[OrangeJuiceJonesParticipant]

I’m not trying to start anything. I just think that this video is very interesting. It’s pretty long, but you’ll get the idea after 2 or 3 minutes.

[tdc320Participant]

Notice how in Lebron/Kobe era there are alot more wide open dunk/lay ups. Jordan era damn near every shot is contested.

[tdc320Participant]

Notice how in Lebron/Kobe era there are alot more wide open dunk/lay ups. Jordan era damn near every shot is contested.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Michael Jordan, going up against teams with more legitimate low post defensive threats, getting fouled. OK, that was not all of it, but it definitely did point out how radically zone defense has changed NBA defense. It has become more difficult to have that "man in the middle", the defensive threats that were Patrick Ewing, Shaquille O’Neal and Alonzo Mourning. But, at the same time, you had no choice but to play defense man to man, something Michael thrived on. I guess the way teams play has also changed accordingly, as it is now much more of a premium to maybe have a Center that can stretch the defense, which has lowered the value of traditional slow footed bigs that stood underneath the basket clogging the lane on defense. It was harder for Michael to get a clean drive to the basket, but at the same time there was so little you could do to stop him until he had the ball. It was a lot more difficult in other words to set up a planned scheme to stop Michael, which might have been different had Michael gone up against a zone defense. Zone defense I think has put a big premium on speed, and while no team is known for playing zone exclusively, every team has incorporated it to an extent to help them stop certain teams. It is funny, because you look back and they actually attempted more FT’s back than they do now. I know everyone likes to glorify there era, but I still think basketball is a tremendously physical game, as much as people like saying "well that wouldn’t have been a foul back than." Chances are, it is not as radically different as you remember it. I may be alone, but I think the old defensive rules actually gave Michael Jordan more of an advantage than he might have today. Mike would still get his, no doubt, but to say he would be averaging much more than he already did, well, you can think that, just might not have happened that way.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Michael Jordan, going up against teams with more legitimate low post defensive threats, getting fouled. OK, that was not all of it, but it definitely did point out how radically zone defense has changed NBA defense. It has become more difficult to have that "man in the middle", the defensive threats that were Patrick Ewing, Shaquille O’Neal and Alonzo Mourning. But, at the same time, you had no choice but to play defense man to man, something Michael thrived on. I guess the way teams play has also changed accordingly, as it is now much more of a premium to maybe have a Center that can stretch the defense, which has lowered the value of traditional slow footed bigs that stood underneath the basket clogging the lane on defense. It was harder for Michael to get a clean drive to the basket, but at the same time there was so little you could do to stop him until he had the ball. It was a lot more difficult in other words to set up a planned scheme to stop Michael, which might have been different had Michael gone up against a zone defense. Zone defense I think has put a big premium on speed, and while no team is known for playing zone exclusively, every team has incorporated it to an extent to help them stop certain teams. It is funny, because you look back and they actually attempted more FT’s back than they do now. I know everyone likes to glorify there era, but I still think basketball is a tremendously physical game, as much as people like saying "well that wouldn’t have been a foul back than." Chances are, it is not as radically different as you remember it. I may be alone, but I think the old defensive rules actually gave Michael Jordan more of an advantage than he might have today. Mike would still get his, no doubt, but to say he would be averaging much more than he already did, well, you can think that, just might not have happened that way.

[llperez]

lol at a 10 minute video representing an enitre era’s defense. Just youtub.e a game or find an old nba game on nba.tv. Defense is better today.

[llperez]

lol at a 10 minute video representing an enitre era’s defense. Just youtub.e a game or find an old nba game on nba.tv. Defense is better today.

[dmo21Participant]

So is Jordan less of a defender because he was allowed to hand check, spend 3 seconds in the key, and was allowed more physical play? Each sport has rules and gameplays that change with the years, it will always be like that.

[dmo21Participant]

So is Jordan less of a defender because he was allowed to hand check, spend 3 seconds in the key, and was allowed more physical play? Each sport has rules and gameplays that change with the years, it will always be like that.

[llperez]

one of the biggest reasons there are more lanes for driving is that the three point shooting is way better today so you cant help of perimiter guys as much. In the past, everyone tried to play physical in the paint and many sf’s were basically pf’s with limited range. SO the game was a lot more physical in the paint. Now with so many better three point shooters you cant do that as much.

[llperez]

one of the biggest reasons there are more lanes for driving is that the three point shooting is way better today so you cant help of perimiter guys as much. In the past, everyone tried to play physical in the paint and many sf’s were basically pf’s with limited range. SO the game was a lot more physical in the paint. Now with so many better three point shooters you cant do that as much.

[goneParticipant]

Most of it is just bad defesnive rotations and coaches not focusing on defense as much as they do offesense but there are exceptions like the championship spur teams and the celtics of the last 4 years.

[goneParticipant]

Most of it is just bad defesnive rotations and coaches not focusing on defense as much as they do offesense but there are exceptions like the championship spur teams and the celtics of the last 4 years.

[Sonny RedParticipant]

I think the ability to hand check is the biggest difference. Jordan always used to like to have his forearm on a guy when he was guardng him. He also would was known for smacking away the guys arm when it was done to him. Big guys are more likely to play away from the basket now too, with all the three point shooting that goes on.

[Sonny RedParticipant]

I think the ability to hand check is the biggest difference. Jordan always used to like to have his forearm on a guy when he was guardng him. He also would was known for smacking away the guys arm when it was done to him. Big guys are more likely to play away from the basket now too, with all the three point shooting that goes on.

[apb540Participant]

The defense today is definitely worse than the Jordan era BUT defense still wins championships!  Pistons, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics have all been dominant defensive teams and what do you know, they all won championships this decade. 

[apb540Participant]

The defense today is definitely worse than the Jordan era BUT defense still wins championships!  Pistons, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics have all been dominant defensive teams and what do you know, they all won championships this decade. 

[apb540Participant]

I kind of wish they would bring that back.  Every single person who loves to play basketball uses the hand check quite regularly.  Plus everyone I know who doesn’t like the NBA (and that’s like 97% of the people I know) always bitch about the lack of defensive intensity and too many touch fouls.  Bringing back defense could actually revitalize the NBA. 

[apb540Participant]

I kind of wish they would bring that back.  Every single person who loves to play basketball uses the hand check quite regularly.  Plus everyone I know who doesn’t like the NBA (and that’s like 97% of the people I know) always bitch about the lack of defensive intensity and too many touch fouls.  Bringing back defense could actually revitalize the NBA. 

[llperez]

heres some stats i just got off nba-referance.com about the league scoring average. It stopsin 2007 but goes all the way back.

2007……..99
2006………97
2005……..97
2004…….93
2003……..95
2002………96
2001……….95
2000………98
1999………92 (ugly lockout season with no preseason)
1998………96
1997………97
1996………100
1995………101
1994………102
1993………105
1992………105
1991………106
1990……….107
1989……….109
1988……….108
1987………..110
1986………..110
1985………..111
1984………..110

as you can see, less scoring in “lebron’s era” as oppossed to “jordans era”. Unless you think thats simply becasue players were more talneted back then, then what does this tell you? Its not rocket science, just go back and watch the games. Lots of bad defensive teams. Lots of wings that would be defensive liabilities in todays game. Lots of stiff 7 foters who could barely get up and down the court which resulted in way more fast break opportunities. They did allow for more contact back then. But the hand checking rule is really overblown as to how much of an impact it had. You still werent allowed to puch or shoves guys dribbling the ball. plus guys are just qicker today meaning its harder to put your hands on aguy and not get beat off the dribble.

I also find it funny that the video posted by the ts, the very first grapphic it shows that the pau and fisher are out of defensive position becasue they are trying to avoid a defensive 3 seconds. The person who made the video is trying to imply that the new defensive 3 second rule has made it harder for defenses. BUt the nba has always had the defensive 3 second rule. You can look it up. I believe it might have been the 60’s or early 70s when they made a rule change saying that you could not gaurd a certain areaof the court for more then 3 seconds without picking up a man. SO that includes the 3 cond in the paint rule which was often called since as long as ive been watching.

[llperez]

heres some stats i just got off nba-referance.com about the league scoring average. It stopsin 2007 but goes all the way back.

2007……..99
2006………97
2005……..97
2004…….93
2003……..95
2002………96
2001……….95
2000………98
1999………92 (ugly lockout season with no preseason)
1998………96
1997………97
1996………100
1995………101
1994………102
1993………105
1992………105
1991………106
1990……….107
1989……….109
1988……….108
1987………..110
1986………..110
1985………..111
1984………..110

as you can see, less scoring in “lebron’s era” as oppossed to “jordans era”. Unless you think thats simply becasue players were more talneted back then, then what does this tell you? Its not rocket science, just go back and watch the games. Lots of bad defensive teams. Lots of wings that would be defensive liabilities in todays game. Lots of stiff 7 foters who could barely get up and down the court which resulted in way more fast break opportunities. They did allow for more contact back then. But the hand checking rule is really overblown as to how much of an impact it had. You still werent allowed to puch or shoves guys dribbling the ball. plus guys are just qicker today meaning its harder to put your hands on aguy and not get beat off the dribble.

I also find it funny that the video posted by the ts, the very first grapphic it shows that the pau and fisher are out of defensive position becasue they are trying to avoid a defensive 3 seconds. The person who made the video is trying to imply that the new defensive 3 second rule has made it harder for defenses. BUt the nba has always had the defensive 3 second rule. You can look it up. I believe it might have been the 60’s or early 70s when they made a rule change saying that you could not gaurd a certain areaof the court for more then 3 seconds without picking up a man. SO that includes the 3 cond in the paint rule which was often called since as long as ive been watching.

[dmo21Participant]

I don’t think the NBA will ever bring back the hand checking rule cause that means there will be more defense played and guys will be getting stopped at the perimeter, which decreases on offense and especially big dunks. The NBA fan base grows when there is more scoring and when their are more high light reel plays (which lack defense, usually). Yes, true basketball fans want to see defense, but there isnt enough true fans in the world to pay the salaries of the NBA, so onward goes offensive and flashy basketball..

[dmo21Participant]

I don’t think the NBA will ever bring back the hand checking rule cause that means there will be more defense played and guys will be getting stopped at the perimeter, which decreases on offense and especially big dunks. The NBA fan base grows when there is more scoring and when their are more high light reel plays (which lack defense, usually). Yes, true basketball fans want to see defense, but there isnt enough true fans in the world to pay the salaries of the NBA, so onward goes offensive and flashy basketball..

[llperez]

also they shot a higher fg% back then too. From 1998 to 2007, the league average on fg% has been lower then 46% every year. Before 1998, it was above 46% every single year. SO teams scored more and shot better percentages back then. Must be all that crazy lock down defense they played.

[llperez]

also they shot a higher fg% back then too. From 1998 to 2007, the league average on fg% has been lower then 46% every year. Before 1998, it was above 46% every single year. SO teams scored more and shot better percentages back then. Must be all that crazy lock down defense they played.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

Defense today is a lot softer than it was in the 80’s and 90’s.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

Defense today is a lot softer than it was in the 80’s and 90’s.

[apb540Participant]

Or offenses were just more efficient cuz it was more of a team game and not so isolation based. 

[apb540Participant]

Or offenses were just more efficient cuz it was more of a team game and not so isolation based. 

[llperez]

The early to mid 90’s was the most isolation i have ever seen by a wide margin. Teams always just ran the two man game where one big would either post up or set a screen with his gaurd on his side the court and no one else moving. The NBA tried to alleviate the amount of iso by adding the 5 second back down rule as well as allowing zone defense to try and get more team ball movement on offense to break down defenses.

[llperez]

The early to mid 90’s was the most isolation i have ever seen by a wide margin. Teams always just ran the two man game where one big would either post up or set a screen with his gaurd on his side the court and no one else moving. The NBA tried to alleviate the amount of iso by adding the 5 second back down rule as well as allowing zone defense to try and get more team ball movement on offense to break down defenses.

[Sonny RedParticipant]

Teams used to get a lot more easier baskets in the 80’s and 90’s from fastbreaks. That is something I miss in todays game, players now can’t run a 3on 1 fastbreak like they used to, remember how Magic would run them with the Lakers?

[Sonny RedParticipant]

Teams used to get a lot more easier baskets in the 80’s and 90’s from fastbreaks. That is something I miss in todays game, players now can’t run a 3on 1 fastbreak like they used to, remember how Magic would run them with the Lakers?

[llperez]

yeah, a lot more fast breaks nad easy baskets back then.

[llperez]

yeah, a lot more fast breaks nad easy baskets back then.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I don’t know if the defense is better now than it was back then, but I just feel like the game was more physical in the past… Not only that, I feel like the players competed more on the defensive end. I mean, I see a lot of pathetic defense today and just an overall lack of general defensive awareness. It’s kind of sad to be honest.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I don’t know if the defense is better now than it was back then, but I just feel like the game was more physical in the past… Not only that, I feel like the players competed more on the defensive end. I mean, I see a lot of pathetic defense today and just an overall lack of general defensive awareness. It’s kind of sad to be honest.

[Michael.S.Participant]

I agree with llperez on just about everything.

[Michael.S.Participant]

I agree with llperez on just about everything.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Could part of the reason FG% is lower today be due to the fact a lot more three-pointers are attempted today than in the past? I mean, mid-range jumpshots have basically disappeared.

And part of the reason I think they scored more in the past is because the game was played a little faster and there were more possessions.

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Could part of the reason FG% is lower today be due to the fact a lot more three-pointers are attempted today than in the past? I mean, mid-range jumpshots have basically disappeared.

And part of the reason I think they scored more in the past is because the game was played a little faster and there were more possessions.

 

 

[JJeff6Participant]

This is a biased video, showing only the bad defensive moments of this era, as when they show michaels era. they show all of the good defensive moments.  really not much you can get from this video, if anything at all.

[JJeff6Participant]

This is a biased video, showing only the bad defensive moments of this era, as when they show michaels era. they show all of the good defensive moments.  really not much you can get from this video, if anything at all.

[Author]

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