This topic contains 13 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by AvatarAvatar JDB12 4 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #465168
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    Dazzling Dunks and Basketball Bloopers
    Participant

    Let’s say you are starting a team and had your choice of one of these young bigs to build your franchise around. Who would you choose and why? 

    Embiid probably has the highest overall ceiling as a franchise player with his ability to impact the game on both ends, but also comes with the most question marks. He has yet to play a full healthy season without breaking down physically. Jokic has offensive skills we’ve never really seen unleashed before at the center position, but brings concerns about his commitment to conditioning and whether he’ll always be somewhat of a defensive liability. And while towns might have the most well-rounded overall skill set, he hasn’t put it together yet in a way that shows he can function as the centerpiece of a true contender. 

    Lets assume you were eligible to give any one of these guys a full 5 year max deal? Taking everything we know so far about these players who would be your first, second and third choice?

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  • #1137581
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    BlueRivers25
    Participant

     Jokic and Embiid are MVP candidates. Towns is a really good player. 

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  • #1137584
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    zcnumerouno
    Participant

    Tough call between the Joker and Embiid.

    If health wasn’t an obstacle, I would definitely go with Embiid because of his upside and defense. But since that’s always a concern, it’s a coin flip for me (but I’d probably lean Jokic until Embiid can prove he can last a full season / playoff run).

    As BlueRivers said, Towns is merely a really good player at the moment who posts great numbers, but something is missing from his game that prevents him from being the type of player (impact-wise) that he could become.

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  • #1137587
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    cohenbc1
    Participant

    Jokic and it’s not a difficult choice. It comes down to what you said: "Jokic has offensive skills we’ve never really seen unleashed before at the center position."

    And is he really such a defensive liability? basketball-reference.com has him 8th among all players in defensive win shares; espn.com has him 26th among all players in defensive RPM (Embiid is 14th and 5th, respectively). I know advanced stats on defense overrate big men, especially big men on winning teams. But these numbers suggest he’s at least pretty good in the team defensive scheme.

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  • #1137588
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    CoachWyers
    Participant

     I would go with KAT, Embiid is the most talented, but he has yet to stay healthy.

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  • #1137589
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    OhCanada-
    Participant

    Not to take anything away from Embiid he’s a special player and a great cornerstone for any franchise but Jokic for sure. Theres just something about him and the way he manages to stay cool and collected in the most intense moments, you wouldnt even think its a pressure scenerio by the way he handles himself. He really steps up when it matters most and he manages to produce under any circumstance.

    There arent many "ungaurdable" players in the NBA and hes one of them. Jokic, James, Leonard, Durant, Curry and Harden cant be defended.

    And nobody wants seems to ever mention this guys stamina and durability. Averaged 40-mpg last year in the playoffs thats tough for a 7-footer. No nights off, no flu days off, no sulking or depression. He just brings it, oldschool basketball player.

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  • #1137592
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    The Goat
    Participant

     Embiid is a huge guy. Despite what he does and the numbers,  his physical presence has to be an additional attribute that doesn’t appear in the box score. Sounds stupid, but if you play, you know. Having the biggest guy out there and knowing he can really play gives the team something you can’t measure.  It’s that star presence that championship teams have. With his offense and defense combined, I’d have to say he has an edge over the Joker.

    Jokic is a 6/10 individual defender although better within the scheme the Nuggets run. Jokics passing is elite though, so if you pair him with a superstar level scoring then it’s trouble for everyone. Nugs have fingers crossed on MPJ. 

    KAT could be anything. I can’t say he’s soft but it comes to mind. He’s lacking that drive or presence or something, I can’t put my finger on it. He has all the skills though so in a few years, he could be the one. 

    Right now for me it’s Embiid, Jokic, KAT. 

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  • #1137593
    r377r377
    r377
    Participant

     I take Jokic over Embiid.  Health and also Jokic is a triple double threat every time out – he is unique.

    I would sign jokic over embiid with a 5yr contract

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  • #1137595
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    BeastMode716
    Participant

     But he really hasn’t had any serious injuries since the foot – all time bust Markelle Fultz busted his face 2 yrs ago right before the playoffs so his conditioning fell off plus that mask made it hard to breathe 

    And last season Phila over used him early until they made those trades 

    Seems like the big thing w/ Embiid is taking his diet seriously which Jokic did this past year w/ great results 

    I luv all 3 guys – KAT really broke out once Minny changed coaches & he quietly had a monster season & Joker was just amazing leading Denver 

    But putting health aside for a moment – if Embiid was committed to his diet & u knew he’d be good for 70 games a year + playoffs would Anyone NOT choose Embiid – seriously?

    Embiid just became the 3rd player in NBA History to score 3800 pts, grab 1800 rebounds & block 300 shots in his 1st 160 games or less – NOT center – PLAYER…. the other 2 Shaq & David Robinson

    He also just had Only the 3rd season in NBA history Avg Over 27 ppg, Over 13 Reb per game, Over 3 ast per game & Over 1 block per game – the other 2: Kareem & Shaq! & Embiid avg all that AND over 1 3pt fg a game too – 1st in NBA History 

    Embiid is a literal Monster & he Dominates the game at Both ends – he’s listed at 7 foot – the man is Not 7 foot – he’s 7’2” nearly 300 lbs & has the lateral movement of a Wing – Embiid was a +90 for the series vs Toronto! that’s Not a misprint 

    After game 1 Phila coaches put Embiid on Siakam & Siakma did NOTHING the rest of the series – Embiid at him alive & that’s on the perimeter mostly – he did all that NOT anywhere near 100% healthy 

    As much as a I luv KAT & Joker they’re both below avg Defenders – Embiid is an All World Defender & can Dominate a game just at the Def end…… but he also Dominates at the Off end – he’s only 25 & the only Bigs who can even defend him are Experienced Great defenders Horford & Marc Gasol but soon No one will be able to defend him – he’s just too F’ing big & his lateral agility & quickness are just unheard of in a man this big & long

    W/ Kat & Jokic I believe a team can compete for Titles – w/ Embiid you can Dominate & win multiple Titles – he’s tracking historically w/ the all time greats & even though I def have health concerns the upside is just too good to pass up

    But I don’t think you can go wrong w/ any of the 3 – for all the talk of small ball – it seems like all the young up & coming Super Stars 25 & under (Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Porzingus, Simmons, Kat & even Doncic is 6’8”) are Giants & what’s Crazy is Every one is an International Star – so the League has Really gone Global

    The NBA is in good hands & just seems to get better & better 

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  • #1137600
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    llperez

     no offense to kat who is a hell of a player, but hes defenitely third on this one.

    between jokic and embiid, thats a tough call. Id go with jokic though just based on health. If I had a crystal ball and knew both were gonna be healthy, its a coin flip but i might give embiid the slightest edge. I actually think jokic benefits a little bit with his supporting cast where he is surrounded by shooters while embiid’s best teammate is a guy who cant shoot if his life depended on it. 

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  • #1137612
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    high floor
    Participant

    I’ll go Jokic. He was great in the playoffs, and I feel he has a lot of potential as a scorer left in his ceiling.

    If you added Anthony Davis to this thread (I’m assuming you didn’t because of his public disapproval of playing Center) than I would go Davis. 

    I still think Davis will see the floor as a Center in close games….. he just doesnt want the 35+ minute per night pounding against 7-footers in the post each game

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  • #1137620
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    The Scare Crow Rises
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    Jokic is just as out of shape as Embiid(maybe evn more out of shape TBH) and he’ll suffer an injury too(It’s inevitable with big men with at that height/weight)

    Right now, TODAY, Embiid eats both Kat and The Joker alive on both ends of the floor, I don’t think people give Embiid half the credit he deserves on both sides of the ball

    Jokic is a very special player, he’s like a mini Arvydas Sabonis in the modern era of Pace and Space

    KAT is a very good young player too, he’s missing that special something that Embiid and Jokic have and makes them MVP candidates

    People have legitimate concerns about Embiids health(As someone who has to watch him every game, I have concerns too, both they are not from a structural stand point, they come from Joel doing way too much on the court, because he’s such a freak and can do those things)

    2 Players in the NBA have given Joel trouble in the past, 1 is Marc Gasol who just played another extended season and FIBA world cup is aging at a rapid rate, the other is former Celtic and new 76er Al Horford, who Joel will practice with and against over the next 4 years, He’s gonna be unstopable next year as long as he’s on the Floor(health is not even a disqualifier because even at 80% he was a Plus 90 in the Raptors series and completely shut MIP Siakam down…

    Who in the world stops a Healthy/In Shape/Focused Embiid? Not Jokic, KAT or Anthony Davis, hell Rudy Gobert/Whiteside/Drummond/Jordan can’t either…Again maybe Marc Gasol, a veteran with almost 20 year experience in the game, who’s gonna be a great coach 1 day BTW

    The picks for Jokic clearly show bias towards him over Embiid for this perception that Jokic will be healthier than him long term, again Jokic is an overweight non athletic, defensive liability who will break down over time as well, lets not even mention his immaturity with Refs when a calls doesn’t go his way…

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  • #1137621
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    The Scare Crow Rises
    Participant

    Jokic is just as out of shape as Embiid(maybe evn more out of shape TBH) and he’ll suffer an injury too(It’s inevitable with big men with at that height/weight)

    Right now, TODAY, Embiid eats both Kat and The Joker alive on both ends of the floor, I don’t think people give Embiid half the credit he deserves on both sides of the ball

    Jokic is a very special player, he’s like a mini Arvydas Sabonis in the modern era of Pace and Space

    KAT is a very good young player too, he’s missing that special something that Embiid and Jokic have and makes them MVP candidates

    People have legitimate concerns about Embiids health(As someone who has to watch him every game, I have concerns too, both they are not from a structural stand point, they come from Joel doing way too much on the court, because he’s such a freak and can do those things)

    2 Players in the NBA have given Joel trouble in the past, 1 is Marc Gasol who just played another extended season and FIBA world cup is aging at a rapid rate, the other is former Celtic and new 76er Al Horford, who Joel will practice with and against over the next 4 years, He’s gonna be unstopable next year as long as he’s on the Floor(health is not even a disqualifier because even at 80% he was a Plus 90 in the Raptors series and completely shut MIP Siakam down…

    Who in the world stops a Healthy/In Shape/Focused Embiid? Not Jokic, KAT or Anthony Davis, hell Rudy Gobert/Whiteside/Drummond/Jordan can’t either…Again maybe Marc Gasol, a veteran with almost 20 year experience in the game, who’s gonna be a great coach 1 day BTW

    The picks for Jokic clearly show bias towards him over Embiid for this perception that Jokic will be healthier than him long term, again Jokic is an overweight non athletic, defensive liability who will break down over time as well, lets not even mention his immaturity with Refs when a calls doesn’t go his way…

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  • #1137652
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    JDB12
    Participant

     As a Wolves fan who is continually frustrated with the team and Towns for not doing more, I think we all actually underrate him quite a bit. His PPG is right inbetween Embiid and Jokic at 24, his RPG is at 14 with Embiid compared to Jokic’s 10 RPG. Embiid is at 2 BPG while Towns is at 1.5 and Jokic is at 0.7. Here is a place where I believe both Towns and Embiid should be just above 2 per game… Both have games where they make a significant impact rim protecting, and then they will disappear for a number of games; again, more so KAT than Embiid. Here’s where KAT separates himself; his shooting splits are at 53/39/84 while Embiid is at 48/31/78 and Jokic is at 52/34/83. I think that the only thing that separates KAT, Embiid and Jokic is that Embiid and Jokic simply have much more talent/better teammates around them. I think we expect KAT to be able to carry his team when he honestly has a lot of dead weight to carry compared to Embiid and Jokic. With how talented Embiid’s team is he should be shooting much higher percentages. And I would be expecting KAT to actually be shooting much lower percentages because he is by far the best player on the team and could easily put up 5-10 more shots per game. He absolutely needs to become more consistent at the defensive end, but he also can’t pick up the slack of 3 or 4 other guys not doing their part on defense which is what we expect him to do as a rim protector. At the end of the day, the Sixers and Nuggets are much better teams on both ends of the floor, and KAT often takes the hit for a poor Wolves defense. 

    If I had to pick a player to build around it would definitely be KAT. With Embiid’s injury history and also his big personality, it’s far too much risk. With Jokic’s lack of rim protection and consistent conditioning I think it makes KAT my choice. What I like about KAT outside of his talent is he also seems to be a very encouraging teammate and brings positive energy to the floor. Like I said, Embiid can often only be about himself and getting attention, and Jokic’s quiet and reserved personality isn’t typically someone I’d want as my centerpiece. Not that it is always a bad thing (Brandon Roy), but I think overall, KAT has the best opportunity to be the all-around star a team would want to build around as a player and a person.

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