What are the Suns thinking?
The Suns resign two extremely old players in Grant Hill and Steve Nash. What are they thinking? IMO they should just completely blow up the team and start over. Trade away the old for at least SOME value. Maybe a couple young pieces to get the franchise rejuvenated. Lets face it...theyre old. And lets be honest they have very little young talent, Earl Clark is a good place to start. And i believe they could resign Amare and build around him. It makes me wonder how Steve Kerr still has a job...
and you're asking now what the Sun's are thinking? This team looked like they were going to be a factor year in and year out back in 2003, and now they look like their battling it out for the 8th and final spot in the West.
Lol. Don't sweat the Point System man, sometimes people just give negatives just because they can. Don't worry 'bout it. That was a good point you brought up about Grant Hill mentoring Earl Clark.
They really wanna rebuild through staying competitive and have the young guys learn from them. They wanna try to be in the playoffs every year. They are nowhere near contenders but they will still probably sell out every home game. I don't get how teams wanna "blow up" and try to get better through the draft. It works in some cases but look at The Bucks. Years of losing and who do they have to show for it? Andrew Bogut. I like what they are doing but at some point they need to trade for another star player. They have the right pieces to package and could be very competitive if they made the right move.
I just heard the other day out of his own mouth that Steve Kerr is trying to make the team younger...changed his mind quick I guess.
3 mill for Hill to help mentor Earl Clark who's their pg, center for the future. These team is in big trouble and no 1st round pick either thats already gone to Golden State. Extending Nash makes lil sense their only hope is if Robin Lopez starts to play like this brother & Amare is traded for picks and some young talent.
If you want to understand how the Suns got into this position, you have to examine their draft history the last several years. Long before Steve Kerr arrived on the scene, owner Robert Sarver literally gave away between 5 and 6 number one draft choices in order to save money. And I mean he gave them away. In most cases he received cash or a future second round slot for those premium choices that are so critical to every team in the league. In essence, Sarver buried the future of the franchise.
If Robert Sarver was the owner of the Knicks and made those horrible decisions, trading away maybe a half dozen number one choices in 6 years, he would have been crucified in the New York newspapers the same way they destroyed Isiah Thomas. However, it seems as if the Phoenix press is more intent on staying friendly with the owner as opposed to criticizing his idiotic money saving fiascos.
Steve Kerr definitely deserves a lot of heat for his decisions, but losing a large number of number one draft choices the past several years was the real source of the current situation in Phoenix.
Kerr deserves a lot of heat because he lost a coach and tried to change a style and then when it did not work he had to go back to what worked and he had already traded people and Suns were already behind in the west. I think if they play a fast pace style they are probably close to 5th or 6th place right now. They are a mixed group of young and old guys which is not bad. Amare is not too old and will go back to playing center with Robin Lopez as his bk up. They need a legit back up for Nash though because I dont see that Euro guy doing it. Barbosa needs a role or to get traded. Tucker needs more minutes or to be moves as well. Maybe he is going to get the back up 3 minutes behind Hill. Dudley could get some time too. You have Frye at the 4 and Clark can back him up for now but when Hill leave Clark may play small forward. Suns look pretty good to me right now. Frye should play well with minutes and in a fast pace. He put up solid numbers in Portland when he got minutes. He also played well for New York. People forget how skilled he is because he has not been playing much. I really don't see where Jason Richardson fits with this team but I guess we will see now that they are playing more uptempo.
IMO I dont know what the HEELLL THE is goin on with them. J - RICH IS A GOOD TRADE BAIT PIECE. But for a team like Toronto, Chicago, Cleveland, Indy, N.O., and Utah he could get back some nice pieces for the future. Think if the suns got Kirk Hinrich, or West / Gibson, Mike Dunley Jr. (LOL) or Troy Murphy, Ty Chandler or Boozer, how their team could change. I dont Like their make up, they have str8 trading tools for real contenders. Nash has good value to. A wealth of play off exp. I feel bad for this team. They could be as high as 7 - 8th Spot or Lottery bound.
Some of those trades Phoenix made earlier made sense with Mike D being there because I will have to look back but they may have gotten back some quality picks and also at the time they could not afford it. They could not afford Joe Johnson or so they thought. Sometimes it is more than money. Some player could have personalities that are hard to deal with and they get moved. I don't see Joe Johnson as being one of those but you never know. Losing him was big because he could play some point guard. Marion had to be traded because of a lot of those and getting Shaq did now seem so bad after the year he had but I don't think he meshed with their style to well. They would have never been able to keep Deng and they knew it and they had a championship caliber team but in hindsight who knew everything would go crazy when they changed Gm's. Suns would still have Mike D but I will say this will someone give Nash a legit back up option. You have some team that have like 2 solid back up options and Suns has none.
SUNS DIDNT TRADE JOE JOHNSON HE LEFT IN FREE AGENCY I THINK HE SIGNED A $80,000,000 DOLLAR CONTRACT OR MORE IM NOT SURE...THEY WERE FAVORITES TO WIN 1 YEAR BUT...HAD A STRANGE TURN OF EVENTS AFTER THE FIRST ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS,,LOUL DENG,AND....RUDY WOULD HAVE LEFT AT 1 POINT BECAUSE THERE WERNT THE NUMBER 1 OR THE NUMBER 2 OPTION OF THE TEAM..RUDY IS TALKING ABOUT GOING BACK OVERSEAS..ATLEAST TAHST WHAT I HEARD FROM RUMORS IN DENG WOULD HAVE LEFT THE SUNS WOULDNT HAVE GAVE HIMA SMUCH MONEY AS THE BULLS DID..SO WE ONLY MISSED NATE AND RONDO.....SO WHAT THEY WOULNDT HAVE HAD BIG PLAYING TIME WITH STEVE 2 TIME MVP NASH ON THE ROSTER ESSPICALLY IN THE PLAY OFFS....BUT I THINK THEY SIGNED THESE PLAYERS BACK BECAUSE THE LATE SEASON SUCCERS OF THE SUNS WHEN THEY STARTINF RUNNING THE UP TEMPO GAME AGAIN AND AMERE DOMINATED IF THEY CAN SIGN HIM BACK THEY COULD CONTEND WITH SOME MORE TALENT JUSS REVAMP THE TEAM WITH MORE YOUNG TALENT AND THE CORE OF BARBOSA,RICHARDSON,NASH,AMERE,AND HILL WILL DO GOOD....OR THEY CAN TRADE NASH FOR A YOUNGER PLAYER.....HOW ABOUT THE DALLAS MAVS NEW YOUNG POINT GAURD RODRIUGE BEAUBOIS AND SOME FUTURE FIRST ROUND PICKS...NASH A GET A CHANCE TO GET A RING......AND THE SUNS A GET A PLAYER WHO A HELP TEH SECOND HALF OF AMERES CAREER AND REVAMP THE SUNS WITH YOUNG TALENT...THE SUNS AND MAVS HAVE DONE GOOD BUSINESS BEFORE SO THE DOORS ARENT CLOSED ...ITS ALOT OF POSSIBLITYS THE SUNS HAVE PEOPLE TALK ALOT ABOUT THE SUNS AND FAIL TO RELIZE THEY MAY OF HAVE THE BEST SUCCES IN DRAFT HISTORY ALWAYS GETTING GOOD PLAYERS...THE TWO MOST PRIZED AMERE AND NASH
Everything is A 1 CLASSIFIED that you made. I like all of your points. I a lil up in the air about trading Nash to Dallas. Dallas would not do it unless they could move Kidd. Him/J.Kidd in the Backcourt is Worst on Defense then Him and Terry ( Who would have to be trade for them to get Nash.) They Struggle back when the Suns had Early 20's Nash, Early 20's Kidd and K.J.(Kevin Johnson who moved to the Off Guard) As the Main backcourt. To have 30+ Nash, 30+ Kidd and Jose Would Get Killed. Who would Nash / Kidd Guard Since they have similar Issues on Defense (Points to Quick for a whole Game / Two 's to Big). But the Suns would get back on the right path with this trade. A real future, plus the 2010 free agent groups, in addition to trade bait (Stat), and Cap Space.
KEVIN JOHNSON ALSO
KEVIN JOHNSON ALSO
The Suns are in a good spot right here. They might not make the playoffs but resigning Nash and Hill were smart moves. You have some cap space in buying out Wallace. The Suns also have Robin Lopez, Earl Clark and Channing Frye so your frontcourt depth is young and solid. If you move Stoudemire, you can add more players and maybe a 1st round pick
I didnt think about the front court. They could be as good as Portlands , Washington's or Utahs Front Court if they develop over the years. Frye is a slower version of Portlands Lamar Al, AK47 and Clark have similar skills sets. t
I can't say the following is 100% accurate because something tells me I'm missing one or more trades since Robert Sarver became the owner in 2004. I don't have the information on what Phoenix received, but most of the time I believe, but I'm not sure, it was for cash.
It looks as if Sarver's approved the trade of 6 number one draft choices since he became the owner. If my math is correct, he's been the owner 6 years and on AVERAGE, he traded away a #1 choice once per year. Most teams don't trade that many number one draft choices in two decades.
If you are reading carefully, you will see he gave up two #1 draft choices the first year of his ownership and then two more in 2006. Just imagine where Phoenix could be if they kept only half of those selections.
2004: Traded the 7th pick in the draft for a future draft choice
Traded the 16th pick in the draft to Utah?
2005: Traded the 21st choice in the draft to NY Knicks
2006: Traded the 21st choice in the draft, who was Rajon Rondo, to Boston
Traded the 27th choice in the draft, who was Sergio Rodriguez, to Portland.
2007: Traded draft rights to Rudy Fernandez to Portland
Note: I would have drafted DeJuan Blair instead of Earl Clark in the 2009 draft.
NASH CAN COME OFF THE BENCH AND GIVE MORE OFFENSE AND LEAD TEAM ALSO.... LOOK AT RASHEED WALLACE IF HES DOESNT START HES COMING OFF THE BENCH FOR GARNET AND PERKINS AT TIMES...AND IF KIDD GETS HURT OR IN FOUL TROUBLE ...DONT WORRY TEAM NASH IS THERE THIS WILL MAK THE MAVS UNMATCHED AT THE POINTGAURD SPOT AND HELP THE UP TEMPO WITH THE CHEMISTRY BETWEEN NASH AND MARION FROM BACK IN THE MIKE DANTONI DAYS WITH THE LOOK TO SCORE IN THE FIRST 8 SECOND OF THE 24 PHX SUNS
How do you think the Suns landed Boris Diaw. The Hawks also gave them two 1st round picks that became Rondo and the Lopez twin.
I say another blunder by the Suns.
YEA SOMTHING LIKE THAT I AINT FEEL LIKE GOOGLING ANYTHING...................BUT SIGN AND TRADE ..HE STILL LEFT THE TEAM THE SUNS JUSS GOT SOMTHING BACK FROM IT...COME ON DIAW FOR JOE DOESNT MAKE SENSE HE WAS GOING TO GO SUMWERE ELSE WETHER HAWKS,BOBCATS OR ANY OTHER TEAM..THATS LIKE BOOZER HES LEAVING NEXT YEAR SO THE JAZZ ARE TRYING TO GET SOMTHING OUT OF HIM NOW
do the warriors have the suns pick? from what?
Earl Clark is a perfect fit for Phoenix. Why would they draft Blair? He doesn't fit their style of play at all.
You all forget the the Suns are in pretty bad economic state right now. If they were to completely blow up the team they would lose way too much money on ticket sales. Half the people go because they want to see Nash play. So they won't blow up the team, they'll try to stay in the playoffs and generate more sales. They're also not going to be able to bring any FA's in cuz that'll completely screw them. The economy is a big part of Basketball right now and this is a huge example.
you have all made some pretty strong arguments, at least Phoenix isnt is as bad of an economic down fall as the Hornets, damnnn. They dont even have the money to sign their draft picks, which by the way looked decent in Vegas. Hopefully a little more money will be freed up in New Orleans next year, I dont believe they should relocate though like some people are saying. Great city i think NO is.
I'm not quite sure why you think he's a perfect fit for Phoenix. He is a guy that brings tremendous praise and strong cautions from people who follow college basketball very closely. In other words, nobody knows what kind of NBA player he will be. Some people think he'll be a star while others think he's inconsistent and possibly someone who lacks the motivation to become a standout player.
I personally don't know where Earl Clark fits in but if you draft D. Blair, you know exactly what you're going to get. Phoenix will have a guy who is probably the next version of a walking double double. He may turn into a dominant rebounder, but at least you know he's a guy dedicated to the game and he'll be very consistent.
If I'm making the decision, I'm going with the guy whom I know is definitely going to be a true professional.
Okay, your not getting my point. Clark is a great fit for their up-tembo offense and his versatility allows him to cover 3 positions and play 3 or 4 while Blair would be a very bad fit for the Suns because of their fast style of play. I totally agree that Clark is a mystery and Blair is more of a sure thing. It's just who fits the teams style better.
yupyup, that was a terrific answer. If you would have explained it that way the first time around, I wouldn't have asked the question. More importantly, using that criteria, I completely agree.
You should also keep in mind that I have a personal bias in favor of great rebounders.
Yeah my bad I worded it wrong the first time. I wish my 2nd favorite team,Chicago, had picked up Blair instead of Gibson.
they confuse me,
ok they gave up shaq.
but why give up yure best player (amare)
and try to keep a 35-36 year old nash?
if they wanna rebuild right they need to keep amare and get rid of nash!
yu could send nash somwhere else and get younger pieces.
I agree, their front office is confusing me a lot.
yupyup, I just wanted to clarify that I completely agreed with your argument and the logic behind it. I thought that was very well done but I still would have selected D. Blair.
Did you and MallStax5 read my posts in this thread on Robert Sarver and what he's done with their draft choices since he's been the owner? That's where Phoenix got into trouble big time.
Ahhh I see, I really hate that man. I LOVED the original run n gun Suns. Nash, Joe Johnson, Q-Rich, Marion and Amare. I just loved to watch that team play, shame it only lasted a year.
You're 100% right about Robert Sarver. Somebody gave you a negative for your Suns Draft History Under Robert Sarver post, but it was on point. I gave you a plus though.
Tezo83, thanks for the kind comments.
Now for both of you, I have another point that I didn't make earlier because there is no evidence. Since Robert Sarver is the kind of guy who traded six number one draft choices in 6 years, more than most teams trade in 2 decades, I suspect he also meddles big time in the front office operation.
In other words, an owner should take care of what he does best, such as ensuring the team makes money and the arena is functioning properly, while only the GM and the Head Coach should be concerned about building a team. I suspect Sarver is one of those guys who keeps interfering and changing his mind, and that might explain the confusion in the front office others talked about earlier in this thread. What do you think?
than yu give nash a two yr extension!
this might sound dumb but its off the head...
Trade nash to a team like ny....
i think ny would be desperate cuz they wont be Bron
and they might be dumb to include wilson chandler,al harrington, and two other pieces in a pacckage for nash.
I think Sarver needs to fire himself. But you are right on, owners shouldn't meddle with the trading and signing of players.
I actually think them signing Nash to an extension is refreshing. They are rewarding the player that put them back on the map and letting him finish out his days as a Sun. I agree that it would have been nice to get some young talent back for Nash but they still have a chance at the playoffs this season.
DWAT got one! Finally!
the reason they resigned Steve Nash is because that dude puts fans in the seats... that's the same reason that david kahn drafted ricky rubio.... look guys, these people are trying to make a dollar, whether or not they win a championship is always 2nd (unless you're mark cuban).
the fact is, the suns are not going to win a title in the next two years, regardless of what they do, so they might as well keep their two most exciting players (steve nash + amare) and not lose every single fan they've gotten over the past 5-7 years.
I think this is one of those scenarios where both of you are right.
Steve Nash worked wonders with that franchise, so yes it is refreshing to see him end his career there [at least for now.]. And of course Nash puts people in the seats. Fans need a certain amount of continuity with the players on a team and if they lose Nash and Amare, they just might lose that connection.
and regardless of nash's history with the franchise, the guy is fun to watch... put him on any of the other teams and i think you'd see an increase in ticket sales. he makes everyone around him more fun to watch and some of his passes are ridiculous....
he also often makes the opposing PG look really good too...
Steve Nash and Defense, that has to be an oxymoron.
xbadgerhustler, all great points about Steve Nash and let me add one more. You always hear people say he isn't a great athlete. Excuse me, NBA point guards are some of the quickest people on the planet and Steve Nash drives around them as if they're standing still. One has to be a great athlete to do that to such lightning quick guys.
Of course as xbadgerhustler would point out, the opposing point guards also go right around Nash as if he were standing still. Actually when I think about it, that is exactly what he does on the defensive end of the court.
Clark is what the suns need.
more versatile plyers.
they have very few right now.
Blair can only play the 4
Clark can play the 3/4
steve nash is definitely a decent athlete... some of the PGs in the NBA right now are WORLD-CLASS athletes... and they make him look silly. if only they had that athleticism and nash's vision and coordination. oh wait, that's chris paul
IMO the suns are doomed: okay they can make the playoffs this year and maybe even get out of the first round but nothing more!
that alone wouldn´t ne so bad but if you look at what they had a few years ago it is bad:
-they were one of the best and most exciting teams
-they had a team that could compete for the title
but when they failed to win a title kerr tried something different. that in general isn´t a bad idea but he tried to turn around everything. they had a team that was designed perfectly to play a certain style of Ball and a coach who was perfect for this team and style!
then kerr tried to change the system because he thougt they couldn´t win with run and gun style. so the logical first step if you want to change a system you replace the coach who designed the old team and system.
next you have to give away players that don´t fit in your new system and get people who fit the new style of play! kerr did both of these things because he had to in order to change the system!
but when the team wasn´t winning after that he was doomed! and he is today! there is nothing he can do know!
when the new suns weren´t winning he paniced and tryed to get back to old style but unfortunatly by that time d'antoni was in NY and he had marion traded for shaq so run and gun didn´t work like in the first place!
now the suns are an average team with little hope to get better over the next years and that will make kerr lose his job sooner or later because things in PHX will get worse. nash will retire and they could even loose amare!
kerr just tries to save his job desperatly but it won´t work!