[Afactor4Participant]

 Today on TNT after the Bulls game. Any predictions 15 minutes before tip off?

 

[zha123Participant]

 clippers are on a roll..i say they win and blake starts a new double double streak

[omphalosParticipant]

Yeah I’m calling a Griffin victory in the individual match-up at least, he’ll get Aldridge in foul trouble and limit his minutes. Or, Aldridge will have to be very careful due to injury woes in Portland and Blake will have his way with him. That said, Aldridge will still get his against Griffin if he can stay on the floor, and it might be enough to get Portland the win. But I hope not, Clippers for the win haha.

[iguapops420Participant]

As much I’ve been liking Blake lately, Something tells me L.A. is going to have a BIG night. Look for Nicolas to have a nice night as well. Big game for two young forwards. Blake wins the rebounds and may get the better numbers, but I sense a lower shooting percent, and a loss. He’ll get his dub-dub.

[LazarusMunozParticipant]

its the battle of who force there will on the other team….the run n gun clips or the methodical T Blazers…its gonna be a good one

[Afactor4Participant]

 Looks like their not even guarding eachother -__- Oh well… 

C’mon Clipper Nation!

[LazarusMunozParticipant]

The Blazers just cant stop the speed of The Clips right now

[Ralph_WiggumParticipant]

Just hoping that no more Blazers go down with an injury

[iguapops420Participant]

 Looks like my predictions for Blake and LaMarcus have been pretty spot on so far.

[omphalosParticipant]

I didn’t realise it was Portland home game, Clippers aren’t going to pull this one out.

[iguapops420Participant]

End of the game, Port takes the W and Aldridge another big night. Would like to have seen more boards but overalla good night. Blake got his double-double on a bad shooting percent. Big numbers in a losing effort. Must mean he’s not all-star worthy, Huh Urban? 

Really though, good game, Blake just has trouble scroing against decent athletes with length, or big physical players. Tough going against Aldridge and Pryz who are just these kind of players. It’s actually why I expected the big rebounds/poor shooting/loss. They’ll bounce back, I still think 8th seed is within reach if Denver and Phx end up blowing it up, or Port stops winning with yet another injury. 7th would be nicer, LAL vs. LAC first round. WOW. That’s the kind of publicity and league-wide recognition that can start to turn a franchise around. 

[getacomb]

 Blake’s defense is pathetic, I saw atleast 3 weak side blocks he could have had, especially since he has such  a "high motor" and works hard every second he’s out there…not true. He doesn’t work on the defensive end and has a ton of work to do. LA was beastin’ him down low

[iguapops420Participant]

 He’s still a rookie defensively. With his 6’11 wingspan, and lack of overall development at this point we can never expect him to be a big shotblocker. But in time, his overall team defense will develop with experience. I could actually see them developing a sort of Thibbedau defensive scheme allowing him to use his quickness as a roam defender the way K.G. was used.

[Afactor4Participant]

I don’t think Blake will ever be a 2 Blocks a game shot blocker, he just doesn’t have the timing. The reason he doesn’t attempt to block a shot from the weakside is because he knows he doesn’t have the timing and doesn’t want to risk getting in foul trouble. It’s not that he’s not working hard on the defensive end. 

[omphalosParticipant]

I think Blake is better suited to defending SFs to be honest, long PFs are just posting him up at this stage, and he seemed to have little trouble staying with Lebron to close out quarters when they played the heat. He’s definitely not a shot blocker, and he’s a bit of a weak point in the D against teams with offensively gifted PFs.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

The Rose Garden is a tough place to play, especially for a young team on the second game of a back to back. The Blazers do a great job playing off of their crowd.

Aldridge played well last night. Nobody on the Clippers could really defend him. He was too skilled for Jordan and too long for Griffin.

Griffin didn’t play well last night. That’s all. It was one of those games that every player has. He’s probably had three or four bad games the entire season. Players with length give him a little trouble, but people have to understand… It takes four to five players to stop Griffin. The Blazers were packing the paint all night. Like 3-4 players were collapsing on him. Griffin needs to start recognizing that and getting rid of the ball quicker. Like it was pointed out, the Clippers offense is somewhat stagnant when Griffin catches the ball sometimes.

Defensively, Griffin will never be a shot blocker. He’s not a bad defender, but he’s a rookie. He’s going to have good nights and bad nights.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

"Big numbers in a losing effort. Must mean he’s not all-star worthy, Huh Urban?"

The Clippers were actually in the game though… It’s not like they were down 20 something points and Griffin was just putting up pointless numbers. That would’ve been Kevin Love and the Timberwolves vs the Clippers last game. The game was out of reach, yet Love was in getting his numbers.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Seriously, this guy may not have the numbers of Griffin or Love, but he is a better PF. I attribute his numbers to the Blazers style of play, which is slower than many teams, leading to fewer possessions, and actually focuses on half court defense rather than run gun offense. Still, the guy is averaging nearly the same amount of points as his contemporaries and he is winning games with a truly depleted roster. To me, he merits being an All-Star, and I used to say K-Love would be my choice, but I have a feeling it will come down to 2/3. If it does, I choose Aldridge and Griffin. Consistency is very important, and many measure this through statistical average, but it is also measured through winning match-ups and stacking up W’s. In this case, Aldridge is killing these two players. Everytime he has gone up against Love or Griffin this year, he has not only come out on top, but he has scored incredibly efficiently and shown that he is the more developed player. Yes, he has a height advantage, and his wingspan is about a foot longer than either of them, but basketball is not always fair :). When you can use these physical gifts to your advantage, you get rewarded, hopefully with an All-Star bid for LA. Believe me, at the start of the year, I did not at all think he would be deserving. However, much like Griffin, this man has gone off in the last few months and is putting up huge numbers and winning games. The Blazers have a 3 game lead on the 8 spot right now, and their is no question as to their team MVP, #12.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I don’t have any problem with Aldridge being an All-Star. He’s stepped up his game since Roy went out and has the Blazers in the playoffs.

I also give Nate McMillian a lot of credit though. Even though the Blazers have had some injuries (becoming the norm), they’re still a very good defensive team. They also play well at home behind their crowd. They’ll always have a chance to win games due to the way they play. Slow on offense and defend tough in the half-court. They’re tough to be in the Rose Garden regardless of who they put on the floor.

Aldridge is more skilled offensively (shooting, footwork and moves around the rim) than Griffin is now, but I’d still take Griffin over him. This is Aldridges 5th season and Griffin is already just as good as he is. It’s taken Aldridge five seasons to be aggressive consistently and play with his back to the basket.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 Griffin had 20, 18, 4 assists, and 2 steals and did a suicide dive everytime their was a loose ball, what do you mean he didn’t play well, because he shot poorly and his team didn’t win?  The Clippers wounldn’t of even had a shot at being at that game without him and we are talking about one team that was suppose to be in the hunt for the first pick and another team that was suppose to be battling for a top 5 seed.  

Griffin doesn’t have the wingspan to be a shot blocker if he plays power forward.  Griffin is a rebounder, not a shot blocker.  He mostly don’t get blocked shots because he keeps his man boxed out and stays in position for the rebound instead of leaving his feet and getting out of position.  That why D. Jordan is in there to get blocks.  I could see Blake eventually adding 1.5 steals per game because of his quickness. It def isn’t a timing issue. You get get that many rebounds and dunks without advanced timing, it’s length that’s an issue.  L.A. got at least 5 inches of of length on him to shoot over.

When I first saw Blakes combine numbers, which were better then Beasley’s who plays, SF, i thought he could be a SF.  Now he seems even faster with much more perimeter ability, see: 57% pt. shooting.

Does anybody else think he could be a SF?

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

His box score looked nice, but he didn’t play as well as he usually does offensively. And he didn’t play too well defensively this game either. And w/o Gordon’s big second half, the Clippers probably get blown out. Griffin just didn’t have the offensive impact that he normally has.

And you’re 100% right about him having timing. The dude’s timing is unbelievable. It’s more of a length issue.

People thought Mike Dunleavy was crazy when he said Griffin would play a little small forward as a rookie. I personally think he’d have trouble defending the elite small forwards on the wing, but he could play spot minutes there. He hasn’t played small forward this season though. It’s been either power forward or center.

[Mr. 19134Participant]

 I actually think that in a few years Griffin could play exclusively at Small Forward.  And it will be to his advantage he just needs to add to his already developing perimeter game.  He is expanding his range game by game is is already confident enough to take and hit 3’s.  His first step is just insane.  And his dribble game is better then people think.  Did you see the game against the Pacers?  He was crossing people, putting it between his legs then spinning around people, he was doing everything you would expect your small forward to do.  And how about in the first quarter yesterday against the Blazers where he put on his burners and raced down the court for an easy dunk, it was easy to see on that play that he just too everybody off guard with his open court speed.

And instead of matching up with Aldridge, do you know how bad he would abuse Batum if he played against him all game?  If would be like child abuse.

[SteroidParticipant]

How does Griffin not have good timing when he’s one of the best rebounders in the league.. Sounds contradictory to me. Karl Malone averaged over 1 block per game only 3 times in his career, who is arguably the best PF ever, and we’re knocking Griffin because he isn’t a shot blocker, which is one of the most overrated, defensive stats in basketball? He’s one of the best PFs in the league right now, and some people are suggesting he should move to SF? Really?? It would be interesting to see him play at SF, but he’s playing better than most PFs in the league right now, so why change that? If that’s the case, we need to lobby to get Nowitzki to move to SG, who’s even less of a PF than Griffin.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Is very different, but I agree with Indianabasketball that it is more of a length issue. Griffin playing SF would be a pretty bad idea honestly, it does not play to his strengths, why fix something that is not broken? Guarding SF’s, possibly, but Griffin is a PF, he does not need to play the wing, it would be coutnerproductive. Also, I would take Griffin over Aldridge as well, at least if you are looking at the future, but right now, LA has put it together. One thing he will never have is Griffin’s brute strength and athleticism though, plus he does not play with the fire Griffin seems too. I am very impressed with Griffin’s rebounding, and LA has never been great on the boards. He is great because he is tall, long and very skilled for a player his size. Aldridge also is not a great shot blocker, even with his ridiculous length, but I do agree that shot blocking is a defensive statistic that often gets overblown. Some people have great timing for it, some really do not. SI did a really good article on the art of blocking shots a few years ago, and great athletes are not always great shot blockers. Even so, great athletes, with proper coaching, still have a major advantage defensively. He does not have incredible length, but he should definitely become a solid defender, regardless of him becoming a good shot blocker. It is about desire, and he has clearly shown that.

[LAKE SHOW]

Everyone gets numbers even when they are losing, are they suppossed to just give up?..never understood why people say that. it makes zero sense. The clippers have been blown out in a couple of games through the years yet no one says the players are trying to just get there numbers.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

I think you are missing the point. I do not think people are saying they should give up at all, they are maybe pointing out that players on losing teams numbers sometimes are not accurate portrayals of that players value. No one is saying Kevin Love is a bad player for averaging eye opening rebounding numbers and scoring 20 per game. What they are saying is, their might be better players on other teams. If Love was averaging similar numbers to Pau Gasol, and the Timberwolves were like 6-8 seed, than odds are he would be a lock for the game. His numbers are not the problem, they just do not necessarily make him a better player than Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, LaMarcus Aldridge or Blake Griffin. These players are all either parts of winning teams or have gotten the best of Love individually (Not to mention beating his team, which is awful, but getting the better of him).

The label of someone "just getting their numbers", usually applies to people who are on bad teams that put up numbers they might not be accumulating on a good team. It may be a poor saying, but when a player just seems to be content with putting up numbers as opposed to winning or getting the full use of their potential, than they get labelled as that. Some people used to believe Patrick Ewing, who was a great player and played on winning teams, used to be content getting his 20/10 and All-Star appearance as opposed to really taking the next step to being a truly dominant player. It may not always be the case, but when a player is on a losing team for a majority of their career, they get labelled as just being content with getting numbers. It is definitely a matter of circumstance, because sometimes players on winning teams might be better because of certain players playing on their team. However, victories are easier to side with than losses.

[iguapops420Participant]

 IndianBasketball, how can you honestly act as if Blake is putting up numbers and losing but you consider him an allstar, yet Kevin Love is putting up similar scoring numbers, with more rebounds. And don’t tell me that it’s because he’s on a crap team because if that were the case, guys like LBJ, Griffin, KG would have been putting up those kind of crazy historical numbers as well. I’ve gone onrecord as saying that Blake is the superstar of the two, but that Love can become just as succesful as a complimentary player, but just because you’re more of a complimentary, doesn’t mean you’re not an All-Star. Not his fault he’s too unathletic to dominate scoring. He does what he can with what he has, and if you or anyone else tries to discredit what Love has accomplished this season, you my friend are just being a hater. 

Seems to me that K-Love is doing exactly what he was last year when he had Jefferson beside of him who was a consistent 10-12 rebound guy prior to teaming with Love who was still able to get the dub-dub in very limited minutes. It’s insane that people are actually trying to act as if the guy isn’t a starter on a champion, or that he’s simply a 12-8 guy. Insanity. 

For the record, Blake wasn’t much of a winner until Baron came back with a fire ready to create for these youngens and started acting like a veteran. B-Diddy on his last legs is a 100 times better than ANY playmaker that Minny has. His name alone carries a presence with it. Something that Love doesn’t have the luxury of playing with. Not to mention LAC has developed a MUCH more balanced team from top to bottom.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

I’ve watched every single Clippers game and there are only a handfull of games that they haven’t been in. And I don’t mean making some buckets when the game is out of reach and making the final score look better than what the game actually was. They’ve been IN games and against good teams.

It’s not Griffin’s fault that Davis came into camp injured or that Kaman twisted his ankle. What I saw was a rookie carrying a team with four players ages 22 and younger in the starting lineup, and an underperforming bench. There’s only so much he could do. He had a rookie starting point guard. The starting point guard for the Timberwolves has been Luke Ridnour, who was just as important to the Bucks as Brandon Jennings the year before.

When is the last time winning or losing even matter to the Timberwolves? When is the last time they played in a meaningful game?

I’ve never said Love isn’t a good player. I’ve just said that I don’t think he’s an All-Star. He’s just padding stats on a bad team that rarely ever has a legit chance at winning the game. But that’s just my opinion. If that’s hating, then so be it.

[iguapops420Participant]

he’s been carrying them? Wow to their amazing 16 wins. Yeah, he carried them. He’s no more deserving than LO,Love, Gordon, Ellis, and Aldridge. Pack it in the paint and suddenly Blake becomes a simple athletic rebounder who shoots bad percent. He’s a superstar in the making, but let’s not try and act as if he’s something that he is not. IMO, they are all deserving of an ASG nod, but in the west where there is massive talent, numbers alone don’t get you there, you have to have wins. Too much talent putting up similar numbers with wins to pass up for an unproven rookie. Especially when so many others have been snubbed for players with more seniority. Griffin has had a monsterous season, but I just cannot give it to him when hasn’t proven anything other than 40 some games. Is he an all-star? yes. Is love an All-star Yes. Will they both get it? probably not, but you cannot act as if the comparison for deserving ASG nod is WORLDS aprat for the two. Both are having terrific years on losing teams. Point blank. Both are all-stars who are both very deserving. Ended.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

And you don’t think teams have been packing it in the paint against Griffin all season lol? Teams have been doing that, so whatever point you’re trying to make is mute.

And my point was that, other than Gordon, Griffin didn’t have much to work with at the beginning of the season. Considering he’s only a rookie, he could only do so much to keep the team competitive. He had a rookie point guard who didn’t really play point guard in college. A center who barely played last season. A rookie small forward making the transition from playing power forward in college to playing the three in the NBA. A bench that didn’t produce at all or have established roles.

However, since players have started to get healthy and gel, the Clippers have been a .500 ball club (still missing Kaman) since starting 1-13. Griffin has put up INSANE numbers in those WINS. The Timberwolves started the season terrible and are still terrible. They won’t play for anything the entire season.

Love is having an All-Star caliber season statistics wise, but no… He isn’t an actual All-Star in my opinion. There are a ton of people having All-Star caliber seasons, but not all of them can be on the All-Star team.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Dude, Love isn’t exactly a seasoned veteran either. So Ryan Gomes and Rasual Butler aren’t established vets? I agree that he didn’t have much to work with, but you’re truely going to act as if the T-Wolves have any kind of talent themselves Outside of Beasley, name one other person who can consistently get their own shot on that team? And don’t even bring that well they have X amount of top 10 picks blah blah blah because they had those same type of picks with KG and yet he still never managed to do much of anything save for one real year. This isn’t a conversation about who’s the better player as I already went on record as saying Griff is on his way to Franchise Savior status and Love is simply a complimentary player. It is YOUR opinion that he is less deserving of the ASG nod than Blake, but until the actual selections, it is simply that. I maintain MY opinion that both are near equally deserving of an ASG selection. My though tho, is that neither makes it.

And no, teams haven’t been packing it in the paint on Blake. Countless times I see him free roaming without a body on him.An athlete like that HAS to have a body kept on him at all times, otherwise he’s gonna be able to come outta nowhere for rebounds. Funny that when he finds a REAL defensive presence on him, he tends to come up with poor shooting percentages. Point is, that his percentages took a good rise when Diddy came back. A luxury, Love does not have. He has to creat far more offense for himself than Griffin. Not to mention he has less around him to worry about.

And no, Griff is not a rookie, was the man gettin paid last year? Was he gettingto travel with the team, learn small things from Vets? May be his first season, but let’s not kid ourselves into acting as if being with the team last year didn’t help in his development. Not to mention he played in Pre-Season last year. That little experince is very helpful. He got to see and learn just like a rookie does. Don’t underestimate what being around the environment can do. Not to take away anything he has done in his first full year in the NBA. It’s just sicking to set here and read you talk as if Blake has been such a winner that he is WORLDS ahead of Blake as an AS.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Blake isn’t your everyday run of the mill rookie. He’s in a different situation. 

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

Yea, you’re right… Teams haven’t packed in the paint against Griffin this season lol. Yea… The game vs the Blazers was the first time all season that any team thought packing the paint against him would be a great idea lol.  

You say the Timberwolves have no talent, but then advise me to ignore the amount of lottery picks they have playing for them lol. How much sense does that make? They have Luke Ridnour, who was arguably the best backup point guard in the league last year. They have Martell Webster who was a valuable contributor on a playoff team and who was a lottery pick himself. They have Michael Beasley, the #2 pick of 2008. They have Corey Brewer, who was a lottery pick. Wesley Johnson… Lottery pick. Do I need to keep going on? They’re a bad team, but this isn’t a team with "no talent" as you suggest. And I don’t know why you brought KG into this… Other than his rookie season, I don’t EVER remember one of his Timberwolves team being this bad.

Once again… I didn’t say Love wasn’t having an All-Star caliber season. I just don’t think he’s an actual All-Star. There are quite a few players putting up All-Star caliber statistics, but not all of them can be All-Stars. I think Griffin is an actual All-Star due to the improvement that the Clippers have shown because of HIM. He’s not only putting up great statistics… He’s making his teammates better and literally beginning to change the entire culture of that team. Like I said, since starting 1-13, they’ve been an above .500 ball club. They play like they expect to win every game.

Regardless of what you think about Griffin’s standing, he’s considered a rookie by the NBA, so I’ll go with that. Of course he learned things last season, but he saw zero on court time against actual NBA *regular season* competition.

I never said Blake Griffin was "worlds" a part from Kevin Love lol. And if it makes you sick, then you should get a barf bag lol.

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

And it’s funny you’re giving Baron Davis so much credit, when before the season most considered him to be washed up.

And I’d give Griffin (and Gordon) more credit towards Davis’ success than the other way around. Davis has been lifeless that last two seasons, but has all of the sudden started playing with a spark this season lol. I wonder why? It was Griffin who led a team only meeting after starting 1-13, NOT Davis.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Don’t be fooled, they play has simply inspired Baron to play up more. And I agree they (Griffin/Gordon) do way more for the team, but you underestimate what having a Baron Davis on the court can do. Yeah he’s washed up, but he’s still a guy COACHES know is a threat. And yes, I said Minny has a bunch of lotto picks, but that doesn’t mean much when you make the wrong draft selections. Corey BRewer, Wes Johnson, Johnny Flynn right after Rubio) wtf, what kind of picks are those. Wasted picks is what they are. And I’ve never once said anything negative towards Baron as to being "washed up". Out of shape and on a bad team, yeah. But that’s what Baron does when he’s on a team that isn’t winning. He sulks, has a bunch of injuries and gets fat. It’s regular, historic Baron. In all honesty I didn’t expect he was actually having issues. And I do concur that Baron Doesn’t actually do that much compared to years past, but the simple threat of him having games like that make it easier to not pack the paint on Blake.

When i said he hasn’t had it packed in all season I didn’t mean at all. Simply haven’t done it nearly enough. Go back and look at some of his more horrid shooting nights and tell it wasn’t because of that. Forces him to either shoot a J which he isn’t that comfortable with in game just yet, or try and create in the post over the length. And Actually I must have misread your OP because I thought you had said he wasn’t an All-Star. My bad. 

[mbdParticipant]

Blake has outplayed Aldridge 2 out of 3 games. He had 20 and 14 his first game ever. 21 and 15 the next time they played. Both games he shot 50%. How does he have trouble with a long defender?

[IndianaBasketballParticipant]

To be honest… I think Griffin’s performance against the Blazers had more to do with the fact it was the Clippers’ fourth game in five nights than Aldridge and Pryzbilla.

Griffin showed again last night why I think he’s an actual All-Star… Under a minute to go in the game and Golden State has all the momentum… The Clippers run a play for Griffin and he *calmly* sinks a three-pointer and acts as if he knew it was going in. Then at the end of the game, he keeps the ball alive off of a missed free-throw and basically seals the game for the Clippers. He also had a key offensive rebound right before that.

When you consider all he’s done, I don’t see how he can be left off of the All-Star team. He’s given Baron Davis new life. Has started to change the culture of the *Clippers* and the way fans look at them… I mean, how many people are watching the Clippers now? The Clippers are now selling out games… I’ve been watching the Clippers for two seasons and, other than Clipper Darrelll, I’ve never seen fans jumping around and going nuts. His numbers are clearly All-Star worthy. He makes his teammates better and makes the game easier for them (8 assists last night)… He’s showing up and making plays in games when it matters most. I just don’t know what more he can do. And since starting 1-13, the Clippers have played above .500 ball.

[iguapops420Participant]

 He’s defintilry an all-star. But doesn’t mean he makes it. Too many deserving people with seniority on their sides. Probably will end up making it though the way he’s been keeping it going. It wasn’t all Aldridge mbd. Prz was really who I was referring to with the physicality, he has the length that works. It’s actually probably why he had far less trouble when it was Camby and Aldridge. Both guys have good length but neither will ever be accused of being physically imposing players. I love Blake, feel like he’s the player Lebron would be if he put all the Ego aside and just win. Playing as a 4 NIGHTMARE. But I’ve just seen too many times him trying to create out of the post by back guys down and fail, where as he has a good face-up game thanks to decent ballhandling and a monster first step. He uses the spin nicely and has terrific body contol in air similar to Bron, the problem is that I treuely believe Baron is a lot bigger to the success than he’s given credit for. 

Yeah, Blake kept them almost relevant, and got Baronb excited about basketball again, but having vet players with the kind of rep Baron brings, makes it a lot harder for players to sag onto Blake. Not to mention they run some very nice pick and roll together. I’ve just seen it so many times that young bigs have DECENT success then get a vet pg with a some reputation in the L and suddenly start winning. The Clips after getting last leg Sam Cassell actually comes to mind, though they had more vets but still some moderately young players. Really, I think they shoud SERIOUSLY look to try and get Tayshaun Prince and Villanueva for Kaman and Gomes or something of the like. That’s the kind of trade for vet leadership and need. Charlie would be a nice third big who can extend the floor, and Tayshaun would play his point-forward glue-guy role he always had. That’s a lineup that IMO can make 8th seed.

[iguapops420Participant]

 Btw, Did Blake get the 30,20,10 last night? 

[iguapops420Participant]

 Wow. And now first thing I see on ESPN as I go to check the statline, Blake for MVP? Yeah, that’s EXACTLY what he is WTF? If Kobe f*&%*$ Bryant couldn’t get MVP in 06 with the team he had, no  Way Blake does it with this crew. Just goes to show how credible ESPN is. Blake is his teams MVP though, with Gordon. Co-MVP’s. Can’t really say one has been more impactful than the other. 

 

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