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Kyrie Irving or John Wall?

LA12
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Kyrie Irving or John Wall?

In five years, who you got?

Personally I'm taking Wall. He's shown he's a better leader this year, and he was already a better passer, defender and rebounder than Irving. He's improving his jumper, and once that thing is consistent it's game over for whoever Wall plays. Since he's gotten back into his rhythm, he's played like a top ten player in the league in my opinion. Plus he's leading his team to wins, and has made everyone around him better. Just ask Brad Beal

Kyrie's going to be an amazing player, don't get me wrong, but he just doesn't have the athletic gifts Wall does to keep up with him as a defender. We all know Kyrie can't defend a rock, and that's not going to get much better. Wall's got that all around game that can make him the best point guard in the league. Kyrie's everything you want on offense, but his play doesn't necessarily make those around him as good as Wall's does, and I already covered his defense.

In the end, I think both are going to be battling it out for top pure point guard bragging rights in a few years (Westbrook's still a shooting guard in a point guard's body to me or else he'd be right there too)


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Wall................. Only if

Wall.................

Only if that jumpshot keeps improving, if it does it's a wrapppp, he's bigger, faster, quicker and just a better overall athlete than Irving all he needs is the jumpshot, Wall rebounds better, defends better, and averages more assist.

LA12
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I recently posted on Twitter

I recently posted on Twitter that John Wall would be the best point guard in the league in three years. Three years maybe a little too optimistic, maybe more like five years. The replies I received:

"Uncle Drew!"
"I lost all ball respect for you"
"Not even close"

One even tried convincing me that Lillard would be better too, and as a Blazer and Lillard fan, I know Wall has the brighter future. It was also claimed that Irving's the better scorer and that's "more important than everything else" which is why he's better. Last time I checked he only averaged about four less points than Irving. Irving averages about 18 shots per game compared to 15 for Wall, so that's expected.

Not saying Irving isn't a better scorer, he obviously is, but with Wall's improved jump shot I don't think it's that big of a gap anymore. The most absurd part is that just because Irving scores more he's better than Wall...

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We all see the potential in

We all see the potential in Wall.This guy is exciting and i think he knows better than us that his jumpshot and his range have to improve.But not let's get too crazy here.I mean Kyrie is an all-star in his second year in this league.This is Wall's third season and he hasn't made the all-star.And top pg of the league in three years is a long stratch.There are certain steps you have to make to claim that.I want to see him taking his team to the playoffs.Make the All-Star.The 1st team All-NBA.He has a lot to prove and he is moving in the right direction to do so.There is no clear answer to the question to me but if i was starting a franchise and i had to pick between Kyrie or John to make him my face of the franchise that would be John Wall.I see the improvement in his jumpshot but he has to make it even better.It took him a while to figure it out and he has all the tools to be a superstar in this league.It's all up to him now

LA12
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Yeah three years is a big

Yeah three years is a big stretch when I look at it.

The Wizards had a playoff winning percentage with him in the lineup, while Kyrie's Cavs have just continued to slump. I think if Wall were healthy from day one he'd definitely have been an All-Star this year, assuming he played like he did in the second half.

My whole point in this post is that some people don't realize how close the gap has really gotten, and were it not for injuries Wall would probably be ahead right now. As long as that jumper is improving, everything will go well for Wall. And I agree, if I were starting a team I'd take Wall no doubt. His ability to affect a game in more than one way combined with his potential makes him more of a franchise player to me.

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If Wall would have played the

If Wall would have played the entire season, the Wizards would have made the playoffs.

LA12
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Wall elevates those around

Wall elevates those around him. I'll point again to the difference in Brad Beal's play since Wall has returned. Wall's a special talent.

FastAndFurious
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IGO4TW

I see where your coming from but OP said in 5 years, that's along time from now, Kyrie has some good accolades over Wall right now, but Wall has a higher ceiling than Irving in my opinion, and in 5 years I think he will end up the better player.

John Wall first 2 years: 16,8,4

Kyrie Irving first 2 years: 20, 5,3

Not that numbers mean it all, but Wall is only 22 averaging 8 APG for his career so far, with an improved jumper and more knowledge of the game, sky's the limit for him.

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Wall

It's very, very close, but I'm going to go with Wall.

I think this could be somewhat like the CP3/D-Will argument that was happening for a couple years where either could be claimed as the better PG, but if Wall is playing even 90% what he's shown towards the end of the season (jumper, isn't playing selfish, controls his pace/mixes it up) then I think Wall would be my choice.

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The real question...

As a Wiz fan, I hope you guys are right about Wall. I'm amazed by the turnaround in conversations about Wall the past few months. Last fall, everyone was talking about him being a kind of a bust for a number one overall pick. Now it's about him being one of the leagues best pgs.

The real question is, does he get a max deal from the Wiz???

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Rival

This will turn into the new who is better kobe or lebron debate?

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Nah, that's going to be

Nah, that's going to be Durant and Lebron - Kobe and Lebron were similarly far apart in age, so it wasn't a true rivalry, same with Durant and Lebron.

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give me irving. 5 years

give me irving. 5 years right, ok lets mark this. lol thats too long nevermind

omphalos
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Yeah, Kyrie is the better

Yeah, Kyrie is the better scorer, but Wall is the better player IMO.

Kyrie is a great scorer already, that's a given, but his greatest strength (scoring) doesn't escalate with better team-mates, he will get more wins, but his play probably won't improve as a result of playing with better guys, because he doesn't seem to make other people better. He'll get more wins as his team improves, but his skill won't scale up as the players around him do.

Wall on the other hand, has the potential to get much better and play a lot better as better pieces are put around him; he's a great passer, he's not selfish, an excellent defender already, and his natural vision on the court means his playing style won't stifle the growth of other players, and not only will he benefit from better team-mates, but the team-mates will benefit too.

I think Kyrie is somewhat similar to Derrick Rose in that regard, he's a great player, no doubt, but what he can do won't really change with more pieces around him, whereas Wall is a guy you can build around, and get increased value from your roster.

That is to say, the Wizards won't have to break the bank for guys who are established stars, because Wall can help guys who are less valuable play above their contract.

I'm not making a whole lot of sense here in terms of structure, but the end result is that Wall is better than Kyrie in my opinion and is certainly more of a point guard than Irving is.

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John Wall is easily my

John Wall is easily my favorite player but it is very difficult to explain how his jumper is still this inconsistent. That being said he is only 22 and even without a decent jump shot he has the ability to take a game over. His ability to run the floor, get steals, block shots and get to the free throw line have already made the team relevant again. I just cant help but think if he even had an average shot from 10 to 15 feet how unstoppable he could be.

I was very impressed with Beal in the second half of the season. He is more athletic than I first thought and played solid defense. With Wall pushing it on the break all he has to do is pop out to the wing and will have plenty of open 3's. He also showed the ability to come off a screen and pull up.

I can't decide who will be a good fit from this draft though. No one stands out to me as a great fit. Thought for sure we would be a top 3 pick after that depressing 5 and 28 start.

Oh and in a somewhat biased opinion I'll take Wall as the better player in 5 years. He makes everyone around him better as many have already stated.

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If either can stay

If either can stay healthy....
I like John Wall's chances a bit more than Kyrie...
John Wall makes his team better all around when you consider how many wins they added upon his return.

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Had John Wall been healthy

Had John Wall been healthy the entire season, both would have made the All-Star game, so I think it's fair to say that at this point they are about equal. But given Wall's advantage in size, speed, and his ever improving jump-shot, you've got to believe Wall has the best chance to be the best PG in the league of the two, but it all hinges on him remaining healthy and his jump-shot staying consistent.

Shaquille Oatmeal
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Damn, people on this site

Damn, people on this site really love John Wall! To me, there's no doubt that Kyrie's better and is going to continue to be better. If the Cavs had decent pieces around Kyrie and if he'd stayed healthy all year, he'd already be considered easily a top 10, maybe top 5 player--I'm thinking on the level of James Harden. He has the best handles in the league, has an elite jumper (good enough to win the 3 point contest), finishes well around the rim, and is much closer to John Wall as a facilitator than Wall is to Kyrie as a scorer.

The only reason Kyrie doesn't get very many assists is because he has one of the worst offensive rosters in the league around him. Dion Waiters is promising, but far from consistent. Other than that, if your next best offensive option is Anderson Varejao (who's been hurt basically all year), that's not saying much for the team's overall talent. John Wall, on the other hand, has a really good roster around him. The Wizards have been impressive since Wall's been back, but don't forget, many (if not most) people had the Wizards as a playoff team at the beginning of the year--assuming everyone was healthy. A starting lineup of Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, and Okafor should easily be a playoff team in the East. So, saying that the Wizards have been playing playoff-level basketball since Wall came back really wouldn't be that impressive if they hadn't been so horrible when he was hurt. That's basically what they were expected to do.

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thanks for the input. thought

thanks for the input. thought i was alone in here. i know those guys bet that the wizards will make playoffs assuming all are healthy, so if that's the expected then whats impressive? and talking about age, kyrie just turned 21 while wall will turn 23 soon. so as far as improvement goes i think kyrie has the bigger room.
wall has the size advantage physically but whose got the better skills? even if kyrie is a shoot first point guard i wouldn't mind that, he has great feel of the game. plus who will he pass to..
both teams came from the bottom its natural that they should improve the winning section after some time hee

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Kyrie

I don't understand why people think Kyrie doesn't know how to pass... he is an excellent passer with an amazing basketball IQ. He can make every pass in the book... just wait till the supporting cast matures and improves. He will average 8-10 assists no problem.

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i really cant believe how

i really cant believe how everyones tune changed in the matter of 2 months.. SMH! screw all you bandwgaon fans that are just looking at stats. im not bashing your opinion i just dont believe you guys were saying this 2 months ago. now that john wall ONLY played 2 months, hes the next best thing. hes been ballin, dont get me wrong, but c'mon guys. with that being said im taking kyrie irving by a landslide.

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Kyrie

Everyone keep saying if Wall improves his jumpshot then he will be better but you can use "if" with any player in the league and that can make them a better player. Kyrie doesnt really have any "ifs" about his game. He does everything well for a 21 year old. He averages 5 assist a game with a bad supporting cast. Wall has a decent supporting cast to Nene, Okafor, Beal, and Ariza. The only issue with Kyrie is can he stay healthy.

Also in 5 years what happens when Wall starts losing some of his speed? Then what? Kyrie doesnt play a lighting speed but he crafty as hell. Kyrie will be the better player

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Err

1)Kyrie's "If" is his defense. And it's pretty obvious he doesn't have the defensive potential of Wall.

2) Wall has already improved his jumpshot, I've seen it with my own eyes. Hence the recent success of him and the Wiz.

3) He is also very crafty around the rim... You think he can't learn to be craftier??

4) He won't be losing much speed at 27 years old lol, chances are he will have plenty and know how to use it a lot better.

Having said that I don't know who to take, I don't really care who will be better to be honest, they're both going to be incredible.

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hmph

Kyrie averages same amount steals as Wall (1.5 to 1.3) so the "defensive potential" are the same. Neither are ball hawks or ball stoppers. The play passing lanes well thats it.

When I saw crafty I was talking about losing a defender. Right now he just blows by ppl and doesnt really have mves. And if he gets craftier dont you think Kyrie will be doing the same (even at his advance state of creating space). Kyrie also has shown he can post defenders.

But in all your right. They both are going to amazing to watch so it doesnt matter for the most part.

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Just wanted to throw this in:

Just because you get steals numbers doesn't make you a great defender - I'm talking about using size and length to play defense not just get steals. Wall simply has more size and length to go with the quickness. That's where I see the greater potential, especially as he's more dedicated at the defensive end by this point.

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Pretty sure that 8 seed would

Pretty sure that 8 seed would be the Wizards if Wall was healthy.

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For sure. Even after losing

For sure. Even after losing the last 6 games of the year if you average out the record with Wall for the whole season they would go 40-42, so it's possible they could've even been the 7 seed.

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Just because Kyrie averages

Just because Kyrie averages similar steal numbers doesn't mean that he is just as good as a defender as Wall. Kyrie still is average (not horrible as many make it out to be) at defense and still has to improve there imo.

Another thing, Kyrie's supporting cast is basically a bunch of D-Leaguers so I'm not going to penalize him for having average assist stats. If you actually watch his games he is a phenomenal passer. I've also noticed that I think Kyrie has to mature. The constant losing seems to be affecting his attitude especially since the Cavs organization basically built this team to make sure they lose so they can get another good draft pick.

Both are going to be great PG's but gun to my head in the playoffs, I would want Kyrie.

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Kyrie

Agreed... another major factor that isn't being taken into account is Kyrie's excellent closing ability. You can just run ISO for him the last 2 minutes of the game and he will get you buckets... not sure if you will ever be able to say that for Wall.

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Ok

I can't believe how many people are saying Wall over Kyrie! See who gets more love for the USA squad for the next several year. Size, speed, and athleticism are great but not everything. I have never really liked Wall's overall feel for the game. He still doesn't play with any pace to his game. He really impressed this year and changed my thinking on him,and both are great players, but it is Kyrie for sure. Kyrie is already a Top 5 PG in this league, Wall just on the outside.

Most people were going gaga over Kyrie in the begging of the year, Seth Davis said he's already the best PG in the NBA! People have a short memory and are dazzled by speed/athleticism. Also, I don't see Wall trying to go at Kobe. He can't even handle Ricky Ledo!

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The one thing I seem to look

The one thing I seem to look at is Killer Instinct. Seems to me that Kyrie has that instinct and isn't afraid to go at anyone. The way he lit up the Thunder this year and his many buzzer beaters. Needs to work on his defense but he's already offensively polished. If he has a better supporting cast he would average more assists than he does now. Wall is really really good, and I love his athleticism but that seems to be his only advantage of Kyrie and his defense.

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