[whateverParticipant]

So lately ive heard over and over the importance of being a clutch player to play the best when ur team needs u, to get that buzzer beater, to get that extra opportunity for your team, the big block etc. Ive also read a lot of comments arguing a big reason why DRose deserves the MVP is because of his clutch play. SO I decided to take a closer look at the clutch stats found in the website http://www.82games.com. and i decided to check for the player efficiency as defined in nba.com website and take a deeper look beyond points scored and check who really elevates his game when it matters the most. I checked the stats for 4 elite players, 2 who are widely considered clutch players kobe and rose and 2 that are not exactly considered clutch James and Howard and this were the results.

Kobe had a very high efficiency of 37.2 but was Rose was even higher 38.9. But here comes the most interesting part Howards efficiency was an incredible 41.4 only bested by Lebrons 42.4. So if you look deeper than just points and consider rebounds blocks assits FG percentages there is more statiscal evidence that support Lebron And Dwight been clutch than there is for Kobe and Rose. Its not an opinion math dont lie u can do the math for urselves.

[butidonthavemoney]

People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

[whateverParticipant]

Just to clarify NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) – ((Field Goals Att. – Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. – Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

[whateverParticipant]

Im not making anything up im just using the same stats many before me used to give the mystical clutch label to some players I dont give a damn for this stats a player should be evaluated for his performance during the 48 minutes.

[llperez]

poll knowledgeable NBA personell, coahces, players, announcers, media, fans etc… if dwight howard is the 2nd most clutch player of those 4. Goes to show that stats dont tell the whole story when evaluating how clutch someone is since being clutch is a very hard thing to nail down.

[whateverParticipant]

Im just saying its easy to say anything without any kind of evidence, opinions are totally subjective making it easier to overhype or underapreciate players.

[llperez]

yeah, but if about 999 of 1000 basketball minds all agree on an opinion, its probably safe to call it a correct opinion.

[kngojcParticipant]

 Why didn’t anyone else give a point to Ron_Swanson?? Haha I mean 60% of the time it should work every time..

 

But besides that, these stats are definitely skewed just a bit. Yeah I’m a definite supporter of Rose, I’ll admit that. But there is no way that Howard does what Rose does in the clutch. I want to see what goes into this mathematical equation for what makes them clutch. Is there a new formula for the "it" factor? I would assume the clutch factor puts rebounding, offensive rebounding, and fg percentage into it which obviously Howard does well at. But the thing that isn’t being said is that Howard doesn’t take that many shots down the stretch. He dominates the glass and doesn’t allow many offensive rebounds. If these numbers don’t lie, who is the most clutch player according to these statistics? The Bulls are 3-0 (I think?) against the Heat this year. Why is that? Rose. He may not score the buckets but he does what it takes to win games. It doesn’t matter if that’s scoring, rebounding, or passing, he wants to win games.

In one of his recent videos: "Derrick Rose My Home Away From Home" at 2:55 into the video, he begins talking about the NBA championship trophies, the six that Jordan won. Look at his face, look at the desire. You don’t see that when LeBron is talking about winning, I didn’t see that passion and fire in his eyes when he made "His Decision." Derrick Rose is humble, he is hungry, and he is deserving, regardless of what these bull s*** stats are saying. He deserves to win not only because of the level he has performed, but because of the intangibles.

[llperez]

another thing to keep in mind with clutch stats is the number of tough contested shots the player takes. Some people will say it doesnt matter how tough a shot is if the players misses he failed period. But sometimes star guys like kobe especially are given the ball with only a few ticks left and its not enough time to work for a good shot and he ends up hurting his clutch stats. Dwight howards not gonna force tough shots, he will just kick it out if he doesnt have it and place the onus on his teammates to create a play while his clutch stats dont take a hit for this.

[whateverParticipant]

So when 999 out of 1000 people told Cristopher Columbus the earth was square that was completely right, talkin is cheap to demonstrate is the tough part

[The Splash DocParticipant]

clutch is when the games on the line whos hand is the ball gonna be in and there’s only 5 guys I can think of

Melo, Kobe, Dirk, Pierce and Ginobili in that order

[llperez]

whatever, are you honestly suggesting dwight is more clutch then kobe and rose? Are you standing by that becasue the stats told you so?

[butidonthavemoney]

cyclo?

Is that you?

[ghrghrParticipant]

The problem is that the player efficiency is a measure of a player’s full statsheet, points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, TOs. While there is no doubt that Kobe is a better scorer in the clutch maybe Lebron and Howard have more rebounds, assists and blocks, which would give them a better efficiency rating.

Also, James and Howard are not that bad in the clutch as people think.

Lebron isn’t as dominant as he could be in the clutch, but he doesn’t disappear from the game, he will still make plays, just not as many people expect.

As for Howard, when Orlando goes to him in the clutch, he rarely takes the shot. he gets doubled and they get an open 3. Only if the other team doesn’t double he will try something. They also don’t go to him all the time because the other team will foul him because of his FT shooting. This doesn’t mean he is not important, as he is the best inside defender in the League.

[whateverParticipant]

Im not hating on any player I respect Kobe, Howard, Lebron and Rose and actually choose those ploayers because i think they are some of the best players in the league, Im actually a basketball fan, Spurs fan by the way, who loves the game but that thinks people should stop labeling a player clutch or not clutch cause it is completely subjective and it even means different things to different people, everywhere from buzzer beaters to the players desire to win, and start apreciating a players real value throughout the whole game.

[apb540Participant]

 I can’t believe people are defending the stats.  Like the intelligent people before me said, not everything can be determined by numbers.  Yea 99% of the people fucked up when giving Columbus advice, but 99% are right when they say Kobe is more clutch than LeBron or Dwight Howard.

[whateverParticipant]

LOL u really are showing all ur superior intelligence through that post. But thats ok Im not going to make fun of ur comment Im going to explain u why stats cant be defended, there is a lot of things u can defend for instance an opinion in the way many did in the posts above, or a position as many do everyday. On the other hand, u cant defend facts (there is no need to) because they are just that, facts, objective things that are demonstrated by specific ways and can be checked by anyone who is interested in doing it. I will give you a fact to make it easier 4 you to understand, the Lakers won last years nba championship, u may not like it, u probably can argue wether they deserve it or not but there is no need for anyone to defend that they are the champions because anyone can easily verify that they are. Only a stupid person will argue that they are not the 2009-2010 nba champions. Stats are facts, i hope u knew that and if u didnt well …, so following the logic exposed before there is no need to defend them because only a stupid person would go against facts. Wait i was trying not to call u stupid, well i guess it was just to hard no to.

[butidonthavemoney]

You haven’t presented any facts. That efficiency formula is nothing but somebody’s opinion of what clutch performance is (stats). "Just to clarify NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) – ((Field Goals Att. – Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. – Free Throws Made) + Turnovers))." According to his opinion (that formula), Dwight Howard is more clutch than Derrick Rose.

We base our opinions off of what we see, and what almost everybody sees is Derrick Rose being a better clutch performer than Dwight Howard.

And stats do lie.

[Leftovers16Participant]

2 seconds left you need a 3 to win and you choose dwight howard or lebron james to take the 3? naw Black Mamba 100% 

[whateverParticipant]

First of all u need to learn how to read the name of the thread is CLUTCH EFFICIENCY which is something different than just clutch, many people consider for example PPG a very important stat without even asking the shooting percentages (shooting efficiency).So the thread purpose was to analize the players efficiency in the clutch time as defined in http://www.82games.com. So and here is lesson for you that probably dont know much about empirical analysis, once u define ur variables u can make calculations on the variable u defined and the data u get are call stats, i know u probably no nothing about numerical methods but thats how it works, glad to help. 

[butidonthavemoney]

"So and here is lesson for you that probably dont know much about empirical analysis, once u define ur variables u can make calculations on the variable u defined and the data u get are call stats, i know u probably no nothing about numerical methods but thats how it works, glad to help."

I know enough about the English language to know that you shouldn’t have faked sick so much in the third grade.

[whateverParticipant]

Im defining clutch to more than just points, there is much more in  basketball than  just points, let me  ask something back to you ur team is defending the last shot of the game who would u want to defend and possibly block the last shot kobe or howard. Again lets say u r on offense now ur team is shooting a free throw and is behind 2 points who would you rather have rebounding that ball howard or kobe.  Kobe is a shooter no doubt that is his strenght and probably everyone would pick to take the last shot but probably everyone would pick howard over kobe to secure the last defensive rebound, open ur minds is not all about scoring

[whateverParticipant]

English is my third Language, I wonder how many languages u master.

[butidonthavemoney]

Twelve.

I’ve mastered twelve languages.

Is one of your three languages "Douche"? You’ve definitely mastered that one. I could have sworn I was talking to a native of Douchevania.

[whateverParticipant]

I might not have a flawless English, but at least I dont have brain damage to consider that by any means funny or offensive or whatever ur intention was with it.

[butidonthavemoney]

Was that last post addressed to me?

[Tongue-Out-Like-23Participant]

These stats are so stupid.  All I know is Kobe and Carmelo are going to take the shot if my life was on the line.  Not Beasley or Howard or anyone else like that.

[apb540Participant]

"whatever" you really are acting like a douche.  Stop trying to be such a badass.

[butidonthavemoney]

It’s interesting, but it’s just another opinion. That’s it. This clutch formula certainly doesn’t change my personal opinion about who in the NBA is more important to his team down the stretch of big games.

But this whatever kid…

"LOL u really are showing all ur superior intelligence through that post."

"Wait i was trying not to call u stupid, well i guess it was just to hard no to."

"i know u probably no nothing about numerical methods but thats how it works, glad to help."

…is a douche.

[whateverParticipant]

Im not trying to be a douche at all sorry that was uncall for, Im just frustrated trying to explain what i was trying to acomplish with this, maybe it got lost in tranlation or something, but i never said kobe was a worst closer than any of the other just that the clutch label is so subjective that is a worthless measure.

[Author]

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