This topic contains 28 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar whiteflash 5 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #68777
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    high floor
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    If you had to rank these point guards, one through three, how would it turn out? 

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  • #1120782
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    SubZero
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    I was born in 94 so I wasn’t able to watch Payton or Stockton live in their primes and highlight tapes can be very deceiving, but from what I’ve heard from different players and fans I’d probably go 1. Stockton 2.CP3 3. Payton. I feel like most people say Payton is over CP3 because of the difference in playoff success, but I just think Chris Paul has been super unlucky with his team’s injuries. He’s always balled out and done his part

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  • #1120783
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    Ahkasi Clay
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     1,   Stockton

    2,    Payton

    3,    Paul

     

     

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    • #1120792
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      The Goat
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       100% correct and very clearly all on different levels

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      • #1120804
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        SubZero
        Participant

        So why was Gary Payton better than Chris Paul? I know his defense was insane and that I’d want to end my life if he picked me up full court but I’ve never really known what his offensive game was like

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        • #1120816
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          whiteflash
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           Payton actually has the three highest scoring seasons of all three. Great post game, great mid-range, and as he got older a competent deep ball. He was the best one on one defender of the three, but Stockton was closer than people think. Payton is also on record as saying Stockton was the hardest dude for him to guard, including Jordan.

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          • #1120891
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            SubZero
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            Yeah GP was on Pardon My Take recently and him saying that about Stock was what made me think he’s probably the best of all of them. Man I wish I was the age I am now in the 90s

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  • #1120786
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    celtics1982
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     I’d say Stockton, Paul, Payton, but it might not be that easy. Paul could pass Stockton if he has a great end to his career. Also I do wonder what Malone did for Stockton. I mean Stockton played with the best player, the best coach and overall the best team. Overall great question because they are three of the best PGs to play the game. I’d love a what if model if Payton and Paul played on the same team with Malone for there entire careers with a great coach.

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    • #1120821
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      whiteflash
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       You’re looking at that completely backwards, my man. They complimented each other for sure, but Malone benefited WAY MORE from playing with Stockton, not the other way around.

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      • #1120850
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        celtics1982
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         Malone was the better player, advanced stats show that. Stockton best skill was passing and Malone made it easy on him.

        A guy like Paul has led teams as its best player. Being its top scorer and passer. Thats harder than just being a passer and secondary scorer. I think you’d be amazed what Pauls stats would look like if he played his whole career with a guy like Malone. As it is, he’s on pace to match or break Stocktons career win share stats.

         

         

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        • #1120856
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          whiteflash
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          How old are you? 

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          • #1120883
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            celtics1982
            Participant

             This is like the third time I’ve seen you ask people how old they are. How old are you?

            Put it this way I was alive for Stocktons whole career, if thats what your getting at. I watched him battle Jordan in the finals live. I’m an adult, not a kid. I’ve seen all three players play a bunch of times.

            Stockton 207.7 win shares in 19 years, Paul 164.8 win shares in 13 years. Add in Paul played less games and you get the idea. Paul up to this point has been better. 

             

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            • #1120892
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              whiteflash
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               You should focus more on actual basketball, and less on "advanced statistics". There’s a reason that actual HOF players call Stockton the best pure pg of all time. Also, asking your age wasn’t me attempting to dismiss you, was wondering if you actually saw all three play. Judging by your response, I’m guessing you’re under 30. You don’t play ball with a calculator, bud. Enjoy your day. 

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              • #1120903
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                celtics1982
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                 You old timers always dismiss advanced stats. Yet its the best and really only tool we have to compare players from different periods in time. If you really want to get into debates like this maybe you should dig into advanced stats a little more. Otherwise all you have is an opinion.

                Best pure PG isn’t the same as the best PG ever though. Notice how HOF players are very careful in how they word that. Yet you take that to mean something more. They are basically calling him the best passing PG ever. Which I don’t have a problem with.

                You should bust out a calculator,  because I couldn’t have been alive for Stocktons entire career and be under 30. Thats just simple math my friend. But have at acting like my age matters, while saying your not dismissing me based on age. I’ve seen all three play at there peaks live on TV and have followed the sport for 30 plus years in depth. I’m a crazy sport nut, with an economics degree so I sure do love advanced stats. Have a wonderful day old timer !

                 

                 

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                • #1120904
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                  whiteflash
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                   If you’ve seen all three play, believe in "advanced stats" and believe that Paul is the best of the bunch, you need to get off this basketball site and go see a shrink. You too, li’l guy. 

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                  • #1120907
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                    celtics1982
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                     Ranked Stockton #1 right now, but said Paul can pass him with a strong finish to his career. But keep up the insults, while making stuff up.

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                    • #1120908
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                      whiteflash
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                       You said "it might not be that easy" while saying "advanced statistics" show Paul to be better and that he’ll pass Stockton in win shares, then you called me "old timer" repeatedly, yet I’m insulting you and making stuff up… strong work.

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                    • #1120910
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                      celtics1982
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                       I clearly showed Stockton leads in overall win shares, just Paul has more per game and per season. I have no idea how he ages, he might fall off a cliff or play great into his late 30s. Hence why I have him #2, but it might not be that easy. 10 years from now Paul might be number one.

                      Also yea I question how much an all time great like Malone helped Stockton. He was the man on those teams, he was Jordan, while Stockton was Pipen. So yea I have a hard time saying he’s the best point guard ever, because I don’t think he could ever be the best player on a Championship team.  I don’t have those concerns with Paul, he could easily be the best player. Heck his injury in the playoffs might have cost Houston a title. Look at what he meant to that team. Paul had a higher win share per game in the playoffs than Harden.

                      Time to bust out the glasses old timer

                       

                       

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                    • #1120911
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                      whiteflash
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                       Where did I write that he was the best PG  ever? Paul played like sh!t the first 3 games and padded his stats in garbage time. If Iguodala doesn’t go down GS wins in 3. Maybe you should take your own advice, li’l guy. 

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  • #1120793
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    XYRYX
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    I‘ve seen both Stockton and the glove play back then and while Payton was incredible tough on d he was nowhere near the level of Stockton. 

    Just saw a youtube video about Stockton a few days ago where the claim was he might be the pound for pound GOAT considering his insane assists and steal career numbers and his shooting was also excellent throughout his career well before point guards focused this much about it. 

    He might not be the pound for pound GOAT in the end but he went at Jordan’s throat many times and actually had incredible ball handling and also kind of crossovers. Not flashy but extremely quick moves and put his defender on skates hundreds of times. He missed 23 TOTAL games in 19 years and he really played physical basketball on high mpg. People always say he doesn’t look like a basketball player a all but to me he really is underrated athletically. He was lightning quick with and without the ball, had sick offensive moves, maybe the best outside shooting pg of his generation, had steals and assists like crazy and so on. He checked every box score of a true pg and is the ultimate prototypical point guard. 

    I might even tomas fat and say Payton and CP3 are not in the same category. Stockton has many arguments to be considered the best pg ever, don’t think you can say that with a straight face about CP3 or Payton.

     

     

    For durability reasons I pick Payton over CP3 right now but Paytons last years were a pretty rasant decline. If Paul can squeeze 5 more relatively healthy good years out of his body he might surpass him but the time Paul already missed due to injuries is far worse than Payton’s and not even in the same book as Stockton. 23 missed games IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER is insane through 19 seasons.

     

     

     

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    • #1120798
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      Odie
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       I completely agree with your assessment of John Stockton. Although he looked like your local accountant, the thing that stood out is his nastiness. He would hold, elbow, even lunch his opponent to get an edge. Just a ferocious competitor at 6 foot 170 pounds….

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      • #1120888
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        Kwame33
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        he should have been given "The Mailman" moniker considering his passes and the fact that he looked like an actual mailman haha.

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    • #1120812
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      whiteflash
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       This. John Stockton is without question the best pure pg in NBA history, and it’s not even close. Someone was talking about looking at "advanced statistics" while clearly never actually watching him play. The only two dude’s on Stockton’s level are Magic and Isaiah Thomas. Yes, he was that good, and along with Hakeem Olajuwon probably the most underrated player of all time.

      Payton and Paul are a toss up, but without thinking too much I’d probably give the nod to Paul.

       

       

       

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  • #1120797
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    cohenbc1
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     I would have answered this question very differently up until recently when I went back and looked at the top players by advanced stats on basketball-reference.com, from the present back through the ’80s. Mostly this confirmed what I already thought about who the greatest players of their eras were but there were some surprises. 

    One is that by advanced stats CP3 is clearly the 3rd best player of the past decade. Stockton and Payton may have had a few seasons where they were at that level, but CP3 is there year after year after year.

    He has not had the team success of Payton or Stockton, but that may be about to change. In my opinion if he makes a Finals, or just continues to perform at this level for a couple more years, he jumps to the top of the list.

    It’s impossible to pick between Payton and Stockton. They were both iconic players of their generation who embodied two very different approaches to the PG position.

     

     

     

     

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  • #1120800
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    Hitster
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    Very good question – I have to put Stockton first just through the weight of numbers he put up. The combined career assist numbers of CP3 and the Glove are less than 2,000 combined more than John put up in his career and if you think that Glove and CP3 have/had well over a decade at near peak of their games!

    The choice between CP3 and Glove is very hard, their All NBA, Defensive Team numbers stack up very well. CP3 has better assist and scoring numbers but I feel Glove was the better defender due to his size. Glove had a title but that was at the back end of his career. The Glove was a bit more durable across his career so I have to put him ahead of CP3 but it is almost a tie breaker decider.

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  • #1120803
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    Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
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     This is tough to be honest. Strictly based on durability and overall length of career Stockton has to be first. He played 19 seasons and barely missed a game in his career. His assists record looks pretty much untouchable at the moment. From a fundamentals perspective, he is still the standard for the pg position. I do have to point out though that he wasn’t nearly the offensive threat that Payton and cp3 were in their primes. He played his entire career in the same system and never had to carry his team offensively the way Paul and Payton did. 

    Payton was probably the best overall defender of the 3 and really developed as a scorer as his career progressed. He wasn’t the facilitator or playmaker Stockton or Paul was though. 

    Paul is probably the most well-rounded player of the 3. Much better scorer than Stockton, better facilitator than Payton. Very good defender. Very few overall weaknesses as a player. It’s kind of unfair to judge his overall career against Stockton and Payton as he likely still has at least a few high level seasons left.

    If I had to rank them in terms of who I feel is the best overall player I’m taking cp3 first, Stockton second and Payton third, though I’m sure most will probably disagree.

     

     

     

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  • #1120805
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    llperez

     I go Payton, Paul then Stockton. I do agree john’s career accomplishments probably merits him being rankedvthe highest, but in their prime, give me Payton. Absolute stud defender. He could post up which back in the day pg’s would still do, not that you see it much anymore outside of Shaun Livingston 

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  • #1120813
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    TarHeelRaven
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     I’ll never forget the story from the documentary of the original dream team when Stockton went out in Barcelona and nobody recognized him.  He even went up to random strangers and asked them who their favorite player from the team was and absolutely nobody knew who he was.  The guy was a straight killer and I think he’s far better than Chris Paul and Gary Payton and I don’t even think it’s close.

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  • #1120825
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    whiteflash
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     Just want to point out that in the 89-90 season Stockton averaged 14.5 assists and only 3.5 to’s. That’s not a typo.

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