[valentine]

I don’t dislike the Clippers, but am I the only one that thinks they’re consistently over-rated?Not just as a team, but when also looking at individual players.

Is Chris Paul really the best PG of the last 10 years? He has a high basketball IQ and plays efficiently, but why do his teams never thrive? I just don’t think he’s as good as everyone else seems to think.  

Is DeAndre Jordan (Most Overrated) even a good player at all? I think his defensive positioning is terrible and on offense he clogs the paint. After all is said and done, I think he has a harmful effect on the team considering that….

Blake Griffin is a pick & roll beast… but is probably a below average defender.  If your team needed either a bucket or big defensive play….is Griffin really going to give it to you? 

I might be too harsh here, but if I was a team in the west and had to choose a first-round opponent, I’d be jockeying for the Clips.

Someone please tell me why I’m wrong!

 

 

[nick5354Participant]

I really really do not like CP3 always being mentioned as the best PG in the league. I don’t get why he has always ben regarded so highly and what he does that deserves to be the #1 PG. To me Westbrook is easily in front of Paul in terms of best PG in the league but somehow CP3 gets treated like a God and Westbrook always gets bashed

[nick5354Participant]

I really really do not like CP3 always being mentioned as the best PG in the league. I don’t get why he has always ben regarded so highly and what he does that deserves to be the #1 PG. To me Westbrook is easily in front of Paul in terms of best PG in the league but somehow CP3 gets treated like a God and Westbrook always gets bashed

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 But prime CP was even better.  And it is undeniable Chris Paul is much more skilled.  Much more skilled creating space for his mid-range jumper, more skilled finishing, better deep shooter, better passer, better handles.  Westbrook is able to be similarly effective due to raw physical dominance.  Russ in his best games is probably better than CP, but at his worst, he is a lot worse than CP.  Paul doesn’t turn it over nearly as much and seldom has the brickfests Westbrook occasionally has.  

Paul definitely is more fun to watch in my opinion.  Westbrook is more reliant on getting the refs to blow their whistles and, as I mentioned, is not even in the same class as Paul in his diversity of offensive moves.  That doesn’t always matter for effectiveness – Westbrook creates space for his jumper simply by elevating high, while CP has really advanced step-out moves, in-and-out moves and hesitation moves to create space – but it does matter for who is perceived as the better player.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 But prime CP was even better.  And it is undeniable Chris Paul is much more skilled.  Much more skilled creating space for his mid-range jumper, more skilled finishing, better deep shooter, better passer, better handles.  Westbrook is able to be similarly effective due to raw physical dominance.  Russ in his best games is probably better than CP, but at his worst, he is a lot worse than CP.  Paul doesn’t turn it over nearly as much and seldom has the brickfests Westbrook occasionally has.  

Paul definitely is more fun to watch in my opinion.  Westbrook is more reliant on getting the refs to blow their whistles and, as I mentioned, is not even in the same class as Paul in his diversity of offensive moves.  That doesn’t always matter for effectiveness – Westbrook creates space for his jumper simply by elevating high, while CP has really advanced step-out moves, in-and-out moves and hesitation moves to create space – but it does matter for who is perceived as the better player.

[jmarg25Participant]

Wow, I just noticed that Westbrook only plays 31 minutes per game. Per 36 minutes, he average 29 points.

[jmarg25Participant]

Wow, I just noticed that Westbrook only plays 31 minutes per game. Per 36 minutes, he average 29 points.

[jmarg25Participant]

Wow, I just noticed that Westbrook only plays 31 minutes per game. Per 36 minutes, he average 29 points.

[jmarg25Participant]

Wow, I just noticed that Westbrook only plays 31 minutes per game. Per 36 minutes, he average 29 points.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I agree DeAndre Jordan is overrated.  He can dominate at times, but that is dependent on how he is defended and whether or not the opposing center can shoot, as Jordan is a bad perimeter defender.  And Marc Gasol has dominated him in the playoffs when they have met.  Jordan really only has two career playoff series where he played well in five attempts.  He is reliant on lobs, dump-offs and offensive rebounds, so when the pace of the game slows and the opposing defense rotates well, he can be left in the lurch.

I think Chris Paul is the real deal and would be able to lead a championship team if they were a Spurs-esque share-the-ball sort of team.  But it is hard to win a championship relying on elite PnR PGs.  We have seen John Stockton fail to get all the way and Chris Paul as well.  When defenses tighten up, Paul ends up being forced to take a few too many jump shots.  Paul has had some great postseason performances, but his teams are sometimes overreliant on him.

And Griffin seems always to be injured in the postseason or to struggle with physicality.  Z-Bo, Serge Ibaka, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut and most the Spurs bigs have all given him trouble in the postseason.  Perhaps because he is so reliant on physicality.  He doesn’t have a good reach for a PF, so he can’t effortlessly score in the post like Dirk, Duncan or Aldridge.  And, while he is an excellent passer, he can’t pass as effortlessly out of the post area as longer players.  

Blake’s jump shot is going to be really important for his game come playoff time.  The mechanical improvements he made need to start paying dividends.  Blake also could help himself by improving his face-up game.  If he could work more facing up his defender at the elbow, his lack of size would be less of an issue.

And LAC’s wings just aren’t that great.  They are good and I do like what Redick has become, but most true championship teams have elite wings.  Guys like Paul Pierce, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Ginobili/Kawhi.  The Clippers’ overreliane on CP (And the Hornets as well) probably hurts their championship odds.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

 I agree DeAndre Jordan is overrated.  He can dominate at times, but that is dependent on how he is defended and whether or not the opposing center can shoot, as Jordan is a bad perimeter defender.  And Marc Gasol has dominated him in the playoffs when they have met.  Jordan really only has two career playoff series where he played well in five attempts.  He is reliant on lobs, dump-offs and offensive rebounds, so when the pace of the game slows and the opposing defense rotates well, he can be left in the lurch.

I think Chris Paul is the real deal and would be able to lead a championship team if they were a Spurs-esque share-the-ball sort of team.  But it is hard to win a championship relying on elite PnR PGs.  We have seen John Stockton fail to get all the way and Chris Paul as well.  When defenses tighten up, Paul ends up being forced to take a few too many jump shots.  Paul has had some great postseason performances, but his teams are sometimes overreliant on him.

And Griffin seems always to be injured in the postseason or to struggle with physicality.  Z-Bo, Serge Ibaka, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut and most the Spurs bigs have all given him trouble in the postseason.  Perhaps because he is so reliant on physicality.  He doesn’t have a good reach for a PF, so he can’t effortlessly score in the post like Dirk, Duncan or Aldridge.  And, while he is an excellent passer, he can’t pass as effortlessly out of the post area as longer players.  

Blake’s jump shot is going to be really important for his game come playoff time.  The mechanical improvements he made need to start paying dividends.  Blake also could help himself by improving his face-up game.  If he could work more facing up his defender at the elbow, his lack of size would be less of an issue.

And LAC’s wings just aren’t that great.  They are good and I do like what Redick has become, but most true championship teams have elite wings.  Guys like Paul Pierce, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Ginobili/Kawhi.  The Clippers’ overreliane on CP (And the Hornets as well) probably hurts their championship odds.

[Reptilian MonkParticipant]

 They have chemistry issues, whine and complain too much on every call, and are to caught up in flash "lop city" mentality. They need to toughen up and proabably get a better wing player, Matt Barnes is not the answer. They do have potential to be great though.

[Reptilian MonkParticipant]

 They have chemistry issues, whine and complain too much on every call, and are to caught up in flash "lop city" mentality. They need to toughen up and proabably get a better wing player, Matt Barnes is not the answer. They do have potential to be great though.

[AdamJCallejaParticipant]

 I can’t agree more on the whining part. No team in the league complains on every call like the Clips. I swear JJ Reddick takes every call against him personal and can get some dumb techs. Same goes with rest of the starting lineup. They don’t have much depth either. Austin replacing Farmar won’t help much either.

[AdamJCallejaParticipant]

 I can’t agree more on the whining part. No team in the league complains on every call like the Clips. I swear JJ Reddick takes every call against him personal and can get some dumb techs. Same goes with rest of the starting lineup. They don’t have much depth either. Austin replacing Farmar won’t help much either.

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 One thing that the media don’t mention when they talk about the Clippers and how they might win it all is that it seems they have never had a good small forward.  Even now, they don’t have a quality starter for the spot.

Odom was better as a power forward, Maggette was able to get to the foul line, Ron Harper and Danny Manning could play small forward but are not walking through that door.

At least they have tried a bit in drafts.  R Bullock, A Aminu, Al Thornton, Y Karolev, if people want to call them busts they probably can.  

Jordan and Griffin with Hawes and Big Baby. they have enough for the paint.  Crawford and Reddick, shooting guard has enough scoring.  Paul at point guard is enough, but no real backup.  They are overrated unless they can get a better small forward.  Barnes, Turkoglu, Dahntay Jones, not enough.  

It doesn’t look like the Clippers will get homecourt for the first round of the playoffs, so they are underachieving for what many said they would do so they must be overrated at the moment.

Maybe they add players like N Robinson and T Prince, but that isn’t enough.  They have traded away some picks, so they have few trade assets.  They can trade away their 2019 first rounder, not sure what upgrade at small forward that could get them.  

 

 

  

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 One thing that the media don’t mention when they talk about the Clippers and how they might win it all is that it seems they have never had a good small forward.  Even now, they don’t have a quality starter for the spot.

Odom was better as a power forward, Maggette was able to get to the foul line, Ron Harper and Danny Manning could play small forward but are not walking through that door.

At least they have tried a bit in drafts.  R Bullock, A Aminu, Al Thornton, Y Karolev, if people want to call them busts they probably can.  

Jordan and Griffin with Hawes and Big Baby. they have enough for the paint.  Crawford and Reddick, shooting guard has enough scoring.  Paul at point guard is enough, but no real backup.  They are overrated unless they can get a better small forward.  Barnes, Turkoglu, Dahntay Jones, not enough.  

It doesn’t look like the Clippers will get homecourt for the first round of the playoffs, so they are underachieving for what many said they would do so they must be overrated at the moment.

Maybe they add players like N Robinson and T Prince, but that isn’t enough.  They have traded away some picks, so they have few trade assets.  They can trade away their 2019 first rounder, not sure what upgrade at small forward that could get them.  

 

 

  

 

 

[tuck243Participant]

Chris Paul and John Wall are prototypical PG’s in this league.  You can’t deny that one bit.  Best player at the PG position? Russell Westbrook.  Now that you understand the difference we can elaborate on Chris Paul and the Clippers.

D. Jordan: He’s really not an issue to me (I honestly think they should go to him on the low block because during the preseason he looked nice down there)…   But they just utilize him as a screener and hustle guy offensively.  He’s not really a liability until the 4th Quarter, but his area is so big near the basket that you can’t lose him offensively.  Most of the time Blake doesn’t get double teamed from the other post position.  You HAVE to stay near Jordan.

Blake Griffin: He’s probably the main reason the Clippers will not move forward in the playoffs.  He’s not a legit first option yet and struggles when the game is slowed down/tight in the half court.  He has the old "LeBron effect" to me…  Get better at what you were decent at, but don’t add anything to your game…  Meaning his jumper was decent last year, so he got better at it…  His back to the basket game was terrible last year and he needed to add that to his game, instead, it’s the same…  LeBron did the same thing throughout his career until he added a low-post game in Miami.  LeBron opted to add a 3pt shot to his game instead of working on his in between game.  Which got him praise, but also sent him home a lot.  

Enter Blake Griffin here…  What’s crazy is his numbers are good including his percentages.  The issue is when you visually see what he CAN’T do.  He tend to physically overpower players without making any real basketball moves in the low-post.  As described above comments, that does not work against everyone.  Which bring me to my next point about CP3.

 

Truthfully, the only person on the Clippers roster that can get a good shot consistently is CP3.  Maybe Jamaal depending if he’s shooting great or not, but CP3 is the only legit one.  That’s where the problem originates at.   CP3 is so wrapped up in being a PG that he doesn’t understand that he’s actually the best offensive threat on the team.  At times he’s hesitant to shoot instead of just carrying this team like he’s capable of.   Someone said they rely on CP3 too much.  I disagree.   I think they don’t rely on him like they should because it’s this misconception that Blake is this Superstar offensively.  Chris Paul’s usage rating and shot attempts have gone down since the first year of being on the Clippers.  While Blake Griffin’s has gone up since the first year of the Chris on the Clippers.  

I watched Chris Paul dominate the Lakers one year in the playoffs.  Like they really couldn’t stop his pick and roll game.  That was when he was the first option, so off the pick if you didn’t step up he will shoot.  If you did step up, he will dish it.   Now…  His last resort coming off the pick is to shoot and sometimes that’s enough to disrupt his shot because he’s too hesitant.

Honestly, I don’t think this team is overrated.  I believe anyone in the West have a legit shot at winning the WCF, including them.  All the teams seem to do a lot of things well and have holes just like the Clippers.  The West is going to come down to match ups and simply the Clippers might be the odd man out versus some teams.  Do that make them overrated? Nah because I don’t think anyone was expecting them to win anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[tuck243Participant]

Chris Paul and John Wall are prototypical PG’s in this league.  You can’t deny that one bit.  Best player at the PG position? Russell Westbrook.  Now that you understand the difference we can elaborate on Chris Paul and the Clippers.

D. Jordan: He’s really not an issue to me (I honestly think they should go to him on the low block because during the preseason he looked nice down there)…   But they just utilize him as a screener and hustle guy offensively.  He’s not really a liability until the 4th Quarter, but his area is so big near the basket that you can’t lose him offensively.  Most of the time Blake doesn’t get double teamed from the other post position.  You HAVE to stay near Jordan.

Blake Griffin: He’s probably the main reason the Clippers will not move forward in the playoffs.  He’s not a legit first option yet and struggles when the game is slowed down/tight in the half court.  He has the old "LeBron effect" to me…  Get better at what you were decent at, but don’t add anything to your game…  Meaning his jumper was decent last year, so he got better at it…  His back to the basket game was terrible last year and he needed to add that to his game, instead, it’s the same…  LeBron did the same thing throughout his career until he added a low-post game in Miami.  LeBron opted to add a 3pt shot to his game instead of working on his in between game.  Which got him praise, but also sent him home a lot.  

Enter Blake Griffin here…  What’s crazy is his numbers are good including his percentages.  The issue is when you visually see what he CAN’T do.  He tend to physically overpower players without making any real basketball moves in the low-post.  As described above comments, that does not work against everyone.  Which bring me to my next point about CP3.

 

Truthfully, the only person on the Clippers roster that can get a good shot consistently is CP3.  Maybe Jamaal depending if he’s shooting great or not, but CP3 is the only legit one.  That’s where the problem originates at.   CP3 is so wrapped up in being a PG that he doesn’t understand that he’s actually the best offensive threat on the team.  At times he’s hesitant to shoot instead of just carrying this team like he’s capable of.   Someone said they rely on CP3 too much.  I disagree.   I think they don’t rely on him like they should because it’s this misconception that Blake is this Superstar offensively.  Chris Paul’s usage rating and shot attempts have gone down since the first year of being on the Clippers.  While Blake Griffin’s has gone up since the first year of the Chris on the Clippers.  

I watched Chris Paul dominate the Lakers one year in the playoffs.  Like they really couldn’t stop his pick and roll game.  That was when he was the first option, so off the pick if you didn’t step up he will shoot.  If you did step up, he will dish it.   Now…  His last resort coming off the pick is to shoot and sometimes that’s enough to disrupt his shot because he’s too hesitant.

Honestly, I don’t think this team is overrated.  I believe anyone in the West have a legit shot at winning the WCF, including them.  All the teams seem to do a lot of things well and have holes just like the Clippers.  The West is going to come down to match ups and simply the Clippers might be the odd man out versus some teams.  Do that make them overrated? Nah because I don’t think anyone was expecting them to win anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[nateoak10Participant]

 Paul’s issue is that he is far too passive, he could destroy teams on his own if he just tried to shoot the ball more and take over. But that isn’t who he is, he has the legit talent but his style of play and the lack of depth on this team will kill them in the long run. They simply need a real go to scorer on the wings and some actual depth up front. They’re too much flash and not enough substance 

[nateoak10Participant]

 Paul’s issue is that he is far too passive, he could destroy teams on his own if he just tried to shoot the ball more and take over. But that isn’t who he is, he has the legit talent but his style of play and the lack of depth on this team will kill them in the long run. They simply need a real go to scorer on the wings and some actual depth up front. They’re too much flash and not enough substance 

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Chris Paul’s usage rate has only been in the 22-24% range during his time in LA.  Yes, that fails to account for his enormous assist rate, but he does need his teammates to make plays and he does need the team’s offense overall to play well for the team to be a major contender.

[B-ball fanParticipant]

Chris Paul’s usage rate has only been in the 22-24% range during his time in LA.  Yes, that fails to account for his enormous assist rate, but he does need his teammates to make plays and he does need the team’s offense overall to play well for the team to be a major contender.

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