[Bigstinky34Participant]

Obviously the main priority is getting a coach… there is reported mutual interest between Milwaukee and Memphis coach Lionel Hollins… i have to believe they are waiting for the Grizzlies to be eliminated so they can talk to Hollins… another possible target is Brian Shaw… id be ok with either of them… then If Monta Ellis opts out which is what sources are saying he will do then the Bucks will have $32 Mil in cap room… Add to that another $6 Mil if they amnesty Drew Gooden which I believe will happen since he barely played and this is the last year they can use it on him… That leaves them with about $38 Mil in cap space… I think Milwaukee will try to keep Ellis but there is reported interest from Sacramento, Dallas and Atlanta so at the end of the day I think he signs elsewhere… I think some team will offer Jennings a contract worth about $12 mil a year which I think the Bucks will match taking there cap space down to $26mil… The Bucks nearly had Josh Smith at the trade deadline and he reportedly wouldn’t mind playing here so I think the Bucks would sign him for about $14-15 mil a year leaving them with $11-12mil in cap space… With that money I’d offer Tyreke Evans or Andre Iguadala a deal and hope for the best… In the draft I’d take Carter-Williams if he’s available or Jamaal Franklin… Any thoughts???

[slash787Participant]

Just imagine if they didn’t trade Tobias Harris.

[slash787Participant]

Just imagine if they didn’t trade Tobias Harris.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Harris is an undersized power forward who can’t shoot. It is nice that he had a decent run of games in Orlando, but he is not as good as Ilyasova nor can he defend 3s like Mbah a Moute.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

Harris is an undersized power forward who can’t shoot. It is nice that he had a decent run of games in Orlando, but he is not as good as Ilyasova nor can he defend 3s like Mbah a Moute.

[TRC1991Participant]

tyreke evans, monta ellis, and josh smith in the same lineup? most selfish team in NBA history

[Bigstinky34Participant]

I’m saying Ellis will be gone and Jennings will be resigned…

[Bigstinky34Participant]

I’m saying Ellis will be gone and Jennings will be resigned…

[TRC1991Participant]

tyreke evans, monta ellis, and josh smith in the same lineup? most selfish team in NBA history

[arowsky205Participant]

I like your thinking and it would be great if the Bucks were aggressive like this, but it is easier said than done. We all know that Milwaukee isn’t the first place that most people want to play in. I agree that Jennings will probably get around 12 mil per because guys get overpaid in free agency, especially restricted free agency, and the Bucks should definitely retain him if that is in fact the price. Evans could be a real possibility too. 11-12 mil is probably a good price for him. But remember he is also a restricted free agent, so the Kings very well may match that.

If they get Jennings and Evans, Josh Smith is probably out of the picture. Signing him would pretty much diminish the rest of their cap space, leaving them with only 9 guys on the roster (assuming they amnesty Gooden and decline Gustavo Ayon’s team option) and no room to get 6 other guys. Plus, they will have cap holds on all of their free agents, so they might not be able to sign him in the first place. Don’t expect them to renounce everyone immediately, as Redick and Dunleavy may be valuable sign-and-trade pieces. I do think they should renounce Ellis right away so that they can focus on this being Jennings’ team to run.

I wouldn’t go after Smith to begin with. They have a logjam at PF already with Ilyasova, Henson, Mbah a Moute, and Udoh all under contract next season. It’s also not definite they’re going to get rid of Gooden and Ayon. Henson has so much potential. Look for him to have a big role next year, especially with a new coach. Having Smith would just impede his development.

As for the draft, I think they should go with a wing with the 15th pick. If either Muhammad or KCP fall, that’s the obvious pick. I really like Sergey Karasev. Other options are Franklin, Crabbe, and Rice Jr.

Free agency maybe just isn’t the way to go for them being a small market team. I think they have a really good nucleus of Jennings, Henson, Ilyasova, and Sanders. Add in the 15th pick, and you have 5 young guys (Ilyasova the only one over 24) who can make a really good team if they grow together. Adding a guy like Evans would certainly help, though.

[Bigstinky34Participant]

Getting Evans and Smith is my best case scenario… I’d go after Smith because he’s versatile and as close to a superstar as the Bucks could probably get… I think he can play SF as well as PF… The starting lineup could be Jennings, Evans, Ilyasova, Smith and Sanders… Ilyasova can play the 3 or the 4… Henson would backup the 4 while he develops more… Udoh can backup primarily at center… Smith would add a lot of depth and versatility… If Sacramento is really interested I’m Ellis like reported then I’d have to think they don’t want to pay Evans… I’d also like to point out that even though they just signed Ilyasova last year he is always a candidate to be traded…

[Bigstinky34Participant]

Getting Evans and Smith is my best case scenario… I’d go after Smith because he’s versatile and as close to a superstar as the Bucks could probably get… I think he can play SF as well as PF… The starting lineup could be Jennings, Evans, Ilyasova, Smith and Sanders… Ilyasova can play the 3 or the 4… Henson would backup the 4 while he develops more… Udoh can backup primarily at center… Smith would add a lot of depth and versatility… If Sacramento is really interested I’m Ellis like reported then I’d have to think they don’t want to pay Evans… I’d also like to point out that even though they just signed Ilyasova last year he is always a candidate to be traded…

[trueone313detroitParticipant]

I would like that too. But Bazz onboard they are REALLY go need a good stretch 4. Jennings is already sporadic with his shooting and bazz no Jumper.

[trueone313detroitParticipant]

I would like that too. But Bazz onboard they are REALLY go need a good stretch 4. Jennings is already sporadic with his shooting and bazz no Jumper.

[arowsky205Participant]

I like your thinking and it would be great if the Bucks were aggressive like this, but it is easier said than done. We all know that Milwaukee isn’t the first place that most people want to play in. I agree that Jennings will probably get around 12 mil per because guys get overpaid in free agency, especially restricted free agency, and the Bucks should definitely retain him if that is in fact the price. Evans could be a real possibility too. 11-12 mil is probably a good price for him. But remember he is also a restricted free agent, so the Kings very well may match that.

If they get Jennings and Evans, Josh Smith is probably out of the picture. Signing him would pretty much diminish the rest of their cap space, leaving them with only 9 guys on the roster (assuming they amnesty Gooden and decline Gustavo Ayon’s team option) and no room to get 6 other guys. Plus, they will have cap holds on all of their free agents, so they might not be able to sign him in the first place. Don’t expect them to renounce everyone immediately, as Redick and Dunleavy may be valuable sign-and-trade pieces. I do think they should renounce Ellis right away so that they can focus on this being Jennings’ team to run.

I wouldn’t go after Smith to begin with. They have a logjam at PF already with Ilyasova, Henson, Mbah a Moute, and Udoh all under contract next season. It’s also not definite they’re going to get rid of Gooden and Ayon. Henson has so much potential. Look for him to have a big role next year, especially with a new coach. Having Smith would just impede his development.

As for the draft, I think they should go with a wing with the 15th pick. If either Muhammad or KCP fall, that’s the obvious pick. I really like Sergey Karasev. Other options are Franklin, Crabbe, and Rice Jr.

Free agency maybe just isn’t the way to go for them being a small market team. I think they have a really good nucleus of Jennings, Henson, Ilyasova, and Sanders. Add in the 15th pick, and you have 5 young guys (Ilyasova the only one over 24) who can make a really good team if they grow together. Adding a guy like Evans would certainly help, though.

[CavFanPRParticipant]

They shouldn’t use the amnesty on a 6 mil contract imo. 32 mil cap space is more than enough.

[CavFanPRParticipant]

They shouldn’t use the amnesty on a 6 mil contract imo. 32 mil cap space is more than enough.

[PistonsFan22Participant]

I like your ideas. I think the Bucks would be best without Ellis. Jennings and Ellis are too similar in style. It just wasn’t a good match, not that they aren’t good players. Too many of the same strengths and weaknesses. I’d like to see the Bucks get a guy like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope with their pick if he can somehow drop that far. A good shooter who doesn’t have to have to dribble the ball much to contribute on offense.

I like the idea of the Bucks staying in rebuild mode for now. I’d rather build through the draft and then sign a big time free agent that can put the team over the top. I don’t really know how far Josh Smith could take the Bucks. Sure you would make the playoffs and probably be a pretty good team that could win a series and maybe even a 2nd round series. Would Smith be enough to beat the Heat or Pacers? I’m not convinced of that. I definitely don’t like the idea of the Bucks signing Tyreke Evans. If you resign Brandon Jennings then sign Tyreke Evans the Bucks would be right back to where they were when they put Jennings and Ellis together. Too many of the same strengths, particularly the need to have the ball in their hands to be effective on offense.

[PistonsFan22Participant]

I like your ideas. I think the Bucks would be best without Ellis. Jennings and Ellis are too similar in style. It just wasn’t a good match, not that they aren’t good players. Too many of the same strengths and weaknesses. I’d like to see the Bucks get a guy like Kentavious Caldwell-Pope with their pick if he can somehow drop that far. A good shooter who doesn’t have to have to dribble the ball much to contribute on offense.

I like the idea of the Bucks staying in rebuild mode for now. I’d rather build through the draft and then sign a big time free agent that can put the team over the top. I don’t really know how far Josh Smith could take the Bucks. Sure you would make the playoffs and probably be a pretty good team that could win a series and maybe even a 2nd round series. Would Smith be enough to beat the Heat or Pacers? I’m not convinced of that. I definitely don’t like the idea of the Bucks signing Tyreke Evans. If you resign Brandon Jennings then sign Tyreke Evans the Bucks would be right back to where they were when they put Jennings and Ellis together. Too many of the same strengths, particularly the need to have the ball in their hands to be effective on offense.

[machu46Participant]

As a Bucks fan, I kinda want to see them bottom out instead of always being the 7-9th team in the East. I’d like to let Ellis go, let Jennings go if he gets more than $11 million, trade Mbah A Moute to a contender that can use his defense, and move up in the draft if necessary to get MCW or Schroder.

I think the front office will actually try to bring back Jennings and sign Josh Smith and Iguodala.

Based on what I’ve heard from other Bucks fans, I’m one of the only people that is ok with bringing Jennings back no matter the price. Bucks fans seem to be super done with him and Ellis and just want both of them gone.

[machu46Participant]

As a Bucks fan, I kinda want to see them bottom out instead of always being the 7-9th team in the East. I’d like to let Ellis go, let Jennings go if he gets more than $11 million, trade Mbah A Moute to a contender that can use his defense, and move up in the draft if necessary to get MCW or Schroder.

I think the front office will actually try to bring back Jennings and sign Josh Smith and Iguodala.

Based on what I’ve heard from other Bucks fans, I’m one of the only people that is ok with bringing Jennings back no matter the price. Bucks fans seem to be super done with him and Ellis and just want both of them gone.

[machu46Participant]

Also, Bucks fans seem much more interested in bringing back Ellis as the PG than Jennings. Ellis actually passed the ball a lot this year, especially once we got Redick. Having said that, he still settled for too many mid range jumpers IMO. If Ellis is willing to return to Milwaukee and we try to continue to be the 7-9th team in the East, he’d be an interesting candidate, but as I said before, I’d prefer to bottom out and just keep Sanders, Henson, and maybe Ilyasova.

[machu46Participant]

Also, Bucks fans seem much more interested in bringing back Ellis as the PG than Jennings. Ellis actually passed the ball a lot this year, especially once we got Redick. Having said that, he still settled for too many mid range jumpers IMO. If Ellis is willing to return to Milwaukee and we try to continue to be the 7-9th team in the East, he’d be an interesting candidate, but as I said before, I’d prefer to bottom out and just keep Sanders, Henson, and maybe Ilyasova.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The Bucks are a small market team, they aren’t going to eat the $14 million left on Gooden’s deal. If Ellis opts out, I think they turn their attention to retaining Jennings and Redick.Dunleavy will probably get a good deal to join a contender, and Redick might choose to take a MLE deal from a team like the Clippers, so they would need to add some scoring off the bench. Karasev would certainly fit the bill as someone who can do the Dunleavy-type things if he is still there.

Also, it would be a great time to deal Larry Sanders, because he is not a guy worth paying and he will be an RFA in 2014. Let some other team be the fool and pay him like the Clippers did DeAndre Jordan and the Nuggets did JaVale McGee. Shot blockers who don’t keep teams from scoring in the paint and don’t offer much offensively are not worth paying. If the Bucks land Hollins to coach them, I could see him selling Al Jefferson on him being his new ZBo.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

The Bucks are a small market team, they aren’t going to eat the $14 million left on Gooden’s deal. If Ellis opts out, I think they turn their attention to retaining Jennings and Redick.Dunleavy will probably get a good deal to join a contender, and Redick might choose to take a MLE deal from a team like the Clippers, so they would need to add some scoring off the bench. Karasev would certainly fit the bill as someone who can do the Dunleavy-type things if he is still there.

Also, it would be a great time to deal Larry Sanders, because he is not a guy worth paying and he will be an RFA in 2014. Let some other team be the fool and pay him like the Clippers did DeAndre Jordan and the Nuggets did JaVale McGee. Shot blockers who don’t keep teams from scoring in the paint and don’t offer much offensively are not worth paying. If the Bucks land Hollins to coach them, I could see him selling Al Jefferson on him being his new ZBo.

[machu46Participant]

The part about Sanders is just horribly untrue. Statistically, teams scored far less in the paint when he was on the floor than any other big man in the league. If Sanders keeps up this level of play (and I think he’ll improve a little offensively), he’s easily worth what DeAndre Jordan got. “Shot blocker that doesn’t actually deter people from scoring inside” is much closer to describing someone like Ibaka than it is Sanders.

[machu46Participant]

The part about Sanders is just horribly untrue. Statistically, teams scored far less in the paint when he was on the floor than any other big man in the league. If Sanders keeps up this level of play (and I think he’ll improve a little offensively), he’s easily worth what DeAndre Jordan got. “Shot blocker that doesn’t actually deter people from scoring inside” is much closer to describing someone like Ibaka than it is Sanders.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

20th in the league in opponents free throws made (1398 in 82 games)
29th in the league in opponents points in the paint (46.3)
20th in the league in defensive rebounding percentage (72.3%)

The Bucks got worse defensively as the season went on, and as Sanders’ minutes increased. In the month of November, Sanders played 22.1 minutes, his lowest load for a month during the season. On December 1st, the Bucks led the league in opponents points in the paint at 35.4. It is worth noting, Sanders did not start a game that month and the team went 7-7. By January 1 they went from 1st to 19th and had given up 41.6 per. Sanders became the starter early in December and saw his minutes increase to 27.3 per that month. Skiles resigned on January 8th, which was in a way a death sentence for enforcing defensive accountability, they were giving up 43 points in the paint per (it was a heck of a 3-game run to end his reign) and held a 16-16 record. By February 1, it was up to 44 points in the paint per when Sanders averaged 25.7 per. On March 1, the number was up to 45.1. February was also a month where the new coach momentum ended going 4-8. Sanders missed 4 games in February but averaged 30.3 in the ones he did. On April 1, it was up to 45.9 points in the paint per. Sanders averaged 31.4 minutes that month, and were 7-9. The Bucks then rode out the regular season unlike any playoff team in recent memory where they acted as though they were tanking. Sanders played his final regular season game on April 10, an epic battle where Moses Vucevic only had 14 points and 3 assists prior to Sanders leaving with an injury prior to halftime. After that game, the Bucks were giving up 45.8 points in the paint. They finished the year giving up on average 46.3 points in the paint. They went 3-7 in the month of April.

As for handling centers, among Eastern centers, Horford was plus points and field goal percentage against Milwaukee (his worst game was when Sanders was out), Hibbert was at average in points 11.5 vs 11.9 and a plus in field goal percentage. Monroe was slightly above the average in points (17.0 to 16.0) and a plus field goal percentage (56.0 to 48.6) with the game Sanders missed being below his season average in points (14) and 6-12 shooting. Bosh was plus points and field goal percentage. Vucevic was plus points and field goal percentage. Varejao was at his points and plus field goal percentage. Hawes was plus points and field goal percentage even when factoring out the game Sanders missed and pointing out his bad game was early in the year where Sanders played minimally. Garnett was at his points and minus field goal percentage (42.1 versus 49.6). Chandler was at his points and field goal percentage. Nene played one game against the Bucks when Sanders was also there, and Nene was at his average for points was 6-15 shooting and had 6 assists. Lopez and Noah were minus points and field goal percentage. Amir Johnson started all three games with different froncourt mates (Davis, Bargnani, and Valanciunas) so it is hard to identify the technical “center” but he was plus points and at his field goal percentage. Charlotte was a train wreck with their frontcourt and identifying who is what, but Biyombo such that he gets guarded by anyone but himself was slightly plus points and minus field goal percentage.

How did Sanders do in the playoffs? 5 fouls in 18 minutes in Game 1. He improved to 5 fouls in 28 minutes in Game 2 with a bonus 5 turnovers. In Game 3, he got to almost 35 minutes before getting 5 fouls. In Game 4 where Miami rested Dwyane Wade, only 3 fouls in 31 minutes. For the series, 10.8 points (on 57.6 percent shooting and 45.5 from the line), 8.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 4.5 fouls, and 3 turnovers in 28.3 minutes.

You can’t have a disastrous season defensively and think Sanders was great. He was just another lousy center who got time on the court. You can argue was better than Dalembert, Henson, and the other carbon copies, but that is the farthest thing from good. When Milwaukee had a healthy, or at least semi-healthy Andrew Bogut, they had a great defensive center and it bore out in the results. The roster has not turned over that much beyond the center spot. Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute, and Jennings are still there. The defensive prowess of Monta Ellis versus Coreyy Maggette and John Salmons is one I don’t think needs to take place. The results with Sanders are lousy, and it would be foolish to pay him like they were good. If he was a good defensive player, then why can’t the Bucks replicate the defensive success they had in 2009-10 and 2010-11 with a healthy Bogut?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

20th in the league in opponents free throws made (1398 in 82 games)
29th in the league in opponents points in the paint (46.3)
20th in the league in defensive rebounding percentage (72.3%)

The Bucks got worse defensively as the season went on, and as Sanders’ minutes increased. In the month of November, Sanders played 22.1 minutes, his lowest load for a month during the season. On December 1st, the Bucks led the league in opponents points in the paint at 35.4. It is worth noting, Sanders did not start a game that month and the team went 7-7. By January 1 they went from 1st to 19th and had given up 41.6 per. Sanders became the starter early in December and saw his minutes increase to 27.3 per that month. Skiles resigned on January 8th, which was in a way a death sentence for enforcing defensive accountability, they were giving up 43 points in the paint per (it was a heck of a 3-game run to end his reign) and held a 16-16 record. By February 1, it was up to 44 points in the paint per when Sanders averaged 25.7 per. On March 1, the number was up to 45.1. February was also a month where the new coach momentum ended going 4-8. Sanders missed 4 games in February but averaged 30.3 in the ones he did. On April 1, it was up to 45.9 points in the paint per. Sanders averaged 31.4 minutes that month, and were 7-9. The Bucks then rode out the regular season unlike any playoff team in recent memory where they acted as though they were tanking. Sanders played his final regular season game on April 10, an epic battle where Moses Vucevic only had 14 points and 3 assists prior to Sanders leaving with an injury prior to halftime. After that game, the Bucks were giving up 45.8 points in the paint. They finished the year giving up on average 46.3 points in the paint. They went 3-7 in the month of April.

As for handling centers, among Eastern centers, Horford was plus points and field goal percentage against Milwaukee (his worst game was when Sanders was out), Hibbert was at average in points 11.5 vs 11.9 and a plus in field goal percentage. Monroe was slightly above the average in points (17.0 to 16.0) and a plus field goal percentage (56.0 to 48.6) with the game Sanders missed being below his season average in points (14) and 6-12 shooting. Bosh was plus points and field goal percentage. Vucevic was plus points and field goal percentage. Varejao was at his points and plus field goal percentage. Hawes was plus points and field goal percentage even when factoring out the game Sanders missed and pointing out his bad game was early in the year where Sanders played minimally. Garnett was at his points and minus field goal percentage (42.1 versus 49.6). Chandler was at his points and field goal percentage. Nene played one game against the Bucks when Sanders was also there, and Nene was at his average for points was 6-15 shooting and had 6 assists. Lopez and Noah were minus points and field goal percentage. Amir Johnson started all three games with different froncourt mates (Davis, Bargnani, and Valanciunas) so it is hard to identify the technical “center” but he was plus points and at his field goal percentage. Charlotte was a train wreck with their frontcourt and identifying who is what, but Biyombo such that he gets guarded by anyone but himself was slightly plus points and minus field goal percentage.

How did Sanders do in the playoffs? 5 fouls in 18 minutes in Game 1. He improved to 5 fouls in 28 minutes in Game 2 with a bonus 5 turnovers. In Game 3, he got to almost 35 minutes before getting 5 fouls. In Game 4 where Miami rested Dwyane Wade, only 3 fouls in 31 minutes. For the series, 10.8 points (on 57.6 percent shooting and 45.5 from the line), 8.3 rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 4.5 fouls, and 3 turnovers in 28.3 minutes.

You can’t have a disastrous season defensively and think Sanders was great. He was just another lousy center who got time on the court. You can argue was better than Dalembert, Henson, and the other carbon copies, but that is the farthest thing from good. When Milwaukee had a healthy, or at least semi-healthy Andrew Bogut, they had a great defensive center and it bore out in the results. The roster has not turned over that much beyond the center spot. Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute, and Jennings are still there. The defensive prowess of Monta Ellis versus Coreyy Maggette and John Salmons is one I don’t think needs to take place. The results with Sanders are lousy, and it would be foolish to pay him like they were good. If he was a good defensive player, then why can’t the Bucks replicate the defensive success they had in 2009-10 and 2010-11 with a healthy Bogut?

[Ghost01Participant]

How bout you look at this link…

http://www.82games.com/1213/12MIL13.HTM

(Scroll to bottom)

This is statistic evidence the Bucks were far better defensively on the court with Sanders than without. 103 Points allowed per 100 possessions with him on the court, as opposed to 109.2 when he is off the court. So their defense was 6.2 points better with him on the court than off.

Instead of saying things like, “He started playing more, there defense got worse” maybe you should provide some statistical support. Bringing up team statistics is pretty meaningless, and I am not arguing Sanders is worth a damn offensively, but these stats make it blatantly clear he is an elite defensive player. I know 103 Points allowed per 100 is not good, but the fact they were giving up 109 when he wasn’t out there shows outside of him they are a catastrophically bad defensive team, which is exactly the opposite of what you suggested was true by cherry picking a few random games and assuming what he was actually responsible for.

[Ghost01Participant]

How bout you look at this link…

http://www.82games.com/1213/12MIL13.HTM

(Scroll to bottom)

This is statistic evidence the Bucks were far better defensively on the court with Sanders than without. 103 Points allowed per 100 possessions with him on the court, as opposed to 109.2 when he is off the court. So their defense was 6.2 points better with him on the court than off.

Instead of saying things like, “He started playing more, there defense got worse” maybe you should provide some statistical support. Bringing up team statistics is pretty meaningless, and I am not arguing Sanders is worth a damn offensively, but these stats make it blatantly clear he is an elite defensive player. I know 103 Points allowed per 100 is not good, but the fact they were giving up 109 when he wasn’t out there shows outside of him they are a catastrophically bad defensive team, which is exactly the opposite of what you suggested was true by cherry picking a few random games and assuming what he was actually responsible for.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

First off, I provided support, the point about the centers performing just as well if not better against Sanders than their norm is right on that page you cited. If you want it framed or worded differently, it is your choice but it is the same information. He didn’t stop other centers. He also didn’t keep others from scoring in the paint, getting second chances, or scoring at the line. Good defensive centers anchor a defense that excel in those areas. The Spurs, Pacers, and Grizzlies excelled in those areas. For years, Dwight Howard excelled in those areas. He didn’t this year, and deserved the blame for not living up to his reputation and historical performance. Yes, D’Antoni and his health were factors, but it did not mitigate it all. He still was not as good as he should have been. When healthy, Andrew Bogut had Milwaukee doing really well in those areas. It isn’t cherry picking numbers or games. It is the story of the season and why teams are good defensively while others are not.

Also, the defense got worse as the year went on and went completely in the tank when Skiles resigned/quit/got fired. That is not a debate. It happened, and context is an important part of understanding any statistics. The events and rhythm (or lack thereof) of the Bucks season matters. It matters that the team got off to a good start defensively as does that the lack of minutes and eventual elevation of Sanders led and benching of Sam Dalembert essentially led to him checking out mentally. You can see the decline of the Bucks through their defense leading up to the coaching change. They got rolled by the Pacers, Rockets, and Spurs in a way that can mandated something had to give. Sanders was there and starting when this took place. After that point, I do not fault Boylan’s effort, but it is the reality of an interim coach. When a coach does not have the needed power to do his job, it is hard to run a disciplined and effective defense.

The fact that Larry Sanders played more as the year went on did not make him, the overall defense, or the overall team better. The decline in record and performance is clear. It is not about blame for all that was wrong in Milwaukee as much as the one cannot credit him for doing a good job when his job was being done poorly. You brought up the 103 points per 100 possessions and only wanted to see it through your lens. It also matters that Sanders wasn’t always in because of foul trouble exposing his team to backups. He doesn’t get credit for being good because Dalembert didn’t want to be there and John Henson was a skinny rookie. Given how the team approached the stretch run of the season and how it was defending late in March and early April, does it really stand to reason that Larry Sanders deserves credit for the team continuing to be awful defensively once he left to an injury? They were bad leading up to it, bad without him, and then bad again when he returned for the playoffs. Being better than awful doesn’t make him good, and it certainly isn’t something you build around and commit to in a small market. The goal is not to be bad. The bar that I set for a good defensive center was Andrew Bogut who played with much of the same core of players and had Milwaukee operating as a top tier defensive team. They were the farthest thing from that this year, and if some dumb team thinks he is anything close to what Andrew Bogut was then try to bleed that team out of as much as possible for him.

[machu46Participant]

If you look up Sanders and compare him to any center in the league besides maybe Tim Duncan, you’ll see that Sanders statistically was a better defender than every other center this year. I can’t really make it any simpler than that. Whether it was defending the post, isolations, or pick and rolls, he was better than basically every big man in the NBA this year.

[machu46Participant]

If you look up Sanders and compare him to any center in the league besides maybe Tim Duncan, you’ll see that Sanders statistically was a better defender than every other center this year. I can’t really make it any simpler than that. Whether it was defending the post, isolations, or pick and rolls, he was better than basically every big man in the NBA this year.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

First off, I provided support, the point about the centers performing just as well if not better against Sanders than their norm is right on that page you cited. If you want it framed or worded differently, it is your choice but it is the same information. He didn’t stop other centers. He also didn’t keep others from scoring in the paint, getting second chances, or scoring at the line. Good defensive centers anchor a defense that excel in those areas. The Spurs, Pacers, and Grizzlies excelled in those areas. For years, Dwight Howard excelled in those areas. He didn’t this year, and deserved the blame for not living up to his reputation and historical performance. Yes, D’Antoni and his health were factors, but it did not mitigate it all. He still was not as good as he should have been. When healthy, Andrew Bogut had Milwaukee doing really well in those areas. It isn’t cherry picking numbers or games. It is the story of the season and why teams are good defensively while others are not.

Also, the defense got worse as the year went on and went completely in the tank when Skiles resigned/quit/got fired. That is not a debate. It happened, and context is an important part of understanding any statistics. The events and rhythm (or lack thereof) of the Bucks season matters. It matters that the team got off to a good start defensively as does that the lack of minutes and eventual elevation of Sanders led and benching of Sam Dalembert essentially led to him checking out mentally. You can see the decline of the Bucks through their defense leading up to the coaching change. They got rolled by the Pacers, Rockets, and Spurs in a way that can mandated something had to give. Sanders was there and starting when this took place. After that point, I do not fault Boylan’s effort, but it is the reality of an interim coach. When a coach does not have the needed power to do his job, it is hard to run a disciplined and effective defense.

The fact that Larry Sanders played more as the year went on did not make him, the overall defense, or the overall team better. The decline in record and performance is clear. It is not about blame for all that was wrong in Milwaukee as much as the one cannot credit him for doing a good job when his job was being done poorly. You brought up the 103 points per 100 possessions and only wanted to see it through your lens. It also matters that Sanders wasn’t always in because of foul trouble exposing his team to backups. He doesn’t get credit for being good because Dalembert didn’t want to be there and John Henson was a skinny rookie. Given how the team approached the stretch run of the season and how it was defending late in March and early April, does it really stand to reason that Larry Sanders deserves credit for the team continuing to be awful defensively once he left to an injury? They were bad leading up to it, bad without him, and then bad again when he returned for the playoffs. Being better than awful doesn’t make him good, and it certainly isn’t something you build around and commit to in a small market. The goal is not to be bad. The bar that I set for a good defensive center was Andrew Bogut who played with much of the same core of players and had Milwaukee operating as a top tier defensive team. They were the farthest thing from that this year, and if some dumb team thinks he is anything close to what Andrew Bogut was then try to bleed that team out of as much as possible for him.

[Ghost01Participant]

I agree with the above post that Sanders had great defensive statistics other thanks blocks, I trust Zach Lowe just as much as anyone who writes about basketball, and he has mentioned this numerous times in regards to Sanders. What I do agree with, is his value to a team like the Bucks just isn’t as high. If he was on a contending team, that had no problem scoring, he could add much more value.

I think the problem with the Bucks is this: It’s a horrible coaching job right now. Their 3 best scorers are all free agents, outside of them, Sanders, Ilyasova, and Mbah A Moute are there 3 best players under contract for next season. Who wants to go coach that team? Sure some guys hungry for a head coaching job, but Lionel Hollins? Really? He’s in the WCF he’s going to jump ship for a team in rebuilding phase?

[machu46Participant]

The only thing attractive about coaching the bucks at all is that they have so much cap space to work with. If they listen to the coach, he can mold the team exactly as he likes.

[machu46Participant]

The only thing attractive about coaching the bucks at all is that they have so much cap space to work with. If they listen to the coach, he can mold the team exactly as he likes.

[Ghost01Participant]

I agree with the above post that Sanders had great defensive statistics other thanks blocks, I trust Zach Lowe just as much as anyone who writes about basketball, and he has mentioned this numerous times in regards to Sanders. What I do agree with, is his value to a team like the Bucks just isn’t as high. If he was on a contending team, that had no problem scoring, he could add much more value.

I think the problem with the Bucks is this: It’s a horrible coaching job right now. Their 3 best scorers are all free agents, outside of them, Sanders, Ilyasova, and Mbah A Moute are there 3 best players under contract for next season. Who wants to go coach that team? Sure some guys hungry for a head coaching job, but Lionel Hollins? Really? He’s in the WCF he’s going to jump ship for a team in rebuilding phase?

[Bigstinky34Participant]

Using the amnesty on Gooden makes complete sense because your just eating the $14 mil left on his contract anyway by not playing him… If you have no plan to play him what’s the difference… Get rid of him and use the money to improve the the team… Getting Josh Smith alone can help Milwaukee get to a 6 seed and keeping Jennings along with signing a player like Evans or Iguadala can get them to a 4 or 5 seed…

[Bigstinky34Participant]

Using the amnesty on Gooden makes complete sense because your just eating the $14 mil left on his contract anyway by not playing him… If you have no plan to play him what’s the difference… Get rid of him and use the money to improve the the team… Getting Josh Smith alone can help Milwaukee get to a 6 seed and keeping Jennings along with signing a player like Evans or Iguadala can get them to a 4 or 5 seed…

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