This topic contains 66 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar Nbanflguy 11 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #38306
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    llperez

    What do you guys have? Here’s mine at the  moment:

    1-kyrie irving

    2-isaiah thomas

    3-brandon knight

    4-klay thompson

    5-marshon brooks

    6-ricky rubio

    7-kawhi leonard

    8-derrick williams

    9-iman shumpert

    10-kenneth faried

     

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  • #659290
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    Wahoo757
    Participant

    Is this rookie of the year contenders or what? If you’re talking purely about ability and how they’ll project for the rest of their careers then Rubio has to be higher, probably 2.

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  • #659291
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    llperez

    this is strictly top 10 rankings as of today based on their rookie seasons, no potential for the future being taken into consideration at all.

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  • #659292
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    llperez

    and rubio could still be a few spots higher, but he will only play about 2/3rd’s of the season so that drops him a few spots.

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  • #659294
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    bedrock23
    Participant

    Either put Ricky Rubio #2 or don’t put him at all because of his injury. That team is 4-17 without him way more valuable than every other rookie expect Kyrie.

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  • #659297
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    llperez

    i think 2/3rds of games is enough to be ranked. As for being number 2? possibly, i think the wolves falling apart has to do with lots of things on top of his injury not just him. He still is a liability shooting and inconsistent overall.

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  • #659302
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    Hale
    Participant

    Off topic, but Rubio is definitely more important to the Wolves then Love is.

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  • #659304
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    llperez

    WOW^^^^

    not even close.

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  • #659306
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    Wow, look at the records.

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  • #659308
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    w/o Love 1-4, with all four losses to playoff teams.

    w/o Rubio 4-15 with a good amount of bad losses.

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  • #659316
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    dacula18
    Participant

     @Y2G

    I get what you’re saying. I think on most teams Love would be more important, but since the T’Wolves have a plethora of really talented scorers to plug in at PF, they don’t miss his 25 ppg as much. 

    On the other hand, they don’t have another guy that can get them 10 apg, so that is missed a lot more. 

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  • #659311
    AvatarAvatar
    llperez

    sure

    record without love: 1-5(the win was a 2 point home victory over the kings

    record without rubio: 4-15

    keep in mind the recent losing streak also invloves injury to ridnour who was rubios back up as well as 13 out of 19 games being on the road since rubio was injured

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  • #659313
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    Or it’s once Rubio got hurt the team went to crap without him.

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  • #659314
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    llperez

    im counting the game where love was injured in 8 minutes as not having him and i dont see anything significant in the records to suggest rubio is more important so not sure what you are getting atwith that

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  • #659315
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    Wahoo757
    Participant

    I don’t know if that statistic really supports your claim that Rubio is “definitely” more important to the Wolves than Love it is. Can’t we just say they’re both equally important to the T-Wolves success?

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  • #659317
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    llperez

    just watch the two play and decide for yourself who is better and more valuble. IM guessing the majority would agree its love

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  • #659319
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    Hale
    Participant

    I honestly don’t think it’s close. Every loss with Love was to a playoff team and like 7/15 losses without Rubio were against non-playoff teams. Love was the main guy last year and they had the worst record in the NBA. Throw in Rubio and a great coach and they are above .500 for awhile. This team needs Rubio more then Love, because he makes the rest of the crap around them better. This is why I consider MVP consideration for Love a joke. He isn’t even more important then a rookie PG, albeit that rookie is special.

    Edit: I have watched them. Plenty of games. Love is the better player, no doubt about it. But in terms of team importance, it’s Rubio and it is not close. 

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  • #659322
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    llperez

    mvp talk for love is a joke. But so is saying rubio is more important. And we brought the records in like you requested and they do nothing to support rubio as being more important.

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  • #659327
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    Maybe your infatuation with Love is blinding you. You are known to be biased for him, and that’s a fact. I’ll make it simpler for you.

    w/o Love against nonplayoff teams: 1-0

    w/o Rubio against nonplayoff teams: 3-8

    w/o Love against playoff teams: 0-4

    w/o Rubio against playoff teams: 1-7

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  • #659330
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    llperez

    lol, when all else fails throw insults and blame bias. What exactly have i sais that shows bias? I could just as easily claim you are biased against him.

    ill make it simpler for you

    1-5 without love and the win being a 2 point win vs the kings at home. They are 1 possesion away vs a bad team from being winless without love. The record without love does nothing to support rubio this season as being more important and you are the one who brought it up

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  • #659334
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    llperez

    and speaking of bias, this thread has nothing to do with love yet you couldnt hold back from using it to once again crap on him

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  • #659335
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    I didn’t insult you. it’s widely known that Lakers (especially Kobe), and UCLA players are nearly impossible to reason with you. I gave you numbers and you haven’t been able to discredit them at all. You’re just saying they don’t count, well ok cool. Even if you count the game Love played 8 minutes, was that not a playoff team as well?

    I have no need to insult you, but don’t act like you aren’t biased. You still think Kobe is better then LeBron do you not? How can anyone argue with you reasonably on LA or UCLA when you just say that means nothing when I give you numbers? You completely ignored that Love couldn’t win &$#%#&@! without Rubio or Adelman last year as well.

    Edit: lol at saying bias against Love, ask anyone how I feel about Ricky Rubio. I hated him even more coming into the draft then I did Love. So don’t throw that nonsense at me.

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  • #659338
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    llperez

    what numbers did you give me that i have not effectively argued ? You said the records show who is better.

    1 and 5= 17% winning

    4 and 15= 21% winning

    you can break those numbers down all you want but the end result will always be that the numbers do nothing to indicate rubio is more important then love. And thats as simple as it gets.

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  • #659341
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    You’re treating every game as an equal when they’re not. In games they should’ve won, or had the best chance to win in the winning % distinctly favors Rubio.

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  • #659346
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    llperez

    see, you are bringing all kinds of intaninglbeles about how important the games are that are debateble. How hard did the other team play? How many other players were healthy in that game from both teams? How many games were on a back to back etc…. How about the fact the ONLY game the wolves won without love was a game at home vs one of the worst teams in the league by 2 points? If you think rubio is more important, then you have to come at a different angle then what the teams records are without rubio vs without love becasue the numbers do nothing to support either player in that scenario. Are you really arguing that going 1-5 without love shows they are better without him then rubio?

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  • #659349
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    Hale
    Participant

    And the fact that once Rubio arrived the Wolves immediately went from a terrible team to a competitive one nearly over night. Not to mention PG’s are more valuable to teams then PF’s in general.

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  • #659350
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    llperez

    rubio as well as the improvement from love, the arrival of of an estbalished veteran coach, the arrival of solid role players like derrick williams and barea, the emergence of pekovic which has continued without rubio in the lineup. ANd when all is said and done, the team will still stink at the end of the season.

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  • #659356
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    Hale
    Participant

    Barea? The guy who has sucked and been hurt all year? Love improvement is vastly overrated. They were hovering around .500 before Williams or Pekovic made any contributions too.  Rubio and Adelman made the Wolves competitive right away, something Love could not do. Does it make him any lesser of a player? No. But Rubio is more important because he creates for everyone, Love creates for himself (despite being a nice passer).

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  • #659363
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    llperez

    love creates for everyone as well by drawing attention, cleaining the boards that beasley, anthony randolph and derrick williams dont grab.  ANd barea doesnt suck. And love has improved. And you yourself mentioned adelmann helping the team. At the end of the day, as a basketball fan (who knows what im wathcing) the wolves biggest threat to opponents is love and thats easy to see.

    I also find it interesting how the argument about love is always evolving. At first it was love sucks, the wolves are stupid for trading mayo for him, mchale needs to be fired for getting love. indiana basketball said that love in his aboslute prime would be nothing more then 12 and 8 on a good team, BTPH flat out thought he sucked. Then it became, is he an all-star?, does he deserve to be on the usa national team etc…, now it has become is he an mvp candidate. The reality is that love has absolutely squashed all the previous arguments against him and raises the bar yearly for his detractors.

    And i would love to be a gm vs you where we have one season to build a team(not taking into consideration the future) and you pick rubio over love right now.

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  • #659366
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    First of all I’ve admitted when I’ve been wrong about Love. Second of all he shouldn’t be an MVP candidate. Third of all, if Rubio does make his teams better then Love. I don’t see how you don’t see it. He’s a PG like Nash, he elevates his teammates so much with his vision. Love doesn’t do that, he’s a big time scorer and a nice passer but he isn’t making the guys around him better, or at least to the extent of Rubio. I don’t know how you don’t really see that. Nash has done it for years, Rubio is of the same mold, as is Kendall Marshall. Good PG’s are going to almost always be the most important player on the team. When Love goes down, Beasley and Williams can make up for the scoring and lessen the impact. When Rubio goes down, Ridnour isn’t the playmaker Rubio is, he cannot be replaced. As for that last paragraph of nonsense, I know for a fact as a GM I’d be better then you. You don’t seem to value PG’s or not understand their value, and you’re way too high on pure scorers.

    Edit: Don’t take this wrong way or as a sign of me disliking you. You’ve been a great poster for years and I respect you immensely. But I take everything LA related you say with a grain of salt.

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  • #659373
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    llperez

    well the GM issue, i would absoultely love to test myself vs everyone on this site and im glad you are certain for a fact you would be better. Feel as confident as you want but im taking myself over everyone on this site. I dont underappreciate pg’s at all. The only two exemples you can give me of that is me saying bryant over nash and now love over rubio. ANd i stand behind those both 100%. You want to discuss how many times i gave pg’s love now?

    And there is more to making your teammates better then assists and setting them up. Being a shooter who spaces the floor, being a dominant rebounder who gives the team second chances and makes up for lack of rebounding at other positions are very important to allowing your teammates to go about their business and do what they do well. ANyways, i gotta go for now. Be back later. I also repsect you as a poster.

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  • #659397
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    bloodshy
    Participant

    1. The intial rankings are weak.  Rubio (even accounting for time lost due to injury) easily had a bigger impact on the TWolves season than Marshon Brooks, Klay Thompson or Isaiah Thomas (even though they’ve performed well) did for their clubs.

    2. Y2K’s KLove-hate is near absurd.  You appear blinded by something pushing you toward irrational when discussing Love’s value.  (And just for the record, I usually like your posts.)  Love is putting up 26/14.  Those are all-time elite numbers.  If accomplishing that feat alone was not highly impressive, other great players would have done it.  To say "he shouldn’t be an MVP candidate" is plain stupid.  No, he should not WIN the award.  He shouldn’t be in the top 2.  But the "candidates" are always trotted out on a list of around 10 guys.  On such candidate lists of top-10 most deserving players, how can you overlook a guy putting up such ridiculously impossible numbers?

    Your primary anti-Love argument is that the TWolves have performed better w/o Love than w/o Rubio.  And?  When the team had both players, they had a rational belief that they could compete at a playoff level.  When Love was out the TWolves just had to play tough for a few games w/o their star–many teams pick up the slack in those situations for a few games.  When Rubio went down it was different.  The team knew the season was over.  Teams tend to play worse when they know their season is over.  Every rational person knew the TWolves’ season was over when Rubio went down.  That they’ve seemed to lack heart makes sense.

    Would (insert name of HoF leader/winner from history) have picked up the team’s morale and led them to victory?  Maybe.  No one is claiming Love is that guy yet.  But he’s an elite player doing a lot with very little and besides LBJ and KD, it’s hard to think of anyone that’s played better this year.

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  • #659399
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    ProudGrandpa
    Participant

    I’m with llperez on this one.  But this is good.  A nice, healthy argument.

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  • #659401
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    "Love is putting up 26/14. Those are all-time elite numbers."

    Then where are the elite results? Why don’t they win more if he’s all-time elite?

    I can admit when I’m wrong, as I’ve done many times. But please explain to me how he is an MVP candidate? He put up great numbers last year, was he an MVP candidate then? How about when Rubio got hurt? He put up godly numbers, BUT THEY DIDN’T WIN. You can’t be an MVP when your team is more dependant on someone elses success then your own. The Timberwolves are loaded at the four, losing Love would be bad, but losing Rubio makes them nearly the same team they were last year, a team that won 17 games.

    I don’t see how he has a case against LBJ, Durant, healthy Rose, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, D12 and then Westbrook, Kobe and Wade will get some love no matter what. After them then sure he could top 10. But considering the MVP race usually really only consists of 4 legit candidates I don’t see how he’s up there. It doesn’t matter if you can score and rebound a lot if you lose. There is such a thing as empty numbers.

    You act like I don’t think he’s a great player, when I know he is. But on a team stacked at the four, don’t you think it’d be easier to replace him then the only playmaker on the team? I don’t like Ricky Rubio either, but he makes an amazing impact on this Wolves team. Did you know since Rubio got hurt the defense went from above average (shocking really) to one of the worst in the NBA again? Rubio impacts a game in more ways then Love does, therefore he is more important. If Love goes there goes 26 ppg. Well Beasley, Randolph, and Williams could get a nice chunk of that back plus Rubio would just be more aggressive. Losing Rubio’s playmaking is not something that can be made up for.

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  • #659403
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    The main thing that made Rubio so valued to the timberwolves this year was not his passing or his playmaking or vision. It was his defense. Last year the Timberwolves were dead last in the nba in defensive ppg. We gave up 107 ppg. We add Rubio to almost the exact same roster and overnight transformed into a solid defensive team. Before Rubio went down we were giving up about 95 ppg. Since Rubio got hurt we are giving up our 106.2 ppg. Thats a huge difference. Yes Rubio is more important to this year timberwolves mainly because of his defense and our pf depth. We can replace Love’s production with the trio of Williams, Beasley, and Randolph. We can not replace Rubio’s vision, passing, playmaking, defense, and just overall joy of playing basketball. His personality and winning mentality was contagious and brought this team closer together then every before. Love is the better player. Rubio is the more valuable player to this team.

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  • #659418
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    bloodshy
    Participant

    26 points and 14 boards aren’t results by themselves?  Top 3 PER isn’t a result?  Are Ws the only results that count for PoY?  Do we just coronate the top player from the team w/the most wins?  Do we give it to the player who’s value we believe contributes to more wins on his team than any other?–good luck proving your conclusion if this is your argument.  Generally, I disagree w/these common method of selection.  I’m not saying these factors should be completely ignored, but they aren’t the only factors.  Basketball is a team sport, but PoY is an individual award.

    As I stated earlier, there is no argument for Love to be considered ahead of KD or LBJ.  But when you move down  your list to Kobe (who’s been a terrible team player lately and his team is 3-1 w/o him) or Wade (didn’t always lead his team to winning seasons pre-LBJ & Co.), Love arguments gain traction.  Based on his raw production alone, I add Love to the top 5 of my PoY list because I consider it an individual performance award. 

    Love is not a top-5 player in the NBA, but his production this season is certainly top-5.  And yes, he has been unable to carry his terrible team to many wins in his 3rd NBA season.

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  • #659423
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    I never made a specific case for Kobe and Wade, just said that they will get love regardless of how they play due to their rep. It’s his 4th season, but maybe that was typo on your part, either way no big deal.

    "26 points and 14 boards aren’t results by themselves? Top 3 PER isn’t a result? Are Ws the only results that count for PoY? Do we just coronate the top player from the team w/the most wins?"

    Pretty much yes. I’m not saying he hasn’t had a great season. As an individual I can’t even think of the last PF to put up numbers like him. But in terms of helping his team, he has not had anywhere near all-time elite results and I find that hard to argue.

    I’m not sure whether you’re still arguing Love vs. Rubio or just trying to make a case that Love is a good player. If it’s that latter I agree. I’m not nearly as high on him as the rest of the forum, but seeing as how arguably the top three minds on the site dislike him more then I do, I feel like I’ve evaluated him fairly enough. If it’s the former you haven’t really made much of a point. Rubio made the team competitive from day one (lost to OKC by 4 I think) and had them around .500 before Pekovic became a stud and Williams got rolling. He made the one of the better defensive teams in the NBA as well.

    I just think that it’s harder to replace the only playmaker on your team then a star PF who has plenty of quality depth behind him. I mean Randolph has like 22 and 11 right now filling in. Wolves fans have been saying with playing time that he’d be really good and he’d be just one of three guys filling in for Love.

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  • #659433
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    Future_Scout

     awsome argument!!!!!!!!!!!!

    +1 for everyone

     
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  • #659440
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    mgreener_34
    Participant

     No love for Chandler Parsons? The guy starts on a playoff team and is putting up 9 and 5 while playing good defense. 

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  • #659449
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    bloodshy
    Participant

    Sorry if my language was a little too forceful previously.  Your take was more reasonable that I thought and I was a bit harsh.  At the end of the day we agree more than we disagree.  Rubio should be #2 or #3 on this list.  The MVP is really only a race between LBJ and KD.

    I was never really arguing Love vs. Rubio.  To me it’s a wash.  Neither is good enough to make them a playoff team by themselves.  Together they were unlikely to last more than 5-6 games in the playoffs.  I did think it was an unfair comparison though–the mentality of the team w/o Love for a few games when they saw themselves as a playoff team vs. the mentality of the team when they saw their new star out for the season.  IMO if Love had a season ending injury and Rubio had stayed, a similar collapse would have occurred.  But maybe I’m wrong.  Perhaps they could have adjusted better to the loss of Love since they’re deep @ the 4.

    My main objection is the MVP "candidate" thing, which really doesn’t matter I spose since no one besides LBJ/KD are truly in contention.  I just disagreed w/the idea that Love wasn’t even on the list since his team sucks.  I think other potential contenders have similar impossibilities in their arguments for the crown:  Kobe has been highly inefficient, Wade/Westbrook aren’t even the best or most productive players on their teams, etc.  I guess my point is that if there is a list that goes beyond KD/LBJ, Love should be on it because his production has been insane.

    Overall you’ve made some good points and even though they initially rubbed me the wrong way, I may come around to your view after giving it a bit more thought. Night!

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  • #659452
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    ProudGrandpa
    Participant

    Can you say "Old Married Couple"? lol

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  • #659453
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    Haha sometimes in my posts I seem angry when I’m really not. I guess that’s just a bad habit of mine. We really do agree more then disagree. I can agree with everything you just said, and I can see your point about Love. I wasn’t arguing for Westbrook, Wade and Kobe, just saying that the media would give them votes. I suppose I was a bit harsh in my words of Love’s MVP candidacy, but I do not feel that he is a prime candidate, this year at least. Either way I enjoyed the debate with you.

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  • #659455
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    I like llperez as a poster, and I respect hima great deal, but uhh he’s not exactly my type. I am usually more interested in women…

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  • #659458
    AvatarAvatar
    aamir543
    Participant

    I don’t care how good of a floor general a guy is, but the fact of the matter is that a 26 and 13 big man that can shoot threes like a guard and rebound like the greats means more to a team than a rookie who put up 10 and 8 on 35% shooting. I know Yup Yup has probably watched more T-Wolves game than anyone else here, and I am perfectly aware that their freefall began when Rubio went out, but you’re not convincing me htat a rookie Rubio means more to the T-Wolves than a guy that is top 5 in socring and rebounding. No way.

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  • #659460
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    I can assure nbanflguy has watched far more Wolves games then I have. No point in repeating my arguments, as I’ve already said everything I wanted to.

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  • #659466
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    Johnny Chill

    Easier to replace Rubio than it is to replace Love.

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  • #659468
    AvatarAvatar
    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Did you not read anything in the thread?

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  • #659481
    AvatarAvatar
    Johnny Chill

    I know that Kyrie Irving is going to win the ROY and is better than Rubio.

    I know that anyone that thinks Rubio is more important that Love is an idiot.

    Nobody on the Wolves can consistently come close to putting up the numbers Love did.

    Ridnor and Barea can score better than Rubio, and get close to this assist #s.

    Tell me how Love is easier to replace than Rubio, you clown.

    I know that Nbanflguy and Y2G are a couple of shower buddies from the same sorry ass town in minnesota.

     

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  • #659484
    AvatarAvatar
    Hale
    Participant

    Haha wow what a dick.

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  • #659486
    AvatarAvatar
    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Let me ask you something. How many wolves games have you watched?

    Anyone who has watched the games and knows anything about basketball and team chemistry knows that Rubio is more important to the Wolves this year than Love has. Yeah Ridnour and Barea can match the production of Rubio, but they can not match his defense, passing, playmaking, vision, and locker room presence. The wolves were giving up 95 ppg with Rubio. We are giving up 106.2 without him. He made this team go. Love has had a fantastic year and I am a fan of the guy, but with the depth at pf we have we can match his production with Williams, Beasley, and Randolph. Love is the better player, but Rubio is more valuable to us. Ridnour and Barea can match his offensive production, but not his intanigibles.

    O and about that sorry ass town in Minnesota that we are from, It is Eden Prairie, Minnesota and was voted the top place to live in the united states.

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  • #659489
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    Johnny Chill

    I watched the Wolves vs Lakers game, when Rubio hurt his knee. Too bad.

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  • #659490
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Good for you. Did you notice that the wolves almost won that game without Love?

    Rubio went for 15 points, 10 assists, 4 rebs, 2 steals and a block. Dwill started in place of Love and got 22 and 10. Beasley got 15 off the bench. That only proves my point. We can replace Love’s production. Cant replace Rubio’s defense or intangibles.

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  • #659497
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Oh and here is that sorry ass town in Minnesota that we live in: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-6670724.html

    Perhaps it’s the allure of its name.

    But more likely, the 5.1-percent unemployment rate of Eden Prairie, Minn. pushed it to the top of the stack of Money Magazine’s annual list of the 100 "Best Places to Live."

    The jobless rate in this 64,000-strong suburb of Minneapolis is more than four points below the national average. It doesn’t hurt that NFL running back Adrian Peterson lives there, with his team the Minnesota Vikings planting its practice facility and front office in the town. Other major employers are Fortune 500 trucking company C.H. Robinson and hearing-aid maker Starkey Labs.

    "Why is Eden Prairie No. 1 this year? Not only is it family-friendly, it has a dynamite economy too," according the magazine.

    Eden Prairie’s 12.6-percent job growth between 2000 and 2009 is also encouraging, but compare it to the 124.3-percent rate of McKinney, Texas (fifth on the list) and it doesn’t seem so impressive – the town is one of the fastest growing cities in the nation, having ballooned 115 percent since 2000. McKinney’s recent job growth is actually negative, according to bestplaces.net.

    Rounding out the top five are Columbia/Ellicott City, Md., Newton, Mass., and Bellevue, Wash.

    Next time try to know what the f*ck you are talking about so you do not look like an idiot.

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  • #659512
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    Nihochu
    Participant

    I think no doubt Kevin Love is a better player in this league than Ricky Rubio is right now, but in terms of value i have to go Y2G. Only because like he said , if you have other guys that can rebound and score (even though not as well as love) then you can in some way replace the points and rebounds, but the passing and offensive fluidity that Rubio brings to the team is irreplacable and i nobody else on the team can do even adequetly in my opinion … Its like detroit having a lot of scorers , it wouldn’t really hurt them to loose Gordon or Stuckey because they kind of do the same thing , where as if they lost Prince then they wouldn’t have hustle and a veteran and he is more valuable because he is one of the only guys there like that with exception of a few others.

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  • #659556
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    aamir543
    Participant

    I understand the point you guys are making, but intangilbes and finding the open guy and stuff like that-as valusble as they are to a team-does not make up the fact that Rubio shot 35% from the field, and scored 10.5 points off 9.5 attemtps per game. I won’t use the metric stat for offensive rating because it’s obvious it doesn’t take into consideration Rubio’s amazing court vision, but both Love and Rubio’s defensive rating is 104, meaning per every 100 possesions, they give u 104 points. I don’t think it’s pace adjusted, it might, but from the numbers of other guys I’ve seen, that’s pretty good, and if it’s not pace adjusted it’s even better, considering the T-Woves’s rapid up and down pace.

    Nbanflguy himself made a thread about Kevin Love myths, and there I believe he shared a statistic with us that said that that opponenets shoot like 35 percent or somthing on Love in the post. Rubio’s defense is hard to replace, but so is Love’s.

    On the offensive end, I know what Rubio does for other guys, I’ve seen the games, how he penetrates and opends the floor, and his mastery in the fastbreak, and opening up opportunites for others. I understand how valuable that is. I also understand that they started freefalling after he got hurt. I would argue their schedule got tougher(even though they did play NO three times, they played OKC twice, LA once more, Boston, Memephis, a surging Phoenix, Denver twice, and San Antonio, although I will admit that there were some cupcakes there, but these teams were pretty good teams)and one point I want to bring up, is that JJ Barea rarely got high assist numbers in Dallas, but is it a coincidence that he’s had double digit assist number his past three games? I believe the system is catered around a point guard distributing, Not saying Barea can pass liek Rubio or has the court vision that Rubio has, and I know they’re still losing, but you get what I’m trying to say.

    Love is averaging 26 and 13.3. Only two other players have EVER had those numbers. Shaq in 99-00, and Moses twice in the early 80s. That is frickin elite company right there. I know Rubio makes his teamates better, but a rookie Ricky Rubio is not more valuable than a 26 and 13.3 Love. Now when Rubio turns into Jason Kidd or Rondo with some semblance of a jumpshot, or he just gets better which I definatly believe he will, than he would be one of the most valuable guys in the league to a team, but until then, you can’t shoot 35% from the field and still be called mroe valuable than a guy like Love especcially after what he’s done all season.

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  • #659573
    AvatarAvatar
    JoeWolf1

     Here’s Mine

    1. Kyrie Irving

    2. Ricky Rubio

    3. Brandon Knight

    4. Isaiah Thomas

    5. Marshawn Brooks

    6. Kemba Walker

    7. Klay Thompson

    8. Kenneth Faried

    9. Iman Shumpert

    10. Tristian Thompson

    Just missed.  Kwahi Leonard, Markeiff Morris, Chandler Parsons and Derrick Williams

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  • #659613
    AvatarAvatar
    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Fair enough. You make good points, but I am still taking Rubio. Agree to disagree.

    I have seen 90% of Twolves this game and Rubio was the heart and soul of the team. On a team that didnt have the pf depth we have, Love would probably be more valuable, but not on the wolves.

    Here is an article that shows how much Rubio meant to not only the wolves, but the state of Minnesota. It is way too long to post on here, but I will post some parts. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7780080/the-loss-ricky-rubio-minnesota-timberwolves

    Rubio’s Ricky Jay-like passing became a regular on SportsCenter and NBA.com. The team looked like it was having fun — sharing the ball, congratulating each other after big plays. Sports Illustrated wrote a big feature on Rubio. The Minnesota Timberwolves were getting national pub and nobody in the locker room was grumbling about the Spanish rookie getting all the attention — instead, the team seemed to be basking in it.6 Then, in an inadvertent nod to Minnesota’s hockey heritage, when the Wolves beat the world champs in their second week, Ricky found Anthony Tolliver for the dagger 3 on a bounce pass right through Dirk Nowitzki’s five hole. He handled the ball most of the time (his 38 percent assist percentage ranked eighth in the league among point guards at the time of his injury), and in the first month of the season his shot looked better than advertised, but it was his defense that was the biggest difference maker.7 His ability to anticipate on offense translates to the other end of the court — he was among the leaders in steals before he went out. And his length (6-foot-4 with a 6-foot-9 wingspan) and technique allow him to stay off his man an extra step and contest straight up on both jump shots and drives. He made tough fourth-quarter stops against opposing guards like Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups — guys who’ve torched the Wolves in the past. The anti-JaVale McGee, he just looks like he knows what he’s doing out there. But don’t take my word for it: On the Sports Guy’s podcast Larry Bird himself copped to "watching him every night."

    Rubio’s flashy passing never seemed to be in service to himself, only an attempt to help the team using the element of surprise. (David Kahn, Rubio’s no. 1 fan, characterizes it as "efficient flair, not superficial flair.") He seemed like an antidote to the self-centered AAU-ness of not only present-day professional basketball, but to present-day kids, present-day life. As Wolves assistant coach Bill Bayno told me after practice one time, because of video games and iPads and cable TV, "I don’t think as many kids in this era truly love to play the game as they did 20 years ago. But Ricky’s different."

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  • #659615
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Hey Chill, nice of you to come into this thread, call us out, be a bully, and act like an a$$hole, and then just run away and hide when we called you out. Here I found you a shirt that I think would be something you would wear.

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  • #659640
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    M-DYMES
    Participant

    This isn’t about who is better between Love and Rubio; Love is the better player.  That being said, Rubio is probably more valuable to the team as the Wolves have plenty of depth at PF.  They have guys who could step in and play relatively well with Love out.  But Rubio plays the more valuable position and made other players better by giving them open looks.   Ridnour is still a good option (hurt) and Barea can contribute at times, but neither have remotely the level of impact that Rubio does.

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  • #659643
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Exactly Mdymes. Pretty much from reading this thread I have come to the conclusions that Timberwolves fans believe Rubio is more valuable and people who are not wolves fans think it is obvious that Love is more valuable.

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  • #659649
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    llperez

    if love is so replaceable how come they cant win without him? Also if he isnt even the most valuable player on his own team i guess wolves fans have no business discussing him as mvp. I think you guys are overrating rubio a good bit. He is shooting 36% from the field and takes 9 shots to score 10 points. And for all the talk about how he creates for others, the wolves are averaging over 100 ppg in the 20 games he has missed and are a higher scoring team without him. Like you guys said, the wolves have guys who score points, so why is 8 assists so much more imprtant then love who hits shots and grabs 13 boards?

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  • #659652
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    TallmanNYC
    Participant

     Serious crazy debate on Love and Rubio. They are both important. They both have backups as the Wovlves still have Ridnour and Barrea to play the PG, which is at least decent. Williams can obviously handle more minutes at PF if Love were to go down as well. 

    But I seriously have to call out Brandon Knight being ranked third. The guy is not playing well. You are talking about 14 points and 4 assists a game on a lousy 41% shooting percentage. That is nothing. That isn’t a shooting guard, that isn’t a point guard. He will probably get better, but right now it isn’t clear if he can even stick in the league much less be a legit starter and if he is, what position it is going to be. And you guys have him Third! Faired and Leonard need to be a lot higher. The more the Wolves struggle, the more Rubio looks like he should be number two. I’d take Shumpert over Knight right now because of his perimiter defense. 

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  • #659659
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    JoeWolf1

     I’m new to the discussion here, but it was the combo of Love and Rubio that had the team at .500, not one guy or the other.  With just Love or just Rubio the Wolves are a bad team, both of them together made the Wolves repsectable again.

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  • #659662
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    Johnny Chill

    It’s called sleep, idiot. I’m dont thread stalk like you do.

    Obviously I hit a nerve, when I called you 2 out for being shower buddies from the same sorry ass town and having the same catholic priest. But I’m not a internet bully. Your the one that is obsessed with this thread, throwing it off topic and taking things personal. You should take it easy dude.

    Let me ask you this, do you think anyone get on this site takes its personal when you give them a +/- ?

    How many screen names you guys make each? I got the over/under at 3 each.

    Well based on you your thread stalking and littleman complex, you seem like the type that would shoot up a school or mall.

    BTW you look like the guys that Sandusky molested.

     

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  • #659664
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    Well based on you your thread stalking and littleman complex, you seem like the type that would shoot up a school or mall.

    BTW you look like the guys that Sandusky molested.

    Did you really just say that?

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  • #659665
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    Hale
    Participant

    I’d think it’s quite obvious that being a dick got you negged, not us having imaginary accounts. 

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  • #659674
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    Nbanflguy
    Participant

    BTW you look like the guys that Sandusky molested.

    I am pretty sure that no pictures of Sandusky’s victims have been released. So the only way you could think that we look like them is if you were yourself molested by Sandusky or if you were in the room when Sandusky molested them. If you were molested, I am very sorry. It is a shame that it happened, but I guess it explains how you got to be the person you are today. It will take years, but maybe with some therapy and a good support group you will be able to get back to normal. If in fact you were in the room with Sandusky, I hope you are brought to justice and rot in jail with a cellmate named Bubba. He will show you what Sandusky’s victims felt like.

     

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