[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

Just happened.. Wait for it……….

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

JR Smith to Cleveland

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

I’m not believing JR Smith until Adam Silver himself verifies the trade. 

[220Participant]

If the Cavs are taking JR Smith back, then I wonder if they are getting a big man in the deal because it doesn’t make a ton of sense otherwise.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Knicks are rumored to be cutting Dalembert by January 10th when the rest of his contract is up. Could be some wink wink going on to get a big. 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Knicks are rumored to be cutting Dalembert by January 10th when the rest of his contract is up. Could be some wink wink going on to get a big. 

[220Participant]

If the Cavs are taking JR Smith back, then I wonder if they are getting a big man in the deal because it doesn’t make a ton of sense otherwise.

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

I’m not believing JR Smith until Adam Silver himself verifies the trade. 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

JR Smith to Cleveland

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 Say it ain’t so….

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 Say it ain’t so….

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

Cleveland certainly wish they had drafted differently that year, imagine if they had Drummond instead.

It was a trade that had to happen, Waiters was a disruption on and off the court, and with his terrible outside shooting he was never going to help James and Irving by spreading the floor.

Will be interesting to see who the Cavs get.

 

 

 

  

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

Cleveland certainly wish they had drafted differently that year, imagine if they had Drummond instead.

It was a trade that had to happen, Waiters was a disruption on and off the court, and with his terrible outside shooting he was never going to help James and Irving by spreading the floor.

Will be interesting to see who the Cavs get.

 

 

 

  

[cryan03Participant]

 Cleveland gets – JR Smith & Iman Shumpert

OKC gets – Dion Waiters

NYK gets – Reggie Jackson

 

 

[220Participant]

Brian Windhorst is reporting now that multiple sources say Reggie Jackson isn’t heading to the Knicks. 

 

[220Participant]

Brian Windhorst is reporting now that multiple sources say Reggie Jackson isn’t heading to the Knicks. 

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Not a bad trade for anyone invovled. Hardaway Jr gets more playing time, the Knicks lose Smith’s contract for next year and the Cavs get what Waiters could have been at his best if he developed perfectly (JR Smith on O and Shumpert on D)(he will never meet that ceiling and certainly wouldn’t have in Cleveland. OKC gets to avoid going into the tax for Jackson who is going to want 9 to 12 million a year. 

OKC is Sarver like on the ownership side. KD is outta there. You ask me its a great deal for the Knicks. CThey can move Calderon or keep him, he deserves 11 million when healthy, can choose to resign Jackson (unlikely) or let him walk or sign and trade. 

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

Not a bad trade for anyone invovled. Hardaway Jr gets more playing time, the Knicks lose Smith’s contract for next year and the Cavs get what Waiters could have been at his best if he developed perfectly (JR Smith on O and Shumpert on D)(he will never meet that ceiling and certainly wouldn’t have in Cleveland. OKC gets to avoid going into the tax for Jackson who is going to want 9 to 12 million a year. 

OKC is Sarver like on the ownership side. KD is outta there. You ask me its a great deal for the Knicks. CThey can move Calderon or keep him, he deserves 11 million when healthy, can choose to resign Jackson (unlikely) or let him walk or sign and trade. 

 

[cryan03Participant]

 Cleveland gets – JR Smith & Iman Shumpert

OKC gets – Dion Waiters

NYK gets – Reggie Jackson

 

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 I wish it was to the Sixer’s, he’d get to go home and gun like no other. I have been avoiding buying the League Pass because they won’t cut the price. I assume after 41 games or at least by All Star Break they will make it $99.

I have been streaming non local or national games but I hate the quality, if Waiters is traded I will have to shell out for the League Pass. 

 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 I wish it was to the Sixer’s, he’d get to go home and gun like no other. I have been avoiding buying the League Pass because they won’t cut the price. I assume after 41 games or at least by All Star Break they will make it $99.

I have been streaming non local or national games but I hate the quality, if Waiters is traded I will have to shell out for the League Pass. 

 

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Shumpert as well to Cleveland.. Reggie Jackson to NY.. Waiters to OKC

[Taylor Gang MikeParticipant]

 Shumpert as well to Cleveland.. Reggie Jackson to NY.. Waiters to OKC

[festar35Participant]

I think Dalembert is involved somewhere

[festar35Participant]

I think Dalembert is involved somewhere

[r377Participant]

I had a feeling Waiters might get traded (due to all the rumors) but i thought cleveland would of gone for a defensive big like Brandon Wright or John Henson.

If there were issues with Waiters, how is JR Smith going to be any different ?

[r377Participant]

I had a feeling Waiters might get traded (due to all the rumors) but i thought cleveland would of gone for a defensive big like Brandon Wright or John Henson.

If there were issues with Waiters, how is JR Smith going to be any different ?

[nick5354Participant]

Please don’t let this be true. So we trade a player who has terrible shot selection and low basketball IQ for another.

If this is true I’ll be extremely disappointed.

[nick5354Participant]

Please don’t let this be true. So we trade a player who has terrible shot selection and low basketball IQ for another.

If this is true I’ll be extremely disappointed.

[cryan03Participant]

 What I don’t get about this trade for CLE is they traded probably there biggest trade asset in Waiters without getting a rim protector which is something they needed more than another wing IMO. I’m assuming they took Smith to get Shumpert.

I actually like the move for NYK – with trading JR and Shump you free up time to play Hardaway and develop him and now they get a future PG in Reggie Jackson who I think is much better than Larkin and can play along side Calderon and I think should play over Calderon.

Honestly don’t know how I feel about this trade for OKC. Are they really going to go with Ish Smith as the backup PG for the rest of the season? With Waiters – does this mean they have completely given up on Jeremy Lamb? Should be interesting to see if they make another move. 

 

 

[cryan03Participant]

 What I don’t get about this trade for CLE is they traded probably there biggest trade asset in Waiters without getting a rim protector which is something they needed more than another wing IMO. I’m assuming they took Smith to get Shumpert.

I actually like the move for NYK – with trading JR and Shump you free up time to play Hardaway and develop him and now they get a future PG in Reggie Jackson who I think is much better than Larkin and can play along side Calderon and I think should play over Calderon.

Honestly don’t know how I feel about this trade for OKC. Are they really going to go with Ish Smith as the backup PG for the rest of the season? With Waiters – does this mean they have completely given up on Jeremy Lamb? Should be interesting to see if they make another move. 

 

 

[nick5354Participant]

What does Shumpert bring to the Cavs that Delly does not have?

They have both similar sizes, Shump being slightly taller and heavier. They have both really good defenders, I would say Shump is the better defender only on reputation, Delly is a really great defender. They are both solid 3 point shots and on the stats Delly is the better 3 point shooter. And I would say Delly is the better play maker off the bench, knows how to run an offense, your classic guard.

SO I am not sure trading Waiters for a similar player you already have on your roster and a player similar to what you traded away makes any sense whatsoever.

I only hope a big men is included in the deal.

[nick5354Participant]

What does Shumpert bring to the Cavs that Delly does not have?

They have both similar sizes, Shump being slightly taller and heavier. They have both really good defenders, I would say Shump is the better defender only on reputation, Delly is a really great defender. They are both solid 3 point shots and on the stats Delly is the better 3 point shooter. And I would say Delly is the better play maker off the bench, knows how to run an offense, your classic guard.

SO I am not sure trading Waiters for a similar player you already have on your roster and a player similar to what you traded away makes any sense whatsoever.

I only hope a big men is included in the deal.

[JCliff24Participant]

 Regardless of his similarities to Delly, you get rid of a chucker and replace him with a great defender, which Cleveland desperately needs.

[nick5354Participant]

But you replace a chucker with another chucker.

The benefits to upgrading Delly to Shump is pretty minimal, and to me is not worthy of trading Waiters. Delly is a terrific defender, only bonus is Shup can guard 3s more effectively and big 2s.

[nick5354Participant]

But you replace a chucker with another chucker.

The benefits to upgrading Delly to Shump is pretty minimal, and to me is not worthy of trading Waiters. Delly is a terrific defender, only bonus is Shup can guard 3s more effectively and big 2s.

[Ny2daDeathOFmeParticipant]

 You  fail to realize j.r Smith is a way better spot up shooter than waiters and a motivated Smith is a good scorer in this league , something the Cavs could use. Also since coming back from injury Smith has been on fire from downtown. Be happy , you could be a Knicks fan right now

[Ny2daDeathOFmeParticipant]

 You  fail to realize j.r Smith is a way better spot up shooter than waiters and a motivated Smith is a good scorer in this league , something the Cavs could use. Also since coming back from injury Smith has been on fire from downtown. Be happy , you could be a Knicks fan right now

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 I love Delly to but he has been torched this year. 

[TheArtistPaysthePriceParticipant]

 I love Delly to but he has been torched this year. 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Bingo you replace a chucker with another chucker. Worst case scenario your stuck with a chucker and you bench him because you’ve added Shump for depth. Best case scenario you get the new chucker to do what the old chucker just wouldn’t do. Stop chucking and use his scoring and playmaking skills to benefit the team. It wasn’t working before so its worth a shake up.

Only problem to me is they should have targeted some size in the frontcourt. I cannot confidently say the Cavs can win a 7-game series against a healthy Bulls, Wizards, or Raptors team without some more size. Particularly Gasol, Gortat and Valanciunas will shread these guys. Even Atlanta and Miami would give them fits in the postseason.

The season is still young and a whole lot can change in a short time.

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Bingo you replace a chucker with another chucker. Worst case scenario your stuck with a chucker and you bench him because you’ve added Shump for depth. Best case scenario you get the new chucker to do what the old chucker just wouldn’t do. Stop chucking and use his scoring and playmaking skills to benefit the team. It wasn’t working before so its worth a shake up.

Only problem to me is they should have targeted some size in the frontcourt. I cannot confidently say the Cavs can win a 7-game series against a healthy Bulls, Wizards, or Raptors team without some more size. Particularly Gasol, Gortat and Valanciunas will shread these guys. Even Atlanta and Miami would give them fits in the postseason.

The season is still young and a whole lot can change in a short time.

 

 

[JCliff24Participant]

 Regardless of his similarities to Delly, you get rid of a chucker and replace him with a great defender, which Cleveland desperately needs.

[Ny2daDeathOFmeParticipant]

 As a Knicks fan all we got is cap space. It’s gonna be funny when we don’t sign any big names next season and word is Reggie Jackson is going to the Cavs as well . We gave up on shumpert too soon just for cap space wtf. As far as I’m concerned Fisher and Phil Jackson has gotten a F so far . I’m sure Mike woodson could’ve gotten more wins by now.

[username_takenParticipant]

 Jackson isn’t in the trade, but the Knicks also got a 1st rounder from the Thunder.

[DolanCareParticipant]

Don’t think the Knicks are getting any first-rounders unfortunately. The Thunder’s first rounder is going to the Cavs. The Knicks get a Cav 2nd rounder in 2019…..

All in all, I think the Knicks have gotten more back for Shumpert. I understand the need to unload cap space, but they would have had plenty with STAT and Bargnani gone. 

 

[DolanCareParticipant]

Don’t think the Knicks are getting any first-rounders unfortunately. The Thunder’s first rounder is going to the Cavs. The Knicks get a Cav 2nd rounder in 2019…..

All in all, I think the Knicks have gotten more back for Shumpert. I understand the need to unload cap space, but they would have had plenty with STAT and Bargnani gone. 

 

[username_takenParticipant]

 Jackson isn’t in the trade, but the Knicks also got a 1st rounder from the Thunder.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Why be pissed about this trade dude. Your team has 5 wins. Woodson wasn’t going to change that. This trade all but guarantees a top 5 pick. Melo needs to just sit the rest of the year, get you a Okafor or Mudiay and see if someone will bite with that $30mil in cap space.

[i’m jus so offendedParticipant]

Why be pissed about this trade dude. Your team has 5 wins. Woodson wasn’t going to change that. This trade all but guarantees a top 5 pick. Melo needs to just sit the rest of the year, get you a Okafor or Mudiay and see if someone will bite with that $30mil in cap space.

[Ny2daDeathOFmeParticipant]

 As a Knicks fan all we got is cap space. It’s gonna be funny when we don’t sign any big names next season and word is Reggie Jackson is going to the Cavs as well . We gave up on shumpert too soon just for cap space wtf. As far as I’m concerned Fisher and Phil Jackson has gotten a F so far . I’m sure Mike woodson could’ve gotten more wins by now.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Acquiring Waiters seems like maybe a backup plan for OKC since they’ll prob lose Jackson this summer. 

I like this move for the Knicks. They’re not going anywhere this season and Smith/Shump weren’t apart of the team’s future. They saved money, picked up a first round pick and opened up cap space for the summer.

While I was thinking the Cavs would get rim protection, I do like Smith’s ability to catch and shoot and Shump’s size/defense on the wing. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Acquiring Waiters seems like maybe a backup plan for OKC since they’ll prob lose Jackson this summer. 

I like this move for the Knicks. They’re not going anywhere this season and Smith/Shump weren’t apart of the team’s future. They saved money, picked up a first round pick and opened up cap space for the summer.

While I was thinking the Cavs would get rim protection, I do like Smith’s ability to catch and shoot and Shump’s size/defense on the wing. 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Some confusing things in the NBA right now, like the 76ers winning, and this trade takes a while to figure out.

Knicks did well, they clear a lot of spots and help with next year and the money available.  The biggest thing, they picked their shooting guard and Hardaway is very good.  This gets him minutes.  JR gone means some problems leave too, the coach would be happy with that.  Knicks get a draft pick, they have traded away many first so bringing in one must help.

Waiters for two other shooting guards, maybe the Cavs didn’t do anything wrong.  Shumpert can play, a better fit than Waiters was for the Cavs roster.  JR Smith, that makes things a bit wild there but if there are games when the offense doesn’t click then the Cavs can give JR a few minutes and if his shot is hot they keep him in or they just sit him if he bricks.

OKC, a first rounder for Waiters, that seems odd for them.  Lamb might be better, Jackson is better than Waiters, and OKC also have Roberson and Morrow was signed too.  

 

 

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 Some confusing things in the NBA right now, like the 76ers winning, and this trade takes a while to figure out.

Knicks did well, they clear a lot of spots and help with next year and the money available.  The biggest thing, they picked their shooting guard and Hardaway is very good.  This gets him minutes.  JR gone means some problems leave too, the coach would be happy with that.  Knicks get a draft pick, they have traded away many first so bringing in one must help.

Waiters for two other shooting guards, maybe the Cavs didn’t do anything wrong.  Shumpert can play, a better fit than Waiters was for the Cavs roster.  JR Smith, that makes things a bit wild there but if there are games when the offense doesn’t click then the Cavs can give JR a few minutes and if his shot is hot they keep him in or they just sit him if he bricks.

OKC, a first rounder for Waiters, that seems odd for them.  Lamb might be better, Jackson is better than Waiters, and OKC also have Roberson and Morrow was signed too.  

 

 

 

 

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

 Sam Presti once again worked his magic in this trade and once again walked away with a steal. This trade was brilliant for OKC and should really push them over the top.

The Cavs offense is very questionable right now and they seem to have no idea what they are doing. If they are going to have so many iso players, they need to have a stable and suitable offense. Otherwise we will see what happened with them and an inability to incorporate Waiters. 

So OKC now gets Waiters, a team that is centered around having 3 to 4 players running iso’s 60% of the time and everyone working around that. 

Waiters himself has proven he is a legit option and quality starter in the NBA. Young, still developing (which now takes a new turn since he will be constantly competing against KD and Westbrook), good skill set, high talent and seems to be a fairly driven player. He fits the OKC player model very well. 

Waiters will most likely get 20+ minutes his first couple of games, while being an offensive focus(As a quick crash corse to the team, and i think KD/Westbrook get excited to show off depth talent) as part of the second unit. He probably wont be a starter as that seems to be for Thabo 2.0 (Roberson) but within seven to nine games we will see him averaging starter or near starter minutes. For a while now, OKC has been trying to cut Westbrook’s, KD’s and Ibaka’s minutes down without losing any major production. Between the 1,2 and 3 there should be plenty of minutes to give to Roberson, Waiters and Morrow. I did not include Lamb because Lamb is done on this team. He has been getting more DNP’s then P’s lately and that has been a result of him being massively inconsistent and also the reason why they pulled the trigger on this trade. So, expect to see Lamb either be traded, given away for an exemption or sent to the DLeague until a trade or cash exemption can be found. 

I’d also like to point out to some people that Jackson is probably resigning with OKC. The NBA has a massive over-saturation of these really good back up or 6th man type point guards. Given that Jackson was unable to lead the team to anything better than 25%, that definitely took any kind of added value he may have had, and erased it. If we use Bledsoe as a marker for PGs in FA, then Jackson is below him and OKC can still offer him more then anyone else even if they do this through the contract added year (its not like Jackson is of a talent that we can suggest the "lost" year by signing with another team, can be made up in his next contract). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

 Sam Presti once again worked his magic in this trade and once again walked away with a steal. This trade was brilliant for OKC and should really push them over the top.

The Cavs offense is very questionable right now and they seem to have no idea what they are doing. If they are going to have so many iso players, they need to have a stable and suitable offense. Otherwise we will see what happened with them and an inability to incorporate Waiters. 

So OKC now gets Waiters, a team that is centered around having 3 to 4 players running iso’s 60% of the time and everyone working around that. 

Waiters himself has proven he is a legit option and quality starter in the NBA. Young, still developing (which now takes a new turn since he will be constantly competing against KD and Westbrook), good skill set, high talent and seems to be a fairly driven player. He fits the OKC player model very well. 

Waiters will most likely get 20+ minutes his first couple of games, while being an offensive focus(As a quick crash corse to the team, and i think KD/Westbrook get excited to show off depth talent) as part of the second unit. He probably wont be a starter as that seems to be for Thabo 2.0 (Roberson) but within seven to nine games we will see him averaging starter or near starter minutes. For a while now, OKC has been trying to cut Westbrook’s, KD’s and Ibaka’s minutes down without losing any major production. Between the 1,2 and 3 there should be plenty of minutes to give to Roberson, Waiters and Morrow. I did not include Lamb because Lamb is done on this team. He has been getting more DNP’s then P’s lately and that has been a result of him being massively inconsistent and also the reason why they pulled the trigger on this trade. So, expect to see Lamb either be traded, given away for an exemption or sent to the DLeague until a trade or cash exemption can be found. 

I’d also like to point out to some people that Jackson is probably resigning with OKC. The NBA has a massive over-saturation of these really good back up or 6th man type point guards. Given that Jackson was unable to lead the team to anything better than 25%, that definitely took any kind of added value he may have had, and erased it. If we use Bledsoe as a marker for PGs in FA, then Jackson is below him and OKC can still offer him more then anyone else even if they do this through the contract added year (its not like Jackson is of a talent that we can suggest the "lost" year by signing with another team, can be made up in his next contract). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

Let’s not pretend like Waiters is the player who will turn OKCs season upside down, although Presti did get a bargain getting Waiters for a protected 1st and sparsely used Lance Thomas. Really curious to see how Waiters will fit in with KD and Westbrook, seeing how difficult it was for him to fit in with LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland. Westbrook and KD are really dominant in terms of ball handling, leaving little space for Waiters to work with when he is on the floor together with them. However, he does give them a valid option when KD or Westbrook sit down, either as part of the rotation or due to injury. So yes, a good pick-up for the Thunder, but with the important remark that we have to see how he will fit in, also attitude-wise.

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

Let’s not pretend like Waiters is the player who will turn OKCs season upside down, although Presti did get a bargain getting Waiters for a protected 1st and sparsely used Lance Thomas. Really curious to see how Waiters will fit in with KD and Westbrook, seeing how difficult it was for him to fit in with LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland. Westbrook and KD are really dominant in terms of ball handling, leaving little space for Waiters to work with when he is on the floor together with them. However, he does give them a valid option when KD or Westbrook sit down, either as part of the rotation or due to injury. So yes, a good pick-up for the Thunder, but with the important remark that we have to see how he will fit in, also attitude-wise.

[BravenewworldParticipant]

"Let’s not pretend like Waiters is the player who will turn OKCs season upside down"

Im not sure if anyone is suggesting anything other than OKC being contenders as it is. The idea of Waiters being added is a capable 3rd option in front of Ibaka. Or a viable sixth man who will put up Harden like numbers on this team. 

KD said it best in a tweet last night when he said that OKC will give Waiters something he has not felt in a while, value and to be needed. Ive seen so many people try to suggest that Waiters had issues adjusting to Lebron, when they seem to not understand the situation with Cleveland. It was not a situation of "Waiters not fitting in with LBJ or Irving" its a situation of Irving not fitting with Irving, Irving not fitting with LBJ, LBJ not fitting with LBJ, Love not fitting with LBJ, that whole offense is a disaster at best. The idea that this team has anything going for them is nothing but a delusion in people’s minds, mostly people who want to look at paper stats without considering the importance of chemistry. 

 

Its also worth mentioning that many of the "issues" people have had with Waiters and his compatability to OKC, is as off target as possible. Ive seen many comments about how many minutes they can give him and blah blah blah. This team has not been playing Lamb, but they wanted to. They have a regular rotation set up for him to get 22-27 minutes, and those rotation minutes will simply go to Waiters. In fact, they will probably be increased since Roberson will really take on the Thabo role that OKC had with the Thabo/Harden depth.

 

 

 

 

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

"Let’s not pretend like Waiters is the player who will turn OKCs season upside down"

Im not sure if anyone is suggesting anything other than OKC being contenders as it is. The idea of Waiters being added is a capable 3rd option in front of Ibaka. Or a viable sixth man who will put up Harden like numbers on this team. 

KD said it best in a tweet last night when he said that OKC will give Waiters something he has not felt in a while, value and to be needed. Ive seen so many people try to suggest that Waiters had issues adjusting to Lebron, when they seem to not understand the situation with Cleveland. It was not a situation of "Waiters not fitting in with LBJ or Irving" its a situation of Irving not fitting with Irving, Irving not fitting with LBJ, LBJ not fitting with LBJ, Love not fitting with LBJ, that whole offense is a disaster at best. The idea that this team has anything going for them is nothing but a delusion in people’s minds, mostly people who want to look at paper stats without considering the importance of chemistry. 

 

Its also worth mentioning that many of the "issues" people have had with Waiters and his compatability to OKC, is as off target as possible. Ive seen many comments about how many minutes they can give him and blah blah blah. This team has not been playing Lamb, but they wanted to. They have a regular rotation set up for him to get 22-27 minutes, and those rotation minutes will simply go to Waiters. In fact, they will probably be increased since Roberson will really take on the Thabo role that OKC had with the Thabo/Harden depth.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

"This trade was brilliant for OKC and should really push them over the top"

I disagree with the fact that Waiters will push them over the top. During his time in Cleveland he hasn’t shown me he will be the missing piece for the Thunder. His main quality is his ball handling and one-on-one game. In my opinion, that is not what OKC needs, which is something different than saying they can’t use a scorer from the bench. If OKC wants to make it to the Finals and win a title they still need someone that is able to play down low, someone who they can give the ball in the post and create to mix with the deadly perimeter and fastbreak games of Durant and Westbrook. Someone like Pau Gasol would have been a perfect signing for them, especially when having an elite defender as PF that can cover his back on D. As of right now, their (trade) options are very limited, maybe someone like Jefferson (injured and doubtfull Hornets want him gone) or Lopez (fragile and less of a go-to-guy).

[BravenewworldParticipant]

 OKC gave up a third string player and a late first for what amounts to, best case a star, most likely case a 6th man and worst case added depth. 

Yes, this is a "brlliant" move by Presti and really shows us how great of a GM he is. Never panicing, never forcing anything and waiting for the right and perfect trade. 

 

"wants to make it to the Finals and win a title they still need someone that is able to play down low"

Quick, past 10 titles, who has had that anymore than OKC does right now? 

No one… my bad, Bynum and the Lakers, although the Lakers won a title without him too.

The absolute need for a low post, inside presence is no longer a factor or favorable. The game has completely changed to where you don’t need that at all. You need low post defensive presence just so a team cannot exploit you and you can stop drives, but thats it. 

Also, you should pay attention to Adams right now, he’s ballin. He is a low post defensive beast and has developed a very impressive sky hook. 

 

 

" His main quality is his ball handling and one-on-one game."

Which is the EXACT same thing we said about Harden. The reason that was so effective was OKC had two starters constantly driving and attacking. Then, when one of them was benched or the other teams bench started to come in, Harden would come in and do the same thing. You cant look at a scouting report or video of Waiters and determine that he will some how not do exactly that. This team is set up to have 2 starting iso players, 2 bench isos and a fourth/fifth option starter. 

 

"Someone like Pau Gasol would have been a perfect signing for them"

No shit.

 Pau is a great signing for anyone. We can literally go down the list… Spurs, Warriors, Thunder……….Miami, Cleveland, Kings…… Knicks, 6ers, Jazz….. There is not a single team in the NBA that is not massively better with him. 

 

"As of right now, their (trade) options are very limited, maybe someone like Jefferson (injured and doubtfull Hornets want him gone) or Lopez (fragile and less of a go-to-guy)."

Their options are not limited because its a move they are not looking to make. Jefferson would be horrible for OKC and Lopez is defensive trash.  Im not sure why you want to suggest they need a center. Teams are simply not set up this way anymore, and OKC has a proven model that works and does not involve anything you’ve suggested. You also seem to be forgetting that they have Ibaka, who is easily a 20-10 on a team where he is not behind Westbrook and KD. Its very similar to Miami and Bosh, except Ibaka is a defensive beast. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

 OKC gave up a third string player and a late first for what amounts to, best case a star, most likely case a 6th man and worst case added depth. 

Yes, this is a "brlliant" move by Presti and really shows us how great of a GM he is. Never panicing, never forcing anything and waiting for the right and perfect trade. 

 

"wants to make it to the Finals and win a title they still need someone that is able to play down low"

Quick, past 10 titles, who has had that anymore than OKC does right now? 

No one… my bad, Bynum and the Lakers, although the Lakers won a title without him too.

The absolute need for a low post, inside presence is no longer a factor or favorable. The game has completely changed to where you don’t need that at all. You need low post defensive presence just so a team cannot exploit you and you can stop drives, but thats it. 

Also, you should pay attention to Adams right now, he’s ballin. He is a low post defensive beast and has developed a very impressive sky hook. 

 

 

" His main quality is his ball handling and one-on-one game."

Which is the EXACT same thing we said about Harden. The reason that was so effective was OKC had two starters constantly driving and attacking. Then, when one of them was benched or the other teams bench started to come in, Harden would come in and do the same thing. You cant look at a scouting report or video of Waiters and determine that he will some how not do exactly that. This team is set up to have 2 starting iso players, 2 bench isos and a fourth/fifth option starter. 

 

"Someone like Pau Gasol would have been a perfect signing for them"

No shit.

 Pau is a great signing for anyone. We can literally go down the list… Spurs, Warriors, Thunder……….Miami, Cleveland, Kings…… Knicks, 6ers, Jazz….. There is not a single team in the NBA that is not massively better with him. 

 

"As of right now, their (trade) options are very limited, maybe someone like Jefferson (injured and doubtfull Hornets want him gone) or Lopez (fragile and less of a go-to-guy)."

Their options are not limited because its a move they are not looking to make. Jefferson would be horrible for OKC and Lopez is defensive trash.  Im not sure why you want to suggest they need a center. Teams are simply not set up this way anymore, and OKC has a proven model that works and does not involve anything you’ve suggested. You also seem to be forgetting that they have Ibaka, who is easily a 20-10 on a team where he is not behind Westbrook and KD. Its very similar to Miami and Bosh, except Ibaka is a defensive beast. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

First of all, I agree on the fact that it is a good move, getting a quality piece for virtually nothing. However, I don’t agree it pushes them over the top like you said.

Regarding the low post presence; every year we see teams blazing through the regular season, beating teams at will at a blistering pace. But then the play-offs start, games slow down and have an off-shooting night from distance could mean the end of your postseason. Over the past ten years most teams that made it far into the postseason had at least one guy that could play down low and dominate; perhaps not on every possession, but when necessary these teams had someone who could go one-on-one in the post and get a high-percentage look. Apart from the aforementioned Lakers with Bynum AND Gasol (who are both brilliant in the post, not just scoring but also passing), teams like the Spurs (Duncan) and the Celtics (Garnett) had a guy like that, with especially the Spurs showing a different game in the postseason as compared to the regular season. Serge Ibaka is, although a very good player on D, not that guy. He lacks feeling in the post, both scoring and passing, although he does bring a nice outside shot to his game.

My opinion is that teams need at least one guy who can give them easy points, or draw the defense in for spacing on the perimeter, which is why I suggest OKC needs one of those guys (Jefferson). Your opinion is otherwise, and although the Heat showed a different way of winning, my opinion is that James in his prime (during their championship-run) was better at making his team win than Durant is (the same holds for Wade compared to Westbrook, and Bosh is obviously a better player than Ibaka imo).

At the end of the play-offs we can look back and see who’s opinion holds best: I believe for instance a team like GSW can only win if they have a healthy Bogut who can provide them with a low-post presence (scoring, but more drawing defenses in and passing to the perimeter).

[BravenewworldParticipant]

 1. I am suggesting OKC can already win a title. Waiters is simply that piece that really does wonders for them in terms of depth. 

 

2. You seem to be mixing the idea of good big men with good low post players. This is not the same. Of the past ten titles, Bynum and Shaq (i forgot him in Miami) are the only players to be major low post presence players (offensively) and Bynum was proven to be entirely unneeded. The rest of the big men, including KG at that time, where that split PF/SF shooting. Gasol. Bosh. Duncan. Sheed. Dirk. None of these players make a living, or even spend 30% of their time as offensive low post players. Ibaka, is exactly the same as some of these guys except better defensively. 

Again, the game has changed and there is no need for a big time low post game on offense. While it can help, if we are to actually go by recent history, you don’t win a title with a major low post presence. 

 

"My opinion is that teams need at least one guy who can give them easy points, or draw the defense in for spacing on the perimeter"

So, not only have we established that ht emajority of teams to win a title in recent history did not have this in the form of a low post center or PF. BUT….

What do you think KD and Westbrook do when they drive and command an entire defense collapse on them? Or Ibaka who will at least draw a double team the second he hits 15 feet?

Stop looking at this team in terms of whats on the paper and actually watch what they do. Because what you just described, is the reason OKC has been in the finals and been to virtually every WCFs in the past five years.

 

"Bosh is obviously a better player than Ibaka imo"

I mean…. offensively they are the same. 

Defensively Bosh sucks. 

So…….

 

"I believe for instance a team like GSW can only win if they have a healthy Bogut who can provide them with a low-post presence "

I actually agree. But, its not a lack of offense they need from the post. Its defense. Otherwise, teams will drive every single play and exploit them. That is why all the analysists talk about how important he is. Its also why many have suggested they take Lee and trade him for KG. To help ensure some kind of low post defense, added points are irrelevent on that team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

 1. I am suggesting OKC can already win a title. Waiters is simply that piece that really does wonders for them in terms of depth. 

 

2. You seem to be mixing the idea of good big men with good low post players. This is not the same. Of the past ten titles, Bynum and Shaq (i forgot him in Miami) are the only players to be major low post presence players (offensively) and Bynum was proven to be entirely unneeded. The rest of the big men, including KG at that time, where that split PF/SF shooting. Gasol. Bosh. Duncan. Sheed. Dirk. None of these players make a living, or even spend 30% of their time as offensive low post players. Ibaka, is exactly the same as some of these guys except better defensively. 

Again, the game has changed and there is no need for a big time low post game on offense. While it can help, if we are to actually go by recent history, you don’t win a title with a major low post presence. 

 

"My opinion is that teams need at least one guy who can give them easy points, or draw the defense in for spacing on the perimeter"

So, not only have we established that ht emajority of teams to win a title in recent history did not have this in the form of a low post center or PF. BUT….

What do you think KD and Westbrook do when they drive and command an entire defense collapse on them? Or Ibaka who will at least draw a double team the second he hits 15 feet?

Stop looking at this team in terms of whats on the paper and actually watch what they do. Because what you just described, is the reason OKC has been in the finals and been to virtually every WCFs in the past five years.

 

"Bosh is obviously a better player than Ibaka imo"

I mean…. offensively they are the same. 

Defensively Bosh sucks. 

So…….

 

"I believe for instance a team like GSW can only win if they have a healthy Bogut who can provide them with a low-post presence "

I actually agree. But, its not a lack of offense they need from the post. Its defense. Otherwise, teams will drive every single play and exploit them. That is why all the analysists talk about how important he is. Its also why many have suggested they take Lee and trade him for KG. To help ensure some kind of low post defense, added points are irrelevent on that team. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[benny15Participant]

I think you’re misunderstanding MHS. he’s not saying teams need a good low post player, he’s saying that they need someone who you can rely to post up and score on the block when perimeter shots and arent falling as well as dribble penetrations are getting cut off. its not as if posting-up would be the first option of that player, but rather have the ability to. the key argument you can make here is if Durant or Westbrook have developed a post game themselves. i dont know if they have or have not, but if its the former, then you can say that OKC already has that type of player.

again, he isnt saying that you need a big time low post player, nor is he saying you win a title with a major low post presence. he is saying that by looking at recent history, lets say the past decade, their has always been a player who could post up if shooting from outside or mid aint dropping and dribble penetration isnt working either.

that post player doesnt necesarily need to score in the post, he can pass as well, but the basket would still originate from posting up. the 2014 Spurs had Duncan and Diaw to be that guy and to a certain degree Tiago Splitter. the heat in 2013 and 2012 had LeBron filling that role. in 2011 it was Dirk for the Mavs with his one footed fade away. 2010 and 2009 the lakers had Gasol and Odom creating a ton in the post with their passing game. 2008 the celtics had KG, 2007 Duncan was that option again for the spurs, 2006 Shaq did it for Miami, 2005 Duncan again, 2004 it was Sheed for the pistons.

 thats the past decades championship teams, all having a post presence. they may not have scored in the post primarilly, but they still went there as part of their offensive schemes,to create basket directly or set up a shot with a pass. so we have now established that every team in the past decade has that post player option. 

obviously there will be more than one way to force a double, a superstar who is in unstoppable mode off the dribble would warrant such like what Westbrook and Durant do, but i dont know anyone who would double team Ibaka when he is basically a catch and shoot/finish option on option on offense. he’s an elite catch and shooter, but still just a catch and shooter. he doesnt take people off the dribble, his form of creating for others is through swinging the ball on offense or making a block that would lead to fast break. you dont double a guy whose only option is shoot and pass, you have one guy rotate to him and force the pass to stop the shot. 

stop looking at the team  on how Good they can be only but also recognize their short commings. each time they got eliminated in the play-offs, it was in clear cut fashion. no game 7s. they have won mostly 1 game per series in the ones they were eliminated from. 

outside of blocking shots, i dont know how much better defensively ibaka is over bosh. its not like he’s a shut down post defender, he doesnt even guard the opponents primary post presence, that responsibilities go to perkins and i suppose adams now. he is good because he blocks shot and can guard the pick and roll due to his mobility, but so can bosh. stop looking at the box scores and actually watch the game

and the warriors needing Bogut is actually on both sides of the court, not just defense. kerr has implemented a system that has the ball moving a lot in different areas, in the post and outside beyond the line and part of what makes that so smooth and hard to guard and Andrew’s ability to pass from the post or score. it helps gives more spacing in the outside when the defense have to play honest D in the post. 

[benny15Participant]

I think you’re misunderstanding MHS. he’s not saying teams need a good low post player, he’s saying that they need someone who you can rely to post up and score on the block when perimeter shots and arent falling as well as dribble penetrations are getting cut off. its not as if posting-up would be the first option of that player, but rather have the ability to. the key argument you can make here is if Durant or Westbrook have developed a post game themselves. i dont know if they have or have not, but if its the former, then you can say that OKC already has that type of player.

again, he isnt saying that you need a big time low post player, nor is he saying you win a title with a major low post presence. he is saying that by looking at recent history, lets say the past decade, their has always been a player who could post up if shooting from outside or mid aint dropping and dribble penetration isnt working either.

that post player doesnt necesarily need to score in the post, he can pass as well, but the basket would still originate from posting up. the 2014 Spurs had Duncan and Diaw to be that guy and to a certain degree Tiago Splitter. the heat in 2013 and 2012 had LeBron filling that role. in 2011 it was Dirk for the Mavs with his one footed fade away. 2010 and 2009 the lakers had Gasol and Odom creating a ton in the post with their passing game. 2008 the celtics had KG, 2007 Duncan was that option again for the spurs, 2006 Shaq did it for Miami, 2005 Duncan again, 2004 it was Sheed for the pistons.

 thats the past decades championship teams, all having a post presence. they may not have scored in the post primarilly, but they still went there as part of their offensive schemes,to create basket directly or set up a shot with a pass. so we have now established that every team in the past decade has that post player option. 

obviously there will be more than one way to force a double, a superstar who is in unstoppable mode off the dribble would warrant such like what Westbrook and Durant do, but i dont know anyone who would double team Ibaka when he is basically a catch and shoot/finish option on option on offense. he’s an elite catch and shooter, but still just a catch and shooter. he doesnt take people off the dribble, his form of creating for others is through swinging the ball on offense or making a block that would lead to fast break. you dont double a guy whose only option is shoot and pass, you have one guy rotate to him and force the pass to stop the shot. 

stop looking at the team  on how Good they can be only but also recognize their short commings. each time they got eliminated in the play-offs, it was in clear cut fashion. no game 7s. they have won mostly 1 game per series in the ones they were eliminated from. 

outside of blocking shots, i dont know how much better defensively ibaka is over bosh. its not like he’s a shut down post defender, he doesnt even guard the opponents primary post presence, that responsibilities go to perkins and i suppose adams now. he is good because he blocks shot and can guard the pick and roll due to his mobility, but so can bosh. stop looking at the box scores and actually watch the game

and the warriors needing Bogut is actually on both sides of the court, not just defense. kerr has implemented a system that has the ball moving a lot in different areas, in the post and outside beyond the line and part of what makes that so smooth and hard to guard and Andrew’s ability to pass from the post or score. it helps gives more spacing in the outside when the defense have to play honest D in the post. 

[benny15Participant]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but dont in that Bosh is obviously a better player than Serge. he’s a better scorer clearly. also a better one on one player, but almost everything else is a wash in my oppinion. and Ibaka himself has definied himself as a better shot blocker. and with the NBA today in the form of teams needing to be more than the sum of their parts, you can argue that more teams could preffer Ibaka over Bosh to add to their team.

its just like during the Phoenix Suns Nash lead years, they took a survey from GMs and asked if they could have one Sun player who it would be and the name that got mentioned the most was Shawn Marion. essentially because he doesnt take anything away from the offense while giving all positives on defense.

bosh maybe the supperior player, but if his role will be like playing with lebron and wade where he will catch and shoot and go for boards on offense and guard the pick and roll on d, then Ibaka should be equally effective in that role while being the supperior shot blocker. now if its to help create the offense, bosh would be better, but most teams already have their key options and getting outstanding role players could benefit them more than adding another all-star talent who wont be able to maximize his game due to having to share the ball with the other all-star talents of the team. 

 

 

[benny15Participant]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but dont in that Bosh is obviously a better player than Serge. he’s a better scorer clearly. also a better one on one player, but almost everything else is a wash in my oppinion. and Ibaka himself has definied himself as a better shot blocker. and with the NBA today in the form of teams needing to be more than the sum of their parts, you can argue that more teams could preffer Ibaka over Bosh to add to their team.

its just like during the Phoenix Suns Nash lead years, they took a survey from GMs and asked if they could have one Sun player who it would be and the name that got mentioned the most was Shawn Marion. essentially because he doesnt take anything away from the offense while giving all positives on defense.

bosh maybe the supperior player, but if his role will be like playing with lebron and wade where he will catch and shoot and go for boards on offense and guard the pick and roll on d, then Ibaka should be equally effective in that role while being the supperior shot blocker. now if its to help create the offense, bosh would be better, but most teams already have their key options and getting outstanding role players could benefit them more than adding another all-star talent who wont be able to maximize his game due to having to share the ball with the other all-star talents of the team. 

 

 

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

First of all, I agree on the fact that it is a good move, getting a quality piece for virtually nothing. However, I don’t agree it pushes them over the top like you said.

Regarding the low post presence; every year we see teams blazing through the regular season, beating teams at will at a blistering pace. But then the play-offs start, games slow down and have an off-shooting night from distance could mean the end of your postseason. Over the past ten years most teams that made it far into the postseason had at least one guy that could play down low and dominate; perhaps not on every possession, but when necessary these teams had someone who could go one-on-one in the post and get a high-percentage look. Apart from the aforementioned Lakers with Bynum AND Gasol (who are both brilliant in the post, not just scoring but also passing), teams like the Spurs (Duncan) and the Celtics (Garnett) had a guy like that, with especially the Spurs showing a different game in the postseason as compared to the regular season. Serge Ibaka is, although a very good player on D, not that guy. He lacks feeling in the post, both scoring and passing, although he does bring a nice outside shot to his game.

My opinion is that teams need at least one guy who can give them easy points, or draw the defense in for spacing on the perimeter, which is why I suggest OKC needs one of those guys (Jefferson). Your opinion is otherwise, and although the Heat showed a different way of winning, my opinion is that James in his prime (during their championship-run) was better at making his team win than Durant is (the same holds for Wade compared to Westbrook, and Bosh is obviously a better player than Ibaka imo).

At the end of the play-offs we can look back and see who’s opinion holds best: I believe for instance a team like GSW can only win if they have a healthy Bogut who can provide them with a low-post presence (scoring, but more drawing defenses in and passing to the perimeter).

[Mr. HookShotParticipant]

"This trade was brilliant for OKC and should really push them over the top"

I disagree with the fact that Waiters will push them over the top. During his time in Cleveland he hasn’t shown me he will be the missing piece for the Thunder. His main quality is his ball handling and one-on-one game. In my opinion, that is not what OKC needs, which is something different than saying they can’t use a scorer from the bench. If OKC wants to make it to the Finals and win a title they still need someone that is able to play down low, someone who they can give the ball in the post and create to mix with the deadly perimeter and fastbreak games of Durant and Westbrook. Someone like Pau Gasol would have been a perfect signing for them, especially when having an elite defender as PF that can cover his back on D. As of right now, their (trade) options are very limited, maybe someone like Jefferson (injured and doubtfull Hornets want him gone) or Lopez (fragile and less of a go-to-guy).

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Smith has excelled off the bench in the 6th man role before. He has proved to be capable of filling that role on a playoff team.

Shump starts and Smith leads the 2nd unit. They just doubled up their depth at the SG position. Let’s face it the Waiters the situation was not working. 

Waiters is a good replacement for Jackson longterm. Shorterm they get both players for this playoff run. They don’t mind guys that thrive in iso  situations I wouldn’t be surprised if they bring Dion off the bench as offensive support in the 2nd unit which has been inconsistent and Waiters is just as capable playing the combo gaurd role as Jackson. This guy is talented let’s not forget.

In theory it works for all teams. This is an extremely interesting trade I can’t wait to see how the pieces fit over time. Lots of bust potential here as well.

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Smith has excelled off the bench in the 6th man role before. He has proved to be capable of filling that role on a playoff team.

Shump starts and Smith leads the 2nd unit. They just doubled up their depth at the SG position. Let’s face it the Waiters the situation was not working. 

Waiters is a good replacement for Jackson longterm. Shorterm they get both players for this playoff run. They don’t mind guys that thrive in iso  situations I wouldn’t be surprised if they bring Dion off the bench as offensive support in the 2nd unit which has been inconsistent and Waiters is just as capable playing the combo gaurd role as Jackson. This guy is talented let’s not forget.

In theory it works for all teams. This is an extremely interesting trade I can’t wait to see how the pieces fit over time. Lots of bust potential here as well.

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

Cavs : I cant wait to see LBJ flip out on JR Smith for taking bad shots. 

And oh man….. Irving and JR Smith… what a match made in basketball hell. Irving needs to learn how to be an actual point guard before they even consider bringing in a guy like Smith. 

Shump is a solid pick up as the Cavs need some kind of defense on the floor. 

The OKC pick will end up being a late 20s and the Cavs need picks no matter what, so, whatever.

 

Knicks:

Getting rid of JR Smith was an accomplishment alone. I did not think they would be able to pull that off at all. 

Shumpert.. Eh, Lance Thomas is a good swap for him. I actually get irritated with how overrated mediocre NYK players are. The same things we hear about Shumps value is the same we heard about say.. Fields. Fact is the guy is solid defender (B+) who is at best second string material offensively. He fits the starting 5 very well. 

Outside of Lance Thomas, if one of the other players works out for NYK, they should be thrilled that, that is what they got for JR Smith.

 

 

[BravenewworldParticipant]

Cavs : I cant wait to see LBJ flip out on JR Smith for taking bad shots. 

And oh man….. Irving and JR Smith… what a match made in basketball hell. Irving needs to learn how to be an actual point guard before they even consider bringing in a guy like Smith. 

Shump is a solid pick up as the Cavs need some kind of defense on the floor. 

The OKC pick will end up being a late 20s and the Cavs need picks no matter what, so, whatever.

 

Knicks:

Getting rid of JR Smith was an accomplishment alone. I did not think they would be able to pull that off at all. 

Shumpert.. Eh, Lance Thomas is a good swap for him. I actually get irritated with how overrated mediocre NYK players are. The same things we hear about Shumps value is the same we heard about say.. Fields. Fact is the guy is solid defender (B+) who is at best second string material offensively. He fits the starting 5 very well. 

Outside of Lance Thomas, if one of the other players works out for NYK, they should be thrilled that, that is what they got for JR Smith.

 

 

[r377Participant]

I am looking forward to seeing how Waiters goes in OKC. I know he had problems in Cleveland and complained of TT and Irving playing buddy ball together.

I wonder if OKC will play him a bit like Harden ? Come off the bench for some offense and to handle the ball a bit…..

[r377Participant]

I am looking forward to seeing how Waiters goes in OKC. I know he had problems in Cleveland and complained of TT and Irving playing buddy ball together.

I wonder if OKC will play him a bit like Harden ? Come off the bench for some offense and to handle the ball a bit…..

[Author]

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