[CavFanPRParticipant]

Who’s better? I don’t know but to me Nogueira is a better prospect for many reasons. Unlike Noel, he’s healthy and could contribute right away if his team needs him. His frame can definetly support more weight. I think his 220 frame has a lot to do with the place he was raised. Brazil isn’t necessarily a rich country so maybe he didn’t have a proper diet. Once he gets to the NBA, that will change. I definetly see him at 250.

Noel can jump higher but does it really matter at their size? Nogueira has an extra 3 inches on his wingspan over Noel and he’s much more agile than him thanks to his soccer days. I honestly think being agile is more important than being athletic when your 7 feet tall.

I would take Lucas Nogueira over Nerlens Noel any day of the week. He played in the ACB which is considered a very good and competitive league. He only averaged 13 minutes a game but I’ve heard it’s hard to get minutes in those leagues and he was a rookie. He looks like a great defender and that’s exactly what a team like the cavs need.

Would you take him first overall? That seems like a stretch but he’s better than both Noel and Len. What better mentor than fellow Brazilian and NBA veteran, Anderson Varejao?

Please post valid statements. As a cav fan, I would be thrilled if we drafted Nogueira. I don’t think he would be a reach with #1 pick.

[Brennan23Participant]

As a cavs fan as well I would rather him over Len. I see Len as a future bust or a Kosta Kofus type player

[CavFanPRParticipant]

Thanks. Len does remind me of Kuofos a lot.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

I hate that Len does have a little Koufos in him now than you mention it. Koufos is a weird scenario though in that he was a terrible defender at Ohio State while he showed a lot of offensive savy and skills. Somehow he did a 180 in the League, lost what was his most prized possession in his jump shot 18 to 20 feet and somehow became a good/tough rebounder and defender. I have noticed playing as a big in Utah will do that to a player.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

I hate that Len does have a little Koufos in him now than you mention it. Koufos is a weird scenario though in that he was a terrible defender at Ohio State while he showed a lot of offensive savy and skills. Somehow he did a 180 in the League, lost what was his most prized possession in his jump shot 18 to 20 feet and somehow became a good/tough rebounder and defender. I have noticed playing as a big in Utah will do that to a player.

[CavFanPRParticipant]

Thanks. Len does remind me of Kuofos a lot.

[Brennan23Participant]

As a cavs fan as well I would rather him over Len. I see Len as a future bust or a Kosta Kofus type player

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

He is like a young athletic version of Varejao. I have been thinking myself that this whole business about the Cavs wanting to go to 13 to get Karasev is a smokescreen second best scenario. They have never let it leak they wanted a guy so bad. He or Steve Adams are my guesses. The big man trio they have now in Andy, TT and Zeller are actually all guys whose production would go up at pf instead of center. Zeller and Andy played great together early on but Zeller struggled when he was matched up with any other big. The Cavs need a true center and Len or Bebe would serve that purpose.

Sam Amico has written, though as just a spry remark (on more than a couple occasions), that the Cavs secretly have a guy not on anyone’s radar as a possible selection for the first pick. He said nobody has talked about the guy as being in the remote conversation for number one, all season, so that rules out Cody Zeller and all the other top guys. My thinking was that it was Adams, McCollum, KCP (doubtful) or Nogueira.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

He is like a young athletic version of Varejao. I have been thinking myself that this whole business about the Cavs wanting to go to 13 to get Karasev is a smokescreen second best scenario. They have never let it leak they wanted a guy so bad. He or Steve Adams are my guesses. The big man trio they have now in Andy, TT and Zeller are actually all guys whose production would go up at pf instead of center. Zeller and Andy played great together early on but Zeller struggled when he was matched up with any other big. The Cavs need a true center and Len or Bebe would serve that purpose.

Sam Amico has written, though as just a spry remark (on more than a couple occasions), that the Cavs secretly have a guy not on anyone’s radar as a possible selection for the first pick. He said nobody has talked about the guy as being in the remote conversation for number one, all season, so that rules out Cody Zeller and all the other top guys. My thinking was that it was Adams, McCollum, KCP (doubtful) or Nogueira.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Nogueira looks like a below-average athlete by NBA standards, while Noel is an elite athlete. No way is Nogueira even close to being as agile as Noel, whose lateral quickness is absolutely elite for his size.

Noel had a very productive 24 game college season. It may not be a lot, but it is a much better predictor of NBA success than anything Nogueira has done. Also, Noel is younger and has a better frame. I think Noel will definitely have an easier time gaining strength in the league.

i have not seen a ton of Nogueira, so maybe I am wrong about him, but I don’t see what he does better than Noel, other than possibly stay healthy. Noel is pretty clearly the superior offensive player and I would be surprised if Nogueira ends up being a better defender as well. Is Nogueira way more skilled than I think he is?

[CavFanPRParticipant]

Wasn’t one of the knocks on Noel his raw offensive game? Basically, they’re both raw. Noel is athletic, that’s great. He just came off an ACL injury. How athletic will he be once he comes back? I doubt he’ll have half the athleticism he had in college. Nogueira is two years older but he’s played against tougher competition for the past year or two. Once he adds weight he’ll be a real threat defensively.

[CavFanPRParticipant]

Wasn’t one of the knocks on Noel his raw offensive game? Basically, they’re both raw. Noel is athletic, that’s great. He just came off an ACL injury. How athletic will he be once he comes back? I doubt he’ll have half the athleticism he had in college. Nogueira is two years older but he’s played against tougher competition for the past year or two. Once he adds weight he’ll be a real threat defensively.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Nogueira looks like a below-average athlete by NBA standards, while Noel is an elite athlete. No way is Nogueira even close to being as agile as Noel, whose lateral quickness is absolutely elite for his size.

Noel had a very productive 24 game college season. It may not be a lot, but it is a much better predictor of NBA success than anything Nogueira has done. Also, Noel is younger and has a better frame. I think Noel will definitely have an easier time gaining strength in the league.

i have not seen a ton of Nogueira, so maybe I am wrong about him, but I don’t see what he does better than Noel, other than possibly stay healthy. Noel is pretty clearly the superior offensive player and I would be surprised if Nogueira ends up being a better defender as well. Is Nogueira way more skilled than I think he is?

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

“I think his 220 frame has a lot to do with the place he was raised. Brazil isn’t necessarily a rich country so maybe he didn’t have a proper diet.”

Bebe has been in Spain affiliated with Estudiantes in Madrid for a number of years now, and has been in Spain since at least 2009. In 2011, he was measured at the Eurocamp at 6′ 10 without shoes, 6′ 11.5″ in shoes, and 218 lbs. Two years later, he came in 6′ 10.5″ without shoes, 7′ 0″ with shoes and 220 lbs. Having played on the ACB club for those past two years, he didn’t gain any weight at an age where bodies fill out.

“Noel can jump higher but does it really matter at their size? Nogueira has an extra 3 inches on his wingspan over Noel and he’s much more agile than him thanks to his soccer days. I honestly think being agile is more important than being athletic when your 7 feet tall.”

For what it is worth, Nogueira’s lane agility time was 11.63. It is not a bad time, but Brandon Davies was 11.22, Colt Iverson was 11.52, Kadji 11.47, Olynyk 11.42, Plumlee 10.89, and Zeller 10.82.

“He played in the ACB which is considered a very good and competitive league. He only averaged 13 minutes a game but I’ve heard it’s hard to get minutes in those leagues and he was a rookie.”

He was with the top Estudiantes club for two seasons. Minutes are a function of the club’s budget to pay players and performance. Being a backup in the ACB is not sign of future NBA greatness. This was a conversation that was had two years ago when Biyombo was under the same circumstances. He was not as good of a player as Gustavo Ayon at that point, which is why Ayon got more minutes, and two years later it is still quite likely Ayon is the better player. One can look at Alex Abrines and argue that given his age and presence of long-time contracted professionals ahead of him that his lack of minutes is beyond his control. Most clubs don’t have the resources of Barca, Real Madrid, CSKA, and the other elites. Terrell Stoglin played right away and led the top league in Greece in scoring. He is only a few months older than Nogueira. Bojan Dubljevic is one year older than Nogueira and played full rotational minutes for Valencia. Jordan Taylor and Joe Ragland were ridden hard by their clubs in their first year of professional play. Nogueira received the minutes he did because he is not strong or skilled, and fouls quite a bit. He can run and jump, and it seems as though that will get him taken rather highly but it does not make him great.

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

“I think his 220 frame has a lot to do with the place he was raised. Brazil isn’t necessarily a rich country so maybe he didn’t have a proper diet.”

Bebe has been in Spain affiliated with Estudiantes in Madrid for a number of years now, and has been in Spain since at least 2009. In 2011, he was measured at the Eurocamp at 6′ 10 without shoes, 6′ 11.5″ in shoes, and 218 lbs. Two years later, he came in 6′ 10.5″ without shoes, 7′ 0″ with shoes and 220 lbs. Having played on the ACB club for those past two years, he didn’t gain any weight at an age where bodies fill out.

“Noel can jump higher but does it really matter at their size? Nogueira has an extra 3 inches on his wingspan over Noel and he’s much more agile than him thanks to his soccer days. I honestly think being agile is more important than being athletic when your 7 feet tall.”

For what it is worth, Nogueira’s lane agility time was 11.63. It is not a bad time, but Brandon Davies was 11.22, Colt Iverson was 11.52, Kadji 11.47, Olynyk 11.42, Plumlee 10.89, and Zeller 10.82.

“He played in the ACB which is considered a very good and competitive league. He only averaged 13 minutes a game but I’ve heard it’s hard to get minutes in those leagues and he was a rookie.”

He was with the top Estudiantes club for two seasons. Minutes are a function of the club’s budget to pay players and performance. Being a backup in the ACB is not sign of future NBA greatness. This was a conversation that was had two years ago when Biyombo was under the same circumstances. He was not as good of a player as Gustavo Ayon at that point, which is why Ayon got more minutes, and two years later it is still quite likely Ayon is the better player. One can look at Alex Abrines and argue that given his age and presence of long-time contracted professionals ahead of him that his lack of minutes is beyond his control. Most clubs don’t have the resources of Barca, Real Madrid, CSKA, and the other elites. Terrell Stoglin played right away and led the top league in Greece in scoring. He is only a few months older than Nogueira. Bojan Dubljevic is one year older than Nogueira and played full rotational minutes for Valencia. Jordan Taylor and Joe Ragland were ridden hard by their clubs in their first year of professional play. Nogueira received the minutes he did because he is not strong or skilled, and fouls quite a bit. He can run and jump, and it seems as though that will get him taken rather highly but it does not make him great.

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

Until the diet part. That was ignorant. But I’be been thinking the same thing about the two players. I don’t know how athletic Lucas is, but I think it’s him being underrated than Noel being overrated.

[ItsRainingNegsParticipant]

Until the diet part. That was ignorant. But I’be been thinking the same thing about the two players. I don’t know how athletic Lucas is, but I think it’s him being underrated than Noel being overrated.

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