[Daprob89Participant]

 Starters

G Chris Paul

G Kobe Bryant

F Kevin Durant 

F Paul Gasol

C  *Al Jefferson/Andrew Bynum

_______________________________________

F Carmelo Anthony 

G Steve Nash

F Dirk Nowitzki 

G Deron Williams 

G Monta Ellis 

F Kevin Love

F Blake Griffin/ G Russell Westbrook

 

(* )Injured Yao Ming

[the lake show]

Westbrook i son before Love or Blake. He’s playing well and his play helps leads to wins

[the lake show]

Westbrook i son before Love or Blake. He’s playing well and his play helps leads to wins

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

29-4! 29-4!

And you don’t think they have an All-Star? So the teams with 9-25, 10-24, and 13-20 records have worthy All-Stars, but the team on pace to win 72 freaking games has none. WINNING MATTERS! The league is littered with guys who can put up numbers on lousy losing teams, that isn’t an accomplishment. On pace for 72 wins is an accomplishment. Please people, quit being so NBA ignorant.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

29-4! 29-4!

And you don’t think they have an All-Star? So the teams with 9-25, 10-24, and 13-20 records have worthy All-Stars, but the team on pace to win 72 freaking games has none. WINNING MATTERS! The league is littered with guys who can put up numbers on lousy losing teams, that isn’t an accomplishment. On pace for 72 wins is an accomplishment. Please people, quit being so NBA ignorant.

[Yan111Participant]

It’s the All-Stars Game, a show for freaking player, that’s why it’s usual to watch guys like Love or Griffin before Ginobili. I remember a All-Stars game with Pistons entire team: Wallace, Wallace, Billups & Hamilton, it’s was so sad because this guys played D in a show for dunk, alley oop and killing assist. So, in ASG: Griffin, Gay and co :::::> Duncan, Ginobili.

[Yan111Participant]

It’s the All-Stars Game, a show for freaking player, that’s why it’s usual to watch guys like Love or Griffin before Ginobili. I remember a All-Stars game with Pistons entire team: Wallace, Wallace, Billups & Hamilton, it’s was so sad because this guys played D in a show for dunk, alley oop and killing assist. So, in ASG: Griffin, Gay and co :::::> Duncan, Ginobili.

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

PAU gasol shouldnt make it.. neither should big al or bynum..

[esperanzafleet69Participant]

PAU gasol shouldnt make it.. neither should big al or bynum..

[RodBeamteamParticipant]

 the spurs have one of the best if not the best record in the league nd you have no one from there team on here (smh) manu,duncan,parker….

[RodBeamteamParticipant]

 the spurs have one of the best if not the best record in the league nd you have no one from there team on here (smh) manu,duncan,parker….

[RodBeamteamParticipant]

 the spurs have one of the best if not the best record in the league nd you have no one from there team on here (smh) manu,duncan,parker….

[RodBeamteamParticipant]

 the spurs have one of the best if not the best record in the league nd you have no one from there team on here (smh) manu,duncan,parker….

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"the spurs have one of the best if not the best record in the league nd you have no one from there team on here (smh) manu,duncan,parker…."

On pace for 72. Any other team in the league and ESPN would be organizing a parade and ordering virgins to be sacrificed for the orgy of overexposure they were planning.

Oh its just the Spurs, four titles in the past eleven years and approaching the summit of ’96 Jordan Bulls greatness. Nothing happening here, move along.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"the spurs have one of the best if not the best record in the league nd you have no one from there team on here (smh) manu,duncan,parker…."

On pace for 72. Any other team in the league and ESPN would be organizing a parade and ordering virgins to be sacrificed for the orgy of overexposure they were planning.

Oh its just the Spurs, four titles in the past eleven years and approaching the summit of ’96 Jordan Bulls greatness. Nothing happening here, move along.

[Daprob89Participant]

 Whose going to be the starting center then if not Al or Bynum??? Spurs won’t win 72 games their one injury away from going on a losing streak. Although agree Manu should make all-star team that’s my mistake i look over him, but i don’t see any other spurs players making it.

 

[Daprob89Participant]

 Whose going to be the starting center then if not Al or Bynum??? Spurs won’t win 72 games their one injury away from going on a losing streak. Although agree Manu should make all-star team that’s my mistake i look over him, but i don’t see any other spurs players making it.

 

[the lake show]

Manu and Parker should make it

Gasol is putting up 19ppg and 11reb on a top 4 team in the west so why exactly shouldn’t he make the AllStar team?

[the lake show]

Manu and Parker should make it

Gasol is putting up 19ppg and 11reb on a top 4 team in the west so why exactly shouldn’t he make the AllStar team?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Spurs won’t win 72 games their one injury away from going on a losing streak."

Every great team is an injury from not being great. It doesn’t mean people should fail to appreciate the greatness on display.

And what makes it maddening, people want to overlook them for the guys on the dregs of the league.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Spurs won’t win 72 games their one injury away from going on a losing streak."

Every great team is an injury from not being great. It doesn’t mean people should fail to appreciate the greatness on display.

And what makes it maddening, people want to overlook them for the guys on the dregs of the league.

[the lake show]

Parker over nash obviously. Similar numbers while one guy is help leading his team to the best record int he NBA while the other is on a losing team

[the lake show]

Parker over nash obviously. Similar numbers while one guy is help leading his team to the best record int he NBA while the other is on a losing team

[Daprob89Participant]

 And why shouldn’t Pau make it? He’s averaging just under 19 points,11 rebounds,4 assists and 2 blks

[Daprob89Participant]

 And why shouldn’t Pau make it? He’s averaging just under 19 points,11 rebounds,4 assists and 2 blks

[the lake show]

I’m not a spurs fan never have been but i give Credit where its due and they should have two locks for the AllStar team. Manu and Parker. Bynum will be on the team if they go by votes since yao is hurt but if they pick then I have to go with  Odom.

Ellis

Blake

Love are the last player i’d look to add because there teams are not winning. You have to look at

Aldridge-For those who hate on him about his soft game he has not only been banging down low and puttin git on players heads and hitting his usual mid-range game

Odom

Millsap

[the lake show]

I’m not a spurs fan never have been but i give Credit where its due and they should have two locks for the AllStar team. Manu and Parker. Bynum will be on the team if they go by votes since yao is hurt but if they pick then I have to go with  Odom.

Ellis

Blake

Love are the last player i’d look to add because there teams are not winning. You have to look at

Aldridge-For those who hate on him about his soft game he has not only been banging down low and puttin git on players heads and hitting his usual mid-range game

Odom

Millsap

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The All-Star weekend is a showcase for the league to display its best. The Spurs are unquestionably part of the best. The Clippers, Timberwolves, and Warriors are the worst. MLB shouldn’t highlight the Pittsburgh Pirates and the NFL shouldn’t highlight the Bills. They make the product look bad, and frankly the EPL does it right when relegating their garbage teams to a lower division.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The All-Star weekend is a showcase for the league to display its best. The Spurs are unquestionably part of the best. The Clippers, Timberwolves, and Warriors are the worst. MLB shouldn’t highlight the Pittsburgh Pirates and the NFL shouldn’t highlight the Bills. They make the product look bad, and frankly the EPL does it right when relegating their garbage teams to a lower division.

[the lake show]

If it was just for show then more guys on losing teams would make it. Its more for those who not only play well but help there team get W’s

[the lake show]

If it was just for show then more guys on losing teams would make it. Its more for those who not only play well but help there team get W’s

[theEDGEParticipant]

My west team would be like this:

G-Chris Paul(Hornets)

G-Kobe Bryant(Lakers)

F-Kevin Durant(Thunder)

F-Carmelo Anthony(Nuggets)

C-Blake Griffin(Clippers) (replaces Yao Ming)

Reserves:

F/C-Kevin Love(Timberwolves)

G-Monta Ellis(Warriors)

F/C-Dirk Nowitzki(Mavericks)

G-Russell Westbrook(Thunder)

G-Deron Williams(Jazz)

G-Manu Ginobili(Spurs)

And the 12th spot could be for any of these players:

Tim Duncan(Spurs), Tony Parker(Spurs), David Lee(Warriors), Al Jefferson(Jazz), Michael Beasley(Timberwolves), Eric Gordon(Clippers), Pau Gasol(Lakers) or Steve Nash(Suns).

[theEDGEParticipant]

My west team would be like this:

G-Chris Paul(Hornets)

G-Kobe Bryant(Lakers)

F-Kevin Durant(Thunder)

F-Carmelo Anthony(Nuggets)

C-Blake Griffin(Clippers) (replaces Yao Ming)

Reserves:

F/C-Kevin Love(Timberwolves)

G-Monta Ellis(Warriors)

F/C-Dirk Nowitzki(Mavericks)

G-Russell Westbrook(Thunder)

G-Deron Williams(Jazz)

G-Manu Ginobili(Spurs)

And the 12th spot could be for any of these players:

Tim Duncan(Spurs), Tony Parker(Spurs), David Lee(Warriors), Al Jefferson(Jazz), Michael Beasley(Timberwolves), Eric Gordon(Clippers), Pau Gasol(Lakers) or Steve Nash(Suns).

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

I heard some caller on a Sports Talk Show..Ask this question, ”’do you think guys like Lamar Odom,Paul Millsaps and Raymond Felton should be on the all star team,just becuz they’re teams have good records? Over guys like Blake or Kevin Love who are having better seasons?

 

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

I heard some caller on a Sports Talk Show..Ask this question, ”’do you think guys like Lamar Odom,Paul Millsaps and Raymond Felton should be on the all star team,just becuz they’re teams have good records? Over guys like Blake or Kevin Love who are having better seasons?

 

[the lake show]

Thats the thing, We dont know what a guy putting up numbers on a bad team will do if he was on a good team. We can just speculate. What we do know is what gys are doing that leads to wins for there team and they should be rewarded for doing thta. You can make the arguement that these guys could put up even better numbers then they are doing if they were on losing teams

[the lake show]

Thats the thing, We dont know what a guy putting up numbers on a bad team will do if he was on a good team. We can just speculate. What we do know is what gys are doing that leads to wins for there team and they should be rewarded for doing thta. You can make the arguement that these guys could put up even better numbers then they are doing if they were on losing teams

[Daprob89Participant]

 72 games???? 

We do this every year, 2 years ago when the Celtics were 29-5 we did the same thing when will people learn that record is almost on untouchable like Wilt’s 100 point game

Blake Griffin could put up 20 and 10 on a good team since you so much into following greatness you should acknowledge what’s this guy is doing 21 straight double-doubles as rookie. Averaging 24pts,14rebs and 4ast on close to 60% shooting over the month of Dec. 

[Daprob89Participant]

 72 games???? 

We do this every year, 2 years ago when the Celtics were 29-5 we did the same thing when will people learn that record is almost on untouchable like Wilt’s 100 point game

Blake Griffin could put up 20 and 10 on a good team since you so much into following greatness you should acknowledge what’s this guy is doing 21 straight double-doubles as rookie. Averaging 24pts,14rebs and 4ast on close to 60% shooting over the month of Dec. 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Blake Griffin could put up 20 and 10 on a good team since you so much into following greatness you should acknowledge what’s this guy is doing 21 straight double-doubles as rookie. Averaging 24pts,14rebs and 4ast on close to 60% shooting over the month of Dec."

I have never denied Griffin is having a great rookie season, but the funny thing about the truly great players who lead teams to titles (Jordan, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, etc) we don’t see them play on 10-24 teams. This isn’t a reward for the best rookie in the game, it is the standard of being among the greats in the league. He shared the floor with Millsap and Jefferson the other night, and he wasn’t the best big man out there. A good case based off how he got worked in the 4th is that he was the third best big man at this point in that group. Why should I respect numbers absent of results when the actual game tells me that they aren’t indicative of actual value?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Blake Griffin could put up 20 and 10 on a good team since you so much into following greatness you should acknowledge what’s this guy is doing 21 straight double-doubles as rookie. Averaging 24pts,14rebs and 4ast on close to 60% shooting over the month of Dec."

I have never denied Griffin is having a great rookie season, but the funny thing about the truly great players who lead teams to titles (Jordan, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, etc) we don’t see them play on 10-24 teams. This isn’t a reward for the best rookie in the game, it is the standard of being among the greats in the league. He shared the floor with Millsap and Jefferson the other night, and he wasn’t the best big man out there. A good case based off how he got worked in the 4th is that he was the third best big man at this point in that group. Why should I respect numbers absent of results when the actual game tells me that they aren’t indicative of actual value?

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,this fools r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,this fools r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,this fools r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,this fools r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,this fools r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,this fools r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,they r just ignorant…

[arman]

 @ bothteamplayedhard i agree with everything you said,they r just ignorant…

[Jlv2010]

and Love shouldn’t make it because the Twolves suck.

[Jlv2010]

and Love shouldn’t make it because the Twolves suck.

[the lake show]

Twolves and Clippers suck

[the lake show]

Twolves and Clippers suck

[RickyRubio9Participant]

 Dirk misses 3 games and all of a sudden he isn’t starting? Unless you’re going by the voting; he’s playing better than ‘Melo and has played more games than Melo I believe. 

Manu definitely should make it and I’m sorry to say, but Nash doesn’t deserve it this year. 

Plus there’s no way Love & Griffin both make it; sad to say, but coaches are going to look at the records..
Maybe Griffin.

[RickyRubio9Participant]

 Dirk misses 3 games and all of a sudden he isn’t starting? Unless you’re going by the voting; he’s playing better than ‘Melo and has played more games than Melo I believe. 

Manu definitely should make it and I’m sorry to say, but Nash doesn’t deserve it this year. 

Plus there’s no way Love & Griffin both make it; sad to say, but coaches are going to look at the records..
Maybe Griffin.

[thunderbear82Participant]

pg : Deron Williams (Jazz)

sg : Kobe Bryant (Lakers)

sf : Kevin Durant (Thunder)

pf : Dirk Nowitski (Mavs)

c : Tim Duncan (Spurs)

Backups : Chris Paul (Hornets), Russell Westbrook (Thunder), Manu Ginobili (Spurs), Carmelo Anthony (Nuggets), Pau Gasol (Lakers), Kevin Love (Timberwolves), Blake Griffin (Clippers)

[thunderbear82Participant]

pg : Deron Williams (Jazz)

sg : Kobe Bryant (Lakers)

sf : Kevin Durant (Thunder)

pf : Dirk Nowitski (Mavs)

c : Tim Duncan (Spurs)

Backups : Chris Paul (Hornets), Russell Westbrook (Thunder), Manu Ginobili (Spurs), Carmelo Anthony (Nuggets), Pau Gasol (Lakers), Kevin Love (Timberwolves), Blake Griffin (Clippers)

[the lake show]

I know the Spurs are the best team right now but Duncan has not been playing like a AllStar. And Lamarcus gets in before Blake or Love because he has been leading the Blazers to wins and a winning record. Then you replace the who is left between love and Blake with Millsap or Odom. Duncan is replaced with Jefferson

[the lake show]

I know the Spurs are the best team right now but Duncan has not been playing like a AllStar. And Lamarcus gets in before Blake or Love because he has been leading the Blazers to wins and a winning record. Then you replace the who is left between love and Blake with Millsap or Odom. Duncan is replaced with Jefferson

[the lake show]

so

Dwill

Kobe

Durant

Dirk

Gasol

Cp3,Westbrook,Melo,Lamarcus,Manu,Jefferson,Odom,Millsap,Parker

[the lake show]

so

Dwill

Kobe

Durant

Dirk

Gasol

Cp3,Westbrook,Melo,Lamarcus,Manu,Jefferson,Odom,Millsap,Parker

[NYCrealdealParticipant]

“The All-Star weekend is a showcase for the league to display its best. The Spurs are unquestionably part of the best. The Clippers, Timberwolves, and Warriors are the worst. MLB shouldn’t highlight the Pittsburgh Pirates and the NFL shouldn’t highlight the Bills. They make the product look bad, and frankly the EPL does it right when relegating their garbage teams to a lower division. ”

we are not talking about teams. this is about the best players. how is sending in blake griffen to the ASG going to make the product look bad. its ganna make it a hella more fun to watch than if timmy made it. allstar game was fun too watch wen tmac and vince were throwing it off he backboard and slamming it down griffen will bring excitment to the game like no other big in the west. so your point about the product alue decreasing is stupid. and well since u brought baseball into this. strasberg is on the nationals and until he got hurt everyone wanted to see him pitch did the product look bad cuz hes on the nats f no a great athlete is a great athlete.

[NYCrealdealParticipant]

“The All-Star weekend is a showcase for the league to display its best. The Spurs are unquestionably part of the best. The Clippers, Timberwolves, and Warriors are the worst. MLB shouldn’t highlight the Pittsburgh Pirates and the NFL shouldn’t highlight the Bills. They make the product look bad, and frankly the EPL does it right when relegating their garbage teams to a lower division. ”

we are not talking about teams. this is about the best players. how is sending in blake griffen to the ASG going to make the product look bad. its ganna make it a hella more fun to watch than if timmy made it. allstar game was fun too watch wen tmac and vince were throwing it off he backboard and slamming it down griffen will bring excitment to the game like no other big in the west. so your point about the product alue decreasing is stupid. and well since u brought baseball into this. strasberg is on the nationals and until he got hurt everyone wanted to see him pitch did the product look bad cuz hes on the nats f no a great athlete is a great athlete.

[the lake show]

Can’t put Blake over someone who is producing near or at the same level yet his play leads to wins. The thing that helps the NBA’s decision is that they can just put him int he rookie vs Soph game

[the lake show]

Can’t put Blake over someone who is producing near or at the same level yet his play leads to wins. The thing that helps the NBA’s decision is that they can just put him int he rookie vs Soph game

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"we are not talking about teams. this is about the best players. how is sending in blake griffen to the ASG going to make the product look bad. its ganna make it a hella more fun to watch than if timmy made it. allstar game was fun too watch wen tmac and vince were throwing it off he backboard and slamming it down griffen will bring excitment to the game like no other big in the west. so your point about the product alue decreasing is stupid. and well since u brought baseball into this. strasberg is on the nationals and until he got hurt everyone wanted to see him pitch did the product look bad cuz hes on the nats f no a great athlete is a great athlete."

Stephen Strasburg also led a team that lost 93 games to wins in two-thirds of the games he played in. His excellence as a pitcher had a direct impact on the Nationals winning games in which he was able to contribute. Blake Griffin is a ton of sizzle and has the potential to be an All-Star, but isn’t there. Youtubing opponents doesn’t make him better than a guy like Millsap who can work him over to turn a close game, and rewarding style over substance isn’t what is in the best interest of the NBA.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"we are not talking about teams. this is about the best players. how is sending in blake griffen to the ASG going to make the product look bad. its ganna make it a hella more fun to watch than if timmy made it. allstar game was fun too watch wen tmac and vince were throwing it off he backboard and slamming it down griffen will bring excitment to the game like no other big in the west. so your point about the product alue decreasing is stupid. and well since u brought baseball into this. strasberg is on the nationals and until he got hurt everyone wanted to see him pitch did the product look bad cuz hes on the nats f no a great athlete is a great athlete."

Stephen Strasburg also led a team that lost 93 games to wins in two-thirds of the games he played in. His excellence as a pitcher had a direct impact on the Nationals winning games in which he was able to contribute. Blake Griffin is a ton of sizzle and has the potential to be an All-Star, but isn’t there. Youtubing opponents doesn’t make him better than a guy like Millsap who can work him over to turn a close game, and rewarding style over substance isn’t what is in the best interest of the NBA.

[Spurs2020Participant]

 btph is right… agree with everything your saying… i cant even come close to understanding how people think losing teams should have all-stars…. why should blake griffin be an all-star? Melo and Lebron weren’t even all stars their rookie year…

also, i can pretty much gurentee the spurs will get 2-3 all-stars… manu is a lock, and so is duncan… remember the coaches vote for reserves, not dunk crazed fans… and the coaches are voting for spurs 

 

"Carlisle and Brooks both virtually guaranteed that Duncan would make another All-Star team next month, and since the coaches decide the reserves, it’s a pretty safe bet No. 21 joins his peers in Los Angeles."

nba.com

[Spurs2020Participant]

 btph is right… agree with everything your saying… i cant even come close to understanding how people think losing teams should have all-stars…. why should blake griffin be an all-star? Melo and Lebron weren’t even all stars their rookie year…

also, i can pretty much gurentee the spurs will get 2-3 all-stars… manu is a lock, and so is duncan… remember the coaches vote for reserves, not dunk crazed fans… and the coaches are voting for spurs 

 

"Carlisle and Brooks both virtually guaranteed that Duncan would make another All-Star team next month, and since the coaches decide the reserves, it’s a pretty safe bet No. 21 joins his peers in Los Angeles."

nba.com

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I also agree whole heartedly with BTPH, his argument to me is very persuasive and should be taken highly into account. Their are some solid players on bad teams, maybe even some deserving to be All-Stars, but better teams tend to, surprisingly, have the best players. I still take Timmy over any PF/C on a losing team in the West, and most on winning teams as well. I am not saying the Spurs will win 72 games, but their record right now is fantastic, and the Celtics in a very similar situation got 3 All-Stars for the person that made the argument concerning their record. While it is not the end all be all, and is a game for the fans, it is also a serious honor for the players and it should go to the best players out there. Situation always plays a part, but give me somebody contributing to a winning situation over someone putting up huge numbers on a team staking L’s. With that being said, here are my current All-Star picks, with injuries possibly taken into account and starters based on likely vote winners.

Western Conference

C Pau Gasol (Selected by commisioner to replace Yao Ming. Yes, he is listed as an F, but I find no one in the west listed at C deserving, and hopefully Stern makes the sensible decision)

F Kevin Durant

F Carmelo Anthony

G Kobe Bryant

G Chris Paul

C Tim Duncan

PF Dirk Nowitzki

SF Rudy Gay (The NBA’s system tends to be rigid, and they will likely not bend here. Rudy makes it by process of elimination, the two best SF’s get voted in. Still, the Grizzlies could more than likely make the play-offs)

SG Manu Ginobili

PG Deron Williams

PG Russell Westbrook

PF LaMarcus Aldridge

Missed the cut: Tony Parker, Monta Ellis, Kevin Love, Lamar Odom, Blake Griffin

This more than likely will not happen, because I presume that Al Jefferson will make the All-Star team as the only "true" Center producing near All-Star level in the West. But, to me, LaMarcus has been killing just about everyone he goes up against, and has improved his game immensely, keeping the Blazers in play-off contention. I am not adamant about him making the team, and would not be upset at all if Tony Parker made the game over him, but the likelihood of two PG’s taking the wildcard spot is very slim. Big guys tend to have the inside edge on All-Star spots as they try to make it as competitive a game as possible. Many a time a Center or PF has made the game over a guard who more than likely was having a better season than said big.

East Picks

C Dwight Howard

F Kevin Garnett

F LeBron James

G Dwyane Wade

G Rajon Rondo

C Amare Stoudemire (Again, we can only hope for common sense)

PF Chris Bosh

SF Paul Pierce

SG Ray Allen

PG Derrick Rose

PF Josh Smith

PG Raymond Felton

Missed the cut: Carlos Boozer, Al Horford, Danny Granger, Stephen Jackson

Yeah, only players from the top 6 teams make it. Deservedly so I believe. Would love to see Smith get his first ASG, but I expect Boozer and Horford may indeed make it over my last two choices. For me, the Hawks do not really deserve three All-Stars, and I feel Smith is more valuable to them at this point than big Al, even though he is playing quite well. Felton is playing very well, even if it is more a product of the system than him being an All-Star PG. Still, this line-up seems good to me. Ray Allen may not be a certified All-Star like in the past, but he is playing well and the only other comp is S-Jax, who has his hands full with a pretty poor Charlotte squad. I tend not to favor players who have missed chunks of the season due to injury, but I think Boozer will more than likely make it, and he is honestly the best player left off of the team. I do feel like a player who has played more games should make the team however, and hope that Smith makes his first ASG.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I also agree whole heartedly with BTPH, his argument to me is very persuasive and should be taken highly into account. Their are some solid players on bad teams, maybe even some deserving to be All-Stars, but better teams tend to, surprisingly, have the best players. I still take Timmy over any PF/C on a losing team in the West, and most on winning teams as well. I am not saying the Spurs will win 72 games, but their record right now is fantastic, and the Celtics in a very similar situation got 3 All-Stars for the person that made the argument concerning their record. While it is not the end all be all, and is a game for the fans, it is also a serious honor for the players and it should go to the best players out there. Situation always plays a part, but give me somebody contributing to a winning situation over someone putting up huge numbers on a team staking L’s. With that being said, here are my current All-Star picks, with injuries possibly taken into account and starters based on likely vote winners.

Western Conference

C Pau Gasol (Selected by commisioner to replace Yao Ming. Yes, he is listed as an F, but I find no one in the west listed at C deserving, and hopefully Stern makes the sensible decision)

F Kevin Durant

F Carmelo Anthony

G Kobe Bryant

G Chris Paul

C Tim Duncan

PF Dirk Nowitzki

SF Rudy Gay (The NBA’s system tends to be rigid, and they will likely not bend here. Rudy makes it by process of elimination, the two best SF’s get voted in. Still, the Grizzlies could more than likely make the play-offs)

SG Manu Ginobili

PG Deron Williams

PG Russell Westbrook

PF LaMarcus Aldridge

Missed the cut: Tony Parker, Monta Ellis, Kevin Love, Lamar Odom, Blake Griffin

This more than likely will not happen, because I presume that Al Jefferson will make the All-Star team as the only "true" Center producing near All-Star level in the West. But, to me, LaMarcus has been killing just about everyone he goes up against, and has improved his game immensely, keeping the Blazers in play-off contention. I am not adamant about him making the team, and would not be upset at all if Tony Parker made the game over him, but the likelihood of two PG’s taking the wildcard spot is very slim. Big guys tend to have the inside edge on All-Star spots as they try to make it as competitive a game as possible. Many a time a Center or PF has made the game over a guard who more than likely was having a better season than said big.

East Picks

C Dwight Howard

F Kevin Garnett

F LeBron James

G Dwyane Wade

G Rajon Rondo

C Amare Stoudemire (Again, we can only hope for common sense)

PF Chris Bosh

SF Paul Pierce

SG Ray Allen

PG Derrick Rose

PF Josh Smith

PG Raymond Felton

Missed the cut: Carlos Boozer, Al Horford, Danny Granger, Stephen Jackson

Yeah, only players from the top 6 teams make it. Deservedly so I believe. Would love to see Smith get his first ASG, but I expect Boozer and Horford may indeed make it over my last two choices. For me, the Hawks do not really deserve three All-Stars, and I feel Smith is more valuable to them at this point than big Al, even though he is playing quite well. Felton is playing very well, even if it is more a product of the system than him being an All-Star PG. Still, this line-up seems good to me. Ray Allen may not be a certified All-Star like in the past, but he is playing well and the only other comp is S-Jax, who has his hands full with a pretty poor Charlotte squad. I tend not to favor players who have missed chunks of the season due to injury, but I think Boozer will more than likely make it, and he is honestly the best player left off of the team. I do feel like a player who has played more games should make the team however, and hope that Smith makes his first ASG.

[the lake show]

The WEst already has two SF in Durant and Melo. Duncan has not played like a Allstar but could possibly get voted in because of rep. Memphis could possibly make the playoffs but so could Houston which would bring in the Debate of Scola making the all star team. Boh teams are under .500 so i  doubt either make it. I do think Tony Parker makes it though. He has been there best or close second best player this year.

 

Boozer is clearly playing bwetter then Josh Smith and Hortford should make it at center because he deserves it

[the lake show]

The WEst already has two SF in Durant and Melo. Duncan has not played like a Allstar but could possibly get voted in because of rep. Memphis could possibly make the playoffs but so could Houston which would bring in the Debate of Scola making the all star team. Boh teams are under .500 so i  doubt either make it. I do think Tony Parker makes it though. He has been there best or close second best player this year.

 

Boozer is clearly playing bwetter then Josh Smith and Hortford should make it at center because he deserves it

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Duncan has not played like a Allstar"

29-4. Just because the Spurs don’t use him when they don’t need him to save him for the playoffs it doesn’t mean he isn’t still elite when out there.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Duncan has not played like a Allstar"

29-4. Just because the Spurs don’t use him when they don’t need him to save him for the playoffs it doesn’t mean he isn’t still elite when out there.

[the lake show]

He still hasn’t played like a Allstar. There are others on his team that have played better then him. I like Duncan as much as the next guy but too many players who are career AllStars end up getting on the team Even when they havn’t played as well as other guys. yeah he contributes to a team with the best record but the wins also have to do with the fact that he has very good teammates around him. Two of which should be AllStars and another who is also balling ( Jefferson).

[the lake show]

He still hasn’t played like a Allstar. There are others on his team that have played better then him. I like Duncan as much as the next guy but too many players who are career AllStars end up getting on the team Even when they havn’t played as well as other guys. yeah he contributes to a team with the best record but the wins also have to do with the fact that he has very good teammates around him. Two of which should be AllStars and another who is also balling ( Jefferson).

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

WHY THE F*CK IS BYNUM ON HERE

[Malik-UniversalParticipant]

WHY THE F*CK IS BYNUM ON HERE

[the lake show]

votes

[the lake show]

votes

[JJeff6Participant]

I think Duncan and Ginoboli should have a spot on here somewhere!! Duncan for Bynum or Al.  Ginoboli for any of the wing players. 

[JJeff6Participant]

I think Duncan and Ginoboli should have a spot on here somewhere!! Duncan for Bynum or Al.  Ginoboli for any of the wing players. 

[the lake show]

Has Duncan out played Al?..i say look at it like this. Look at the team and there record and the players but don’t think about the name on the back of the jersey. If Blair was doing what Duncan is doing would people Say he shoul dbe on the AllStar team? or Splitter?

[the lake show]

Has Duncan out played Al?..i say look at it like this. Look at the team and there record and the players but don’t think about the name on the back of the jersey. If Blair was doing what Duncan is doing would people Say he shoul dbe on the AllStar team? or Splitter?

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

 Dude, you have followed the NBA, presumably for years. Players get voted in on rep all of the time, and deservedly so. When you think of the Spurs record, you think of Manu, you think of Tony, but everyone still equates the Spurs with Tim Duncan. He has built a rep, and while his numbers are down, BTPH’s point of the Spurs fantastic record is obviously lost on you. Al Jefferson is putting up numbers maybe slightly (granted, slightly) higher than Timmy, but Utah is still 10 games or so back of the Spurs! No, what is likely coming next is the same re-hashed argument about Tim Duncan just being a name and saying that DeJuan Blair, George Hill or Richard Jefferson mean more to the Spurs team success (Which, they do not). Add to the fact that almost any team who would want to win this season would rather have a healthy Tim Duncan than Al Jefferson, and we about sum that up.

The two SF things is something I will explain to you. The All-Star game is slated in this format. The fans vote 1 (one) Center, 2 (two) Forwards of any kind and 2 (two guards) of any kind. Than, it usually unfortunately gets rigid. This means, that they usually do not deviate from position according to the next 5 picks, 1 (one) Center, Power Forward, Small Forward, Shooting Guard and Point Guard. The last two picks are wild cards, though more often than not they do not play the same position. I will give you a pass, though I still expect you to argue this with your usual, "If I ruled the NBA…." type mentality :). Dude, there is usually a method to my madness. I appreciate criticism, though usually like it to be constructive. I also would like to see you maybe once, make a team of All-Stars you would select, though I am sure you might be self conscious about being judged. 

I thought you brought up good points about Horford, though I am still on the fence with Boozer making it due to missing that first part of the season. He is playing better than Smith, but in ways Smith is playing better than Horford. It makes it a difficult decision. Not to mention, Atlanta is still a fairly mediocre team, though I was pretty much almost acting under the assumption that Joe Johnson would make the team, which he more than likely will not. Still, as much as I hate penalizing someone for being hurt, it is usually debatable when it comes to the All-Star game. 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

 Dude, you have followed the NBA, presumably for years. Players get voted in on rep all of the time, and deservedly so. When you think of the Spurs record, you think of Manu, you think of Tony, but everyone still equates the Spurs with Tim Duncan. He has built a rep, and while his numbers are down, BTPH’s point of the Spurs fantastic record is obviously lost on you. Al Jefferson is putting up numbers maybe slightly (granted, slightly) higher than Timmy, but Utah is still 10 games or so back of the Spurs! No, what is likely coming next is the same re-hashed argument about Tim Duncan just being a name and saying that DeJuan Blair, George Hill or Richard Jefferson mean more to the Spurs team success (Which, they do not). Add to the fact that almost any team who would want to win this season would rather have a healthy Tim Duncan than Al Jefferson, and we about sum that up.

The two SF things is something I will explain to you. The All-Star game is slated in this format. The fans vote 1 (one) Center, 2 (two) Forwards of any kind and 2 (two guards) of any kind. Than, it usually unfortunately gets rigid. This means, that they usually do not deviate from position according to the next 5 picks, 1 (one) Center, Power Forward, Small Forward, Shooting Guard and Point Guard. The last two picks are wild cards, though more often than not they do not play the same position. I will give you a pass, though I still expect you to argue this with your usual, "If I ruled the NBA…." type mentality :). Dude, there is usually a method to my madness. I appreciate criticism, though usually like it to be constructive. I also would like to see you maybe once, make a team of All-Stars you would select, though I am sure you might be self conscious about being judged. 

I thought you brought up good points about Horford, though I am still on the fence with Boozer making it due to missing that first part of the season. He is playing better than Smith, but in ways Smith is playing better than Horford. It makes it a difficult decision. Not to mention, Atlanta is still a fairly mediocre team, though I was pretty much almost acting under the assumption that Joe Johnson would make the team, which he more than likely will not. Still, as much as I hate penalizing someone for being hurt, it is usually debatable when it comes to the All-Star game. 

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Raise your hand if you think Bynum should make the All Star team over Kevin Love:

Everybody with your hand raised deserved to get shot in the freaccin face!

Construct an intelligent argument on why somebody who is averaging 9 and 6 should make it over somebody who is about to be the first player to average 20 and 15 in like 30 years.

You guys are ridiculous let me be as clear as possible JUST BECAUSE YOUR TEAM IS GREAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE AN ALL STAR.  An All Star is somebody who goes above and beyond what other players do.  Kevin Love has done that.  

Put Tim Duncan on the Wolves and how many games do they win?  I would reckon maybe even less.  Does Tim Duncan average 20 n 15 on the Wolves? Not a chance in hell.  As I am typing this I am also watching the Wolves and Bobcats game and Kevin Love diving all over the place for loose balls and Beasley hitting big shot after big shot now if that don’t define winning basketball what does.  Sure the Wolves are not a good team but they are being lead by two players who are 22 years old.  Name another team in the history of sports that have won a championship with their two best players 22 years old. The Spurs are a great team and most of that is because they have been together for over a decade.  

You guys act like players like Tim Duncan has some magical winning wand and would win anywhere he went.  He is in a great organization and has been since day one.  He is a great power forward and arguably the best Power Forward of All Time but that does not mean he is the same player.

This is an ALL STAR game not the Hall of Fame.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

Raise your hand if you think Bynum should make the All Star team over Kevin Love:

Everybody with your hand raised deserved to get shot in the freaccin face!

Construct an intelligent argument on why somebody who is averaging 9 and 6 should make it over somebody who is about to be the first player to average 20 and 15 in like 30 years.

You guys are ridiculous let me be as clear as possible JUST BECAUSE YOUR TEAM IS GREAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE AN ALL STAR.  An All Star is somebody who goes above and beyond what other players do.  Kevin Love has done that.  

Put Tim Duncan on the Wolves and how many games do they win?  I would reckon maybe even less.  Does Tim Duncan average 20 n 15 on the Wolves? Not a chance in hell.  As I am typing this I am also watching the Wolves and Bobcats game and Kevin Love diving all over the place for loose balls and Beasley hitting big shot after big shot now if that don’t define winning basketball what does.  Sure the Wolves are not a good team but they are being lead by two players who are 22 years old.  Name another team in the history of sports that have won a championship with their two best players 22 years old. The Spurs are a great team and most of that is because they have been together for over a decade.  

You guys act like players like Tim Duncan has some magical winning wand and would win anywhere he went.  He is in a great organization and has been since day one.  He is a great power forward and arguably the best Power Forward of All Time but that does not mean he is the same player.

This is an ALL STAR game not the Hall of Fame.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

But, here it is again, you take a player who is not putting up the numbers or has done the things Tim Duncan has done for years and use it as a comparison to Tim Duncan. I think Kevin Love is putting up incredible numbers, but if the Timberwolves had Tim Duncan instead of Kevin Love, everything in my mind points to them being a better team. Winning is a lot about circumstance, but certain players seem to win more than others. Tim Duncan is one of those players. Let me put it this way, if Kevin Love were on San Antonio instead of Tim Duncan, are they a better team? Is he averaging 20/15? I hope he is shooting better than 45% from the field, but while he may be putting up solid offensive statistics, more than likely averaging the .8 rebounds per game that Timmy is away from averaging the much coveted double double, he is not the same defensive presence at all. Tim Duncan is averaging what he is because up until this point, that is all he has needed to do. Even after their current 2 game losing streak, the Spurs still have the best record in the league by 1 1/2 games. I think the point BTPH is making, that is a good one, are that monster stats seem a lot less impressive when you are losing every game.

I am a huge fan of Kevin Love, plus I think he is putting up monster rebounding numbers, but his offensive consistency works on both sides of the ball. This meaning, that while he is a monster on the boards and is putting up solid scoring numbers, the odds are whoever he is guarding is doing this at an equally alarming and usually more efficient rate. He was recently beasted on by both LaMarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin, not to mention that in his huge games against New York, Amare Stoudemire has also gone crazy. I do not think these are the only examples. Now, if he were even on a middle of the road team, his numbers to me would warrant the argument you made, possibly. But, his team is 20.5 games behind the team of Tim Duncan. The same Tim Duncan who has lead his team to 4 championships and has won 2 MVP’s. Yes, he is not the same player he used to be, but his team keeps winning. This, to me, symbolizes that he is still a better player than most others in the league. He is also classified as a PF, but he is really a Center, a position that Kevin Love does not play and that the West is fairly devoid of.

Putting up numbers is a big part of being considered one of the better players in the league. But another part is winning games, something Kevin Love has yet to do. Tim Duncan on the other hand, has yet to miss the play-offs in his career, and this is pretty much the first season where his being an All-Star has even come into question. The crazy part about it is, his team is looking fantastic and currently has the NBA’s best record. Little known fact is, once you are a perennial All-Star, and your team is winning, unless you are playing less than half the game (Shaq), you will more than likely make the team. Everyone has different credentials for choosing All-Stars, but to me it in large part has to do with trying to pick the best players in the league in general, not just the ones putting up the best numbers. To me, Tim Duncan is still a better player than most in the league, and if he was not than the Spurs would not have a 29-6 record. Even with a healthy Manu and Parker, and some improved depth, like Bumhauer said to Hank Hill, they say to Timmy "yer the got dang glue". In a couple years, he may indeed be headed to the glue factory, but this year he is still an All-Star to me.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

But, here it is again, you take a player who is not putting up the numbers or has done the things Tim Duncan has done for years and use it as a comparison to Tim Duncan. I think Kevin Love is putting up incredible numbers, but if the Timberwolves had Tim Duncan instead of Kevin Love, everything in my mind points to them being a better team. Winning is a lot about circumstance, but certain players seem to win more than others. Tim Duncan is one of those players. Let me put it this way, if Kevin Love were on San Antonio instead of Tim Duncan, are they a better team? Is he averaging 20/15? I hope he is shooting better than 45% from the field, but while he may be putting up solid offensive statistics, more than likely averaging the .8 rebounds per game that Timmy is away from averaging the much coveted double double, he is not the same defensive presence at all. Tim Duncan is averaging what he is because up until this point, that is all he has needed to do. Even after their current 2 game losing streak, the Spurs still have the best record in the league by 1 1/2 games. I think the point BTPH is making, that is a good one, are that monster stats seem a lot less impressive when you are losing every game.

I am a huge fan of Kevin Love, plus I think he is putting up monster rebounding numbers, but his offensive consistency works on both sides of the ball. This meaning, that while he is a monster on the boards and is putting up solid scoring numbers, the odds are whoever he is guarding is doing this at an equally alarming and usually more efficient rate. He was recently beasted on by both LaMarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin, not to mention that in his huge games against New York, Amare Stoudemire has also gone crazy. I do not think these are the only examples. Now, if he were even on a middle of the road team, his numbers to me would warrant the argument you made, possibly. But, his team is 20.5 games behind the team of Tim Duncan. The same Tim Duncan who has lead his team to 4 championships and has won 2 MVP’s. Yes, he is not the same player he used to be, but his team keeps winning. This, to me, symbolizes that he is still a better player than most others in the league. He is also classified as a PF, but he is really a Center, a position that Kevin Love does not play and that the West is fairly devoid of.

Putting up numbers is a big part of being considered one of the better players in the league. But another part is winning games, something Kevin Love has yet to do. Tim Duncan on the other hand, has yet to miss the play-offs in his career, and this is pretty much the first season where his being an All-Star has even come into question. The crazy part about it is, his team is looking fantastic and currently has the NBA’s best record. Little known fact is, once you are a perennial All-Star, and your team is winning, unless you are playing less than half the game (Shaq), you will more than likely make the team. Everyone has different credentials for choosing All-Stars, but to me it in large part has to do with trying to pick the best players in the league in general, not just the ones putting up the best numbers. To me, Tim Duncan is still a better player than most in the league, and if he was not than the Spurs would not have a 29-6 record. Even with a healthy Manu and Parker, and some improved depth, like Bumhauer said to Hank Hill, they say to Timmy "yer the got dang glue". In a couple years, he may indeed be headed to the glue factory, but this year he is still an All-Star to me.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Not a chance in hell. As I am typing this I am also watching the Wolves and Bobcats game and Kevin Love diving all over the place for loose balls and Beasley hitting big shot after big shot now if that don’t define winning basketball what does. Sure the Wolves are not a good team but they are being lead by two players who are 22 years old. Name another team in the history of sports that have won a championship with their two best players 22 years old. The Spurs are a great team and most of that is because they have been together for over a decade."

I’m just curious how a team that lost to a Bobcats team without Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson, and Nazr Mohammed can somehow be worse. HOW CAN ANY COMBINATION OF NBA PLAYERS LOSE TO THE TEAM THE BOBCATS PUT OUT THERE? And you want to praise them, put one of them in the All-Star game? If Love is "diving all over the place" and Michael Beasley is "hitting big shot after big shot" then what does it say about Tyrus Thomas, Eduardo Najera, Dominic McGuire, D.J. Augustin, Matt Carroll, Derrick Brown, Gerald Henderson, and Kwame Brown. Heck, the best player left on the Bobcats – Boris Diaw- was fouled out. That is a brutal combination of players, but they just beat a team led by someone you claim to currently be better than Tim Duncan and Big Shot 9-27 Beas.

"You guys act like players like Tim Duncan has some magical winning wand and would win anywhere he went. He is in a great organization and has been since day one. He is a great power forward and arguably the best Power Forward of All Time but that does not mean he is the same player."

So let’s see, Tim Duncan is on a team with two other former lottery picks (McDyess and Jefferson), four other former first round picks (Parker, Hill, Splitter, and Anderson), three second round picks (Ginobili, Bonner, and Blair), and three undrafted players (Neal, Udoka, and Quinn). Go through Tim Duncan’s career and you’ll see journeymen who never played to that level elsewhere, free agents and draft "finds" because all they have ever had are late picks. It is just a wonderful coincidence that the Spurs became the smartest organization in the NBA when they drafted Tim Duncan. The Minnesota Timberwolves have nine former lottery picks, and two guys not drafted in the top 31. But Love and Beasley have no help. Webster was able to help a 50-win Blazer team, but not Minnesota. Luke Ridnour was arguably the best backup point guard in the league last year on a solid Milwaukee team, but can’t help the Wolves. Clearly, Love and Beasley have no help, just like Love had no help last year despite Al Jefferson clearly showing this year that he can be a bigtime player on a winner.

I have long believed in the idea of NBA tithing. Role players who get big money for having played with a lengend (Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, AI, LeBron, Jordan, Magic etc) part of their contract. It is humorous how when playing with Duncan, Malik Rose looked good. Rasho, Oberto, Avery, Bowen, Devin Brown, Speedy Claxton, Nazr Mohammed, Beno Udrih, etc. all looked good. Even now, Gary Neal, George Hill, and Matt Bonner look good. Antonio McDyess doesn’t look dead. I can easily make the case based off the rosters Tim Duncan has played with, the roster turnover throughout his career being what it has been so that no one else has four rings, and make the claim that he could make Luke Ridnour, Martell Webster, Wes Johnson, and Jonny Flynn look good. I have evidence of what Michael Beasley looks like in a competitive situation, and it involved Yakhouba Diawara, Quentin Richardson, and Udonis Haslem taking minutes. I also know that there is absolutely no precedent for a player losing three out of four games for three years running justifying the inflated numbers from playing for that extreme loser even using the benefit of hindsight.

That is what an All-Star does. LeBron and Wade have turned Arroyo, who entered the year a 31 percent three point shooter, into a 50 percent three point shooter. It is a direct result of playing with LeBron and Wade that Arroyo is shooting at an elite rate. How good did Kobe and Pau make Trevor Ariza look? Are there still people out there claiming that the Lakers were foolish not to keep a 24 year old up-and-comer? Now, he is a guy who can’t hit a shot. Amare Stoudemire is not dramatically superior statistically to David Lee. Last summer, there were many Knick fans that were making the case that the team did not upgrade by going from Lee to Amare. If you look at the numbers, it isn’t a big difference, but the Knicks are better. The Suns are worse. The Warriors are not significantly different. Is that unimportant when looking at Amare and at David Lee? Is it insignificant that for the statistical improvement of Beasley and Love that Minnesota isn’t winning games? Why would the case for them being good being stronger than the argument that all Minnesota has done is reallocate numbers while still playing losing basketball? Al Jefferson is gone, and the only difference in Minnesota is that those shots and rebounds are being taken by Beasley, Love, and Darko. Just like I started, they lost to the Bobcats at home when Charlotte was missing three starters, two of whom were clearly their best players. When that is happening, what does it matter if there is a meaningless individual achievement taking place. 20-15 is nice, but Moses Malone led the Sixers to the title when he did it. There was no fast pace to try to cover the fact Philly couldn’t guard anyone or lousy shooting to artificially inflate the rebounding numbers. They won, and Moses dominated because he was good. Dwight Howard did the 20-14 thing and led the Magic to the Finals. What they did mattered because it was a big reason why their teams were among the best in the league? When it happens on a 9-27 team, what does it matter? Shouldn’t a player putting up those numbers be enough to beat Tyrus Thomas, Dominic McGuire, Eduardo Najera, and Matt Carroll?
 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

"Not a chance in hell. As I am typing this I am also watching the Wolves and Bobcats game and Kevin Love diving all over the place for loose balls and Beasley hitting big shot after big shot now if that don’t define winning basketball what does. Sure the Wolves are not a good team but they are being lead by two players who are 22 years old. Name another team in the history of sports that have won a championship with their two best players 22 years old. The Spurs are a great team and most of that is because they have been together for over a decade."

I’m just curious how a team that lost to a Bobcats team without Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson, and Nazr Mohammed can somehow be worse. HOW CAN ANY COMBINATION OF NBA PLAYERS LOSE TO THE TEAM THE BOBCATS PUT OUT THERE? And you want to praise them, put one of them in the All-Star game? If Love is "diving all over the place" and Michael Beasley is "hitting big shot after big shot" then what does it say about Tyrus Thomas, Eduardo Najera, Dominic McGuire, D.J. Augustin, Matt Carroll, Derrick Brown, Gerald Henderson, and Kwame Brown. Heck, the best player left on the Bobcats – Boris Diaw- was fouled out. That is a brutal combination of players, but they just beat a team led by someone you claim to currently be better than Tim Duncan and Big Shot 9-27 Beas.

"You guys act like players like Tim Duncan has some magical winning wand and would win anywhere he went. He is in a great organization and has been since day one. He is a great power forward and arguably the best Power Forward of All Time but that does not mean he is the same player."

So let’s see, Tim Duncan is on a team with two other former lottery picks (McDyess and Jefferson), four other former first round picks (Parker, Hill, Splitter, and Anderson), three second round picks (Ginobili, Bonner, and Blair), and three undrafted players (Neal, Udoka, and Quinn). Go through Tim Duncan’s career and you’ll see journeymen who never played to that level elsewhere, free agents and draft "finds" because all they have ever had are late picks. It is just a wonderful coincidence that the Spurs became the smartest organization in the NBA when they drafted Tim Duncan. The Minnesota Timberwolves have nine former lottery picks, and two guys not drafted in the top 31. But Love and Beasley have no help. Webster was able to help a 50-win Blazer team, but not Minnesota. Luke Ridnour was arguably the best backup point guard in the league last year on a solid Milwaukee team, but can’t help the Wolves. Clearly, Love and Beasley have no help, just like Love had no help last year despite Al Jefferson clearly showing this year that he can be a bigtime player on a winner.

I have long believed in the idea of NBA tithing. Role players who get big money for having played with a lengend (Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, AI, LeBron, Jordan, Magic etc) part of their contract. It is humorous how when playing with Duncan, Malik Rose looked good. Rasho, Oberto, Avery, Bowen, Devin Brown, Speedy Claxton, Nazr Mohammed, Beno Udrih, etc. all looked good. Even now, Gary Neal, George Hill, and Matt Bonner look good. Antonio McDyess doesn’t look dead. I can easily make the case based off the rosters Tim Duncan has played with, the roster turnover throughout his career being what it has been so that no one else has four rings, and make the claim that he could make Luke Ridnour, Martell Webster, Wes Johnson, and Jonny Flynn look good. I have evidence of what Michael Beasley looks like in a competitive situation, and it involved Yakhouba Diawara, Quentin Richardson, and Udonis Haslem taking minutes. I also know that there is absolutely no precedent for a player losing three out of four games for three years running justifying the inflated numbers from playing for that extreme loser even using the benefit of hindsight.

That is what an All-Star does. LeBron and Wade have turned Arroyo, who entered the year a 31 percent three point shooter, into a 50 percent three point shooter. It is a direct result of playing with LeBron and Wade that Arroyo is shooting at an elite rate. How good did Kobe and Pau make Trevor Ariza look? Are there still people out there claiming that the Lakers were foolish not to keep a 24 year old up-and-comer? Now, he is a guy who can’t hit a shot. Amare Stoudemire is not dramatically superior statistically to David Lee. Last summer, there were many Knick fans that were making the case that the team did not upgrade by going from Lee to Amare. If you look at the numbers, it isn’t a big difference, but the Knicks are better. The Suns are worse. The Warriors are not significantly different. Is that unimportant when looking at Amare and at David Lee? Is it insignificant that for the statistical improvement of Beasley and Love that Minnesota isn’t winning games? Why would the case for them being good being stronger than the argument that all Minnesota has done is reallocate numbers while still playing losing basketball? Al Jefferson is gone, and the only difference in Minnesota is that those shots and rebounds are being taken by Beasley, Love, and Darko. Just like I started, they lost to the Bobcats at home when Charlotte was missing three starters, two of whom were clearly their best players. When that is happening, what does it matter if there is a meaningless individual achievement taking place. 20-15 is nice, but Moses Malone led the Sixers to the title when he did it. There was no fast pace to try to cover the fact Philly couldn’t guard anyone or lousy shooting to artificially inflate the rebounding numbers. They won, and Moses dominated because he was good. Dwight Howard did the 20-14 thing and led the Magic to the Finals. What they did mattered because it was a big reason why their teams were among the best in the league? When it happens on a 9-27 team, what does it matter? Shouldn’t a player putting up those numbers be enough to beat Tyrus Thomas, Dominic McGuire, Eduardo Najera, and Matt Carroll?
 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Extremely well put.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Extremely well put.

[nateoak10Participant]

 I’m willing to say either Love or Blake will get snubbed just cause they play for the Wolves and Clips and ones a rookie. Stupid things like that seem to happen and I think Stern will put Duncan in instead, look at him choosing Lee over Smith last year 

[nateoak10Participant]

 I’m willing to say either Love or Blake will get snubbed just cause they play for the Wolves and Clips and ones a rookie. Stupid things like that seem to happen and I think Stern will put Duncan in instead, look at him choosing Lee over Smith last year 

[JNixonParticipant]

"Put Tim Duncan on the Wolves and how many games do they win? I would reckon maybe even less."

How can anyone say something like this? I just don’t get it.

[JNixonParticipant]

"Put Tim Duncan on the Wolves and how many games do they win? I would reckon maybe even less."

How can anyone say something like this? I just don’t get it.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

BTPH absolutely destroyed this thread.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

BTPH absolutely destroyed this thread.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

It is a snub, but I think that BTPH was hoping to get some to look past JUST the numbers. Believe me, winning is a formula and you need the players to complete it.

"As I am typing this I am also watching the Wolves and Bobcats game and Kevin Love diving all over the place for loose balls and Beasley hitting big shot after big shot now if that don’t define winning basketball what does."- Mr. 19134

Now, I am not trying to pick on you, and you made a passionate argument. But, you know what defines winning basketball? Winning basketball games! Yes, they are young. They do not have a great team. But while you mention the two things both Kevin Love and Michael Beasley do to help their teams compete, you leave out all the things they do not do that make their team fall short. Youth has won championships, usually with experience as well. But, until the Wolves or Clippers are competitive, it will be very tough for me to say that I would rather have a Blake Griffin or Kevin Love than a Tim Duncan. Circumstance plays a part of how people view you as a player. If the Heat had kept Dorrell Wright and Michael Beasley instead of signing LeBron James and Chris Bosh, are they a more competitive team? Wright and Beasley are putting up numbers now that they have a more defined role on another team, but they are on teams losing more basketball games than they win. Not all players are created equally, and Tim Duncan may not average 20 and 15, but he has never had too for his teams to win. Love and Griffin have many chances to make an All-Star game, but to truly deserve it than it would be nice to know that their monster numbers are going towards their teams winning basketball games consistently.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

It is a snub, but I think that BTPH was hoping to get some to look past JUST the numbers. Believe me, winning is a formula and you need the players to complete it.

"As I am typing this I am also watching the Wolves and Bobcats game and Kevin Love diving all over the place for loose balls and Beasley hitting big shot after big shot now if that don’t define winning basketball what does."- Mr. 19134

Now, I am not trying to pick on you, and you made a passionate argument. But, you know what defines winning basketball? Winning basketball games! Yes, they are young. They do not have a great team. But while you mention the two things both Kevin Love and Michael Beasley do to help their teams compete, you leave out all the things they do not do that make their team fall short. Youth has won championships, usually with experience as well. But, until the Wolves or Clippers are competitive, it will be very tough for me to say that I would rather have a Blake Griffin or Kevin Love than a Tim Duncan. Circumstance plays a part of how people view you as a player. If the Heat had kept Dorrell Wright and Michael Beasley instead of signing LeBron James and Chris Bosh, are they a more competitive team? Wright and Beasley are putting up numbers now that they have a more defined role on another team, but they are on teams losing more basketball games than they win. Not all players are created equally, and Tim Duncan may not average 20 and 15, but he has never had too for his teams to win. Love and Griffin have many chances to make an All-Star game, but to truly deserve it than it would be nice to know that their monster numbers are going towards their teams winning basketball games consistently.

[the lake show]

It makes no sense when people say [put this guy on this team and see them win or lose more. i always laugh at those guys.They try to use that with the Rose vs Westbrook. News flash, no one knows who would do what if they switched teams unless they have switched teams

[the lake show]

It makes no sense when people say [put this guy on this team and see them win or lose more. i always laugh at those guys.They try to use that with the Rose vs Westbrook. News flash, no one knows who would do what if they switched teams unless they have switched teams

[Author]

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