Fultz is overrated...

kobyz
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Fultz is overrated...

He is good or very good at everything but doesn't have one thing amazing as a prospect at PG position, not an amazing passer, not an amazing defender, not an amazing shooter, not an amazing athletic ability, not an amazing penetration, comparison: Reggie Jackson... I don't know why he's consider the sure number 1 pick, I personally will take first at the PG position Fox who could be the next Westbrook with better defense...


negguary
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HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHah sooooooo^^^^^^^^^^^ explains your -2541 points

kobyz
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Cause people here don't like

Cause people here don't like not mainstream takes, and it's not change to them I am proven right on most...

kobyz
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Just like with Mario hezonja

Just like with Mario hezonja when this place was so high on him while I was sticking with saying he's so overhype, and will never be a good player, it cost me at least 200 points overall..,

high floor
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Let's be fair

Let's be fair to kobyz semi-point that his #1 overall status is at least debatable.

For the record, I do think he has a lot more creativity to his game than your Reggie Jackson comparison. But Fultz's defense has not really stood out, and he's not lightning quick. He is a significantly better outside shooter than Reggie Jackson, and has shown a superb ability to score at the rim and hit three's. A 'captain obvious' takeaway... I know.... but it's essential for star-caliber guards in the pro's.

I also think Fultz needs to show a little more from a leadership perspective. Am I saying he needs to be as fiery as a guy like Westbrook? No. But he doens't seem to me like he's a great communicator, which would serve him well on both sides of the ball as "the guy" in the NBA.

I think Fultz is a top 3 lock... but if I hold the #1 overall pick I'm trying to legitimately work out 5-6 guys and go deep on personal interviews. This is too intriguing of a draft to not do all the due-diligence you can.

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hmmmmm

Im not even gonna tak about Fultz or the comparison. Lets talk Fox. In terms of PG play hs a good penetrator and has shown he can run the offense well. Hes fast as it gets and has a gd height at 6-3 which could easily become 6-4/5 as he matures, hes got great bounce and his reflexes are terrific. The problem is his lack of a reliable jumpshot from annnnnywhere. Im one of those guys that believes he can and willmake it work at some stage but the 1st pick is not the time to take that risk unless he's say Ben Simmons height lol. I would not be mad at him going 1st in some scenerio tthough just cant see it but the westbrookish potential is there. 3-8 range for me depending on teams drafting

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There are no SG's that this

There are no SG's that this website projects to go in the lottery (I count Josh Jackson as a SF). If I wanted to draft for position and wanted a SG, I'd take Fox. He can play make, but he's best served looking for his own shot.

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Fox plays PG. What about Monk

Fox plays PG. What about Monk Fox's SG? He should go Top 10 and is ranked 8th in the current mock.

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Fultz is "amazing" at

Fultz is "amazing" at penetration and finishing with either hand.

2quick4u
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i think that even though

i think that even though fultz cannot be called overrated as he's posting 23pg/6rb/6ast i also believe that he's not a nº1 pick in the draft..at least in my mock..

for me right now he would be nº3 behind ball and jackson, but watch out because tatum and isaac are climbing fast and a good show up of these two in the tournament could make fultz fall between 3 and 5..

so he better finish strong the season to leave his mark because he won't play the tournament and if others shine there, he could be shaded..

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I have a whole long argument

I have a whole long argument why I think teams should avoid Fultz, my argument with ChicagoCasey on the topic is worth the read..

But do me a favor.. If you think Fultz is worth the Number1 look at his numbers closer. He's not a PG ive been saying this since before the season.. Great Scoring threat but it wont translate as well at the next level, I did my research on this kid.. Hes not a good shooter without the ball in his hands, he needs the ball to pick his spots..

binet
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I would like to see your

I would like to see your argument in depth.

Because you have to know Fultz really started to be the consensus number 1 because of his play with team USA this summer (earning MVP honors in Americas), and he clearly was not holding the ball nor showing inability to play off the ball or shoot off the ball, to the contrary. He played SG there mostly and you can argue that's his best position in the NBA is possibly at the 2, but your research is inaccurate. Playing with the ball in his hands when playing with the terrible team and coach he has in Udub don't tell anything.

I personally do not see Fultz as a PG but would take him number 1 regardless, since he is the best SG prospect in recent years and playmaking scoring wings are the most important in the NBA( You can win championships with ok to average PGs (Fishers and Rondos of the world), but you desperately need a star on the wing).

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Binet, I will post im alway

Ill post it soon, Im always posting off my iphone which is time consuming to write an indepth thread.. Next time Im on my laptop ill post it

mikeyvthedon
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I could let Fultz being overrated go

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion as far as that is concerned. Heck, I even would have let you calling Fox "the next Westbrook with better defense" go, even if I strongly disagree with that parallel. However, once you came up with the gem "I am proven right on most...", this came rushing back into my consciousness:

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/draft-will-be-remembered-ages-great-one

Not only did you think the top 5 was picked exactly the way it should be (so much for the whole fighting "mainstream takes"), but you have 6 players who are no longer in the league (including 3 point guards) ahead of Damian Lillard. That may fit more with you going against the "mainstream", just not with you "being proven right on most". So, in your defense, beyond your dislike of Mario Hezonja, do you have any takes that could fight this thread? There have been 4 All-Stars from the 2012 NBA Draft, one of them you ranked 17th and the other two do not appear in your top 20.

Beyond the incredible hyperbole of your 2012 NBA Draft review, here is another post that came to mind:

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/channing-frye

"What is more important, life or basketball?" Well, I think living is a requirement to play basketball. Plus, whatever was happening with Channing, he may have extended his career and now was part of a championship team. I am sure you will point out things you FEEL you were right about, though, overall, not sure many of them have you being "proven right".

kobyz
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Those were clearly a joke

Those were clearly a joke threads of mine to troll and make fun a lottle out of boring, you can tell they wern't seriously, I can give many serious threads of mine when I gave very unpopular opinion and Was proven right like the one about draymond while in college when I was his only beliver here: http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/draymond-green

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What a cop out.. MikeyV calls

What a cop out.. MikeyV calls you out and you say "I was doing it for the lulz here, but not here"

Some of you guys crack me up..

mikeyvthedon
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Not his only believer

Have proof of that:

http://www.nbadraft.net/draymond-green-expects-be-late-1st-round-pick

Though, much like you, I would not have had him in my top 20 for the 2012 NBA Draft, but I definitely liked him as a 1st round pick. Still kind of hilarious in that the point of you being "proven right" in your "not mainstream take(s)" is on a take that was not necessarily against the mainstream. Just because the people that post on this board may disagree, there were plenty of people who liked Draymond quite a bit in the analytics community. Either way, not only were you not necessarily alone against the "mainstream" on that, but it hardly shows that you are "proven right on most". At least the ones that are not, "clearly a joke".

Well, you can keep being this sites version of Omar in the meantime, fighting against the "mainstream" ideals:

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The Wire is my favorite show

The Wire is my favorite show ever. It's funny that they made Omars character a creepy homosexual though. They did that as now to glorify all the killing he did/try not to create a role model. I still think he's cool af.

mikeyvthedon
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Omar rules

Such a fantastic character, loved the Wire as well. Was thinking with kobyz whole "I was his only believer here" motif that, "the cheese stands alone" truly applied.

Andv1 Waiting
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I wouldn't say Futlz is overrated but no 1 is not clear cut....

Things we don't know about Futlz yet: Will he be able to be a legit two way player(we would have seen this more if he had more talent around him),How would he handle the big stage:NCAA tourny(they probably won't make it) and What will he be when playing elite talent...

What we do know about Futlz:he can score,Has nice shooting Mechanics,Is a reasonably willing passer and has reasonable range.

I could see Futlz falling into one of the following types of players:D angello Russell(hopefully a more mature version of him),Mike Conoly,C.J Mcollum,Devin Booker or Best case James Harden..

However undisputed number 1 I wouldn't fully bank on that just yet as it all depends on gets the number 1 spot: As I could currently see one of 4-5 players going number 1 overall,.

Untouchable J
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Not a crazy sentiment at all

Not a crazy sentiment at all honestly

To me he's not a point in the slightest. Not fast enough. I have no idea why everyone's calling him a point. Then again they called Wade a point coming out of college

His comp to me is Bradley Beal. Advanced scoring for his age + hops.

Or a slightly stronger DeAngelo Russell, and Russell won't be playing PG for much longer

I tell you one thing, if it wasn't for the ugliness of Ball's shot, which makes everyone wonder is he really THAT great a shooter, he'd be everyone's #1. I can think of many scenarios I where adults is just a 1 dimensional scorer, whereas I see Ball immediately making a team a ton better and scoring efficiently and on minimal shots...at 6'6!

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Beal is way better off the

Beal is way better off the Ball than Fultz, I truly believe this kid needs the ball in his hands to be efficent and I believe Fultz commited to Washington because he was going to be allowed to dominate the rock.. His stats are padded by his gaudy free throw attempt numbers.. I think hes going to have some growing pains coming into the league and will struggle to play the way he does in College in the League..

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I compare Fultz to Deron

I compare Fultz to Deron Williams in his prime. He is clearly a going to be a good player but probably never in the same level as the top 4 PGs today who are all 1st ballet HOFers.

I think Lonzo should be #1 and wouldn't be suprised if a dozen of NBA teams have him as the #1 player. If Lakers are given the #1 pick expect them to be reversed anyway.

Heroescantdie
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Fultz

I don't think fultz is overrated, it's just he's not great at one trait although he's good at all of that. His offensive game is very good, although he can show more effort on d. He's not a freak athlete but his wingspan can compensate for that. His height is not that great IMO since he only stands 6'4 although it is a good height for a pg like john wall but without wall's athletecism. If he stands about 6'6 pg I think we're not posting replies on this topic. He's just so complete on every facets of the game but not great. Compared to westbrookses at wallses with elite athleticism, he's forte is scoring coming out of college unlike those two who is a freak athlete

barbabodom
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You say he is overrated but

You say he is overrated but then you put him as #2 in your mock draft? How is that?

mamadou
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....

He'll be OK alongside Smart....Olynyk, Crowder and Zizic next year.

Now that's a 2nd unit....now we talkin', now Bradley or IT could become expandable before their huge pay raise.

Or he'll be the ROY for the Pacers, Bulls...

I can't see the lakers selecting him before Ball, i can't see the suns selecting him before Ball and Jackson..if given the opportunity.

Overrated or not, kept or not, worth or not, he's the 1st pick, 10 months ago it was already the case for me, i thought it would be the Sixers pick tho...

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While Fultz is a very good

While Fultz is a very good project I think a few kids on here are overrating him by saying he is a lock to be the number 1 pick and will be a star at the next level. Fultz is good, I do question his heart and motor a bit...

Lonzo Ball outplayed Fultz and Ball or Jackson could have a good tourney run and end up going number 1.

binet
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Fox outplayed Ball. Melton

Fox outplayed Ball.

Melton outplayed Ball.

That's not really an argument.

Injury concerns with Fultz's Knee might be though. And team fit. I think Boston should prefer Ball probably (Thomas-Fultz lineup seems too bad defensively, à la Lillard-McCollum, and I am not sold they complement well each other. Ball fits extremely well with Boston imo), given Brooklyn's pick position that makes that pick extremely uncertain.

The talent of Fultz is far superior though in my opinion. He is so young and still probably the most skilled guard in NCAA in recent years, even superior to Kyrie at the same stage, and with better physical tools. A better prospect than Kyrie at PG should be consensus number 1 and that's why he is, no disrespect to Lonzo's talent.

Lonzo also is not good in P&R, which in today's NBA is a concern for everybody not named Phil Jackson. That's something not said enough about his game. He relies a lot on fast pace transition based on his superior athleticism at this level, but if this athleticism does not translate, it will become way harder. And that Kentucky game really concerns me about that. He is nowhere near Fox athletically and Bam was able to guard him in a way that suggest most NBA athletes are going to be able to check him. You could argue that it's not really important if he has a transcendant playmaker with him (Thomas?)and just needs to use his vision and BBall IQ elsewhere and knock down open 3s. His defense could end up anywhere from very bad to absurdly good imo, given his size, feel and quick hands (plus side), but lack of strength and possibly first step speed defensively (minus side).He has shown both good and bad on that end so far, but I am leaning towards him developping well as a defender.

kobyz
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Look like I was right once

Look like I was right once again, with everyone starting to agree sixers made a mistake with that pick...

kobyz
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Man how wrong I've been, he's

Man how wrong I've been, he's way behind overrated!!

BeastMode716
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Fultz avg 5.7 FTA's per 36 min in his limited NBA Experience

It was Very clear early on that dude could not or would not shoot - so Defenders layed off Fultz daring him to shoot, giving themselves extra space to defend againt dribble penetration

and this igga STILL beat them off the drible whenever he felt like it

I have No idea what's going on w/ dude's shot but his dribble penetration & ability to score, draw a foul of dish to wide open teammates when help defense rotated to him was TOP Level

And this kid will STILL only be 19 years old when the season ends

I'm Not saying that a guy WILL be a Star if he can't be stopped off the Dribble penetration but I AM saying he can NOT be a Star withOUT it

Now what made Fultz special going into the Draft was that he combined his dribble pentration w/ the ability to pull up & hit a jumper at a High level from Anywhere - mid range - 3pt range - he was a 41% 3pt shooter & his assist to turn over ration was Higher than Lonzo Ball at the NCAA level

Now NONE of that is my opinion - those are Facts - go look them up

You watch that Sixers team - the way they move the ball, the way they defend, the way Ben Simmons Always looks to pass but Never Hogs the Ball or runs Iso's in the 1/2 court & you have to be Crazy not to see how Fultz's skill set fits Perfectly in that Starting 5 Unit at BOTH ends

So if U saying Fultz Must shoot off the bounce to effective - he can Do that in Phila b/c Ben Simmons does Not do that - Phila can either run screens to get Fultz Iso'd on whatever perimeter match up he wants & then Fultz can run a high P&R with EITHER Simmons OR Embiid - that's Crazy versatility - how could Any team stop that if this dude is shooting like he normally did in college

And at the Defensive End - Phila's Main focus is to run opponents Off the 3pt line so they are forced to funnel into the paint where Joel Embiid is waiting - Simmons & Robert Covington are so long & so quick they make it So hard for teams to get an unmolested 3 pt shot - right now JJ Reddick is the 2 guard & he's a defensive liability - you plug High Level Markelle Fultz in that 2guard spot, w/ a 36'' vertical leap & a 6'10'' Wing Span & tell him just go Run opponents off the 3pt line & that is an Upgrade over what they already have & they Statistically their Startung 5 is one of the Most deadly in the NBA at Both ends - it's their bench that's weak

If you can't see that or understand that then you just do not understand basketball - now if the guy has a Mental problem than there's No way traditional way to fix that & the Sixers got fleeced but don;t pretend ANYONE questioned Fultz's mental make up B4 the Draft or claimed his shot would disappear which has Never happened in NBA history to a #1 pick - personally I think Phila should fire Colangelo asap b.c he handled this ish so poorly

But from a purely Basketball stand point - the move makes Perfect sense & the NBA better Hope this kid Fultz does Not get it together b/c I just don;t see how Any team in the NBA can defend that starting 5 of Covington, Saric, Embiid, Simmons & Fultz - Saric is a Bruising Defender, a poor man's Ben Simmons passing the ball & rebounding & at 6'10'' he's shooting 40% from 3pt Range! Phila will be able to run a P&R w/ Fultz & Simmons w/ Simmons in the Post or Roller & Embiid, Saric & Covington spread out across the 3pt line waiting for Wide open 3's - the size & athleticism of that starting 5 would be Insane & you got 3 guys (Embiid, Simmons & Fultz) who ALL command a Double Team - that is Nutz

kobyz
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Might be the greatest post

Might be the greatest post ever in the forum, great mind to predict fultz as potential big bust and fox as best in his the class

r377
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Yes people laughed and negged

Yes people laughed and negged you. Now those same people just skim or ignore this thread.

Lots of sheep on here, I remember all the times you dare not say a bad word about Perry Jones, Shabazz Muhommed, Austin Rivers, Fultz or even the Harrison twins without being negged.

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I'll give you credit on being

I'll give you credit on being higher on Fox than most others but I wouldn't say you nailed Fultz being a bust. You said Fultz would be a bust because he doesn't have a stand-out trait but the truth is that Fultz has struggled because he hasn't been healthy and has been suffering from nerve compression.

r377
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Fultz has always been

Fultz has always been overrated ever since his high school mix tapes. I know Chicago Casey lips have been permantly glued to Fult'z cock ever since these mix tapes came out to hype him up.

Me and Oh-Canada both said we would not of taken Fultz @ no 1. Even in this post 2 years ago I said he lacked heart and motor.

Credit to Kobyz he got this one right...

kobyz
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Yes he busted even harder,

Yes he busted even harder, because not being great prospect from the first place with bad combination of also having pressure of number 1 pick which kill him mentally...

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He has been struggling with injuries

He is young and I still have faith in him.

I see no point in rooting for him to fail.

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