s for papers not turned in, but gave B’s or A’s for papers turned in regardless of quality. 

The football team connected the dots and when she announced her retirement the coaches advised all players to hurry up and turn in their papers at risk for a D or C with another grader.  

The consensus is that Crowder set up bogus classes.  Not many new she did.  Advisors caught wind that the classes were easy and advised ALL THE STUDENT POPULATION to take them.  A lot of kids on academic scholarship that needed to maintain a certain GPA were steered to those classes by advisors.  Over half were non-student athletes.  

advancingrefor.staging.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/UNC-FINAL-REPORT.pdf

Wainstein in the press conference said that this was more of an academic than athletic issue and that the athletic departments did not cover anything up, just that there was extreme oversight.  

Have at it.  

[ropeParticipant]

I realize the problem with my first post – I meant to say my first thoughts "aren’t," not that that they "are." Huge difference and now I understand the responses.  I am an engineering professor and I guess proofreading is not one of my skills.  lol

Sorry if I  offended the UNC fans.  I actually think Williams has a lot of integrity and by no means did I want to single out him or the school.  More power to them that they reacted and eliminated most of the courses and administrators involved.  Again, apologies for the mistake.  I did read the original article and many others like it.  Since we just dealt with a major plagiarism case, it was very timely.

I am going to say that this is a very glitchy site and it makes it very hard to post, edit or manage your comments.  I had to make five or six attempts to get this post up on the board.  Love the content here.  Hate the technology.

[ropeParticipant]

I realize the problem with my first post – I meant to say my first thoughts "aren’t," not that that they "are." Huge difference and now I understand the responses.  I am an engineering professor and I guess proofreading is not one of my skills.  lol

Sorry if I  offended the UNC fans.  I actually think Williams has a lot of integrity and by no means did I want to single out him or the school.  More power to them that they reacted and eliminated most of the courses and administrators involved.  Again, apologies for the mistake.  I did read the original article and many others like it.  Since we just dealt with a major plagiarism case, it was very timely.

I am going to say that this is a very glitchy site and it makes it very hard to post, edit or manage your comments.  I had to make five or six attempts to get this post up on the board.  Love the content here.  Hate the technology.

[tuck243Participant]

 Roy telling Willingham her job was to make sure his players were eligible wasn’t part of this?  The fact that all the whistle blowers in this case no longer cooperated with the investigation doesn’t raise red flags? Or the fact that the only championship team on campus is also the only major team that was operating in a correct manner?  I tend to think something like 18 years worth of cheating isn’t something you can exactly hide.  To blame this on one or 2 people is basically allowing people to fall down on a sword for the greater good.   In this case, protecting all those banners UNC put up in these 18 years.  

This is almost like the NFL and Ray Rice tape…  

[tuck243Participant]

 Roy telling Willingham her job was to make sure his players were eligible wasn’t part of this?  The fact that all the whistle blowers in this case no longer cooperated with the investigation doesn’t raise red flags? Or the fact that the only championship team on campus is also the only major team that was operating in a correct manner?  I tend to think something like 18 years worth of cheating isn’t something you can exactly hide.  To blame this on one or 2 people is basically allowing people to fall down on a sword for the greater good.   In this case, protecting all those banners UNC put up in these 18 years.  

This is almost like the NFL and Ray Rice tape…  

[ncballer]

 Did you even read the report?  This is what bothers me about America.  People don’t even bother to go straight to the source which in this case is the investigative report.

Roy inhereted that championship team from Doherty.

Willingham has been found guilty on the following:

-Unethical gathering of data.  (didn’t go through IRB)
-Fabrication of data.
-Plagirizing her thesis.

While she is still relevent in this case is beyond me considering how much of a liar she is.  

————————-

"Coach Williams was uncomfortable with that clustering in AFAM because it looked like the players were being steered into that major, and after a year or two on the job he asked Holladay to make sure that basketball and ASPSA personnel were not steering players to the AFAM Department." pg. 73

We also tried to re-interview Willingham about her supplemental allegation about Coach Williams, but her attorney in her civil lawsuit against the University did not grant us permission.

As for Willingham’s allegation that Williams said that her job was to keep players eligible, Coach Williams flatly denies it for two reasons. First, to his knowledge, he believes he has never spoken to Mary Willingham. Second, even if he had spoken to her, he would never make that statement, as it is directly contrary to the belief that he constantly preaches that their number one responsibility as coaches and counselors is to make sure their players get a good education." pg. 74

————————–

Read the actual report.  Don’t get your information from media sites that will do anything for clicks.  

 

[ncballer]

 Did you even read the report?  This is what bothers me about America.  People don’t even bother to go straight to the source which in this case is the investigative report.

Roy inhereted that championship team from Doherty.

Willingham has been found guilty on the following:

-Unethical gathering of data.  (didn’t go through IRB)
-Fabrication of data.
-Plagirizing her thesis.

While she is still relevent in this case is beyond me considering how much of a liar she is.  

————————-

"Coach Williams was uncomfortable with that clustering in AFAM because it looked like the players were being steered into that major, and after a year or two on the job he asked Holladay to make sure that basketball and ASPSA personnel were not steering players to the AFAM Department." pg. 73

We also tried to re-interview Willingham about her supplemental allegation about Coach Williams, but her attorney in her civil lawsuit against the University did not grant us permission.

As for Willingham’s allegation that Williams said that her job was to keep players eligible, Coach Williams flatly denies it for two reasons. First, to his knowledge, he believes he has never spoken to Mary Willingham. Second, even if he had spoken to her, he would never make that statement, as it is directly contrary to the belief that he constantly preaches that their number one responsibility as coaches and counselors is to make sure their players get a good education." pg. 74

————————–

Read the actual report.  Don’t get your information from media sites that will do anything for clicks.  

 

[tuck243Participant]

1. Wayne Walden…  The guy who Coach Roy brought from Kansas, the guy who Coach Roy described in his book as a person "that he couldn’t do without" knew…  And when asked if he told Coach Roy he said "I can’t recall"…  

 2. Roy in an interview in 2012 stated he knew every class every player took and how they were doing in those classes and he was proud of the fact he kept tabs on them. Two years later he says he didn’t know about the classes his players took. Which statement is true, and which one is a lie?

3. Regardless on her unethical protocols on getting her information (I’m sure you can thank the legal team for UNC for attacking her character).  She was right! It doesn’t matter.  Out of all the people that attended those classes Roy players took 167 classes and that was more than any other team.  

4. Derrick Rose…  Some else took his SAT prior to attending Memphis…  He wasn’t even enrolled in school yet and the Tigers still had to vacant their banner.   An entire institution was passing players with fake classes for GPA boosting reasons.  Like you can’t make this up, THAT’S a fact.  Even if Roy was somehow telling the truth…  HOW THE HELL DO YOU STILL CLAIM IGNORANCE?  It’s his job to know.  From 1993 to 2008 all records should be gone.

[tuck243Participant]

1. Wayne Walden…  The guy who Coach Roy brought from Kansas, the guy who Coach Roy described in his book as a person "that he couldn’t do without" knew…  And when asked if he told Coach Roy he said "I can’t recall"…  

 2. Roy in an interview in 2012 stated he knew every class every player took and how they were doing in those classes and he was proud of the fact he kept tabs on them. Two years later he says he didn’t know about the classes his players took. Which statement is true, and which one is a lie?

3. Regardless on her unethical protocols on getting her information (I’m sure you can thank the legal team for UNC for attacking her character).  She was right! It doesn’t matter.  Out of all the people that attended those classes Roy players took 167 classes and that was more than any other team.  

4. Derrick Rose…  Some else took his SAT prior to attending Memphis…  He wasn’t even enrolled in school yet and the Tigers still had to vacant their banner.   An entire institution was passing players with fake classes for GPA boosting reasons.  Like you can’t make this up, THAT’S a fact.  Even if Roy was somehow telling the truth…  HOW THE HELL DO YOU STILL CLAIM IGNORANCE?  It’s his job to know.  From 1993 to 2008 all records should be gone.

[ncballer]

 I chose stick to the report rather than pull quotes out of context.  

It is evident he knew what classes his players were taking as he took action to make sure not all of them were taking AFAM classes.  

Not only were they unethical protocols,  SHE FABRICATED THE DAMN DATA. 

If you read the damn report you would see that not only did advisors advise athletes to take the classes.  They advised ANY STUDENT (ATHLETE OR NOT) THAT WAS STRUGGLING TO TAKE THOSE CLASSES BECAUSE THEY HEARD THEY WERE EASY.  That is not an NCAA violation to have advisors advise all students to take easy classes.

Now the fact that these classes were bogus falls on Crowder and Julius N’yrango primarily.  Very few advisors would have the means or the time to find out if the classes were total BS or not.  For all they knew they were just easy.  

This falls on Crowder and N’yrango

[ncballer]

 I chose stick to the report rather than pull quotes out of context.  

It is evident he knew what classes his players were taking as he took action to make sure not all of them were taking AFAM classes.  

Not only were they unethical protocols,  SHE FABRICATED THE DAMN DATA. 

If you read the damn report you would see that not only did advisors advise athletes to take the classes.  They advised ANY STUDENT (ATHLETE OR NOT) THAT WAS STRUGGLING TO TAKE THOSE CLASSES BECAUSE THEY HEARD THEY WERE EASY.  That is not an NCAA violation to have advisors advise all students to take easy classes.

Now the fact that these classes were bogus falls on Crowder and Julius N’yrango primarily.  Very few advisors would have the means or the time to find out if the classes were total BS or not.  For all they knew they were just easy.  

This falls on Crowder and N’yrango

[tuck243Participant]

 Colleges have compliance protocols to follow..  How the hell advisors don’t know these classes aren’t real for 18 years? Like that doesn’t even make sense….  

But let’s stick to the article like you said…  Worried about clustering? When exactly did Roy start worrying about his players taking these classes? Last year? 2006? When?  Also, just because it’s an article doesn’t mean everything in it is gold…  Majority is from people giving statements…  There aren’t any concrete information here.   Roy like how Roy said he doesn’t remember talking to her?  Not he DIDNT, he can’t remember.  It’s little stuff like that that bothers me.   And the whole Walden situation.   I understand your point, but it’s so fishy to me.  18 years this goes on and the people that did it weren’t professors or advisors.  No one knew but these 2? How is that even ok? 

[tuck243Participant]

 Colleges have compliance protocols to follow..  How the hell advisors don’t know these classes aren’t real for 18 years? Like that doesn’t even make sense….  

But let’s stick to the article like you said…  Worried about clustering? When exactly did Roy start worrying about his players taking these classes? Last year? 2006? When?  Also, just because it’s an article doesn’t mean everything in it is gold…  Majority is from people giving statements…  There aren’t any concrete information here.   Roy like how Roy said he doesn’t remember talking to her?  Not he DIDNT, he can’t remember.  It’s little stuff like that that bothers me.   And the whole Walden situation.   I understand your point, but it’s so fishy to me.  18 years this goes on and the people that did it weren’t professors or advisors.  No one knew but these 2? How is that even ok? 

[ncballer]

Considering the fact that Willingham’s attorney did not let her comment on her allegation of Roy Williams might answer all the questions you need to know.  

Those 2 people were high up on the totem pole who approved those classes and one of which did the majority of the grading.  Hell even if the people knew Crowder was doing the grading how the hell were advisors supposed to know it was full of crap without her overtly telling the advisors of their schemes?

This was extreme oversight by the administration and does not involve athletics as much as the media is reporting and I think that is evidence by more than half of the victims being non-athletes and testimonies of students being steered to those classes that were on the verge of academic probation/losing academic scholarships.  

If you look at the histories of the basketball teams since Roy has been there, the AFAM majors have gone down signficantly since 2005.  That is backed up.  IIRC (correct me if I am wrong) there were no AFAM majors on the 2009 team, so the history backs that up.    

The thing that the NCAA might hit UNC athletics with is lack of internal control, however that should fall more on the university, not the athletic department.  Again I am going to reiterate how advisors steered all students regardless of athletic participation to those courses knowing they were easy courses.  

 Considering the actions the mens basketball team took within it and the fact that McCants suddenly doesn’t want to talk anymore makes me think if sanctions were given to athletic programs, men’s basketball is in the clear.  

 

[ncballer]

Considering the fact that Willingham’s attorney did not let her comment on her allegation of Roy Williams might answer all the questions you need to know.  

Those 2 people were high up on the totem pole who approved those classes and one of which did the majority of the grading.  Hell even if the people knew Crowder was doing the grading how the hell were advisors supposed to know it was full of crap without her overtly telling the advisors of their schemes?

This was extreme oversight by the administration and does not involve athletics as much as the media is reporting and I think that is evidence by more than half of the victims being non-athletes and testimonies of students being steered to those classes that were on the verge of academic probation/losing academic scholarships.  

If you look at the histories of the basketball teams since Roy has been there, the AFAM majors have gone down signficantly since 2005.  That is backed up.  IIRC (correct me if I am wrong) there were no AFAM majors on the 2009 team, so the history backs that up.    

The thing that the NCAA might hit UNC athletics with is lack of internal control, however that should fall more on the university, not the athletic department.  Again I am going to reiterate how advisors steered all students regardless of athletic participation to those courses knowing they were easy courses.  

 Considering the actions the mens basketball team took within it and the fact that McCants suddenly doesn’t want to talk anymore makes me think if sanctions were given to athletic programs, men’s basketball is in the clear.  

 

[tuck243Participant]

because they just filed a civil suit against UNC on Monday.  Her not cooperating on Roy Williams at this time has nothing do with she’s lying.  Roy Williams already made it impossible to catch him in a lie by saying ‘he can’t remember’.  Regardless if she has video evidence of her telling him, he couldn’t remember..  

Even with that said, it being a university issue or not.  They Carolina Tarheels played players that took bogus classes.  Carolina should lose accreditation for that…  Which is another point, no one caught this then? Also, having that as their major is irrelevant because they still took the classes.  Like I said, knowing or not athletics should still be liable for this and banners should come down.  

 

[tuck243Participant]

because they just filed a civil suit against UNC on Monday.  Her not cooperating on Roy Williams at this time has nothing do with she’s lying.  Roy Williams already made it impossible to catch him in a lie by saying ‘he can’t remember’.  Regardless if she has video evidence of her telling him, he couldn’t remember..  

Even with that said, it being a university issue or not.  They Carolina Tarheels played players that took bogus classes.  Carolina should lose accreditation for that…  Which is another point, no one caught this then? Also, having that as their major is irrelevant because they still took the classes.  Like I said, knowing or not athletics should still be liable for this and banners should come down.  

 

[ncballer]

1.  I fail to see the correlation with the suit and her not being able to comment.  The investigation has been going on for a while.  She was obviously contacted well before Monday.

"It is important to note that Willingham said nothing about this alleged encounter with Coach Williams either in her initial public statements about the paper classes or in our interview with her." pg. 72-73

—————————–

So I reiterate that the evidence points to MW lying.  

2.  I will not deny that they did take the classes.  However the knowledge of paper BS classes is what makes coffins here.  For the NCAA to fairly bring sanctions to an athletic program in this situation, I think that the following requisites must be met:

1.  Full knowledge of the sham (according to report the closest they can come is that Walden knew that Crowder graded papers, however no evidence that he knew her grading was BS)

2.  Exploitation of the scam (the Men’s b-ball team, according to evidence presented in report, did not exploit the scam rather fight against it unknowingly)

By your logic then 53% (non-athletes) of 3100 student victims should have to throw away their diplomas?  

It’s sad and unethical what has happened.  I hope you don’t think I am downplaying the severity of the issue.  In an ideal world all 3100 students would have to retake those classes with the BS out of it.  If the players pass the retakes, then no sanctions should be imposed.  That is simply unrealistic IMHO.

From my interpretation of the report as it pertains to the men’s basketball team:

1.  Roy came in at a bad time where the majority of team was majoring in AFAM.

2.  Roy did what he could not to cluster athletes into that major

3.  Their was an assumption that those in AFAM were actually doing their job (not an unreasonable assumption)

Therefore if there are sanctions it will be because of Roy getting to UNC at the wrong time, which 

[ncballer]

1.  I fail to see the correlation with the suit and her not being able to comment.  The investigation has been going on for a while.  She was obviously contacted well before Monday.

"It is important to note that Willingham said nothing about this alleged encounter with Coach Williams either in her initial public statements about the paper classes or in our interview with her." pg. 72-73

—————————–

So I reiterate that the evidence points to MW lying.  

2.  I will not deny that they did take the classes.  However the knowledge of paper BS classes is what makes coffins here.  For the NCAA to fairly bring sanctions to an athletic program in this situation, I think that the following requisites must be met:

1.  Full knowledge of the sham (according to report the closest they can come is that Walden knew that Crowder graded papers, however no evidence that he knew her grading was BS)

2.  Exploitation of the scam (the Men’s b-ball team, according to evidence presented in report, did not exploit the scam rather fight against it unknowingly)

By your logic then 53% (non-athletes) of 3100 student victims should have to throw away their diplomas?  

It’s sad and unethical what has happened.  I hope you don’t think I am downplaying the severity of the issue.  In an ideal world all 3100 students would have to retake those classes with the BS out of it.  If the players pass the retakes, then no sanctions should be imposed.  That is simply unrealistic IMHO.

From my interpretation of the report as it pertains to the men’s basketball team:

1.  Roy came in at a bad time where the majority of team was majoring in AFAM.

2.  Roy did what he could not to cluster athletes into that major

3.  Their was an assumption that those in AFAM were actually doing their job (not an unreasonable assumption)

Therefore if there are sanctions it will be because of Roy getting to UNC at the wrong time, which 

[llperez]

 keep in mind the hammer that the usc football program got handed to them over reggie bush. All investigations came up with usc coaches and aministrators not knowing anything. But the shcool was still punished harshly. Bush was from san diego. He met a guy in san diego who had zero ties to usc. That guy gave reggie and his family money so that he could represent him once he was in the nfl(had nothing to do with usc or going to usc). Yet usc was heavily sanctioned. I would argue the fact that unc issues happened on campus and dealt directly with unc workers and had to do with unc athletes being able to play at unc makes significantly worse then the bush situation. 

[llperez]

 keep in mind the hammer that the usc football program got handed to them over reggie bush. All investigations came up with usc coaches and aministrators not knowing anything. But the shcool was still punished harshly. Bush was from san diego. He met a guy in san diego who had zero ties to usc. That guy gave reggie and his family money so that he could represent him once he was in the nfl(had nothing to do with usc or going to usc). Yet usc was heavily sanctioned. I would argue the fact that unc issues happened on campus and dealt directly with unc workers and had to do with unc athletes being able to play at unc makes significantly worse then the bush situation. 

[McDunkin]

http://youtu.be/1T5QyTs3h1Y

[McDunkin]

http://youtu.be/1T5QyTs3h1Y

[Author]

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