[Arc12345Participant]

Well…I’m ready for all of those fellow Hawks fans and people who applauded the draft night trade to apologize.

I was very adamant that the trade was a mistake after Luka was a BLESSING to fall to us at 3. But of course, the Hawks decide to get in their own way and trade away an already incredible value pick in Luka trying to get…more value? I know the Kings are shooting themselves in the foot as well, but they’re looking solid and at least they didn’t have him…then trade him away.

It is obvious Luka is the Rookie of the Year. And just like I predicted, Dallas is sitting at .500 and a game back from the 8th seed in the west (granted 8-14 are separated by two games). The point is, this pick that they traded for is looking like it might not even be THAT high. And it’s top 5 protected?!? How was this a great trade?

Trae Young has been better than expected for sure, but that doesn’t change the fact that this trade was horrible. I don’t care how optimistic you are, Trae Young will NEVER be the player Luka is and has no where near his potential. If you think otherwise and still refuse to see the light of day, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

 

 

 

[BothTeamsPlayedHardParticipant]

I’m not so sure Young has been better than expected. He has had three or four big games, and been a mess the rest. He is shooting 38 percent from the field, and a surprisingly poor 25 percent from three. 7 assists and 4 turnovers per is not great either. The minutes and opportunities for him were going to be a given because of where Atlanta is in its rebuild. I don’t think it is a situation where Atlanta should panic, but it is not a great spot. Having a gunner at 25 percent is bad. Sacramento protecting Bagley’s slight build is fine. He is going to get bigger, but it isn’t a stunner to anyone that he is thin at the moment. Everyone knew it, and there is promise given how he is doing against the 2s and in selected matchups with starter minutes.

[ball4life66Participant]

 Trae has 9 doubles doubles so its more than just 3 or 4 good games. Hawks still have a bright future as Kevin Huerter and John Collins look like studs and Young still has shown star potential. Both players can be good. And oh yeah Hawks have a shot at Zion Williamson + another potential top pick. Mavs has lost 4 in a row now and I think they still finish bottom 3 in the west. 

[high floorParticipant]

Would be a nasty inside out combo 

[royk927Participant]

15 pts 10 a 3 rbs only two turnovers ( one really wasn’t his fault).  Plus Schlenk potentially gets two more picks to add to what is looking solid in Collins and huerter. Lukas fine but I’m liking the moves schlenk made thus far as he seems to be building a team rather than swing for it all on one pick. It’s no surprise luka is having success (kids been playing against better completion).  But it’s like someone said earlier in the thread both teams got what they needed. In our case we got a pg that has shown flashes but has yet to put it all together and we get another pick plus our own. Exciting time to be a hawks fan. 

[zolaParticipant]

 If Hawks kept Luka and signed DeAndre Jordan, they would be in play-off this year

[HobbyOGParticipant]

 Hawks fan here..I’m ok with the trade..we continue to suck get the top pick and hopefully Dallas sucks and we get there pick and it’s a stud. We can’t determine who won until we see who the Hawks draft with the pick..I wish people stop speaking for us Hawks fans..let it play out. 

[Arc12345Participant]

Nobody is speaking for you, I’m speaking as a fellow Atlanta fan and lifelong native.

If you’re still okay with the trade, I’m not sure you really watch/know basketball. Yeah, we suck but newsflash: Dallas doesn’t suck. The pick is not going to net us anyone franchise changing like Luka, so I don’t understand how you’re still supporting the trade.

 

[BeardedDragon84Participant]

 Man… it seems you’re ready for people to apologize, but not have a logical discussion on the matter. Your Atlanta pick is going to be higher this year because of the trade, if they have one of the three worst records (good chance they do) then they tie for best chance to land Zion. The mavs pick could land anywhere mid lotto to late teens even if they make the playoffs (possible). Klay Thompson was taken 13th? If they are serious about building the "eastern warriors", they could find a guy struggling with his 3 as a freshman, but is supposed to develop as a shooter in Romeo Langford. Maybe walk away from these last two drafts with the "knock off Steph", "knock off Klay", and "knock off Dray" in Trey Romeo and Zion and see how they develop. Zion atleast could exceed that "knock off" label for sure. Some people wanna label him the "knock off Lebron". We have no idea yet if this draft day trade will pay off, I think you might want to hold off on the hot takes for a ‘lil bit until you atleast see what they get with their 2 picks this year, preferably a few years longer so you see how their core develops together. You want to be reactionary and say Luka is better than Trae, I dont think anyone is arguing that. But long term are they better for making this trade? We’ll never know, but at this point it’s quite possible. This could be a successful route to success for both teams, keep some hope alive.

[Arc12345Participant]

Definitely agree with your points. It all depends on what the Hawks land with the pick they received from Dallas. If they land a Klay type then you’re right, this becomes worth it.

I personally don’t like their mentality of building an “Eastern Warriors.” I don’t think you’ll be able to replicate their success, and I expect another style of basketball not identical to the warriors to take over in the league after they’ve had their run. At least with a different mold of players.

 For sure the warriors style of play is what makes them great, and obviously their players, but I don’t  think replication is the key to success.

I’m keeping hope alive, but it’s looking like Luka will be better than whatever they net next year + Trae Young. The Hawks also don’t have an incredible history of drafting well (albeit it was under completely different management). I loved their draft outside of Young as I think Huerter was absolutely the right pick and Spellman a solid pick (I would’ve gone Luka, Huerter, Okobo). But I digress. Time will tell as you said.

 

[BeardedDragon84Participant]

 Yeah, they have a lot of guys it will be interesting to watch develop. Hell, I’m an Orlando fan… I’m hoping for the resurgence of defense to take over the league and with Adam Silver running the show that looks unlikely, atleast you’re picking up shooters. This trade was a tank move by Atlanta, and unless Young starts dominating the NBA like he did the first half of the NCAA season it will probably work out netting you a Dukie or someone with a bright future with Atlanta’s own pick. If you put Luka on the Hawks would they still be a bottom 3-4 team? No idea, different teammates, coach, system, locker-room… I happen to think they would have won more games and so their own pick definitely needs to be added to this trade grade to a degree. You just keep collecting some good assets to avoid the purgatory of being unable to attract free agents and picking in the first half of the teens when your core tops out on their potential, Atlanta is so far away from that hell. So count yourself lucky and get behind your boys as they develop. It’s a long and winding bumpy road to the ultimate destination, and your fuel gauge isnt working. You’re standing at the gas station at the start and just decided to spend a little bit more time there pumping in some fuel hoping that’ll be enough to make it all the way there. Not a bad plan, as a southeast division rival I hope you fail miserably… but I’m sure I’ll see you out on the road in the many years to come.

[TRC1991Participant]

Trae Young

Kevin Huerter

Taurean Prince

John Collins

This is a nice core to build around. Trae Young will have a good career, he’s averaging 16, 7 and 3 as a rookie. Not shooting particulary well but he’s a rookie. Luka will also have a good career, probably better than Young’s, but it’s not like Atlanta traded Luka for Frank Ntilikina. Young will probably make at least 2 all-star teams.

[Arc12345Participant]

Two All Star Teams in his career…and the guy they traded away could be an All Star THIS YEAR in the West and is for sure a future All NBA Team type player.

Right.

 

[MopgrassParticipant]

I do remember thinking, on draft night, Trae Young and Huerter? That will be some elite shooting. As others mentioned, Trae hasn’t got it going from the 3 point line, but I think a lot of his percentage is due to a lack of other threats on the team. I think his shooting will really come around later. Last year, in college, at the beginning of the year he was really killing it from outside. Teams realized he was the only player on the team. Suddenly his percentages went plummeting. By the end of the year he got used to it and started turning it around. That’s what I expect to happen in the NBA. I still think he’s a really solid pick and I don’t care about the Hawks. 

[Memphis MadnessParticipant]

 Yep.

Tank for Zion.

He can be Atlanta’s Human Highlight Film 2.0.

My team, the Grizzlies, was sandwiched in the middle at 4 and I STILL don’t know what I think of him.  Superstar in the making? Fringe All Star? High level role player?

Luka looks like the top guy outta this class but I like some others too.  I was really high on Mohamed Bamba and Mitchell Robinson and the jury is kinda still out on these two bigs.

Luka Doncic’ floor now looks like a 6’8 J Will with super high intangibles and a genius basketball IQ.  

His CEILING is now: a little bit of Larry Bird and a little bit of Magic Johnson.  Maybe even more Magic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 I hated the trade for Atlanta at first. It even led me to believe a rumor I heard that Doncic didnt want to play for any team but Atlanta or New York. But looking at it now it seems as though Atlanta is quietly doing a Hinkie type rebuild and they intend on ending that rebuild by drafting their own Luka Doncic not during last years draft but instead during the 2019 draft. See this way they get the Dallas picks and Trae Young as value back for when they draft Doncic. If they drafted Doncic Hawks are 7th to 10th seed in the East and they build from there. This year if they draft Williamson, Barrett, Bol etc. they may even get another year to tank before becoming competitive.

It looks dumb right now but they are building assets and attempting to develop talent.

 

[SportsNinjaParticipant]

I don’t think the Kings are "shooting themselves in the foot" (which isn’t really the right term for regret) because Bagley has played pretty well and it’s very very early in their careers.

 

 

 

[StephGoneStephParticipant]

would have been more appropriate. 

[Arc12345Participant]

Agreed, sorry for the references.

[BeastMode716Participant]

 Doncic then that takes the ball out of Fox’s hands & right now Fox looks like the best young pointguard in the NBA & Fox fits Perfectly w/ the Kings playing style which is 100 MPH!

And I Luv Bagley for that Kings team – a 6’10” Lefty who can run the floor, great athlete, Explosive Leaper who can shoot the 3pt shot & exventually will be a 30+ minute per game guy that you can pencil in for 20 pts & 10 Reb every night – Bagley is almost getting 20 & 10 a game now playing Part time!

Doncic has been AMAZING! He’s a perenial All Star but players like Ayton & Bagley were better fits for their repective teams

We’ve seen this in recent years where teams draft players w/ over lapping skill sets in the Lottery b/c of BPA & they say "they are basketball players – they’ll figure it out on the floor" 

Well it really does not work that way – young players Must be put in a position to Succeed or their Confidence gets crushed & their Development suffers & they are basically ruined before they ever get started. 

There seems to be a trend that in order to elevate Doncic fans have to crush the teams that passed on him & it’s just not neccessary — now if we look back 10 years from now & the Mavs have won a Championship or two w/ Doncic leading then yea obviously these teams will get Killed for passing on him but let’s wait & see if that actually happens – there’s No rush – let’s all just enjoy watching it play out 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallerScriptParticipant]

Great post but 13 and 6 isn’t nearly 20 and 10

[KHAM83Participant]

 While I wanted neither (wanted JJJ at the time), you are just comparing the present, which isn’t necessarily wrong. But, Dallas and Atlanta got out of the trade what they needed. Replacing Doncic with Trae does not make us a playoffs team. Jordan wouldn’t have been interested in signing here. Dallas is competing for a playoff spot bc the team as a whole is better. They have a returning lottery pick in DSJ, a defensive/rebounding anchor in Jordan and lots of talented vets. Add to that, yes, Doncic is pretty good. No one debated that he wasn’t the most NBA ready rookie. 

As for Trae, he was a one and done pg. A year removed from high school. Other than Derrick Rose, what freshman pg came in and balled? Just look to Fox last year. The followers who just repeat what they read are calling him a bust and spilling the "kings can’t draft" stuff. Now, he’s balling and is a major reason their now competing. If you know anything about basketball, you wouldn’t just scout Trae’s shooting percentage of the teams records and consider him a waste. His playmaking and passing are legit. Not for a rookie, but for a starting pg in the NBA.  He’s showing that he can penetrate and get his shot off in the post, which was a huge question mark coming in. If his three point shooting numbers weren’t so horrible, his stat line would look really good. If I’m betting money, his shooting will improve with time and better players around him.

 

As for the Trae vs Luka debate, I don’t think we need Trae and/or Dallas pick to be better than Luka. We’re building a team, and to have a pg, with star potential, who can both score and run a team, I like that moving forward. You can argue when building you take the better player, but I like Young’s potential and think him as our pg is a great thing. Now, Schlenk (our GM) has to continue building this team right. Also, so far, he has been looking really good with all his other picks. 

 

 

[Andv1 WaitingParticipant]

Reasons this may not be a completly true that the Hawks screwed up…

We don’t know if Luka would have comeover if he had gone to the Hawks. As there was supposed buy out or could sign another deal with Real Madrid issues apparently if he didn’t get the right team-Hence alot of teams not overly keen to take risk with a top 5 pick on him..

The second pick from Dallas could potentially be packaged with the own pick or a player for a higher pick in the same draft..The pick from Dallas won’t be top 5 for them but 6-10 could still net them a good player if the balls bounce right for them. Imagine if the got 1-3 pick and a top 10 pick that could help speed their rebuild up…

Trae-gives them more of a known commoditie and they can market that to the Fans while they unintentionally stink and get some high picks in at least 2 drafts…They may not have been able to do this with Luka as he has played all of his career overseas…The Hawks are doing a less obvious version of the process and want to either try recreate GSW or Tank until they get their stars…

Luka is good but would he have elevated the hawks to a playoff seed or into contender status in next 2 seasons(assuming they kept Dennis S)…Probably not,the hawks wouldn’t have been bad enough for a high pick again or good enough to win it all and still wouldn’t have got any big name F.A’s through the door..So essentially the same as before..So why not try something a little different and hope for a more sustainable model/more likely to have a deeper team as they will all be on differing deals and eligible for bigger ones at different times allowing them a bigger window than the previous one..

Will Luka win ROY yes and is he a blessing for Dallas Yes most likely it will be between Ayton and Him..Will Trae never be as good as Luka IMO yes as he is just to short to be a two way player vs Luka who is tall enough to guard 4-1 but to say the Hawks have screwed up is only if you believe it was a 1 for 1 swap..Also the Kings didn’t really need him as they just drafted Fox and had Buddy H and Bogdon all who either play PG or play a similar style which needs the ball to be effective like Luka and he may not have come over for them as mentioned in point 1 due to a logjam..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BeastMode716Participant]

 as long as their was Intelligent Reasoning behind it & what I mean is as long as a team has an explainable Plan for their Draft decisions that is all you can ask b/c we are dealing w/ teen agers – so you can have the Very best plan & take what seems like a Perfect player & Still miss 

Look at Markelle Fultz – the Entire NBA – Luv’d that trade the day it happened & Fultz was considered a Can’t Miss prospect & a Great fit in Phila & the reasoning behind what the Sixers did made sense but it just did Not work out

So let’s look at what Atl was thinking. The Hawks had just hired Lloyd Banks as their new young head coach – Banks was Brett Brown’s Asst in Phila for the Entire major "Process" Rebuild & no matter how you feel about the Sixers they won only 10 games just 3 seasons ago now they have 3 All Stars – an MVP candidate, are a Top 5 NBA team & will be for years to come – I have No idea if they will win a Title but that Rebuild worked

And the Atl GM is Malik Rose – another guy w/ Major Phila / Spurs connections – played college ball at Drexel (Phila) & pro ball w/ the Spurs where Brett Brown was an Asst coach for a Decade+ & Rose has major ties w/ the Sixers 

Brown Rebuilt the Sixers in the style & image of the Spurs – the Pass is King, Ball Movement, Defense & a pace & Space offense & Brown is Big on the 3 pt shot to space the floor & Stretch the Defense & Phila has a Culture that is the Envy of the NBA — That Phila team functions like a College team – tehy all eat together, spend all their free time at the Practice center & they all have really tight bonds even w/ Ex players 

Banks & Rose have brought this Exact same mind set to Atlanta. Should Atlanta have drafted Doncic #3 – as of right now that appears to be a Duh of course its a Yes – but let’s dig deeper & see what they Say they were thinking. 

According to Rose & Banks the Hawks want to have a primaryu distributor who is a Long Distance 3pt threat who can Also dribble penetrate & is a Great passer — Doncic was a 33% 3pt Shooter in Europe – even though experts Loved Doncic most figured his 3pt shooting would Dip below 33% in the NBA b/c Defenders were so much more athletic & Quick

They new Young was no where near as Developed as Doncic but they Luv’d his skill set & believed it was perfect for their long term Rebuild & eveidence they were right is both Banks & Rose believed the presence of Young & his under rated passing ability would Really open the floor for their other young cornerstone Collins b/c Collins would have a Ton of Space & Collins is having a break out season 

Furthermore, even w/ Doncic being so polished No one believed the Mavs would contend for the playoffs – getting the Extra pick was a Huge part of the Deal. But that thinking is dangerous b/c once teams lose that 1st Rnd pick they no longer are Tanking & w/ So many other teams tankins that pick never turns out to be as high as the trading team thought. Look at Boston w/ that Phila trade – this time last year Celtics fans believed they’d be getting the Lakers 2018 pick at #2 thru #5 & a Lot of Celtics fans thought if Doncic goes #1 we can get Ayton at #2! That Lakers pick fell all the way to #10 & the Kings pick this year looks like it’ll be even worse at #12 thru #16

And w/ Dallas signing DeAndre Ayton – which was a Monster pick up – that Mavs pick will be just like the Kings at the back of the Lottery. But at the time of the Trade the Atl Hawks believed that Dallas 2019 pick would be top 8. 

So I do understand why the Hawks made the moves they made & there was intelligence behind it — actually the Atl Front Office may have thought about it TOO much – but even w/ all the evidence the Hawks are Very happy w/ the move & we should reallt check back in 3 – 5 years to see how this all works out b/c I actually like what BOTH Dallas AND Atlanta are doing w/ their Rebuilds. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KHAM83Participant]

 You meant Lloyd Pierce…..not G G G G G Unit! 

[HitsterParticipant]

 The Hawks could have certainly made use of Luka if they had drafted him but there was the issue of whether he wanted to go to a bigger market team and the trade offer from Dallas was fairly good. Even if Dallas did make the play offs it could still well be a top 20 pick. The Cavs pick is unlikely to come over this year but the Hawks have other future picks due and will have cap space next summer to look to add a free agent or two or to take on salary dumpsv to add assets.

John Collins is looking a good player so adding a Zion, Bol Bol etc to the team gives them a young core going forward with Trae plus support from Prince and Huerter etc.

Trae’s 3 point shooting has been a disappointment this year but his assist level is fairly good and he can cut the turnovers out as he gains a better feel of how to be an NBA ball carrier.

 

 

[hawkmanParticipant]

I still can’t understand why people are comparing a rookie with pro experience overseas to a one and done rookie point guard. Why does Trae have to be dominant in year one in order for the trade to be considered a good one? When has a rookie PG come in and dominate in his first year in the league? The people who criticized Fox last season as a rookie failed to understand that that was his floor.This is Trae’s floor. He needs time in the weight room and he needs in game experience against NBA defenses. He’s already improved in 30 games. The kid is going to be a star PG in this league. Dallas is currently moonwalking back into the Lottery so that just makes this trade even better because the Hawks need quality talent at multiple positions after the roster was gutted.The trade was a heck of a gamble but I’m glad Schlenk is playing the long game and focusing on asset acquisition.

[OhCanada-Participant]

What Atlanta got was Trae Young who looks like he will be a career fringe Allstar at worst, a 1st round pick which is Top 5 protected and looks like it will be 9th to 18th pick, wide margin, and most importantly they didnt end their rebuild so whenever they do decide to be competitive they will have more assets.

Is Atlanta gauranteed to get a top 3 pick this year? No they arent but they have a good chance to.

 Now is RJ Barrett, Zion Williamson or Bol Bol as good as Luka Doncic?As of right now I’d say probably not but the idea of having Williamson playing with Young sounds amazing.

Whether Atlanta would have been a playoff team this year with Doncic is debatable, but they defenitely would have been better than bottom three in the league. So when you are evaluating this trade you have to take into consideration that trading Doncic also gives value to their own draft pick, tremendous value that has the potential to rival Doncic’s overall talent. Plus you get Young and a mid 1st round pick which they have done well with as of late.

 

[joe2324Participant]

they got smoked in this trade. Luka will be an all time great while  Young will be an all star, but never an elite level talent. 

[khaled_a_dParticipant]

pre-draft: Everyone says best available player
post-draft: Nah, he was wrong fit.

I am yet to see best available player prove really wrong. Embiid was bad fit with Sixers after drafting Noel but they selected him regardless and it looks like good decision. Sixers traded up for Fultz because he was the guard they needed and he proves they should have just drafted Tatum.

If Luka is the best available player you draft him and figure the fit later, if he is better than bagley then Kings done a mistake,period. Fit doesn’t change that.
If Trae and this year draft aren’t worth Luka, Hawks done a mistake, they could have tanked with him if they wanted, let’s not pretend that teams fail to find ways of tanking.
Those teams simply didn’t rate Luka very high, and they weren’t alone. It was reported long before the draft. ESPN guys actually said it wasn’t between Luka & Trae for Atlanta but Trae & JJJ.

That said, those teams has probably drafted good players and they shouldn’t be so sad about it, what’s done is done and they have acquired good players

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Philly also picked best player available the next year which was Okafor and was a bad fit.

[Insane13Participant]

But he’s a bad fit for the league not the Sixers. That argument doesn’t work in the NBA anymore. Luka should’ve went first figure the rest out later. Fit is used for analytics guys. Like jalen rose would say positions are for people who don’t play the game.  

[khaled_a_dParticipant]

No, best available player for Sixers was Porziņģis not Okafor. They have projected best available player wrong and that was the problem, not the strategy.

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Yeah I agree with you just saying anything can happen. At the time Okafor was considered best player available. Either way even know Im defending Atlantas plan I thought the Doncic route was the best route before the draft during the draft and still do after the draft and unless Atlanta becomes a contender I doubt that will ever change because at least Doncic is a piece you can hope to develop into an important peice on a contending team.

[mowestenParticipant]

So … if I’m reading this thread correctly — the Atlanta Hawks selected a lesser player because selecting a better player might have won them more games and cost them a shot at drafting an even better player this year.

Interesting theory. And definitely sounds like ssomething the Atlanta Hawks would do. 

  

[OhCanada-Participant]

 Well he also had a buyout option on his contract with Real Madrid before the draft. He may have used that as leverage to decide where he goes. My theory was that he had only agreed to exit his contract if drafted to Dallas or New York. Dallas to play with Dirks organization and New York for Porzingis. I just couldnt believe the Kings and Hawks passed up on him I guess I just give them the benefit of doubt.

[Dell87Participant]

 I agree if they get Zion, then a core of Zion , Young , Prince and Collins is not terrible. Get a veteran respected coach in their and at least on paper the potential to run uptempo with those young legs are a legit possibility. It would all depend on Young and Prince becoming more efficient. Cause you know Collins is going to bring it and I’m guessing Zion will too. If not then RJ Barrett wouldnt be a bad plan b 

Pg. Young 

Sg. ??? 

SF. Prince 

Pf. Zion 

C. Collins    or 

Pg. Young 

Sg. Barrett

SF. Prince

Pf. ????

C. Collins .  

Either way I would be optimistic with those potential lineups

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Author]

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