[UncledrewParticipant]

So ive looked down the forum and i see atleast 4 to 5 post about Doncic. I dont know if its because he just came off his euroleague mvp but i just dont see all the hype. It seems like every year the draft community has to come up with the future Star from europe and every time they come over to the nba its bust season. I can go on and on the young euro players theyve hyped up (rubio, exum, hezonja ect.) And they all have panned out to be borderline nba players to lowend starters. But to get back to Doncic what i see when i watch him play is a slow unathletic 6 foot 8 scoring guard who doesnt have a high release point shoots 40 percent from the field in Europe(closer 3 point line) and underwelming playmaker on top of that. How he is going to come in the league and be the franchise player he has been billed to be with a below average shot and below average athleticism will surprising at the least. To a further extent how he is getting consideration for the number 1 overall pick over guys like Deandre Ayton who accidentally averaged 20 and 10 at arizona as a raw athletic 7 footer or Michael Porter Jr who is criminally being underated due to his back injury. No one is talking about Joel Embiid spinal injury anymore and he now looks like a top 3 nba center for years to come. The bottom line MP jr is the most skilled and talented player in this draft when healthy and Doncic isnt on that level. Whoever selects Doncic number 1 may get a good player but not the best player by any stretch of the imagination. So if any one has any good reason to explain all this Doncic for number 1 hype feel free otherwise lets not overthink this and kill the hypetrain. THE END

[ThenilonatorParticipant]

 Not sure what part of Europe Australia belongs too

[UncledrewParticipant]

So particular. Not US bred how about that. I get it people wanted to get recognition for being able to play from all areas of the world which i agree there is talent everywhere but the point is the most dominant nba players have historically came from the United States.

[StephGoneStephParticipant]

 Let not forget that Deandre Ayton was born in the Bahamas, Ben Simmons was born in Australia, Joel Embiid was born in Cameroon, Giannis was born in Greece, Porzingis was born in Latvia… I could go on.

[ChoppyParticipant]

 Kyrie Irving was also born in Melbourne, Australia. 

[ThenilonatorParticipant]

 Yeah of course I agree with that. But that figure is trending heavily towards evening out. You only need to look at this years world team at the all star game to see the future of the league isn’t as USA dominant as it has been since the inception of the nba. There are only a very select few ncaa players that would make a euroleague roster, let alone win mvp. That obviously doesn’t mean he will be an nba all star, but it sure as hell makes him more a chance than anyone else coming before him.

[UncledrewParticipant]

 I agree the parity between foreign players and us players are evening out but i still havent seen a explanation as to why doncic projects to be a better NBA player than Deandre Ayton or MPJ. Thats what everyone is claiming when they say number 1 overall.

[OhCanada-Participant]

Deandre Ayton was born in the Bahamas. Played for the World team at hoopsummit. I know he went to an Amurican highschool and Amurican college but just sayin.

[The GoatParticipant]

 Doncic has years of professional experience in European club and national teams. Hes won at every level and has been MVP multiple times. Hes 19. He sounds like he sucks to me.

 OhCanada has made the point Ayton is from the Bahamas. Once the realisation hits that the Bahamas arent part of the USA, he should tumble down the draft board too. 

[The GoatParticipant]

Id sincerely hope the most dominant players have come from the USA. You have  more registered players than anywhere else and its an American league. Doesnt mean Doncic cant play. Probably means he smarter and didnt get shot at at school though.

Anyway,  yeah scouts..  nba teams trust them so they can spend tens of millions on players, they probably all have no idea

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

 I kind of agree with the OP in that if you’re drafting someone with the 1st or 2nd pick, you want a potential hall-of-famer. And then you have to ask yourself, how many hall-of-fame Euro (or Australian) wings have there been? Manu. End of list. Peja was really good too.

Of course everything that happens has to happen for the first time. Maybe Doncic is that guy. But you have to think. You’re looking for a hall-of-famer. Ayton’s or Porter’s trajectory to the hall of fame is clear and understandable, with numerous precedents.  Doncic’s? Not so much.

 

 

 

[SubZeroParticipant]

Drazen Petrovic would’ve been one of the greats. Doncic has talked about how much he liked his game and that comparison has been made by a lot of people

[whiteflashParticipant]

 Who’s made that comparison? Petrovic was a scorer with his jumper set on auto who could post and defend. Doncic is a playmaker with a shifty handle. Their games are nothing alike. 

[OhCanada-Participant]

You say “how many hall-of-fame Euro (or Australian) wings have there been?”.

I say “how many Euro (or Australian) wing 19 year olds were Eurobasket champion, All-Eurobasket team, Euroleague Rising Star, Euroleague MVP, Euroleague champion, Euroleague Final Four MVP?”. Just one.

He has surpassed his predecessors by a wide margin. To expect him to fail living up to a top 3 selection because of his nationality, where he was raised or where he learned to play ball is stereotyping and boarderline rascist. If your doubts stem from his abillity or lack of such as his below elite athletisism or inconsistent jumpshot then I can respect your opinion.

I can easily say “how many hall-of-fame Bahamian born players have there been? Zero.” But thats just a terrible point because the only Bahamian NBA players ever were Rick Fox, Mychal Thompson and Buddy Hield and none of those guys are 7’1 275 pounds with 35+ inch verts that can shoot the 3 like Ayton.

[Robb_CParticipant]

 Doncic is very skilled, Hes 19 years old with very good footwork and has a great feel for the game..

My question is will he be able to translate his game in Europe to the NBA and I struggle to be convinced he will.. Defensively in the Eurobasket he was very codependent on his other teammates to bail him out when he lost position on his man attacking the basket..

NBA scouts have to notice this as well, you literally just run plays that create mismatches on him.. He’ll be so worn out on the offensive side it will take away from what hes good at..

Doncic has to lose 15 pounds like its extremely important for his production.. I believe if he can trim the weight hes going to be at least a bit more light on his feet.. which will help him stay on the floor..

He gets compared to Harden but Harden is the most conditioned offensive talent ive watched in a long time.. my knock on harden ia how long he holds the ball but hes a weapon and gets away with for that reason, Doncic if he ever wants to have that impact needs to really focus on adding quality size but that has to come years down the line.. He puts on weight to quickly and he’ll fuck up his muscle memory the exact same way markelle fultz did.

 

 

 

 

[jabbar_medvedenkoParticipant]

 I cannot believe what I’m reading. So a guy who: 

1) is the best player outside of the NBA at the age of 19. And don’t think NCAA is anywhere near Euroleague level.

2) won the Euroleague, was the best player/MVP

3) won the Euro Ch’ship, selected in the first team All-Euro at the age of 18 (!), ahead of guys like Marc Gasol, Porzingis, Ricky Rubio, Dennis Schroder who are all NBA stars/accomplished, starting-level NBA players.

gets you called a ‘dummy’. 

Terrific 3-level scorer with an array of moves who gets to the line at will and converts at an 80% clip, pick-and-roll maestro who’s always 2 plays ahead, very good team defender with a generational type basketball IQ, a 6-8 walking mismatch in a man body and a great rebounder for his size.

Averaging 16-5-4 in Euroleague in 25 mpg with 45/33/82 shooting line.. I don’t think anybody who doesn’t watch Euroleague realizes what that means. Once he gets into that NBA strength/conditioning program, the sky is the limit. And I’m talking about James Harden type of heights. 

If you think Marvin Bagley/Mohamed Bamba or DeAndre Ayton could do these things, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

[kobyzParticipant]

everybody overlook his main attribute which is being a true pg who control the pace and make everyone around him better in the mold of Jason Kidd…

[holefillers1Participant]

 In an increasingly position-less league, the more positions you can play the better.  Offensively Doncic can play 1-3 and even 1-4 in the small ball sets.  He won’t be removed from the court for matchup purposes EVER.  He is no lockdown defender but he is a smart player capable of switching on the perimeter and getting a hand in passing lanes.   He is the prototypical player who is now ttaking over the league…and he is 19.  You will see a similar skill set in many American prospects as well.  Cameron Reddish is a fine example of that.  Guys like Dario Saric aren’t getting stuck in a clear out situation, guarding Jordan or Kobe while eight guys stand in the corner and watch.  Euros are easily incorporated into today’s NBA and many teams are building their offenses around them using space and passing

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

When is the last time a European guard came in at that age and made an impact?!?! Luka the donkey Doncic will be nothing but an average player in the league. The suns better not drop the ball here. Ayton is a franchise changer.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LrWpGP19gTA

He makes the best defender in this draft look terrible.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 I think Doncic is going to be great in the NBA – he’s a natural playmaker – has good size – yes he lcaks athleticism & won;t be great on Defense – most of the players in the NBA are not great on defense

In a League more & more focused on running "Actions" dependent on complicated screens & pin downs rather than running Iso’s the teams Point GUard or Point Forward MUST be a Problem Solver & Doncic Clearly has an Amazing Aptitude to read defenses & make quick decisions to find solutions for his teammates 

But one thing DOncic is Not is a Great shooter – he shot 33% from 3pt range this year & I’m sure he’ll improve but he is not a guy you even want taking a lot of shots – just enught to keep the Defense honest, he is the Quarterback not the scorer & that is Fine

Drzan was one of the BEST 3pt shooters in NBA History – Petrovic was a Career 44% – 3pt shooter – that’s a Career Avg. & he died at 28 years old (so sad!)

 

 

 

[mowestenParticipant]

 The harsh reality is that fans hold overseas players accountable for their failures, and often never forget, while American born stars can be bums and nobody really even remembers.

Fans perception is also heavily influenced by what they regard as really good basketball and a proving ground, the NCAA, which in truth, in the grand scheme of things, isn’t that great. 

I think it would surprise some people to learn that about 1/4 of NBA teams’ best players (arguably) is foriegn born. Obviously, I’ll grant that some of these can be argued as to who their team’s best player is …

ATL — Schroeder
MIA — Dragic
ORL — Fournier
MIL — Giannis

PHI — Simmons

NY — Porzingis

MEM — Gasol

DEN — Jokic

Many of the Euro guys now are coming to the state’s for a year or two before the NBA to become integrated into the culture and people kinda forget that Markennan, Steven Adams, Ben Simmons, Marc Gasol, etc., grew up playing basketball elsewhere and often aren’t included in the perception debate.

There are actually a few budding foriegn born stars, something that has long been held against drafting foreign born guys, Giannis, Simmons, Porzingis, Jurkic, and I think in time, that list is only going to grow.

 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 If anybody reminds me of Drazen Petrovic in this draft it is Donte Inferno.

If anybody reminds me of a polarizing, shifty, solidly athletic James Harden type it’s Grayson Allen.

Luka reminds me of Draymond Green (at least on offense, build, and demeanor), who if get’s Dray’s team/1 on 1 defense would be a super high level NBA player.  With Luka being better at the step-back 3.  

With Luka though you have to live with some off balance 30 footers, questionable decisions as far as shooting/passing goes, and maybe not enough rebounds/steals/defensive stops every night a la Jason Williams aka White Chocolate.

If Luka can put together the GOOD Dray stuff along with the GOOD J-Will stuff then you have an All Star, maybe not an MVP, but an All Star.

I think next year, you either play him at power forward or bring him off the bench as a super 6th man.

But yeah, I would almost red shirt the guy a year, and have him work out full-time with Tim Grover (MJ’s and Kobe’s old trainer).

I know a lot of Lukaholics think you can plug him in right away and he could start for the Cavs/Celtics/Warriors/Rockets, but I think he is a year away from being a year away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[antiwork3000Participant]

Foreign trained players are taught to play the right way. Not influenced by AAU and other crap. So of course the top foreign players are going to have good careers. Every time there is a World vs USA game, World always wins. UsA always have more athletic players but Wolrd plays like a team.

[R4unoParticipant]

 I’ve grown tired of defending Luka from people who don’t watch Euroleague and underestimate every part of his game, so I’m not going to get started with that. However, I’d like to talk about the ridiculous comparisons for Luka that have been made here and also in other threads. "I can go on and on the young euro players theyve hyped up (rubio, exum, hezonja etc.)" – so let’s first look at what Luka has done so far. He’s won everything possible in Europe – European Championships, Euroleague, Euroleague MVP and some smaller titles and awards. He led Real Madrid to the Euroleague championship, averaging 16 points, 4.8 rebounds and 4.3 assists, shooting 45% from the field, being the best player in the entire league. Rubio at the same age averaged 6.8 points, 2.8 rebounds and 4.1 assists and shot 37% from the field, also playing for the league-winning team, but being nowhere near the MVP level. That was enough to get selected 5th in a pretty strong draft, which was a lot higher than where he should have gone of course, but still shows that Luka should go higher than that because he’s so much more complete player at the same age.

As there is at least something to compare when talking about Luka and Rubio, the other two comparisons are just ridiculous. Hezonja wasn’t even a starter in Euroleague before coming to the NBA, and I’m pretty sure Europeans also talked a lot about his weaknesses before the draft and he was always going to be a gamble for Orlando. I mean, 21-year-old Alex Abrines was constantly being favoured to him in his final Euroleague season, and Abrines was never going to be more than a role player in the NBA.

The Exum comparison was just horrible. He’s from Australia, Europeans didn’t know much about him before the draft. Also, he had never even played in a pro league. There’s just nothing to compare to Luka who is the reigning MVP of the 2nd-best league in the world. He was a project all along and we definitely haven’t still seen his full capabilities because of the injuries.

Luka is a player who has already shown he can play at the highest level. Of course we can’t say he’s a future NBA MVP by his performances in Euroleague, but he’s shown he can be a contributor right away and definitely won’t be a bust if he stays healthy. Luka has shown he’s worth consideration to go first in the draft and if he shows the Suns in the predraft workouts he’s a better option for them than Ayton, the Suns will make a good decision by taking him.

[The GoatParticipant]

 Hes actually most similar in most aspects offensively to Draymond Green, but a bit better a shooter, ball handler and passer. Hes clearly a much worse defender and not as athletic. Hes still capable on that end, but hes nowhere near Green, plus hes strictly a perimeter defender. At 19, thats an exceptional base as someone beginning as an NBA player. 

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