[highflyer0Participant]

 Jerry West recently said that he isn’t a big fan (paraphrasing here) of this draft because there aren’t immediate impact type of guys.  He got some heat for saying that as many experts are saying this is an unbelievable draft.  However, I understand where he’s coming from.  In the old days, when you had a top 10 pick you could get a 22 year old star who would come in right away and be your best player.  Now, you draft number 1 overall and you get a guy who averages 10 points and 8 boards in his first year.  The players aren’t any less talented but I just think the draft used to have even more value than it does today.  Let’s take a look at some stats from rookie seasons.

1st pick 1985: Patrick Ewing 20 ppg, 9 rbg, 2 bpg 
1st pick 1984: Hakeem Olajuwon 20 ppg, 12 rpg, 3 bpg
1st pick 1994: Glenn Robinson 22 pgg (one of the best years of his career)
3rd pick 1994: Grant Hill 20 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg
3rd pick 1984: Michael Jordan 28 ppg
3rd pick 1993: Penny Hardaway 16 ppg, 7 apg, 5 rpg

 Obviously a few of those guys are just generational talents, but even a guy like Glenn Robinson came in and averaged 22 right away.  Some say Embiid can be Olajuwon.  Well, that’s great, but even if he does become that good, it’s going to be a few years before he gets to the point that Hakeem was at as a rookie.  I think picking at the top of the draft used to be more akin to signing a big free agent whereas now it’s more of a symbol of hope for the future.  It doesn’t make me enjoy the draft any less, but my point is, I understand where Jerry West is coming from.  Andrew Wiggins could become as good as Grant Hill but he’ll most likely average about half of what Grant did as a rookie.  If Michael Jordan had come out as freshman, I doubt he would’ve averaged over 10 a game in his first season.  Just some food for thought.  

 

 

 

[Winning_TimeParticipant]

 Players coming out so undeveloped is a real burden on GMs. Imagine if two years ago Mcadoo went pro and got picked in the lottery. Based on how things went at UNC, it would have been a throwaway pick. I find it unfair to the NBA that they cannot get a clear idea on what player they are getting. Especially since the teams who pick these players with potential often do it because they are so bad and have no current hope on the roster. I know you can control your draft strategy but it’s hard to do so when there is so much left to question

[Winning_TimeParticipant]

 Players coming out so undeveloped is a real burden on GMs. Imagine if two years ago Mcadoo went pro and got picked in the lottery. Based on how things went at UNC, it would have been a throwaway pick. I find it unfair to the NBA that they cannot get a clear idea on what player they are getting. Especially since the teams who pick these players with potential often do it because they are so bad and have no current hope on the roster. I know you can control your draft strategy but it’s hard to do so when there is so much left to question

[BallinmvpParticipant]

One thing all those guys have in common are that they are upperclassmen. I believe that Jerry West thinks that the longer you stay in college then the more nba ready you are. Some cases it can be be proven true and other cases not so much. I think that there is a lot of young guys in this class who aren’t finished products, I think that the leaving early and getting NBA coaching is the best way to enhance your game but that’s my opinion and others like West may feel differently.

[BallinmvpParticipant]

One thing all those guys have in common are that they are upperclassmen. I believe that Jerry West thinks that the longer you stay in college then the more nba ready you are. Some cases it can be be proven true and other cases not so much. I think that there is a lot of young guys in this class who aren’t finished products, I think that the leaving early and getting NBA coaching is the best way to enhance your game but that’s my opinion and others like West may feel differently.

[highflyer0Participant]

I agree with you that NBA coaching helps on some level.  However, I can’t help but think that guys like J.R. Smith, Josh Smith, Andray Blatche, and C.J. Miles could’ve been much better if they went through the college experience and had not gone straight to making millions at 19 years old.  College reveals a lot about character.  It also gives guys time to mature, while the NBA lifestyle really doesn’t (as much).  Andrew Wiggins, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Ennis; these guys are all great kids (at least that’s what has been said about them) and that’s why they were able to continue their success in college.  However, guys with a boatload of talent but subpar maturity (Josh Selby, Donte Greene, Davon Jefferson, Derrick Caracter) don’t do much with their college careers.  Imagine if Marcus Smart’s outburst happened in the NBA rather than in college?  It was obvious he needed that extra year for himself, not only to get better as a player, but to mature as a person.  If that incident happened in the NBA, he could’ve gotten himself into a Ron Artest type of situation and his reputation would have never recovered.

Perhaps Mayo and Beasley would’ve been stars if they had stayed 3 years in school to mature as people.  Maybe not.  But I think the current system, where guys leave after 1 year is detrimental to a lot of players as well as NBA teams.  You want a guy like Demarcus Cousins to "mature"? Let him know he needs to get a part-time job at McDonalds if he wants to make money, and he needs a 2.0 GPA if he wants to play ball.  Don’t surround him with millions of dollars and access to stripclubs and unlimited booze.  Most people aren’t ready to be successful in this world until they’re in their 20’s, no matter how smart they are.  Basketball players aren’t any different.  

[highflyer0Participant]

I agree with you that NBA coaching helps on some level.  However, I can’t help but think that guys like J.R. Smith, Josh Smith, Andray Blatche, and C.J. Miles could’ve been much better if they went through the college experience and had not gone straight to making millions at 19 years old.  College reveals a lot about character.  It also gives guys time to mature, while the NBA lifestyle really doesn’t (as much).  Andrew Wiggins, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Ennis; these guys are all great kids (at least that’s what has been said about them) and that’s why they were able to continue their success in college.  However, guys with a boatload of talent but subpar maturity (Josh Selby, Donte Greene, Davon Jefferson, Derrick Caracter) don’t do much with their college careers.  Imagine if Marcus Smart’s outburst happened in the NBA rather than in college?  It was obvious he needed that extra year for himself, not only to get better as a player, but to mature as a person.  If that incident happened in the NBA, he could’ve gotten himself into a Ron Artest type of situation and his reputation would have never recovered.

Perhaps Mayo and Beasley would’ve been stars if they had stayed 3 years in school to mature as people.  Maybe not.  But I think the current system, where guys leave after 1 year is detrimental to a lot of players as well as NBA teams.  You want a guy like Demarcus Cousins to "mature"? Let him know he needs to get a part-time job at McDonalds if he wants to make money, and he needs a 2.0 GPA if he wants to play ball.  Don’t surround him with millions of dollars and access to stripclubs and unlimited booze.  Most people aren’t ready to be successful in this world until they’re in their 20’s, no matter how smart they are.  Basketball players aren’t any different.  

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Some other guys that’s true for include

David Robinson 24.3 PPG, 12 RPG, 3.9 BPG, 1.7 SPG
Shaquille O’Neal 23.4 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 3.5 BPG
Alonzo Mourning 21 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 3.5 BPG
Tim Duncan 21.1 PPG, 11.9 RPG, 2.5 BPG
Allen Iverson 23.5 PPG, 7.5 APG, 2.1 SPG
Elton Brand 20.1 PPG, 10 RPG

However it’s important to keep in mind that talents like Lebron, Carmelo, Durant, Rose, Tyreke Evans, Kyrie Irving and even to an extent Dwight (who came in and put up 12 PPG and 10 RPG at a time when few other centers could do that) were capable of coming into the league after 1 year of college or less and play at near an All-Star level.

This draft class has gotten a lot of hype and for West to say that these guys aren’t immediate impact kind of players is a hard dose of reality. Many, including myself, were expecting transcendent talents out of guys like Wiggins, Parker and Randle and those kind of talents should be able to make an immediate impact regardless of age.

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Some other guys that’s true for include

David Robinson 24.3 PPG, 12 RPG, 3.9 BPG, 1.7 SPG
Shaquille O’Neal 23.4 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 3.5 BPG
Alonzo Mourning 21 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 3.5 BPG
Tim Duncan 21.1 PPG, 11.9 RPG, 2.5 BPG
Allen Iverson 23.5 PPG, 7.5 APG, 2.1 SPG
Elton Brand 20.1 PPG, 10 RPG

However it’s important to keep in mind that talents like Lebron, Carmelo, Durant, Rose, Tyreke Evans, Kyrie Irving and even to an extent Dwight (who came in and put up 12 PPG and 10 RPG at a time when few other centers could do that) were capable of coming into the league after 1 year of college or less and play at near an All-Star level.

This draft class has gotten a lot of hype and for West to say that these guys aren’t immediate impact kind of players is a hard dose of reality. Many, including myself, were expecting transcendent talents out of guys like Wiggins, Parker and Randle and those kind of talents should be able to make an immediate impact regardless of age.

[220Participant]

 Amare Stoudemire is another example of a guy who was pretty good straight out of high school. Stoudemire averaged 13.5 ppg 8.8 rpg 1.1 bpg 1.0 apg .8 spg. By his second season he averaged over 20.6 ppg 9 rpg 1.4 apg 1.6 bpg 1.2 spg

[220Participant]

 Amare Stoudemire is another example of a guy who was pretty good straight out of high school. Stoudemire averaged 13.5 ppg 8.8 rpg 1.1 bpg 1.0 apg .8 spg. By his second season he averaged over 20.6 ppg 9 rpg 1.4 apg 1.6 bpg 1.2 spg

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 This is a guy who one of his most significant moves was trading for a 17 year old non immediate impact making Kobe Bryant.  He is posturing just like all of these GMS and front office guys are doing.  I don’t know why since they don’t have a 1st rounder but he is genius, he understands what the NBA is now a days.

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 This is a guy who one of his most significant moves was trading for a 17 year old non immediate impact making Kobe Bryant.  He is posturing just like all of these GMS and front office guys are doing.  I don’t know why since they don’t have a 1st rounder but he is genius, he understands what the NBA is now a days.

[BallinmvpParticipant]

 We won’t know until they lace them up. I will say one thing though most guys in this class are not physically mature yet and need to hit the weight room and work on their bodies for the grind of the nba. A lot of upperclassmen players in years past who came into the league and played well understand the importance of filling out your body and taking care of it.

[BallinmvpParticipant]

 We won’t know until they lace them up. I will say one thing though most guys in this class are not physically mature yet and need to hit the weight room and work on their bodies for the grind of the nba. A lot of upperclassmen players in years past who came into the league and played well understand the importance of filling out your body and taking care of it.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 If Jerry West is right then Doug McDermott should average 19 and 6 and be next year’s ROY.

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 If Jerry West is right then Doug McDermott should average 19 and 6 and be next year’s ROY.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Technically within this 2014 Draft class the most NBA ready guy is P.J. Hairston off the strength of his D-League tenure, but from his previous scare he may be hindered in the draft process although it only takes 1 team to see past it.

[Lotto StudParticipant]

 Technically within this 2014 Draft class the most NBA ready guy is P.J. Hairston off the strength of his D-League tenure, but from his previous scare he may be hindered in the draft process although it only takes 1 team to see past it.

[ConezdParticipant]

 Jerry West is obviously old scholl. He also, very obviously, has been an exceptional judge of talent and finding guys who can play. With that being said though, I am one of those people who thinks an age or college level experience limit is ridiculous. When you are 18, you are an adult and allowed to go to work. Sometimes these 18 year olds can come to the nba and contribute. Most of the time they can’t but I don’t think not letting them make that choice is fair. I’m of the belief that if your team and it’s very elaborate scouting and coaching and front office staff who gets paid millions on top of millions of dollars to, you know, decide whether a guy can play or not, then how is it the kids fault or problem? The kid wanted to play pro ball and make millions and everyone told him he could, so why shouldn’t he? If a team drafts him #1 and he stinks, that says something about the franchise. No one is forcing any team to draft a Wiggins or Embiid or any 18 year old prospect who’s the next big thing. If these teams at the top of the lottery want to pick a 4 year college player, they still can. These age limits to me are a way for the nba to take less fault and responsibility for failed careers. Hire a coach and gym who can’t actually do their jobs pretty well and keep them around longer than a year and a half. Nba personnel need to get better at their jobs. Not keep grown men from having them. 

[ConezdParticipant]

 Jerry West is obviously old scholl. He also, very obviously, has been an exceptional judge of talent and finding guys who can play. With that being said though, I am one of those people who thinks an age or college level experience limit is ridiculous. When you are 18, you are an adult and allowed to go to work. Sometimes these 18 year olds can come to the nba and contribute. Most of the time they can’t but I don’t think not letting them make that choice is fair. I’m of the belief that if your team and it’s very elaborate scouting and coaching and front office staff who gets paid millions on top of millions of dollars to, you know, decide whether a guy can play or not, then how is it the kids fault or problem? The kid wanted to play pro ball and make millions and everyone told him he could, so why shouldn’t he? If a team drafts him #1 and he stinks, that says something about the franchise. No one is forcing any team to draft a Wiggins or Embiid or any 18 year old prospect who’s the next big thing. If these teams at the top of the lottery want to pick a 4 year college player, they still can. These age limits to me are a way for the nba to take less fault and responsibility for failed careers. Hire a coach and gym who can’t actually do their jobs pretty well and keep them around longer than a year and a half. Nba personnel need to get better at their jobs. Not keep grown men from having them. 

[highflyer0Participant]

 I completely agree that there should not be an age limit.  I’m just saying that skipping college is usually a poor idea.  People need to be free to make mistakes though.  They are, as you say, adults.

[highflyer0Participant]

 I completely agree that there should not be an age limit.  I’m just saying that skipping college is usually a poor idea.  People need to be free to make mistakes though.  They are, as you say, adults.

[vulture711Participant]

 There are guys in this draft who will have an immediate impact – period.  There are also an inordinate number of guys who come into the league and really don’t know how to play.  Its amazing how many guys simply can’t shoot – at all, and have to have an NBA coach break their shot down and start over.  That should have been done in high school or earlier.  The thing is when I watch high school tape of Wiggins or Randle, say, they are playing against kids nowhere near heir size or athelticism.  They don’t develop some of those skills – becaus they don’t need to at that level – they can just drive and jump over and bully guys out of the way.  I have to laugh at tape of Wiggins dribbling up and around a couple white kids who must be 5-10.  I could do that to the 10 year olds in my neighborhood all day.  I’d average 40-25-10 blocks

[vulture711Participant]

 There are guys in this draft who will have an immediate impact – period.  There are also an inordinate number of guys who come into the league and really don’t know how to play.  Its amazing how many guys simply can’t shoot – at all, and have to have an NBA coach break their shot down and start over.  That should have been done in high school or earlier.  The thing is when I watch high school tape of Wiggins or Randle, say, they are playing against kids nowhere near heir size or athelticism.  They don’t develop some of those skills – becaus they don’t need to at that level – they can just drive and jump over and bully guys out of the way.  I have to laugh at tape of Wiggins dribbling up and around a couple white kids who must be 5-10.  I could do that to the 10 year olds in my neighborhood all day.  I’d average 40-25-10 blocks

[Author]

Posts