[Celtics3178Participant]

 The fire works finally settled and we got the player we needed. Kyrie gives us something we’ve havent had. He’s a top 12 player in the league and a an amazing offensive talent. Add that to he has something to prove after demanding to leave Lebron. 

That being said losing IT hurts. He was a Solider for us and he will forever get standing O’s every time he comes in the building. Crowder is a solid 3 D guy on a great contract but we just didn’t have minutes for him. Zizic doesn’t hurt cuz we never had him. Losing the Brooklyn pick is tough but well worth it. 

Now for the new looked celtics. The offense is going to be insane Kyrie Gordon provide an offensive punch Stevens has never had. Horford is a solid big man. Getting Kyrie is the cake but the icing is the young guys.

This opens up minutes for brown and Tatum. Stevens recently said how he’s amazed about tatums D. If brown or Tatum have brake out years it could be the real X factor. the celtics will likely start Kyrie Smart Gordon Morris and Al. Letting Rozier Brown and Tatum to grow togeather. Rozier hass shown he’s explosive athletic and hard working he’s AB 2.0

[OhCanada-Participant]

 You could go blue in the face arguing with me verbally or have your fingers grinded to the bone typing before you could finally explain to me how Irving is worth IT, Crowder, Zizic and the Nets pick. 

I try to look at it from the Celtics standpoint. Zizic is one of many stashed assets they cant find time for so hes kind of an invaluable asset. Crowder is unhappy the team continues to draft and signs players that play his position and was not happy with his position within the organization. They also obviously dont believe in Thomas which seems to be the story of his life.

The Nets improved this year and may not hand out a top 3 pick but this years 5- 7 players deep with big time talent and I would much rather have Thomas and Ayton/Bamba/Bagley then Irving. IT is also only 1 year older than Hayward and 3 years older than Irving.

Well Ive never liked the Celtics and this gives me more reason not to like them. If Hinkie made his athletes feel like disposable assets I wonder what this move does for Danny Ainges lockeroom.

 

 

[Anton123Participant]

It’s not that hard to explain. The Celtics don’t need Crowder because they’ve got a plethora of SF with more potential, Thomas has an expiring contract, so he doesn’t have nearly as much value as Kyrie who still has two years left on one of the best contracts in the league, Thomas also makes Kyrie look like a good defensive player. Add a great pick to those to guys and you can get yourself a star, is that unfair? A year from now Thomas will probably leave the Cavs and the Celtics will be the undisputed favorites to win the East. I don’t think they’ll regret the decision. 

Stars seem to be getting treated like crap nowadays, people arguing that the Kings won the Cousins trade, saying the Cavs robbed the Celtics. 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

 After this deal I woudn’t worry about what they gave up and just look at their current roster.

Kyrie Rozier Smart as your guards

Heyward Tatum and Brown as your swings

Horford and Morris and Baynes as your bigs

By giving up the Brooklyn pick and Zizic (who actually looked pretty good in summer league), Boston lost the opportunity to add true big in Bamba or Ayton or even replace Horford in the future with Bagley or Porter.  They are very thin at the 5 position. 

The loss of Crowder isn’t major since you have better two way players that can jump in his spot.

I.T. and Kyrie are a wash.  If anything Kyrie is slightly a better scorer, neither guy is a great assist man, but I think I.T.’s IQ is slightly higher, he carried Boston, was just a liability on Defense.

The only thing of significance Boston gave up was that #1 pick which is a possible big man of the future.  I think they should’ve stockpiled for Anthony Davis but the price was probably much higher than what they gave for disgruntled Kyrie.  

 

That Brooklyn pick will be key in determining who wins this trade.  I.T. is a hell of a competitor, I don’t think Kyrie is worth what they gave up, Kyrie has more of the IT factor, meaning, teams will go into a game lack of sleep knowing what they have to face.  

I don’t think Boston got significantly better and over the long haul if that pick pans out, I think Cleveland definitely won. 

I could see Boston’s starting 5 by the end of the season be:

Kyrie Heyward Tatum Brown Horford

with Marcus Morris Baynes and Rozier off the bench.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cohenbc1Participant]

The Celtics now have a Marcus Morris/Aron Baynes/Gershon Yabusele platoon at PF. That’s effin’ terrible.

 

[mgreener_34Participant]

 I love reading Celtics threads, because it reminds me how little people truly follow this team. 

I’ll agree that DA traded more than he had to, but I guess this all comes down to how much you value to BRK pick, and how good you think Kyrie is. 

Personally, and you can check prior posts, I think Kyrie is a top 10 player in the league, and only a step behind Steph Curry. So obviously I think this was a great trade. If you think differently, then obviously this trade makes no sense to you. 

Firstly, it’s important to understand Ainge, and his team building strategy. Tonight on the radio he mentioned how Kyrie fit his timeline better than Thomas and Crowder. Likewise he has that extra year of control which is huge for Ainge and the Celtics. 

We were never going to sign IT to a max. He was just a salary filler for this trade. I know that’s hard for most people to conceptualize, but thats the truth of it. He’s a 5’7 pg in a game, that unlike any other in the world, is dependant on size. He’s also injured and won’t be ready to start the season. Love ya IT, but I get why you have to leave. 

Crowder was just to match salaries obviously, and is addition by subtraction. If you’re one of the few people in the world who think IT/AB/Horford/Crowder was going to lead you to a title than this next reasoning is going to make your head explode. We traded Crowder because he became expendable when we signed a better player than him in FA, and drafted a better player than him in FA. I like his contract, but his production was easily replacable, and him gone means we can throw more minutes to develope the young guys. 

Zizec- Who really cares that he was a part of this trade? 

This trade to me was pretty much Zizec and the BRK pick for Kyrie, which is fair value. That pick is going to be good obviously, and the player drafted is probably going to be great. But ainge still has the LA/Sac pick, as well as other assets. He just trimmed most of the fat from his roster, and guess what guys? THE CELTICS ARE ONE OF THE YOUNGEST TEAMS IN THE NBA! I don’t have time to look it all up, but if you took the average age of their team this year, they would have been the 3rd youngest team in the NBA behind LA and PHX. They could be the youngest team in the NBA for all I know now…

Also the Celtics went from the shortest team in the league (CLE was ironically #2. I see you Kay Felder…), to middle of the pack. People talk about how much we are going to take a step back defensively, how we still can’t rebound, ect ect. We just replaced a 5’7 pg with one thats 6’3. a 6′ SG with one thats 6’7. Our 6’6 SF with one thats 6’8 ect ect. Our team added tons of size this year, and we are clearly going to be a better rebounding team than last year. 

Horford- Baynes

Morris- Yabu

Hayward- Tatum- Semi

Brown- Smart

Kyrie- Rozier

That is a nicely balanced roster that can compete now, and in the future. I still think we’re one piece away from being clearly better than the Cavs. If we could somehow turn that LA/SAC pick into a solid starting calibur 4/5 that can space the floor or block shots, than this team can compete with anyone. Sounds weird to say, but man I wish Kelly Olynyk was still on this team, he would honestly be the perfect starter for us. 

Ainge alluded to one more move being made before the season starts. Could just be smoke and mirrors, but if anything else does go down, id be shocked if it wasn’t for a big man that can space it or block shots. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The GoatParticipant]

 I feel for IT taking less money expecting a deal to be honoured later. That’s business, it sucks. He will be great for Cleveland. 

Big haul for the Cavs but Kyrie is worth it. He’s only 25. The only thing is that it’s a lot of pieces if he gets hurt. They are super thin up front too. I think Yabusele will be a player but with Smart and Rozier still on board I’d be trying to trade one of them with that Lakers pick for a good 4/5. If Horford goes down they are in trouble. 

Crowder and Zizic will contribute right away. IT still may go as a FA eventually, but they have the Nets’ pick too. This helps in case LeBron goes. 

Kyrie – Brown – Hayward – Morris – Horford

Rozier – Smart – Tatum – Yabusele – Baynes

 

Thomas  -Smith – James – Love – Thompson

Crowder – Zizic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[XYRYXParticipant]

 I have to say I’m actually stunned what Ainge gave away here. Honestly Kyrie and IT are pretty much comparable offensively at this point and both are terrible on defense. I understand that if there is the opportunity to grab a star player in Kyrie u should go for it but after all this moves by the celtics I don’t really think the celtics are a better team overall. They gave away all their size and best defenders in Bradley and Crowder and while they might or should be better offensively who the hell rebounds and defends the boards in Boston now. To say that Brown and Tatum will play a lot of stretch 4 does only make sense because who besides Morris and Horford can play the 4 and 5 now? 

I know I know positionless basketball but someone has to protect the rim and rebound and Hayward and Kyrie are norwegers the wingdefenders Bradley and Crowder are. I think Crowder and his contract alone makes the Cavs win this trade cause I think he is a tremendous player on both ends and there are only a handful of players in today’s NBA. I actually don’t think the Brooklyn pick will be top 5 with the Hawks, Bulls and Magic around at least not before the lottery, but to get this pick for the Cavs is still huge. 

The Celtics really really need size on their roster now or they won’t do anything next season. 

 

[Anton123Participant]

 I completely agree with you about the Celtics needing size, but I don’t see how losing Thomas, Bradely and Crowder hurts their rebounding and rim protection, is Zizic better than Baynes right now? I don’t think so. Kyrie is certainly an upgrade over Thomas defensively, Bradley’s minutes will be taken up by Marcus Smart, so their perimeter D should be okay. 

Still, they do need more size, maybe they’ll find a way to sign one of the remaining free agent bigs (Len, Plumlee, Noel, Splitter).

 

[thetrademachineryParticipant]

how does this sound:

favors for morris and yabusele and pick.

[cohenbc1Participant]

 Like the kind of desperation move the Celtics need to make when they realize their second-best big man is Aron Baynes.

[MachettiParticipant]

I think the Celtics actually did a great job in this trade. They didn’t have to give up Brown or Tatum. I think people think that it’s a for gone conclusion that the Nets pick will be number 1. I believe in a watered down East they probably will become more competitive than the baby Lakers, which Boston has their 1st round pick. I believe that pick will be higher than the Nets pick. I liked the D’Angelo Russell trade, the Allen Crabbe signing and Jeremy Lin is also a nice veteran piece currently on their roster. The Lakers in return got a player who’s playing style is 15 years to late. As much as I respect Isaiah Thomas he isn’t a legitimate player to build a franchise around who’s older and already has uncertainty, health wise with his recent injury. I do however feel this is a good trade at this time. The Cav’s didn’t fall off to much short term and they got a guy who can defend Kevin Durant Jae Crowder so Lebron doesn’t have to waste to much energy on defense. He was gassed in the finals. Lastly it seems to me Danny doesn’t like drafting number 1 if there isn’t a consensus player at that pick example Anthony Davis or KAT. This draft is going to be 1-5 pretty even. Ainge knows in a draft where it’s whoever can go number 1 he likes to sit at the 2, 3 or 4 slot position. Lastly I think the Celtics have a nice mix of established stars and young budding stars they don’t need anymore developmental picks. They didn’t want to be like philly and wait 5 years to have all there young guys come together.

[Andrew1984Participant]

I know I’m among the minority, but as a lifelong Cavs fan, I’m nowhere near as satisfied with this deal as most Clevelanders are. Here’s why:

Isaiah Thomas had one good year. People forget that he wasn’t even a starter in ’15-’16. Skill wise, as a shooter, passer, and dribbler, he’s not even in Kyrie’s world. He has just taken advantage of freshly legalized traveling in the NBA. I have nowhere near the confidence in IT that I have in Kyrie on catching a kick-out from LeBron and hitting a big clutch trey ball, or even pulling one off the dribble. Plus, Thomas is 29, has a hip problem, and will want to get paid next year. I know Kyrie’s defense was suspect, but Thomas’s is even worse, because he’s five inches shorter.

Jae Crowder is ok, but he’s just a guy. There’s nothing special about him. And where do you play him with LeBron and Love? Does this mean Thompson gets benched and LeBron and Love are pushed to the four and five?

I wanted two young backcourt rising stars who can contribute now, but be centerpieces if and when LeBron leaves or declines. But Thomas is 29 and Crowder is 27.

I’m also not as optimistic about the Brooklyn pick as everyone else. They are not incentivized to tank! They know they won’t be making this draft pick; they are going to try to win! D’Angelo Russell, DeMarre Carroll, and Allen Crabbe are now there, and Jeremy Lin is healthy. Those are veteran guys that know how to play. That team is absolutely capable of finishing 8th or 9th in the East, which makes the pick 14-16 range. If anyone thinks this pick is going to land Cleveland Michael Porter Jr., they’re crazy. He will probably go to Chicago, who quietly has an absolutely putrid roster once Wade gets bought out and LaVine is brought back slowly.

I would rather have a disgruntled Kyrie than what the Cavs got, however, that’s a different argument. But if you are going to trade him, sending him to perhaps your closest competition in the East is risky, and has the potential to blow up in your face.

[Andrew1984Participant]

 Cavs also have gaping hole at the two. JR Smith and Kyle Korver are declining and Imam Shumpert is clearly not up to any challenges. Maybe they can play Derrick Rose at the two and get some scoring from him, but he can’t space the floor. Maybe they can manage to land D. Wade, but they’d be getting even older.

[Author]

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