[slash787Participant]

I will start by saying Penny Hardaway never won an MVP but he was All NBA first team two times and a 4 time All Star Games as well as being one of the most popular players during his run before injuries derailed his career. It is sad to see the Derrick Rose is headed toward this path. He has had great success and has all the talent in the world but much like Penny Hardaway injuries are in the process of derailing a promising career. 

Maybe Rose can turn his career around like Grant Hill did towards the end but at this point Rose is one injury away (not counting the last two) from becoming an even sadder story. I hope he can come back and stay healthy but at this point he is going to go down as this generations Penny Hardaway. 

 

 

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I was hoping to see the Pacers and Bulls meet in the playoffs too.  That would have been a series for the ages.

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

I was hoping to see the Pacers and Bulls meet in the playoffs too.  That would have been a series for the ages.

[IknoBall12Participant]

 I was just thinking the same thing about Drose being compared to penny. It’s def a sad story. It makes u wonder what labels people will give him now and will he ever regain MVP form

[IknoBall12Participant]

 I was just thinking the same thing about Drose being compared to penny. It’s def a sad story. It makes u wonder what labels people will give him now and will he ever regain MVP form

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I think the chances that Derrick Rose goes down the path of Penny Hardaway are very slim for  a few reasons. 

For one, modern medicine has improved. During Hardaway’s time, there were no MRIs to make a diagnosis. That’s a huge deal. Now doctors can use a MRI to see what’s going on inside of the knee and have a better idea of what to do, which leads to just a cleaner, less invasive and efficient surgery. There is just so much available now days that wasn’t available to Hardway. 

For two, patience. Hardaway’s first major injury was a significant meniscus tear in his left knee and he returned too soon. He ended up doing more damage to his knee and missed the remainder of the season. Rose on the other hand has shown major patience to let his body heal, which he has received significant criticism for. IF anybody compares to Hardaway in this situation, it’s Brandon Roy. 

For three, the nature of their injuries are different. After doing enough damage to his articular cartilage, Hardaway ended up needing microfracture surgery twice and several cleanups. I think he ended up with six overall (two on his left and four on his right). We all know how devastating microfracture is and back then the surgery wasn’t as perfected as it is now (another benefit of modern medicine improving). IF a player compares to Hardaway in this situation, it’s Amare Stoudemire. D. Rose on the other hand has had an ACL tear (and small medial meniscus tear that was repaired) in his left knee and a medial meniscus tear (also repaired) in his right knee. The left knee isn’t a problem and he returned more athletic than he was before. I don’t think the right knee will be a problem either. The fact that he had his meniscus repaired instead of cut out both times are great for him. I don’t think Rose will lose any of his athleticism or quickness (look at Russell Westbrook). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Junior Greek BallerParticipant]

Here comes Dr. Indiana with yet another "expert diagnosis". Wait, you forgot to name drop Eric Gordon since you are suppose to be such good friends with him.

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 How much do you hate life?

[King CaluchaParticipant]

He’s back!!!!

(Terror music, please)

 

[King CaluchaParticipant]

He’s back!!!!

(Terror music, please)

 

[GrandmamaParticipant]

 How much do you hate life?

[Junior Greek BallerParticipant]

Here comes Dr. Indiana with yet another "expert diagnosis". Wait, you forgot to name drop Eric Gordon since you are suppose to be such good friends with him.

[LipstickParticipant]

MRIs are that knew? That’s amazing athletes in the 90s didn’t have access to that. I miss that decade but damn. 

[LipstickParticipant]

MRIs are that knew? That’s amazing athletes in the 90s didn’t have access to that. I miss that decade but damn. 

[MUbballfanParticipant]

Excellent points Indiana.

[MUbballfanParticipant]

Excellent points Indiana.

[slash787Participant]

MRI’s had been around for over 20 years prior to Hardaway being injured. Obvisouly technology is continually improving and Rose is receiving better medical treatment then Hardaway received. With that being said Rose has had a slew of injuries since his MVP (turf toe, torn acl, torn mensicus). He fully recovered from his ACL and a month into the NBA season he tears his meniscus. I am confident he will retun from the injury but based on his injury history he is more likely to have another injury. I hope it doesn’t happen but based on what we have seen it is likely to happen. 

I am not comparing Rose to Hardaway from an injury perspective. I am comparing them from a career perspective. That is a big difference. As you can see from my original post both players had a stretch of dominance and injuries derailed their career. You can throw Brandon Roy in that conversation as well. His injuries were not the same as Rose and Hardaway but injuries negatively affected his career where he had a nice run of All Star appearences and success. 

I hope I am wrong but at this point Rose is going down the same path as Hardaway as a great talent that has had a lot of success who’s career has been effected by injuries. Rose’s game relies on his elite athleticism. Having surgies on both knees is going to take some of that athleticism away. It’s common sense. You can’t miss two full seasons from two seperate knee surguries and say well this guy isn’t going to lose a shred of athleticsm. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/health/17first.html?_r=0

 

 

[slash787Participant]

MRI’s had been around for over 20 years prior to Hardaway being injured. Obvisouly technology is continually improving and Rose is receiving better medical treatment then Hardaway received. With that being said Rose has had a slew of injuries since his MVP (turf toe, torn acl, torn mensicus). He fully recovered from his ACL and a month into the NBA season he tears his meniscus. I am confident he will retun from the injury but based on his injury history he is more likely to have another injury. I hope it doesn’t happen but based on what we have seen it is likely to happen. 

I am not comparing Rose to Hardaway from an injury perspective. I am comparing them from a career perspective. That is a big difference. As you can see from my original post both players had a stretch of dominance and injuries derailed their career. You can throw Brandon Roy in that conversation as well. His injuries were not the same as Rose and Hardaway but injuries negatively affected his career where he had a nice run of All Star appearences and success. 

I hope I am wrong but at this point Rose is going down the same path as Hardaway as a great talent that has had a lot of success who’s career has been effected by injuries. Rose’s game relies on his elite athleticism. Having surgies on both knees is going to take some of that athleticism away. It’s common sense. You can’t miss two full seasons from two seperate knee surguries and say well this guy isn’t going to lose a shred of athleticsm. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/health/17first.html?_r=0

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

You can’t say that Derrick Rose is going down the same career path as Anfernee Hardaway without looking at their injuries. You absolutely have to look at their injuries before making a claim like that at this point. 

There’s a reason Hardaway’s career went down the drain. He had degenerative knees. There’s no getting better, only worse. There’s no optimism, only pessimism. Due to several meniscus tears, in which his meniscus was cut out, he was bone on bone. When you’re bone on bone, you put holes/lesions in your articular cartilage and need microfacture. Hardaway had microfracture twice. He was one of the first athletes to undergo it when the procedure wasn’t that advanced nor was how to rehab from it. He ended up returning in like six months after the first time he had that procedure. Now days athletes are out a year or more after that procedure. Hardaway returned too early from several of his injuries. 

Rose does NOT have degenerative knees. There are no problems with his articular cartilage. You don’t hear or read microfracture being thrown around. Rose tore his ACL and did damage to his medical meniscus in his left knee. The ligament was completely reconstructed and his menisus completely reattached. He made a 100% recovery and looked *more* athletic than before. The medial meniscus tear he just suffered in his right knee was also able to be reattached. There is no reason to think he won’t retain all of or majority of his athleticsm. I won’t downplay a meniscus tear, but it’s nowhere near as serious as an ACL tear. It’s not an athleticism killing injury. It’s more of a "wear and tear quicker" injury that’s hurts you over time. However, them being able to reattach his meniscus prevents that wear and tear. IF this were a situation where both of his meniscus injuries resulted in being cut out and he was returning too soon, *then* I’d agree with the fact he could be heading down the path of Hardaway (and Brandon Roy). 

So based on the facts, there’s nothing that suggests Rose is going to be the next Hardaway. His injuries don’t suggest it. Those are just your opinions and fears about him. However, just because a player suffers two freak injuries doesn’t mean that his fate is to always be injured. Rose projects to come back and have just as great of a chance as any other player to have a healthy career. 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

You can’t say that Derrick Rose is going down the same career path as Anfernee Hardaway without looking at their injuries. You absolutely have to look at their injuries before making a claim like that at this point. 

There’s a reason Hardaway’s career went down the drain. He had degenerative knees. There’s no getting better, only worse. There’s no optimism, only pessimism. Due to several meniscus tears, in which his meniscus was cut out, he was bone on bone. When you’re bone on bone, you put holes/lesions in your articular cartilage and need microfacture. Hardaway had microfracture twice. He was one of the first athletes to undergo it when the procedure wasn’t that advanced nor was how to rehab from it. He ended up returning in like six months after the first time he had that procedure. Now days athletes are out a year or more after that procedure. Hardaway returned too early from several of his injuries. 

Rose does NOT have degenerative knees. There are no problems with his articular cartilage. You don’t hear or read microfracture being thrown around. Rose tore his ACL and did damage to his medical meniscus in his left knee. The ligament was completely reconstructed and his menisus completely reattached. He made a 100% recovery and looked *more* athletic than before. The medial meniscus tear he just suffered in his right knee was also able to be reattached. There is no reason to think he won’t retain all of or majority of his athleticsm. I won’t downplay a meniscus tear, but it’s nowhere near as serious as an ACL tear. It’s not an athleticism killing injury. It’s more of a "wear and tear quicker" injury that’s hurts you over time. However, them being able to reattach his meniscus prevents that wear and tear. IF this were a situation where both of his meniscus injuries resulted in being cut out and he was returning too soon, *then* I’d agree with the fact he could be heading down the path of Hardaway (and Brandon Roy). 

So based on the facts, there’s nothing that suggests Rose is going to be the next Hardaway. His injuries don’t suggest it. Those are just your opinions and fears about him. However, just because a player suffers two freak injuries doesn’t mean that his fate is to always be injured. Rose projects to come back and have just as great of a chance as any other player to have a healthy career. 

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I think the chances that Derrick Rose goes down the path of Penny Hardaway are very slim for  a few reasons. 

For one, modern medicine has improved. During Hardaway’s time, there were no MRIs to make a diagnosis. That’s a huge deal. Now doctors can use a MRI to see what’s going on inside of the knee and have a better idea of what to do, which leads to just a cleaner, less invasive and efficient surgery. There is just so much available now days that wasn’t available to Hardway. 

For two, patience. Hardaway’s first major injury was a significant meniscus tear in his left knee and he returned too soon. He ended up doing more damage to his knee and missed the remainder of the season. Rose on the other hand has shown major patience to let his body heal, which he has received significant criticism for. IF anybody compares to Hardaway in this situation, it’s Brandon Roy. 

For three, the nature of their injuries are different. After doing enough damage to his articular cartilage, Hardaway ended up needing microfracture surgery twice and several cleanups. I think he ended up with six overall (two on his left and four on his right). We all know how devastating microfracture is and back then the surgery wasn’t as perfected as it is now (another benefit of modern medicine improving). IF a player compares to Hardaway in this situation, it’s Amare Stoudemire. D. Rose on the other hand has had an ACL tear (and small medial meniscus tear that was repaired) in his left knee and a medial meniscus tear (also repaired) in his right knee. The left knee isn’t a problem and he returned more athletic than he was before. I don’t think the right knee will be a problem either. The fact that he had his meniscus repaired instead of cut out both times are great for him. I don’t think Rose will lose any of his athleticism or quickness (look at Russell Westbrook). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobbybParticipant]

I think Rose is much different from Grant Hill. Rose relies on explosion. Grant Hill is just an all around good basketball player. Much more versatile.

[bobbybParticipant]

I think Rose is much different from Grant Hill. Rose relies on explosion. Grant Hill is just an all around good basketball player. Much more versatile.

[NYK2010Participant]

 DRose at his peak was an MVP and lost in the Conf. Finals in 5 games to the Heat.

Miami was just starting their run and didn’t start click on all cylinders till the following year.

The Bulls haven’t changed the lineup in 2 years basically outside of SG.

Boozer, Noah, Deng still there granted they are pretty special rebounding and playing defense they were never winning a title with that offense.

I wouldn’t expect Rose to get 100% back from this 2nd knee injury for a while.

Mostly because his game involves so much agility and drives to the rim.

If he works on his game and becomes for a jump shooter and passer that would be different.

He’s young maybe he can return to his play a couple of years ago but I wouldn’t count on it.

[NYK2010Participant]

 DRose at his peak was an MVP and lost in the Conf. Finals in 5 games to the Heat.

Miami was just starting their run and didn’t start click on all cylinders till the following year.

The Bulls haven’t changed the lineup in 2 years basically outside of SG.

Boozer, Noah, Deng still there granted they are pretty special rebounding and playing defense they were never winning a title with that offense.

I wouldn’t expect Rose to get 100% back from this 2nd knee injury for a while.

Mostly because his game involves so much agility and drives to the rim.

If he works on his game and becomes for a jump shooter and passer that would be different.

He’s young maybe he can return to his play a couple of years ago but I wouldn’t count on it.

[NYK2010Participant]

 DRose at his peak was an MVP and lost in the Conf. Finals in 5 games to the Heat.

Miami was just starting their run and didn’t start click on all cylinders till the following year.

The Bulls haven’t changed the lineup in 2 years basically outside of SG.

Boozer, Noah, Deng still there granted they are pretty special rebounding and playing defense they were never winning a title with that offense.

I wouldn’t expect Rose to get 100% back from this 2nd knee injury for a while.

Mostly because his game involves so much agility and drives to the rim.

If he works on his game and becomes for a jump shooter and passer that would be different.

He’s young maybe he can return to his play a couple of years ago but I wouldn’t count on it.

[NYK2010Participant]

 DRose at his peak was an MVP and lost in the Conf. Finals in 5 games to the Heat.

Miami was just starting their run and didn’t start click on all cylinders till the following year.

The Bulls haven’t changed the lineup in 2 years basically outside of SG.

Boozer, Noah, Deng still there granted they are pretty special rebounding and playing defense they were never winning a title with that offense.

I wouldn’t expect Rose to get 100% back from this 2nd knee injury for a while.

Mostly because his game involves so much agility and drives to the rim.

If he works on his game and becomes for a jump shooter and passer that would be different.

He’s young maybe he can return to his play a couple of years ago but I wouldn’t count on it.

[NYK2010Participant]

Seventy-four knees in 72 patients were evaluated with MRI followed by arthroscopy. Data collected from a period of February 1991 to July 1994 were evaluated by an independent researcher. The patient series represented a random sampling of the population, who would be evaluated clinically for suspected acute or chronic lesions of the meniscus and/or ACL. There were 40 male and 32 female patients involved in the study, and the average age was 34.7 years (standard deviation = 11.2 years), with a range of 13 to 65 years. The series included 41 right knees and 33 left knees.

They definitely had MRIs back then for knees, Penny wasn’t drafted till what 93 and didn’t get hurt till the late 90s.

 

 

 

 

 

[NYK2010Participant]

Seventy-four knees in 72 patients were evaluated with MRI followed by arthroscopy. Data collected from a period of February 1991 to July 1994 were evaluated by an independent researcher. The patient series represented a random sampling of the population, who would be evaluated clinically for suspected acute or chronic lesions of the meniscus and/or ACL. There were 40 male and 32 female patients involved in the study, and the average age was 34.7 years (standard deviation = 11.2 years), with a range of 13 to 65 years. The series included 41 right knees and 33 left knees.

They definitely had MRIs back then for knees, Penny wasn’t drafted till what 93 and didn’t get hurt till the late 90s.

 

 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

MRIs were around at the time, but they were still being pefected. It wasn’t used much to make an actual diagnosis. Just like anything else, the use of MRIs have been perfected. Here’s a quote by Dr. James Andrews on Hardaway’s situation and the use of an MRI:

 

 "It was very difficult to explain what was wrong with Penny Hardaway. He was a great guy, a competitive guy, but he had an articular cartilage injury, an injury to the smooth lining of the joint that allows the gliding of the joint. Back then we didn’t really have MRIs to make the diagnosis. Today? Now you would see that on an MRI. It’s still a nemesis and the hardest thing in treatment because the body doesn’t have a way to regenerate it. Mother Nature can’t just fix that. That’s the next step, the biologics, where we determine how to jump-start the healing process and let the body, not the procedure, do the work."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9506985/dr-james-andrews-breaks-how-historic-sports-careers-saved

^^^ This is a good article that’s not just about Penny Hardaway, but about other athletes who struggled with injuries as well. 

 

 

 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

MRIs were around at the time, but they were still being pefected. It wasn’t used much to make an actual diagnosis. Just like anything else, the use of MRIs have been perfected. Here’s a quote by Dr. James Andrews on Hardaway’s situation and the use of an MRI:

 

 "It was very difficult to explain what was wrong with Penny Hardaway. He was a great guy, a competitive guy, but he had an articular cartilage injury, an injury to the smooth lining of the joint that allows the gliding of the joint. Back then we didn’t really have MRIs to make the diagnosis. Today? Now you would see that on an MRI. It’s still a nemesis and the hardest thing in treatment because the body doesn’t have a way to regenerate it. Mother Nature can’t just fix that. That’s the next step, the biologics, where we determine how to jump-start the healing process and let the body, not the procedure, do the work."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9506985/dr-james-andrews-breaks-how-historic-sports-careers-saved

^^^ This is a good article that’s not just about Penny Hardaway, but about other athletes who struggled with injuries as well. 

 

 

 

[RickSlickCHIParticipant]

 Im very sad about losing DRose another year, but I hope this really give the Bulls front Office a wake up call, in really preparing for his return by evaluating the team. DRose is a fearless player and he will do whatever to win. As you even heard him say If he has to run over his mom on the court he will. I have respect for his competitive spirit, but I really this is a great time to rebuild, and bringing in some help for DRose, so where he being presurred to start off so fast to make a point on the court, coming off a knee injury is nothing to play with especially when you transtioning back into the game. 

I really hope next year the Bulls add some help especially at PG for DRose, I really thought Nate Robinson would of been a good option for the Bulls to lay alot of pressure off of DRose in the beginning stages of his return, now the Bulls have no idenity at that position. We all hope Teague will come around, but due to Thibs coaching style, by playing him limited mins, it has been a problem. I hopefully this can be a developmental season for Teague, I mean look at what he did in Summer League . 

But overall I hope the Bulls make moves to build around Rose to the point he feels very relaxed when coming back.

 

 

[RickSlickCHIParticipant]

 Im very sad about losing DRose another year, but I hope this really give the Bulls front Office a wake up call, in really preparing for his return by evaluating the team. DRose is a fearless player and he will do whatever to win. As you even heard him say If he has to run over his mom on the court he will. I have respect for his competitive spirit, but I really this is a great time to rebuild, and bringing in some help for DRose, so where he being presurred to start off so fast to make a point on the court, coming off a knee injury is nothing to play with especially when you transtioning back into the game. 

I really hope next year the Bulls add some help especially at PG for DRose, I really thought Nate Robinson would of been a good option for the Bulls to lay alot of pressure off of DRose in the beginning stages of his return, now the Bulls have no idenity at that position. We all hope Teague will come around, but due to Thibs coaching style, by playing him limited mins, it has been a problem. I hopefully this can be a developmental season for Teague, I mean look at what he did in Summer League . 

But overall I hope the Bulls make moves to build around Rose to the point he feels very relaxed when coming back.

 

 

[blood]

 but im 100 % believer that he can still  play,its not as bad as ACL injury,and I think D-Rose is to good of a player and that he can average 20  even without elite athleticism.Really sad.

[blood]

 but im 100 % believer that he can still  play,its not as bad as ACL injury,and I think D-Rose is to good of a player and that he can average 20  even without elite athleticism.Really sad.

[Author]

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