[Knicksboy34Participant]

I though about some NBA What-if”s and came up with my top 8. You can add yours, also i will give you my opinion on what would have happened.

1. What if Len Bias played for the Boston Celtics? Man, This could have changed everything. Bird, McHale and DJ could have shown him the ropes and he was being called “Better than Jordan” coming out of College. Overall, I think Boston would have added 2-3 more titles to thier showcase and then The pistons years probably would have been erased.

2.What if Pippen would have been kept by Seattle? Easy, Jordan would have been called a top 5 player but not the greatest player. Pippen in Seattle would have been interesting. He wouldn’t have effected them getting Kemp…but he would effected them getting Payton….

3.What If Dallas took Thomas over Aguirre? I think this move could have changed Dallas’ Franchise. Thomas was a good PG from Day 1 and could have been partnered up with Rolando Blackman…or even Larry Nance.

4. What if Milwaukee listened to Glenn Robinson? Glenn Robinson said he did not wanna play for the Bucks. They took him anyway. Funny, the 2nd and 3rd picks? Kidd and Hill

5. What If Philadelphia went Hometown kid? In 1996, Philadelphia had the 1st pick, Allen Iverson wasn’t a terrible choice but hindsight says it was the 2nd best choice. In PA, they had a superstar there named…Kobe. Now Imagine Kobe in Philly with Stackhouse (who was tight friends with Kobe when he was in HS) and Shaq in LA without Kobe….

6. What if Boston kept Billups and made the Right move in 97? Billups was a score first PG who could play. He needed time (and now we know the rest). The Right move I was talking about…Tracy McGrady.

7. What if Milwaukee never shipped Dirk? Dirk, Fresh off a 30 point performance in a euro camp was picked 9th by the Bucks and shipped for Tractor Traylor. Dirk, Allen, Robinson, Thomas and Cassell. Title? I think so….

8. What if Darko wasn’t picked second? Biggest NBA draft question of the Millenium. Well, to be fair let’s replace him with another Big Man in Bosh. Bosh could have been a solid man of the bench and could have helped the Pistons repeat. Wade would have gave you a solid Slasher off the bench and could have forced you to trade Hamilton or allowed Billups to walk. Melo would have been a animal off the bench and could have given you a pure scorer off the bench. (The reason i said off the bench? Larry Brown doesnt really play Rooks.)

what do u think?

[maravich44Participant]

What if Portland took Jordan instead of Bowie?

What if Bird wasn’t drafted by Celtics as Junior Eligible or didn’t sign prior to next draft? Remember that rule exhisted for one year only. Bulls would have had either Bird or Magic (whoever Lakers didn’t pick). Having either drafted by Bulls in 1979 would likely have meant that Bulls wouldn’t have been in position to draft Jordan in ’84.

Those are my 2 favs.

[bamasullyParticipant]

All those what ifs were good, but look at Atlanta. What if they draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams. What if they take Brandon Roy instead of Shelden Williams. They would probably take Terrence Williams over Blake Griffin because his last name is Williams. Having Billy Knight resign was the best thing for that organization. They made it to the conference semis despite those bone headed moves. Also, what if Utah never traded Nique to Atlanta for John Drew. Stockton, Mailman and Nique would have been on the same team. Scary

[GoodbyeChandlerParticipant]

what if toronto picked roy in 2007? they would have something to keep bosh in toronto and maybe, he would have signed that extention last week. dont get me wrong, bargnani is decent, but he isn’t keeping bosh in toronto. matter of fact,in 2010, toronto may have to decide between the two.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I thoughtt of that one. Roy would have been perfect for Bosh

Also, I think Portland still would have ended up with Oden…

What if Portland took Durant over Oden?

[dose2100Participant]

portland doesn’t need a ball hog scorer like durant… they already had two go to scorers in roy and randolph (plus aldridge has become one in the meantime… plus, durant is a poor defender, so while he might add some firepower to the blazers in the way of another outside jump shooting scorer (which may not be as helpful to the blazers as oden’s inside power scorering and offensive rebounding), he definately won’t add the defensive presence of oden and would hurt the blazers on that end of the court… plus, they would not ahve been able to trade away randolph… they would definately not had enough shots to go around, plus they would have been horrible on defense with both durant and randolph being poor defenders and no inside defensive presence…

durant is definately the better player right now, but oden will probably become a dominant center (at least a poor man’s dwight howard), which is probably going to help the blazers more in the future…

sometimes a players fit on a team is more important than their difference in talent level… i still whole heartedly believe that oden was the right choice…

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Ball-hog? Well all i know is

Durant, Roy and Aldridge wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Roy Aldridge and Oden

Durant and Roy could have been a top 10 combo in the league today.

[sheltwon3Participant]

How is Durant a ball hog. He does shoot a lot but he is told to and he hit around 40 percent from 3 and close 50 percent overall in his second year. he goes to the foul line at a decent clip an shoots about 90 percent. He also has like 5 assists, a steal and a block are so. He is still learning to play defense but with his quickness and length he will get it. I still like the Oden choice because he is going to be like Dwight in a few but he has a better post game now. It is more about getting game experience and his confidence. Also staying healthy.

[sheltwon3Participant]

@ dose you will not be getting any points on this point from anyone lol

[dose2100Participant]

i meant to say a ball dominant scorer… i worded it poorly… my bad… but that doesn’t mean my post was bad or wrong… having four mid range scorers (roy, durant, randolph, aldridge) would make for a poorly spread offense… plus, they would have a horrible defense… they would be just like the knicks/clippers…

i was trying to say that oden adds more of what they need to become a better team… having a well put together team with good chemistry can be more important than having a more talented team…

[birdman1113Participant]

what if Portland had kept their pick and drafted Chris Paul?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

LOL…You meant Ball-Hog…its ok

But i disagree. Cut Randolph from that team ( they traded him during that draft)

insert Durant who i believe will be a top 3 player by 2010.

I think with all that talent, Portland could have been a #1 seed in the west if you add Durant.

[dose2100Participant]

look at the record of the thunder w/ (18-56) and w/o (5-3)durant… he might be a great scorer, but he’s doesn’t help his team win…

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Birdman…good one.

[DeRozanfan11]

Knicksboy go make your picks!

[Knicksboy34Participant]

look at the record of the thunder w/ (18-56) and w/o (5-3)durant… he might be a great scorer, but he’s doesn’t help his team win…

1st- Look at that conference…

2nd- They’re all young and still at there prime….

[RickyRubio9Participant]

What if John Lennon didn’t leave the Beatles? :O lol.
What if Houston had tooken Jordan. Jordan and Ralph Sampson would’ve created the best little man big man combo.
What if Charlotte kept Kobe?
What if the Rockets kept Richard Jefferson and then drafted Yao?
What if Francis wasn’t traded Houston?
What if Foye wasn’t traded for Roy?
What IF UNC didn’t win it all that year with Felton leading, would he have been drafted ahead of WILLIAMS and PAUL by Charlotte? Or Maybe Marvin Williams doesn’t go number two? That title pushed them over the top.

[jcjParticipant]

Even with the title, Felton was not drafted ahead of Paul and Deron Williams. Without the championship, maybe he drops down further, but does not move up.

As for Marvin Williams, I think he was really drafted that high on potential. If they didn’t win, maybe he stays in school another year or two and his flaws come out and he gets drafted lower when he does come out. Sometimes the one year in college works wonders too – it allows the player to showcase just enough flash and potential and not as much of the flaws.

[specialkParticipant]

What if Kobe never left charlotte? And charlotte never let Grandma get away? On talent, and pure shooting ability, the hornets would have had to win a title or two.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

What if Houston had tooken Jordan. Jordan and Ralph Sampson would’ve created the best little man big man combo. Maybe. I still would have to think not. Sampson got hurt and Jordan would have been by himself.

What if Charlotte kept Kobe? Kobe would have been a beast for the Hornets, then left for LA.

What if the Rockets kept Richard Jefferson and then drafted Yao? Nothing, They would still be average

What if Francis wasn’t traded Houston? Francis would have been traded elsewhere and Houston would have gotten lottery pick after lottery pick

What if Foye wasn’t traded for Roy? Portland = Screwed and Minnesota would be a playoff team.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Charlotte Question- They would have not won a title.

[dose2100Participant]

what do those two things have to do with the thunder playing better when he was hurt? plus, they haven’t gotten to their prime yet, how are they “still at their prime?” also, them being a young team should have made them more likely to fall apart when their star player got hurt… an experienced team is much more resilient to losing their best player…

also, how do you know what i meant to type? i was thinking “ball dominant” but i couldn’t find the correct way to write what i was thinking, and typed ball hog cause it was the closest thing i came up with in the second it took me to type that…

but ya, good question birdman… i have thought about that a couple times… he would have been a great player for portland, and could have made randolph a much better player, along with everyone else… however, their 2006 draft would have changed dramatically because they would have been much better with paul than webster… they still could have gotten roy because they basically traded telfair and ratliff for the sixth pick (through boston and minnesota)… however, would they have kept telfair (who was the reason they didn’t draft deron or paul in the first place due to a silly team mancrush on telfair) if they drafted paul, and would they have still drafted roy if they had paul (they probably would have drafted rudy gay)? however, they wouldn’t have gotten the high pick they traded for aldridge, so who knows who they would have drafted with the later pick…

they also would not have not gotten the number one pick, aka oden, if they had drafted paul because they most likely would have been back in the playoffs in 2006…

however, i probably would rather have paul and a later first round pick (who knows who), than aldridge and oden… but it could switch if oden develops into a great center…

[Knicksboy34Participant]

LOL…Ball-hog..ball dominant means 2 different things slow

If they drafted Paul, they wouldnt have gotten Roy which meant no Oden

In the West, with 9 out of the 12 teams with winning records…they would have had a bad record against the west and they did ok in the east….

Durant still is skinny and lacks the inside attack of a 3
Green is undersized at the 4 but is still a good rebounder
Westbrook was a 1st year pg….

[RickyRubio9Participant]

you honestly think Richard Jefferson would not have made them any better then Eddie Griffin?
Francis, Mobley, Yao, and Jefferson? That doesn’t sound like lottery after lottery. Their bench would have improved sooner rather then later.
Michael Jordan and Sampson? Sampson wasn’t hurt while with the Rockets for the 3 seasons.. Jordan could have pushed them over the Lakers and it would’ve been Magic and Jordan going at it in the West. And the time they played Celtics in ’86 they would’ve put up more of a fight.
I doubt Kobe would’ve been pushed to leave to L.A if Charlotte were successful.
Portland wouldn’t be screwed because if all kept going on, they still had Aldridge and instead of picking Oden they would’ve been forced to pick Durant. Their team just would’ve tooken longer to become as successful as now, but I guess you are a Guru.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Kobe wanted to go to LA..He said he wouldnt play for noone else. He prob played the 3 years under the deal and left.

Jefferson would have made them alittle better…but then they probably wouldnt have gotten Yao.

Jordan and Sampson against Kareem, Magic, Scott, Worthy, Mcadoo? I think Lakers in 4.]

Im not a Guru. I just look at everything.

[nepaliman_7Participant]

what if the blazers in 84 traded for first pick and took olajwoun and jordan?

what if new orleans didn’t trade the pick that became magic johnson?

what if charlotte kept kobe?

[RickyRubio9Participant]

would’ve been the greatest combo ever in the history of history. I would have loved hearing about that, but not if they were Blazers. 🙂 Still if you put Jordan and The Dream together. I say they win 8 titles at least without a great supporting cast. If given that, they easily win 10 and dominate until the 2000’s

[RickyRubio9Participant]

How in the World can you say Lakers in four if the Rockets had BEATEN THE LAKERS TO GET TO THE FINALS IN 86.
-.-” That’s like saying Jordan made them worse….

[dose2100Participant]

yes, they do mean different things, but they are similar… they both mean someone who likes to have the ball in his hands and shoots a lot… which is the point i was trying to make… while i do agree he is a somewhat willing passer (and he will become better at this as he develops and matures), he does take a lot of shots, and he is best with the ball in his hands… he is similar to roy in this way… plus, having roy and durant would be like mayo and gay… they just wouldn’t be at their best playing together, especially when they had aldridge there as well (who happens to have confidence issues and wouldn’t have developed as much if he didn’t get his touches like he did two seasons ago)…

i just described how they still could have gotten roy if they drafted paul… they traded for that pick… and any change at all probably would have kept them from getting the oden pick because of the lottery system and them winning with a very low chance… roy or no roy wouldn’t have changed this… so that argument is just stupid…

i don’t understand what the third point has to do with anything…

and your fourth point is exactly what i was saying… they haven’t reached their prime yet… i usually like your posts, but your just coming off stupid… (sorry, i have a movie quoting problem, and that statement would usually be a bit extreme…)

[Knicksboy34Participant]

UHHH THEY COULDNT HAVE JORDAN AND HAKEEM, DRAFTED THE SAME YEAR…..

[jcjParticipant]

This combination could have been a possibility. In 84, the Rockets had the top pick and Sampson was coming off his rookie year. Portland, picking 2nd, wanted a big man and the best available was Sam Bowie. And while you can make a case for Houston trading Olajuwon instead of Sampson, they could have shipped off Ralph to Portland for the 2nd pick, and then taken Jordan instead of Bowie.

Either way, the Sampson-Jordan or Olajuwon-Jordan combos in Houston would be interesting prospects. That would have mean they trade away Lewis Lloyd and/or Mitchell Wiggins, but given their premature, drug induced career suicides, they should have traded those two and gotten back some other serviceable players instead.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Thank you for the Comment I guess but IMO,

Ball-Hog- A person who always wants the ball
Ball-Dominant- A person who Needs the ball to operate

Think about if your left hand dominant..your left is better but you can still use your right.

I feel you. But Roy seems to me like a guy who could be a 20pts-7ast guy while Durant could be the 25pts-12reb kinda guy. I mean both have good mid-range game but Durant has the pop in his game. Think Hill-McGrady.

I said they wouldnt have gotten Paul becasue thier pick was 4. they would have been better with Paul to move that up about 5-7 spots up and then they traded it to get Aldridge and then add Roy? no way. They would had have to pay more to get Aldridge and probably coudnt get Roy

[dose2100Participant]

ya, and they are similar enough to interchange if you couldn’t think of the other term at the time… and i already stated that i think durant is a ball dominant player, not a ball hog… he is getting much better on the off ball scoring than he used to be, but he is much better with the ball…

roy and durant would have been a good combo and those numbers seem right (but i’m not sure if durant will become that good of a rebounder, especially on a team that actually had some good post players/rebounders), but when you add in aldridge, it becomes a mess and changes everything… oden is a much better fit for those two players since aldridge is a high post / midrange scorer…

they actually had the third overall pick in the 2005 draft… they traded it in stead of picking paul or deron and got the sixth pick which they used on webster… and they wouldn’t have been able to get aldridge, but they still could have gotten roy easily because they traded players for that pick… and i said they wouldn’t have gotten aldridge… it would have been too difficult to get the second pick from where they would be picking… you keep coming back to things i didn’t say…

i will admit that i am a homer though, when it comes to portland…

[thaprodigyParticipant]

If B-Roy was kept by Minnesota we would need to re-do every year he’s beeb in the league because him and kg they would’ve made the playoffs KG wouldn’t have left the Celtics would have had Foye and woludnt have picked up Rondo Portland would still be lottery all-stars

[thaprodigyParticipant]

If B-Roy was kept by Minnesota we would need to re-do every year he’s beeb in the league because him and kg they would’ve made the playoffs KG wouldn’t have left the Celtics would have had Foye and woludnt have picked up Rondo Portland would still be lottery all-stars so celtics don’t win championship and the last 3 years have to be re done

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I feel you. I would hate for anyone to talk bad about NYK.

I understand what you are saying i just think Durant could have been a more solid player with Roy

Do u think if Portland had Durant during that playoff series against Houston?

[dose2100Participant]

ya, durant would have been much less of a “ball hog” his rookie season if he had roy and aldridge around him… he probably would have worked his way to where he is now much quicker… but he still wouldn’t fit well with the team portland had… they still could have messed with the team to fit better with durant…

oden was one of the main reasons they were able to contain yao (except for game one) for most of the series… pryzbilla, frye, and aldridge all were beat by yao… only oden held his own… however, portland did get almost nothing from their sf, so he would have really changed that… so i’m not really sure who i would have rather had…

durant is the better player and might have helped with the offensive woes for portland in that series, because roy definitely got really banged up and tired as that series went on because no one else on that team was helping out on offense… houston was the nightmare matchup for portland because they are a soft team (which durant would not have helped with), even with oden… but houston did man handle portland that series…

on another point, people don’t realize how big of a difference oden made when he was on the floor… he changed the entire game, and if he could have stayed on the floor (he is a fouling machine) he would have developed an offensive rhythm and made a much bigger difference… stats aren’t always everything… he also is already one of the top rebounders in the league (just look at hollingers PER numbers)…

[Knicksboy34Participant]

JCJ-

Youre telling me to trade a recent 7-3 4-time NCAA all-American for unproven players?

come on now….

[jcjParticipant]

Of course my input is all based on assumptions. I also mentioned it because you said Olajuwon and Jordan could not be teammates because they were drafted the same year. Admittedly it presumes some imagination and also presumes that the Rockets were not enamored with the “Twin Towers” concept. All I’m saying is that it COULD have happened, albeit unlikely. The conditions would have been:

1. Houston was not considering the twin towers concept. Traditional thinking at that time would have said you only have room in the line up for one big center. That said, and presuming the Rockets had to decide, they would have been more likely to keep Olajuwon even as a rookie because of the hometown ties. Again, this is based on the premise that the 2 big men cannot play together and that you would have had to use one off the bench (ala the failed version of the twin towers in NY – Ewing and Cartwright).

2. Working on the premise that the twin towers could not work, one trade option would be to Portland, who highly coveted either Sampson or Olajuwon. Aside from the #2 pick, based on Portland’s 1983-84 roster (i.e. before the Kiki Vandeweghe-Calvin Natt trade), the Rockets could have asked for then rookie Clyde Drexler plus the players Portland eventually traded for Vandeweghe (Calvin Natt to start at the 4 spot, Wayne Cooper as back-up C/PF, and Fat Lever as PG insurance for John Lucas).

3. With the #2 pick, they could have taken Jordan. That assumes they were high on him of course, which I really can’t vouch for.

That though would have left Houston with a very deep rotation plus some excess players:

Starters: Olajuwon, Natt, McCray, Lucas, Jordan
6th Man: Drexler
Reserves: CF Cooper, PG Lever, OG Lewis Lloyd
Tradeables/Excess Players: SF Robert Reid, OG Mitchell Wiggins, PG Allen Leavell

Portland, on the other hand, would have received the big man they have desired for in Sampson, and would have been able to team him up with a backcourt of Darnell Valentine (at that time their starting PG over Lever for some reason) and Jim Paxson in his prime, plus Mychal Thompson moving from center to PF. They would have a hole at SF, but Houston could include Reid in the Sampson deal to make it work for both teams.

[Mr. BasketballParticipant]

what if the clippers had taken amare instead of wilcox? (they were supposedly going to)

what if the clippers had won the 2003 lottery and taken lebron? would they still be cursed?

what if the clippers had won the 2004 lottery (they got #2) and taken dwight?

what if livingston did not have that injury? Top 5 pg in the game right now?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Clippers….good question ill answer them in order.

1. Taking Amare would be a risk like Wilcox. Amare needed a PG early and while Im looking at this roster….they had none. He could have been a bust

2. While the Clippers had like the 8th or 9th best chance to win it. If they got LBJ, they would be great right now.

3. Clippers got the 3rd pick. And, if either

A- wouldnt have happened cuz u got LBJ the year before
B-got Howard and let Brand and him be a tandem

4. No he would not be a top 5 PG.

[Mr. BasketballParticipant]

knicksboy:

2. they had the 5th best chance

3A. there all separate scenarios

4. why?

[j1232eParticipant]

I dont no if I like this subject because you never know how that player would do with that coach or organization that being said.
What if the jazz had not traded #1 pick Magic Jonhson for the aging Gail Googrich.
What if the Jazz had not traded Domnique Wilkins to the hawks for 1 million in cash.
Then the Jazz would have never had John Stockton and Karl Malone.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Yea I mean. To Answer your question……..I’m asking that what do u think about what if? I mean…you could somewhat make a assumption what happened

Utah had a cash flow problem when they drafted ‘Nique…they had to get rid of someone to make money

Magic to Utah would have been decent but…in 82 he asked for a trade…even after winning a title. He may have been Traded and maybe even to the Lakers.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Clippers

2. In the 2003, NBA Draft? They got the 9th pick…they had the 9th best chance to get LBJ.

3. My bad, they did have the 5th

3a. Yea, i still answered your question though..B is if they got Dwight and not LBJ.

4. Livingston was making progress but he was not a top 15 PG when he got hurt. He was good not great he was missing something from his game………

[maravich44Participant]

What if Bulls had 1st pick in draft and picked Ming. Instead they got J. Williams. Ok, so what if Jay Williams didn’t get hurt in motorcycle accident? What if they didn’t trade Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler? What if they didn’t trade Artest for nothing? What if D. Wade fell to them like he was supposed to? No one thought Riley would draft him for the Heat. Or, they could have traded up, but didn’t want to part with Donyell Marshall. What if they traded for Kobe Bryant? I could sure understand why they refused to part with Deng. Could have and should have drafted Roy instead of T. Thomas

I know it doesn’t work this way because lotto would have been different, etc., but this is what if, right?

Ming
Brand
Kobe
Wade
Rose

Bench would include Artest, Roy. What if they went undefeated??????????

[maravich44Participant]

Bulls won 6 titles in 8 years. What if Jordan didn’t retire to play baseball for a year and a half? Bulls win 2 more titles very likely. What if he didn’t retire after Utah series in ’98? Maybe they win more. *-10 titles would have been possible to likely, and that’s not stretching the bounds of liklihood like my last post.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I mean yes to a point but you have to factor numbers in stuff… i mean if would have effected everything

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Yea but you could have said…what if MJ got caught pushing off on Russell?

[maravich44Participant]

Yes you could. That’s what what if is! That would have been ahighly unlikely thing though. When does a superstar not get the call at home. Any ref would swallow his whistle. He would have been killed at the United Center if he’d call an offensive fould. But yes, you can still say what if.

[WildDudeParticipant]

What if Kobe’s agent didn’t twist Kobe’s words around as he had Kobe saying he refused to play for the nets… we instead picked Kerry Kittles blahh

What if Orlando decides its not worth it to take a chance on a high schooler and picks the most dominant player in Emeka Okafor instead of Dwight Howard

What if Lenny Cook- the best before he got schooled by Lebron… decides to go to college

and best of all… what if the age rule was still in effect! so many changes!

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Knicksboy, you make a post all about hypothetical situations and than you shoot down another guys hypothetical situation? I don’t know, had me cracking up. I mean, Len Bias (who is a very tragic figure in sports, and an extremely sad story) coming back from the grave sounds a tad more ridiculous than the trade JCJ offered. Also, if Pippen had stayed in Seattle, than maybe the Bulls might have made moves to get different players to surround Michael (and that is not a maybe, it would have been a definitely, and someone would have gone to help Michael win, if Michael himself didn’t bounce). Also, how does Larry Nance come into the equation with the Isiah Thomas thing? Dude never played for Dallas, and if I remember correctly, I think Adrian Dantley did, and Isiah chased his ass out of Detroit. Big Dog was a beast out of Purdue, and never lived up to the hype and while Jason Kidd and Grant Hill had better careers, would either of them lead Milwaukee to titles? A better question for 1996 would have been what if Tim Duncan had entered the draft, because than Philly would have gotten a franchise center (because he would not have had David Robinson and would actually be considered one). Kevin Garnett had much more of a chance of going one the year before than Kobe did, some people really thought the Warriors would take him, but Shaq without Kobe would most likely not have at least a couple rings (though I am far less enamored with that Jerry Stackhouse and Kobe Bryant combo than I am of the Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant combo that came to be).

They thought that Rick Pitino left college to draft Tracy McGrady, but instead he went with his own guy Mercer. McGrady supposedly would have gone to Kentucky had he gone to college though. Billups and McGrady would have been intriguing, plus add Antoine Walker, that is a lot of shots, lol. But hastily trading Billups away for Kenny Anderson seemed like the right move at the time (sarcasm), and the Raptors trading of Billups was equally as ridiculous. I think that Nowitzki and Traylor trade is the easiest of your hypotheticals to see happening, because you could see disaster written all over it. Robert Traylor was an undersized PF who broke a backboard for Michigan against Duke, which meant he had to be a combination of Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal (again sarcasm). Unfortunately, Robert Traylor could only make it down the court faster than his man if there was a cheese burger sitting on the baseline (which would clearly take his attention away from the game anyway, but you catch my drift). Dirk Nowitzki had just scored 30, I think actually more than 30, against the best high school players in the US at the Hoop Summit (plus I remembered he had a sick stat line, and 4 threes and even though it was sort of a weak HS class, it was the same draft as Al Harrington and Rashard Lewis, who Dirk tentatively made his bitches and who went 25 and 32 in the draft respectively and made a bunch of teams pay themselves). That Dirk Nowitzki trade to me is one of the bigger bonehead moves on draft day.

Now, with the whole Darko thing, many people even than thought Melo would have been the better pick, and even though we throw there names around now no one expected Bosh or Wade to go 2 in that draft. What made Darko so appealing was that he was a legit 7 footer, had a decent skill set and great athleticism for a guy his size and was 17 years old! I mean, people are throwing cautions flags on Rubio now, but back than with Darko, especially when the Pistons already had a squad that had done fairly well in the play-offs, they figured what could they lose? They may have indeed lost one, maybe two championships, but I do not think either of those would have been a certainty. If they have a player like Carmelo, I do not see that Rasheed Wallace deal, which was a ridiculous deal of ridiculous deals, going down. As much as Larry hates to play rooks, I just do not think the Hawks would have been stupid enough to make that ridiculous move and just stock pile that team with more talent, basketball Karma would not have allowed it :). So, imagine if they had not gotten Rasheed Wallace and ended up with Melo and Tayshaun splitting minutes, maybe playing Okur a little bit and getting some decent production. Are they a better team? It’s possible, but I doubt it. I would have liked the Lakers in a series switching Rasheed for Melo at the time, but, who knows, maybe Melo gets a ring. All I know is he wouldn’t have challenged LeBron for rookie of the year and would have had about as much fun with Larry Brown as he did sitting on the bench for the bronze medal Olympic team the summer afterwards (and who knows if he plays on that team with Brown as his coach in Detroit, which might have been a good thing for Melo).

Situation has so much to do with these things, which is why it is very hard to make sense out of something that did not happen or could have happened. What if Kevin Garnett stayed healthy this year? What if Manu and Timmy were healthy? Would the Suns had made the play-offs had Amare worn goggles this year? If the Cavs made the Shaq trade this year, would they had won the finals, or even beaten the Magic? I think what a lot of people were wondering is, how good would the Rockets had been if Yao and Tracy McGrady were both healthy? A lot of those hypotheticals when you look at them are far fetched, and back than were probably even more far fetched. If Detroit told GMs back than they were going to pick Dwyane Wade at 2, I am sure a number of them would have laughed or said they were crazy for passing up on Darko. I think Larry Brown beat the hell out of Darko and just gave up on him, and ask Darko’s Detroit team mates and I believe they will say the guy can play. But, I think you could maybe even ask if Darko went to a team where he had a chance to play and make mistakes and wasn’t just picked apart by everybody due to his counterparts having so much early success, would he maybe had a nice NBA career at this point? I still have faith that Darko can do alright, and though he has to be considered a bust up to this point, I still think he is only 23. Well, these things can be fun, but for any hypothetical you have to have an open mind, because there are always reason why it did or did not happen.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

I hear you about Kobe..he said he only wanted to play in LA. Thats why he didint go to Charlotte….And John Calipari (who was coach at the time) like Kittles

Orlando would have been in a less postion…a playoff team but not a final contender

I got one : Why if Everyone had 2 go to college?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

what did I shoot down? Jordan and Hakeem?

That would have never happened…come on now….it had like a 0000000.000001% chance of happening?

[jcjParticipant]

“That would have never happened…come on now….it had like a 0000000.000001% chance of happening?”

@Knicksboy34: Isn’t that what this post is all about? Things that are unlikely to have happened but which in hindsight would have been good? I would think that’s what a “what-if” scenario is all about…lol

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

So did all of yours man. If everyone had gone to college, the NBA would be a league where incredible changes could happen in single seasons time. Rookies would be able to change teams drastically and there would be a lot more solid rookie players. Players in the league would be extremely physically mature and it would be at a point where people might wonder how underclassmen could complete in the league. College would be crazy competitive and a lot more interesting to watch. Players would all be taking payola. Also, pigs would sprout wings and snow balls would be abundant in hell.

[Mr. BasketballParticipant]

what if baron davis gave a **** about the team last year?

[Knicksboy34Participant]

No im saying thing that could have happened…Come on now…Houston trades the rookie of the year, 7-3 C for 2 unproven players?

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Man, their would have been much more mind boggling trades before that one. Kobe for Divac. No one for Gasol and Rasheed (yes, I still consider Marc Gasol no one). Just let the man live his dream. The biggest one for most Blazers fans though, of things that were probably more likely to happen than most things listed before was what if Arvydas Sabonis had played in the NBA when he was young instead of starting off as a 30 year old rookie? Everyone says how incredible Sabonis was as a younger player, some even going as far as to call him Shaq with a 3 point shot. People here still kill themselves over thinking what Arvydas could have done had he came over in 1986 instead of 1995. He basically came over, got help on his knees from doctors over hear, than went back to Lithuania until he was pretty much past his prime. It is super unfortunate we did not get to see Sabonis when he was at his best, as though he was not dominant during his time in the league, he was still a pretty darn good player. Great passing big, hada nice shot to spread the court and just huge as all hell. Also, if you are going to talk about players passing away too soon, Reggie Lewis and Drazen Petrovic were both guys who died right as they were becoming All-Star players. Very sad stuff.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Yea I mean, in the history of the NBA, there were ,many trades

Also, to the Houston guy. I dont think Houston just took Hakeem for hometown ties. They saw him play. He had the grace enough to play PF. It only failed because they had a power struggle and all thier guards were not that good. Also, 2 years later, Sampson got hurt and traded.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Houston did not just pick Hakeem because of hometown ties, but they picked Hakeem because he was considered a potential franchise player. I am pretty sure he made the All-Star team as a rook, didn’t start like Jordan, but I think he made it. Hakeem was considered a step below Ewing back than when it came to potential franchise players. I mean, a great what if is if Ewing would have gone in the draft. I am almost sure that Houston would have taken Ewing number 1, even with Hakeem’s hometown ties, than Portland scoops Hakeem at 2 and Phi Slamma Jamma moves to Portland. Ewing at that time was considered to be the second coming of Bill Russell, which sounds crazy to us now, even after a very solid career but no rings and no real dominance. I even was in Borders and saw a book of Dick Vitale’s top 25 or 50 college players of the last like 30 years, or whatever the hell his timeline was, but my point is that Patrick was #1. I can not believe I forgot that one, as I have sometimes thought of that, as Portland truly wanted to take Hakeem and just took Bowie as they thought he was the next best center available.

Also, sorry to keep harping on you Knicksboy, lol, but I thought of this a little while ago with regards to the dude’s Jordan/Drexler for Ralph Sampson trade. Ralph Sampson was an awesome college baller, and was the years previous rookie of the year, and he was 7-4, but they were going to be drafting a legitimate possible franchise center. How is trading him for the #3 pick and a guy who was definitely going to surpass his #14 billing the year before (and was the basic reason for Portland having taken Sam Bowie instead of Jordan) any crazier than drafting the guy who ended up going #13 with the #1 pick (in your Kobe over Iverson scenario). I am just saying, both had a sliver of a percentage of happening, does not mean that it is still not something a person can dream about.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

Well…no problem. Your not harping on me, its cool. But like i said. I mean Hakeem and Sampson was a ok combo and the Jordan thing never happened because i believe they had a all-star at SG there and they felt Hakeem can play the PF.

The Kobe thing could have happened. Kobe outplayed Stackhouse at a practice weeks before the Combine at a Fordham workout. Stackhouse wanted to work with Kobe, he even wanted to play at 3 so Kobe can play the 2.

[jcjParticipant]

Re the Houston-Portland fantasy trade, it would have been Sampson (and maybe Robert Reid) not just for Jordan and Drexler, but also Calvin Natt (who was a solid starter at forward then averaging about 17 ppg), Wayne Cooper who averaged between 8-12 points as a part time starter and Fat Lever (then the backup of Darnell Valentine). That trade would have netted Houston 2 starters (Jordan at SG, Natt at PF), and 3 starter quality reserves (Drexler at OG/SF, Lever at PG, and Cooper at C/PF). And looking at how the careers panned out, Drexler would have eventually supplanted Rodney McCray as starting SF, and Lever replaces John Lucas when drugs knock him out of the lineup. Assuming the still drafted Jim Petersen in the 3rd round of the 1985 draft, the Lakers may have been facing the following Rockets lineup:

PG: Fat Lever
OG: Michael Jordan
SF: Clyde Drexler
PF: Calvin Natt
C: Hakeem Olajuwon

Bench: SF/OG/PG Rodney McCray, C/PF Wayne Cooper, PF Jim Petersen, OG Lewis Lloyd, PG Allen Leavell.

Also, let me correct the impression that I felt Olajuwon was drafted because he was a hometown guy. He really was going number 1. For me the hometown guy would have factored in deciding whether to trade Sampson or Olajuwon. During the 1984 draft, not many people believed that the two 7 footers could play together. If Houston had to trade one of them at that time (that was before Olajuwon clearly established he would be a better player), and they were even up in terms of potential, they would more likely have still kept Olajuwon and his greater potential over Sampson and his more impressive college credentials.

I do agree though that the twin towers were interesting. I became a fan of Houston because of that. I only wish we would have been able to get full value for Sampson by trading him before the injuries. Outside of the Portland deal, the best option might have been in 1985 with Dallas. Perhaps Sampson for Sam Perkins, Ro Blackman (or Dale Ellis), possibly Derek Harper plus the 8th pick in the draft (used for Detlef Schrempf but could also have been used for Karl Malone or Charles Oakley) and the 16th pick. Portland’s 84 package though would still be better. Oh well, not as if our discussion would make things happen that way.

[jcjParticipant]

BTW, in relation to the Houston SG issue then, they did have Lewis Lloyd. He was not an all-star but a productive player who averaged around 17 ppg in 1984-85 and 1985-86. He did bomb out in the finals against the Celtics and then ended up being banned from the league because of drug use in 1986-87 together with his back-up Mitchell Wiggins, who was a better defender and all around player but not much of a scorer.

Also, the twin towers concept was conceptualized because they felt that Sampson was the one to play PF. They felt that with his agility and ballhandling he could play the 4 spot. During the twin tower years, Olajuwon was officially the center, and Sampson the power forward.

[Mr. BasketballParticipant]

what if lebron went to college. then the magic still got #1 and the clips still #2. would the clips have traded down to #4 for livingston still or no because howard was available.

[maravich44Participant]

I’ve done my share of fantasy on this topic. My comment is a little off track, but since we are discussing it…… Does it bug anyone else when 2 franchise centers wind up on same team? I mean they come along so infrequently and then Hakeem and Ralph or Robinson/Duncan wind up on same team. Yes, I know Duncan is “considered” power foreard, but he was touted as franchise center in college.

[Knicksboy34Participant]

no…I mean yea 2 good Centers on 1 team is tough to beat but the reason those combo are though of to be good is because of the two C have PF skills and post moves (Hakeem and Duncan)

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