[valentine]

On SportsCenter tonight, they were showing the Knicks-Celtics highlights and Boston was making a run in the 4th and they cut to D’Antoni talking to his team in the huddle, here is what he said:

 

"If we wanna win, I don’t think they can out-run us. How bad do we want it? How bad do we want it?"

Doc apparently called his team soft and they responded in a big way and took the game. D’Antoni on the other hand seems not to want to step on his "star" players toes. I don’t know if he’s gonna cut it. Call your f’ing team out. Tell them to play defense, not to run more. That’s just stupid, with Chauncy at the point, your strength should be HALF court offense. In the postgame, D’Antoni had this to say:

 

"A lot of times I have my idea of how I want to play and if we can’t do that we have to play some other way and I’m getting to a point where we have to figure something out. It’s not real good right now obviously."

 

For this Knicks team to succeed, they need a new head coach, plain and simple. They need their Doc Rivers or Tom Thibodeau or Doug Collins who can come in, be tough with his players and not be a push over basically, while still creating a bond with the team. Larry Brown anyone? He has experience with Mr. Big Shot and can handle the big market pressure. D’Antoni seems like a big d***-rider. We’ll see how they fare in the Playoffs but if they don’t make it out of the first round, get him out of there.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

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[RUDEBOY_Participant]

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[starpyParticipant]

The trade didnt just strip the team of its role players, it stripped it of its identity. New York was a successful run and gun team. They traded off there up tempo point guard, and their 3 point shooting, athletic swingmen. In return they got Melo, a great scorer, but one who stops the ball every time he touches it and is more halfcourt oriented on offense. They also got Chauncey Billups, who is more of a half court leader than a run and gun playmaker.

So now they are running a fast break oriented offense with two very half court driven players, which isnt meshing well at all.

As for defense 2 things, 1. When has DÁntoni ever stressed defense, that has been the wrap on him since his early days with Pheonix, he is very very offensively driven with little or no emphasis on defensive commitment.

2. Who on the knicks has ever shown a real talent for defense? Chauncey, Turiaf, and Jeffries are the only ones who have ever even shown any interest in commiting to the game defensivly. Toney Douglas plays D sometimes i suppose but not often enough. They just dont have alot of firepower defensively. Also, while Amare is high in blocked shots, that doesnt mean he is good defensively.

Those are just my thoughts anyways.

[RUDEBOY_Participant]

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[NYK2010Participant]

They lost giving up 99, 100 and 96 the last 3 games so to blame the defense makes lil sense.

This is why Dantoni not being involved in the trade was stupid too.  Its the coaches system and he’ll be here for a while, why.  Why would you trade away players that fit the system he uses.  The team lost its depth, they had a decent bench now Chandler, Mozgov are gone and replaced by Jeffries.  BTW Larry Brown really he won 1 Title in what 30 years coaching thanks to Detroit landing Rasheed Wallace for nothing.  Brown was awful in NY once already no need to bring him back.

[HotSnotParticipant]

If this was Lebron, Wade, Boozer, Bosh or any number of other "stars" the Knicks wouldn’t be faced with this problem.  People need to quit saying "give it time".  This Knicks team is flawed and undermanned after the trade and Melo has never been as good as advertised.  Deron Williams helped get the Nets a 5 game winning streak after his trade… The Nets! of all teams.  Denver has instantly become a better team with their upgraded roster, ability to share the ball and hustle team defense.  Melo has brought alot of me first attitude to the Knicks.  Melo’s shot selection sucks, he plays too much one on one and I don’t think I have ever seen him "swing" the ball around the perimeter since he’s been in the league.  Melo’s game comes off feeling "forced" and his overabundance of late game offensive charging fouls would seem to back that up.  The reason why so many thought this was a bad trade for the Knicks is because Melo simply isn’t a franchise altering talent.  There, I said it.  He’s not even an average NBA athlete and although his skill level is high it is not condusive to team play.  He’s a good player, but the Knicks traded 3 good players for him.  3 good players who are not so easily replaced even if the Knicks had draft picks or wanted to make trades.  3 good players who could hoist 20 shots a game and come up with similar numbers Anothony does.  Many people have drastically under estimated how good Chandler, Felton and Gallinari actually are.  It is amazing that the Nuggets, with so little leverage managed to swindle the Knicks into such a lopsided deal.  Dolan went out of his way to say Thomas had nothing to do with this trade but it stinks of the type of trade the Knicks made in seasons past prior to Walsh’s arrival when Thomas was pulling the strings.  The Knicks are a joke…AGAIN and there is ZERO chance of them making it out of the first round of the playoffs.  I was sure it was going to come down to the Knicks adapting to Melo instead of Melo adapting to the Knicks and here we are.

4 years from now I bet this trade goes down as one of the worst in league history.   

Here’s what happens now.  First round exit this season.  Resign Billups to a more affordable contract and use the remaining cap space to get some size/fill out the roster.  First round exit again next season.  Paul isn’t coming in 2012.  First round exit in 2013.  This is what 3 years of dumping contracts is going to get the Knicks.  A 3 year plan that couldn’t afford any dramatic setbacks and which was thrown out the window by an impatient Owner and his BFF.  Good luck building your championship team with no trade assets, little cap space, barely any future picks and relying on MELO to be your 1A option on offense and a whiney little B$tch on defense.  Melo just doesn’t play well with others.  This is your New reality Knicks fans.  Thanks Mr. Dolan!

[mj23mj23besteverParticipant]

i called this out when the trade happned that the knicks gave up entirely too much in the trade and now its showing thanx mr dolan and enjoy being an average team wiht your two stars

[nyk92Participant]

 Everyone has to relax about the knicks. There is no need to panic. the knicks have been playing as a team for only a few weeks. The heat have been playing since the summer and they still havent fully figured out the way to play together on a nightly basis.  They have two of the best offensive players in the league who could be good defenders. Amare is already a great weak side defender, however he could be the worst on ball defender in the league. Melo has shown that he can lock down if he needs to. As for role players, I am sure the knicks will get some guys in the offseason and work it all out.

That being said, if we have such talented players like Carmelo and Stoudemire, why can’t they play great defense at the end of the game? Because they arent taught that. Dantoni is the real problem for the knicks. not role players. We need time to get those, give it one full season. Dantoni couldnt control the team for the end of the game and couldnt draw up a play for the knicks to get an open shot or even bring the ball past the foul line for the last 3 minuites. The celtics showed the knicks what a true "TEAM" is. The knicks under the current mike dantoni system, seem to be a bunch of guys playing pickup ball. 

 

[TallmanNYCParticipant]

 @HotSnot – I totally agree that I can’t believe how much Denver got in that trade without any leverage. I really think as soon as Dolan got involved, they knew they had a sucker on the line. Also, Denver may have gotten lucky because their own owner really really thought Anthony was that good (or that there was any chance he was staying in Denver past his first seven years). Remember the Denver owner saying "we got killed". One, you didn’t get killed, you are now a better team at least for this year. Two, you had no leverage and everyone in the league except for Dolan knew it. So I think we might have had a clueless GM at the Nuggets (remember he is a young GM as well), but in this case it made Denver ask for more and more under the trade. So it worked in the Nuggest favor. 

Right now the Knicks are a first round exit team with a chance of getting hot and getting to the second round. They were that before the trade as well. I’m okay with this. This is a big improvement and is probably about all we can expect during the Dolan era (which keep in mind is going to be about 30-years long, so get used to this New York). 

I just hope Amare can deal with the fact that he is a better scorer than Anthony and Anthony is taking more shots and getting the lime-light about the Knicks being his team. As long as that relationship doesn’t break down, the Knicks are going to make the playoffs. And that is a big improvement so let’s be happy with that. 

[CardiacKidParticipant]

1. Yes, they gave up a lot if it were me I would have traded Gallinari, Felton and Fields for Carmelo and Billups. Denver got Mozgov and doesnt play him. BUT if they didnt make this trade then Melo would have been traded to New Jersey IMHO

2. Chemistry takes time to build especially when you have 2 guys playing in the New York and wanna be the ones to take the team to the promise land. Carmelo and Amar’e have shown signs that they can play together effectively. Early on in the year LeBron and Wade look stagnant especially in the half court becuase they didnt have the ball in their hands. Not to mention LeBron and Wade cant shoot while Carmelo and Amar’e can. Its all a process of learning the offense, figuring out whats spots in D’Antoni’s offense are you most effective.

3. Dolan did force the trade but remember if the Knicks still had the team from before they would still be a 6-7-8 seed. This team is built for the next 5 years, look at how long Boston has been on top of the East and they got together at the end of their primes. Chicago is so strong right now and Miami is only gonna get better. Dwight Howard is going West IMO so New York will be a top 3 team once they add Chris Paul and solid role players

4. Now if they do add CP3 to STAT and Melo then the coach they NEED to get is Jerry Sloan. Paul and STAT can be the new Stockton and Malone, Carmelo can give Sloan the 1 thing he never had in Utah, a wing who can create his own shot at the end of the game or shot clock. If they wanna be contenders though they need to add Paul this off season and not wait til the trade deadline.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I think they are a long way from being a championship contender.  They have been even worse defensively since the trade, and Melo and Amare have the same basic sweet spots.  I have a hard time picturing them getting enough assets around Melo and Amare to become a championship contender.  I think the expectations of some fans and the national media was ridiculous.  It was predictable that the Knicks wouldn’t be a winning team immediately after the trade.  They have a line-up less suited to an up tempo game.  Of course, the Knicks didn’t look like contenders before the trade, so the trade may have helped them, although if I were the Knicks, I would have waited to make a play for a player like Chris Paul, and not given up much of the team’s core for Melo and Chauncey.  It may hurt them that they can’t easily get role players through the draft and may become overly reliant on veteran free agents.

[NYK2010Participant]

This guy Hotsnot is lost.

4 years from now I bet this trade goes down as one of the worst in league history?  This wasn’t like the Eddy Curry trade, they didn’t give up tons of cap room like other trades either.. 

Here’s what happens now. First round exit this season. Resign Billups to a more affordable contract and use the remaining cap space to get some size/fill out the roster. First round exit again next season. Paul isn’t coming in 2012. First round exit in 2013. This is what 3 years of dumping contracts is going to get the Knicks. A 3 year plan that couldn’t afford any dramatic setbacks and which was thrown out the window by an impatient Owner and his BFF. Good luck building your championship team with no trade assets, little cap space, barely any future picks and relying on MELO to be your 1A option on offense and a whiney little B$tch on defense. Melo just doesn’t play well with others. This is your New reality Knicks fans. Thanks Mr. Dolan!

Really 1st round exits in 3 more years really, you know all that based on 16 games and 6 w/out Billups.  They gave up a lot no disputing that and obviously have a weak bench too.   Is the East really that great no esp. with only 2 dominant teams in Chicago, Boston and Boston being an old team with this maybe just 2 years left being elite.  Orlando has no cap room and neither does Atlanta or Miami.

Knicks actually do have cap room this offseason and the next.  The 16th or 17th pick in the draft yeah they’ve lost their own 1st in 2012 and 2014.  I wouldn’t go run on the Nes bandwagon becauase they won 5 in a row they are back to losingl.  Deron will probably go somewhere else when he can unless he wants the money.

The Heat played about 70 together and have 2 of the top players in the game.  Yet they are horrible against top teams with what 4 wins total, and can’t finish games.

[oddnigggaParticipant]

I really miss Gallo and Wil. Over the past few years I’ve seen these guys grow. Danilo got booed when he was drafted and he turned out to be essential to the team. And Chandler was drafted late and grew into an excellent role player. They were the only bright spots last year and now they’re doing well in Denver. I wish them nothing but the best.

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