[Dazzling Dunks and Basketball BloopersParticipant]

 Kidd rookie year stats 33.8 mpg 11.7 ppg 5.4 rpg 7.7 apg 1.9 spg 38.5 FG 27.2 3PT 69.8 FT 47.1 TS% 3.2 TO

Ball 34.2 mpg 10.2 ppg 6.9 rpg 7.2 apg 1.7 spg 0.8 bpg 36 FG 30.5 3PT 45.1 FT 44.4 TS % 2.6 TO

Just viewing from a strictly impartial point of view these numbers are pretty comparable. Ball actually rebounded the ball better than Kidd as a rookie, shot better from 3 on higher volume, and had a lower A/TO ratio. The huge difference between the 2 was durability (Kidd played 79 games to balls 51) and Kidd got to the ft line at a much higher rate and shot a much higher percentage. I was actually surprised ball struggled from the line as much as he did.

There are people who will view balls rookie season as a disappointment just based on the absurd expectations that were created for him. However, I think he is basically right on track at this point. You have to remember he was a full year younger than Kidd when he came into the league. If he can continue to add strength, work on developing his shot and fix his ft woes, for him to develop into a Kidd type player doesn’t seem out of the question. I’ll be the first to admit I have questions about him, but I think it’s way too early to make any definitive judgements at this point.

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Playing with Lebron should free up his shot alot more and allow him to take shots in rythm but that free throw percentage is just inexcusable. He shot 70% in college from the line and 41% from a closer 3pt line. He’ll get a chance to learn from Rondo who has similar struggles as far as mid range and shooting motions go. Rondo has this unexplainable abillity to suck in defences that are playing him for the drive, blow by them, finish at the rim, create passing lanes off the dribble and just read defensive schemes perfectly. He also brings the toughness Ball lacks.

[ChoppyParticipant]

 I’ve been thinking this for a while, and it’ll probably get me negs, but the whole narrative of LeBron makes players around him better – where does it come from? I see star players having to sacrifice their games to fit in around LeBron (Love, Irving, etc). Perhaps this wasn’t always the case, but I’d suggest LeBron today doesn’t make the players around him better. So when you say playing with LeBron should help Ball take shots in rhythm, I’m not so sure. LeBron most likely will run the team, relegating Ball to a more off the ball role. So unless Ball enjoys the ball being taken out of his hands and he excels as a spot up shooter, I’m not sure LeBron will help his game at all. 

[OllstarParticipant]

It’s a interesting point of view but not one I agree with. Still you at least explained yourself so don’t see why people would neg you for your opinion.

 

In Wade’s 4 seasons with Lebron in Miami he shot over 50% 3 times and .497 once. He never averaged over 50% from the feild in any other season. His stats took a hit but he became more efficient. 

 

Let’s not forget guys like boobie gibson, Rio and delly who made bank by being the perfect 1 to LBJ.

 

[Pistol Pete. The PelicanParticipant]

 http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23684417/kevin-pelton-weekly-mailbag-does-lebron-james-make-teammates-better

Lebron makes role players/shooters better, ball dominant players/stars suffer.

 

[Jr. ROXASParticipant]

First of all, Rio was already super solid as a rookie before Bron got there. I’d even argue he played better without Bron. Also, do people really believe Bron made Delly or something? Delly made bank by being Delly, and was aided by Kyrie’s injury in the finals, where he got all the guard minutes playing the best PG in the world in the biggest stage and took advantage of it. And so, there are players who played well him, but there are also a bunch who didn’t and its unfair to not mention those others. 

 

Crowder had a mid-season revival playing with the Jazz rather than with the Cavs where he just stands in the corner waiting for Bron to give him the ball. Both Bosh and Love struggled from Bron’s ball-dominant offense. Dion Waiters played much better with the Thunder and had a career revival with the Heat after the Cavs. IT just couldn’t find a rythm playing with Lebron but when traded to the Lakers, was suddenley play well and efficient.

 

 

[BigChamp12Participant]

 I strongly disagree with the notion that Lebron hinders players in anyway. I think it is very inaccurate to even suggest that. No player or coach has ever said that.In fact, they all say the complete opposite. Chris Bosh only stated that it was difficult to adjust to being the 3rd option and playing off the ball when he usually had the ball in Toronto. He also stated his game improved and expanded while in Miami wih Lebron. His fg percentage went up and he expanded his game and became a reliable 3pt shooter.

Kevin Love’s game improved as well. He became a better shooter and was allowed to be the player he wanted to be. He himself is on record saying how great it is to play with Lebron and how much it helps his game. Kevin Love decided to lose weight and focus more on shooting because he wanted to play more on the wing. He has stated several times he prefers to play outside than to post up. Why is him being relegated to a jump shooter always used to slight Lebron?

I see someone said Kyrie’s game suffered because of Lebron and I’m dumbfounded by that. Kyrie’s numbers improved while Lebron was there. He had never even played in a meaningful game, same as Love. Lebron coming to Cleveland was one of the best things that happened to Kyrie. He had the ball in his hands more than Lebron and also led the team in shot attempts. 

Even with Jae Crowder.. He averaged 8pts on 42% shooting in 25mpg. He took 7 shots. In Utah he averaged 11pts on 39% in 27mpg. He toook 10 shots. He didn’t play better. Took more shots, played more minutes, shot a worse percentage. It was only perceived as him playing better because Utah was winning and the Cavs were in turmoil while he was there. Different things have to be taken in to account. Also, when you’re playing with the best player in the world the pressure is massive and everyone can’t handle it. 

IT was hurt in Cleveland and just trying to put it back together. Even with that being said his numbers were damn near identical in LA and Cleveland. Why even suggest that he struggled because of Lebron? Smh

People too often associate a drop in points as a bad thing. There is always  going to be a drop in points when you go from being a 1st option to a 2nd or 3rd option, especially if you go from a lottery team to a title contender. That doesn’t mean, your game didn’t improve. 

 

 

 

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 I thought he had a decent rookie year, could of played with more passion..The reason why people shh on his name is because of the expecations his dad put on him. 

De’Aaron Fox put up 11, 4, and 2 and you don’t hear anyone saying bad stuff about him. 

He’ll do better this season with Bron. 

 

 

[KIP BallerParticipant]

 Offensively Ball is on track to have a solid career. The biggest difference from Ball and Kidd is that Kidd was one of the best defensive guards in the league while also being the top PG. Will Ball ever become that? I doubt it. 

[MopgrassParticipant]

 Ball was a top 5 PG on defense last year. He’s no slouch there. 

[EndlessknightParticipant]

By what metric (Just curious)

[Evan_MilbergParticipant]

Yikes. I don’t think I realized how bad Lonzo was from the FT line last year. That’s worse than every season Shaq had at the line except for 06–07. Forget a jump shot – dude needs to get his FT game in order. That could be a liability for the Lakers in close games. 

The rest of his stat line looks pretty good compared to Kidd, though. I’m curious to see how playing with LeBron is going to impact his game. LeBron’s never really played with anyone like Lonzo, so will their chemistry be similar to CP3/Harden, will LeBron’s on-ball dominance force Lonzo to play more off the ball, or will LeBron play like a traditional SF and let Lonzo be the primary ball-handler? 

 

[markfitz14Participant]

I wonder what it would be like to see Lebron not handle the ball and just look to shoot. It would be cool if Lonzo di a lot of the ball handling. But I think Lebron will still be him and want the ball in his hand at the top of the key playing QB calling the plays. 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 Quit disrespecting Lonzo with the Kidd comparison. Man the Lonzo hate is real.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 I agree that Lonzo had a solid Rookie season & the expectations put on him by his crazy dad AND Magic were ridiculous 

But I saw Jason Kidd in High School, at U of Cal & in the Pro’s & Lonzo & J Kidd are VERY Diff players 

This does Not mean that Lonzo wont grow into a Great player – Lonzo’s size, inate passing ability, floor generalship & leadership made him an elite prospect & can make him a potentially great NBA point guard 

But J. Kidd was one of the single Most aggressive Point Guard’s the NBA has Ever seen – Lonzo shot 40% from 3pt range in college – the fear w/ Lonzo was that is unorthodox release would make it impossible to get his shot off fluidly in the pro’s against lightning quick defenders. But Lonzo CAN shoot — J Kidd could NEVER shoot at ANY level

But what Kidd did have that Lonzo lacks is a Freak show 1st step that even in a Physical handcheck NBA gave Kidd the ability to ATTACK anyone off the Drizzible – & he DID from the 1st day he hit the NBA Kidd was Busting MF’ers off the dribble Non stop! 

Kidd’s ability to penetrate wreaked Havoc on NBA defenses & his great vision in the half court & in transition allowed him to hit wide open teammates when the Defense collapsed to adjust to his penetration 

Lonzo is Great in transition but he NEVER penetrates in the 1/2 court b/c he lacks that 1st step quickness – prob b/c at 6’6” 210 lbs Lonzo is so big (BTW this is why Ben Simmons is Such a Freak b/c at 6’10” 250 Simmons Does have that elite 1st step) —- Lonzo has other skills but getting in the lane off the dribble is not one of them & this is what Kidd was Famous for so I do not understand these comparisons – 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

 The way they are similar:

Both are willing passers,High I.Q,play respectable defense,rebound reasonable well for a P.G.

However where they differ Kidd was more agrees at going to the cup,had some sligh better shooting mechanincs and was more filled out in size earlier.

vs 

Ball: Has a higher likelihood of hitting a 3 earlier in his career,may have some mid game/float game and could close the gap on the close game if he is agressive this season.

I am super interested to see if Lebron allows Ball to be Ball and Lebron takes more of a secondary ball handling role and more of a scoring role this year or does he do cleveland Lebron and force Ball to either play sudo SG or that he gets traded for a big piece either by the deadline or training camp..

 

 

 

 

 

[HitsterParticipant]

Interesting stats – I thought that Kidd’s first year stats would have been higher than they were as he was co ROY with Grant Hill!

Also the dynamic of how Lonzo plays with LBJ as regards ball handling will be interesting before you even consider Rondo on court as well?

How would LBJ have been if say he’d have teamed up with J-Kidd in say 2008?

[Author]

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