This topic contains 8 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar SwatLakeCity 12 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #29619
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    JMIKE is a Grizz fan
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    Can anyone post this up please. Thank you

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  • #537777
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    chevilicous
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    The only thing Ric Bucher and Chris Broussard like to do more than report on the NBA is argue about the NBA. So we decided to combine those two skills for Insider’s weekly One-on-One series, in which they’ll debate the hottest topics in the association.

     

     

    Question: Should the Memphis Grizzlies trade Rudy Gay?

     

     

    BUCHER: The Memphis Grizzlies knocked off the top-seeded San Antonio Spurs and pushed the Oklahoma City Thunder to seven games in the conference semifinals, all without their second-highest-paid player and second-leading scorer, Rudy Gay, who had season-ending shoulder surgery in late March.

     

     

    While a number of opposing GMs are convinced the Grizzlies will put Gay on the market to lighten their payroll, because they did so well without him and need to re-sign two key free agents, Marc Gasol and Shane Battier, owner Michael Heisley has said he has no intention of moving Gay. The question is, would they be better served to keep him or not? I believe there’s a reason the team found its stride after Gay got injured and that it should look to move him.

     

     


     

     

    BROUSSARD: I think the Grizzlies should try to make it work with Gay. He’s too talented to move without at least giving him a try. While they had a terrific playoff run, they are far from a complete team, far from a team that can just get rid of a guy like Gay without seeing if he can fit in first. The major weakness of the Grizzlies was their inability to hit 3-pointers, and Gay is one of their better long-range shooters. That, combined with his midrange game and scoring ability off the drive, should only make Memphis better — if he makes an effort to fit into its inside-out game rather than be a ball stopper. Gay came out of a strong system at UConn, so I believe he can fit in. At the very least, the Griz should give him a chance.

     

     


     

     

    RB: On paper, I agree that Gay provides a piece that was missing in the Grizzlies’ playoff arsenal: namely, a guy who can create his own shot with a game on the line. And my suggestion that they move him is based on the presumption that they’re going to get a similarly talented player back. Who that player would be is a big factor in this.

     

     

    But let’s face it, there were massive chemistry issues with the Grizzlies that were holding them back, issues that were resolved with the injury to Gay and the acquisition of Shane Battier. I would like to believe that Rudy saw how successful the team was without him and would be willing to change how he plays, to commit more effort on defense, stop taking tough shots and move the ball quicker. I would have more confidence that that could happen if he’d found a way to be more effective incorporating his talents with Team USA.

     

     

    The fact is Andre Iguodala, who doesn’t have the same pure talent, made the exact transformation both last summer and this season that Gay needs to make. The tricky part, as I see it, is that there is obviously a tremendous amount of interest in Gay and the market may never be better than it is right now. The suitors for him now may not have the cap room to acquire him under the next CBA, or the same inclination to trade for him if the Grizzlies’ experiment in bringing him back doesn’t work.

     

     


     

     

    CB: At one time I thought a Gay-for-Iguodala trade would be a good idea — for both the Grizzlies and the Sixers. But what you like to call "a transformation" was really regression. Fact is that while Iguodala is wildly athletic and versatile, he’s not skilled enough to be a No. 1 or No. 2 scorer on a deep playoff team. He’s now a role player — a valuable and versatile one, to be sure, but he has become a better, glorified version of Sam Young.

     

     

    My point is that the Griz already have good role players, including Battier. What they need now is a bona fide perimeter scorer who can give them 20 points a night. That’s Gay. Gay was a 40 percent 3-point shooter this year! Imagine if he had played in that series against OKC. He would have opened up the post for Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol and left OKC with too many poisons to pick from.

     

    Gay shoots only 16 times a game. It’s not like he’s a volume shooter. He’s efficient and a good rebounder, as well. Watching the Griz do it without him will only make him want to fit into Lionel Hollins’ new system. OK, he may drop to 18 points per game and be the second-leading scorer to Randolph. But by bringing his unique skill set to Memphis and helping the Griz become legitimate contenders, he’ll get more love, respect and accolades than he ever would as a 22-point scorer on a lottery team, and I think Rudy’s smart enough to realize that. Memphis needs to keep him.

     

     


     

     

    RB: You are, to this point, the only person I know who views how Iguodala played last season as a regression. He made the 76ers collectively better by putting more into defense and becoming immensely more efficient on offense. He was an all-defensive selection (second team) for the first time in his career and Doug Collins, who does not hand out compliments gratuitously, thought he deserved more defensive player of the year consideration than he received. He also was far more efficient with the ball, as his career-high assist-to-turnover ratio reflected.

     

     

    That’s the "regression" Rudy needs to experience if he’s going to improve this Memphis team and not set it back. And how can you say he’s not a volume shooter? He averaged the most shots on his team and was among the top 20 in the league in shots taken, yet was 65th in points produced per shot. Perhaps most important, the Grizzlies won when he shot less last season. An opposing player told me they knew they could beat the Grizzlies by forcing Rudy (and Zach) into bad shots because they would still take them.

     

     

    For Rudy’s and the Grizzlies’ sake, I’d love to see him realize it’s incumbent upon him now to change, but why didn’t he accept that last season before he got hurt? Why didn’t he learn the same lesson about how to win that every other guy who played on Team USA in Istanbul did? I hate to be the curmudgeon on this; I prefer believing guys will evolve and mature. But don’t tell me what he could provide if he changed — heck, we all know that. And don’t tell me about what he’d reap by making the transformation — we all know that, too. Just tell me why I should believe that Rudy has it in him to change, one thing he’s done previously that suggests he’s capable of being a different guy. Because that’s one thing that is not debatable: Rudy has to come back with a different mindset and a different game if he’s going to make the Grizzlies better than they were without him.

     

     


     

     

    CB: First of all, let’s stop acting as if Philadelphia made some great improvement. The Sixers were 41-41, same as they were two years ago, before Iguodala made his "transformation." That year, he averaged 19 points on 47 percent shooting, numbers far more befitting of an $80 million man than the 14 points and 44 percent shooting he put up this season. I know Andre Miller was there two years ago, but Elton Brand was hurt. The presence of a rejuvenated Brand plus the improvement of Jrue Holiday more than make up for the loss of Miller. My point is that you act as if Iguodala’s "transformation" led to some vast improvement when they’re actually the same mediocre squad they were with a "different" Iguodala. Just shows how bad they were under Eddie Jordan. But I digress …

     

     

    Rudy Gay is 24 years old and a veteran of five seasons. Who are you to write his epitaph? To relegate him to the status of a stuck-in-his-ways old fogey? People thought Paul Pierce couldn’t change either, that he wouldn’t want to share the ball with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. How’d that prediction work? Fact is, Rudy has no choice. The entire world has seen what ball movement and teamwork has done for the Grizzlies. Why wouldn’t he conform and fit in? He’s got the skill set to do so and still get his points.

     

     

    And you know what? If it doesn’t work, if Gay can’t adjust or the chemistry just isn’t there, then they can trade him. But to do so before the season, before even giving it a try, would be shortsighted and a mistake.

     

     


     

     

    RB: What a crazy argument: Iguodala shouldn’t adjust his game to make the team better because A) he’s making $80 million and should keep his individual stats high to justify that money, and B) because they were only a .500 team, the sacrifices he made weren’t all that important. If Rudy Gay has the same attitude, the Grizzlies are sunk.

     

     

    And how are you going to make a comparison to a Sixers team two years ago when there are seven different faces on the roster? No one — I mean, no one — was worried about Pierce sharing the ball with KG and Allen. He’d already done so with Antoine Walker, Ricky Davis, Wally Szczerbiak and a host of other guys not nearly as talented.

     

     

    That’s what concerns me about Rudy: he’s had talent around him and still been stuck on taking bad shots even when it has been counterproductive. I would wholeheartedly support giving Rudy a chance to prove he’s seen the light if we weren’t looking at a league about to severely crimp player movement with a new collective bargaining agreement, and if teams weren’t eager to make a deal now before that happens. If the Grizzlies sign back Marc Gasol and Shane Battier, they will have one of the fattest payrolls in one of the smallest markets. Do they move Gay, maintain their cap flexibility and collect some future talent — Derrick Williams, for example, with the No. 2 pick — or do they hang their hat on Gay being a changed man and thereby making the team a championship contender? From what history has taught us, I’d say they’re better served keeping their options open.

     

     


     

     

    CB: The Sixers’ core is virtually the same as it was a couple of years ago (minus Andre Miller), but that’s beside the point. I personally spoke with a handful of coaches who had questions about Pierce’s willingness to share the ball, but that’s not the point, either. The point is that the Grizzlies have got a guy with the skill set to help them out big time. There’s no need for Memphis to rush into a trade without giving Gay a shot.

     

     

    Chris Broussard and Ric Bucher are senior writers for ESPN The Magazine.

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  • #537788
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    ghrghr
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    With all due respect, ric bucher is an idiot. Gay for iguodala would be terrible. If the sixers add a prospect or draft pick it gets better, but i still wouldn’t do it. The grizzlies need another scorer, and gay can create his shot and his defense was less sloppy this year. I think that playing for a losing team for most of his carreer hasn’t motivated him to defend, but when he plays against the best guys in the league he makes an effort and isn’t bad. I don’t think he had chemistry problems either, he looks like a funny, light-hearted guy. Right now i consider gay better than iggy and he can still improve a little, so please, don’t trade him grizz.

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  • #537797
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    SwatLakeCity
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     I think the Grizzlies should keep Gay. See if it will work. Yes, the Grizzlies did very well without Gay in the playoffs. But that is just a tribute to how good the Grizzlies really got after the Shane Battier trade. 

    Battier is the ideal backup on a young team. His veteran presence adds so much to this team. If Gay is kept and he starts, this team would be really good. (Which, of course, is the Grizzlies plan all along.) Gay adds so much to this team that replacing him is just too much to ask. (They might have gotten this far without him because of his motivation off the court).

    Now of course it won’t be easy to resign both Battier and Gasol, but it’s not out of the question. Even without an expected lockout, and the rumor might be short and hard to come by, resigning Gasol and Battier is not out of the question. Why, remember last year, many expected the Grizzlies to not have enough money to resign Rudy Gay. Many expected him to get out of Memphis, because they couldn’t find the money to keep him. (This may have been why they drafted Xavier Henry) But lo and behold, the Grizzlies did have enough money and were willing to go over the cap to resign him. Expect them to do so again.

    Now if a hard cap is in place next year, then obviously 1 will have to go, but I don’t think it will be Gay. Like I said he is irreplaceable. Gasol might be considered that way too, but Battier is just a veteran presence. Finding guys that can be veteran presence’s aren’t that hard to find. Battier is very likable around the league and I think he is most expendable if a hard cap is put in place and one of the 3 has to go.

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  • #537801
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    thparadox
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    I think Ric Bucher is absolutely correct. Rudy Gay needs to make a transformation if he is going to be a positive contribution to the team.

    It has nothing to do with talent. Rudy Gay is supremely talented. But the grizzlies were clearly better with Battier taking his minutes. Battier played very good perimeter D, and more possessions went to Randolph and Marc Gasol, who are both more efficient scorers than Gay.

    Bucher is correctly considering the Grizzlies financial future. They really can’t afford to keep Gay and lock up Marc Gasol as well. Trading Gay would be a very smart move at this point if they can get a fair deal. After the new CBA, this Gay contract will probably be bloated.

    Iggy isn’t as talented as Gay, but he would be an amazing fit. He can play lock down D from the spot that Battier was playing, and add his offensive strengths that Battier is lacking. I think he would make them a top contender.

    Why take a chance hoping that Gay can figure out how to be like Iguodala? If Gay does figure that out, he’d be better than Iguodala.. but that really isn’t guarateed. The financial situation is the kicker.

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  • #537804
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    thparadox
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    @Wardb12

    I think Marc Gasol is the one who is irreplaceable.

    It’s so much harder to find a great center than a great scorer.

     

    Marc Gasol was more valuable to the Grizz than Rudy Gay was this year. (when both were healthy)

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  • #537805
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    boxn1
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    He may have to be moved,because Marc Gasol is going to get every team with a decent amount of money chasing him,and Memphis needs him,more than they need Gay. Skilled big men who also bang in the paint aren’t easy to come by. If possible I would love to see Gay stay,on paper they are a ligitimate contender,but we all know the game is played on the floor

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  • #537806
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    RUDEBOY_
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    Its only people that rarely watch Grizzlies games that say they should trade Rudy Gay…Fans of Memphis know this trade shouldnt go down…Memphis made that great run becuz of their desire to finally play defense..Last season they lead the league in losts after having the lead in the 3rd quarter..If they had held on to those leads they might won 50 games and that was with Rudy and playing shabby defense..

    They still have too many wholes to be giving up a talented guy like Rudy…They might be playing in the finals if they could’ve hit outside shots…Regisning Gasol,adding some consistent outside shooters and an athletic big man should be their main goals this off season….

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  • #538202
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    SwatLakeCity
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     Your right, Paradox, Marc Gasol is irreplaceable, but Gay might be too if he can make the Grizzlies a lot better like I expect.

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