share

Could the Jazz possibly start over for just one season?

White Chocolate
White Chocolate's picture
Registered User
Joined: 07/16/2009
Posts: 741
Points: 1118
Offline
Could the Jazz possibly start over for just one season?

I know we have a pretty good team right now, but why don't the Jazz just tank this season let all of the young players play and see what they could get out of them. Just for one year, they have D-Will, Millsap, and Memo to build around. If the Jazz just tanked this season they could possibly have two top-5 picks unless the Knicks make the play-offs which they have a good chance at doing, but probably not this
year. The Jazz draft a SG(Brewer is not the Jazz's answer at SG) and a SF and if they turn out the Jazz starting line-up would be complete:

Pg Deron Williams
Sg Top 5 Pick
Sf Top 5 Pick
Pf Paul Millsap
C Mehmet Okur

Thoughts?


MagikKnick
MagikKnick's picture
Registered User
Joined: 07/07/2009
Posts: 3514
Points: 5915
Offline
Jerry Sloans time is running

Jerry Sloans time is running out, I dont see them doing that..

White Chocolate
White Chocolate's picture
Registered User
Joined: 07/16/2009
Posts: 741
Points: 1118
Offline
But, it's either win now or

But, it's either win now or nothing and they seem to be doing nothing and Sloan only has a year or two left so the Jazz better make some changes or else I see them rebuilding.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
Jazz

They have too mauch talent to get a top 5 pick. They would have to play so intentionally bad that everyone would know something was up. The Jazz are not contenders right now, but they have a lot of solid building pieces. They need to just compete while some of their bad contracts like Boozer, AK, and Korver ride out. I agree that Brewer is not the answer at the 2. Two stright years, kobe has just left him alone on the deffensive end and Brewer can't shoot.

Meditated States
Meditated States's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/29/2009
Posts: 2821
Points: 581
Offline
I agree llperez22

They need a shooting guard who gets 20 plus a game next to D williams. Brewer is a guy you come off the bench with not a starter. They get Kobe O at full throttle cause like perez said he does not play D against them. You got to make Killer KB work on D.

doubledribbler
Registered User
Joined: 03/02/2009
Posts: 1217
Points: 1362
Offline
They have a weird team

Utah has a odd combination of players. Williams is great, but Brewer can't shoot and Miles is kind of small for the 3. Their best outside shooter is their center, which is fine, because of the mismatches it creates. Their best shot blocker is Kirilenko, but he's often having to play out on the perimeter instead of getting to protect the basket. I love Sloan as a coach, but I think it is time for him to step down. I think he has some guys that would really flourish if given a lot more freedom, particularly Williams and Kirilenko.

...If Sloan did step down, I wouldn't mind for him to come back to Chicago and teach some of those guys how to play.

STEVEDOT2
Registered User
Joined: 06/03/2009
Posts: 422
Points: -169
Offline
jazz wont be play off

jazz wont be play off players without and upgrade at the sg postion korver would fit the system great off the bench thats why when they got him for a nobody i was glad because now the ungaurdable deron williams can spread the floor double team him a pure shooter in kyle korver and a shooting big in okur can really hurt you also ronnie comes of the bench well
but we got a lotto pick this year from new york there not making the play off and were not winning the championship
i also thing they need to rebuild to compete with the up n comings teams come on jazz think future now if we ttank the season and add the injurys we have last year we should have 2 middle n late lottery picks improving our chances to move up n the lottery going off this site n highlights if thi payers live up to expactation or exceed it we should gave favors a huge look ak-47 wont be around 4ever we need a player to replace what he gives the jazz that other shooting gaurd proves to the best go after with the second pick {im hoping its henry he juss so strong ala ron artest ,lebron,} two young players the jazz can build on and compete with now with and already play off cal team in place

sheltwon3
sheltwon3's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/30/2009
Posts: 6364
Points: 2607
Offline
They need to trade Kirelenko

They need to trade Kirelenko because he does not see to fit what they are doing They could get a more traditional small forward for him.

Knicksboy34
Knicksboy34's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/07/2009
Posts: 2876
Points: -98
Offline
AK47 IS making big money..he

AK47 IS making big money..he anit going nowhere

doubledribbler
Registered User
Joined: 03/02/2009
Posts: 1217
Points: 1362
Offline
AK47

I think Kirelenko is definitely tradeable. There is no such thing as an untradeable contract, especially when the guy is younger and can be productive. The problem with him is that he is not a small forward. I also think he would be much better in a run and gun type offense.

The thing that has probably hurt Utah the most over the past few years have been injuries. Every year it seems like someone is hurt for stretches or coming off of an injury. I was kind of surprised that Ronnie Price stopped getting playing time, because he was actually playing well while Williams was hurt. Koufus didn't play badly either in limited time. They are really needing at least one more shooter and a shot blocker in my opinion. They have always been too soft up the middle with Boozer and Okur and haven't always gotten enough from Brewer and AK47.

STEVEDOT2
Registered User
Joined: 06/03/2009
Posts: 422
Points: -169
Offline
AK 47 FITS THERE SYSTEM HES

AK 47 FITS THERE SYSTEM HES A SMALL FORWARD.....THATS LIKE SAYING LOUL DENG ISNT A SMALL FORWARD
HE ANCHORS THERE DEFENSE HE GETS BLOCKS AND REBOUNDS HES LONG HE ALTER SHOTS HE CAN PLAY THE PICK ROLL AND MAKE IT BACK FIRE ON OTHER TEAMS HES TRADEABLE ANY CONTENDING TEAM A TAKE HIM BUT I BEEN SYAING THIS WAY B4 I KNEW THEY HAD NEW YORKS PICK THEY SHOULD REBUILD

ESSPICALLY SINCE THEY WILL BE LOSING BOOZER THIS YEAR OR NEXT

WE SHOULD GET YOUNGER NOW OR NEVER DERON WONT BE YOUNG 4EVER WE ALREADY GOT THE CENTER PEICE NOW WE CAN REBUILD IN 3 OR 4 YEARS AND BE RITE BACK ON TRACK LIKE AT THE SONICS/THUNDER LOOK AT THE BLAZERS LOOK AT THE CLIPPERS THEY REBUILT ON THE LOW JAZZ ARE BETTER THEN THEM ALREADY...... BUT REBUILDING IN ADDING YOUNGER TALENT THAT WILL GET BETTER WILL MAKE US BETTER

COME ON WERE NOT GOING TO THE SHIP ANYTIME SOON REBUILD NOW

KEEP SOME PEICES

RONNIE,KUFOUS,DERON,MILSAP,MORRIS ALMOND.... I THINK ROONIE PRICE HES ALRIGHT

BUT THATS 5 RITE THERE WE CAN PLAY

KEEP OKUR FOR A WHILE TO HELP MOLDKUFOUS
WE CAN DO THIS AND BRING IN SOME ROOKIES WITH HIGH CEILINGS FOR THE NEXT 3 OR 4 YEARS

doubledribbler
Registered User
Joined: 03/02/2009
Posts: 1217
Points: 1362
Offline
Utah

The one problem with Utah trying to rebuild is that they are not a "premier" basketball destination. The one thing they have going for them is that they compete every year and that they always have a good team. The guys that they end up with are usually guys that they draft or trade for. They could always add good role players, but no superstars or all stars. Keep in mind that they drafted Stockton and Malone. I remember the last time that they had loads of money the only person they could get to sign was Corey Maggette and then the Clippers matched the offer. They had to overpay him quite a bit and it's not like he's this dominate "got to get" type of player.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
jason terry

also signed with the jazz only to have atl match the offer. They got boozer okur in free agency, I agree not many players want to comme to utah! but the jazz have a great organization, only one lossing season in 20 plus years.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Ronnie Brewer

Why can't Ronnie Brewer be our shooting guard? He has point guard skills, plays great defense and is really efficient. He is a freak athlete with great size, quickness, ups and strength for a shooting guard. On top of everything he works really hard and improves every single year. You people talk like his shooting hasn't been getting better, and I'm glad Kobe wouldn't guard him on the perimeter because that is really going to motivate him to become a very good shooter next season.

Shooting is his only weakness. It would be RETARDED to give up on him already.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
budidon't have money

Brewer is solid as a 6th man. He can defend and is very efficient. But there is no reason to belive he will improve as a shooter. He has horrendous shooting mechanics and has shown no improvement in that area since he entered the league. If you want to win a championship, that is a weakness that is hard to overcome from your shooting gaurd spot, regardless of how well he does other things.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
give up

you call yourself a jazz fan you ought to be ashamed of yourself. brewer is a good player. I think a upgrade is neccassary for the jazz to get better though. brewer good be a 6th man of the year type player comming off the bench.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
?

He has improved his shooting every single season since he has been in the league.

I guess the makes Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, Demar DeRozen and Terrence Williams all non-start worthy too.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
yes

he is improving every year but i think the jazz need a scoring 2 gaurd also. Brewer is one of the best defenders in the league.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
?

I said his perimeter shooting has'nt improved. And you are fooling yourself if you think it has. Brewer might as well have been in a gym by himself against the Lakers the last 2 postseason's the way Kobe was gaurding him, and he could'nt hit. Everytime he shot, it felt like a turnover. And what on earth do the rookies who have'nt even played one game have to do with anything?

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Yes

Brewer's perimeter shot has improved every year. He just struggled in the playoffs.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Brewer's 3pt%

06-07: 0-9 .000%

07-08: 11-50 .220%

08-09: 22-85 .259%

That is an improvement. But the numbers don't tell the whole story, he has become much more confidant in his mid-long range shooting ability. Sloan says he is a very good shooter in practice. There is no reason to think Brewer can never be a good shooter in the NBA.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
yes

he even made a few three's. If korver can be a lights out 3 point specialist and brewer focus on slashing and defense, no need for an upgrade. but both of them have tendecies of vanishing in important games.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
percentage can be misleading

Don't just look at his percentages during the regular season. Watch him shoot. He has terrible form and looks hesistant. Kobe knew what he was doing when he left him alone. Brewer will never be a good shooter, and if the Jazz want to win a title, having a sg who is the worst shooter in the starting lineup is gonna be real tough to overcome.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
for a starting sg

who plays 30+ minutes to only hit 22 3's on the season and 26%, that is terrible. Especially since people don't gaurd him that tough and DWill needs a backcourt mate who can take the pressure off him.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
brewer

has never been a shooter defense and hustle is what makes him good. i agree brewer looks hesitant playing against kobe the last 2 playoffs.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
don't get me wrong

Brewer plays great defense and does a lot of good things, hence I said he could be a 6th man. But as long as he is a starter, the Jazz will have an uphill climb. There is a pretty big difference between winning 50 games, and winning a title. It's hard to have starters with glaring weaknesses. If the Jazz could just somehow combine Brewer and Korver into one player.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Tsk Tsk

He has still been improving every season. But if you are so committed to writing him off like this than there is zero point in arguing with you.

Let's start Eddie House over Rajon Rondo. Rondo is good but if he is a starter Boston can NEVER win a championship... Oh wait...

Derrick Rose for 6th man of the year? Anyone?

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
llperez

I agree getting an upgrade at the 2 and bringing brewer of the bench would be very good. i was kind of hoping for some kind of a boozer for ben gordon trade.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
hmm

So you are saying Brewer is a pg who get's triple doubles? No he's not, he's an average sg who can't shoot. Don't try and make silly comparisons. And yes, Rondo's lack of shooting hurts his team as well. Kobe gaurded Rondo in the two games last season, and he did the same thing by playing off him and the Lakers swept them. Rondo won a title because he does many other things at an all-nba level and played with 3 hall of famers. If Utah adds 2 more hall of famers to the roster, then sure, they might win a title with Brewer at sg.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Ben Gordon

He can't play defense. I would take Korver over Gordon any day. Utah's problem isn't that they can't score points, it's our lack of post defense. I love Okur and Millsap but they aren't exactly scaring teams away the paint. Koufos showed potential but we don't have to worry about points.

I may very well be the lone wolf on this.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
korver over gordon

are you serious! korver can't even average double figures, and korver defense is by far the worst on the team. I would take gordon over brewer and korver.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
gordon

true he can't play defense. but anyone who honestly thinks they would take Korver over Ben Gordon is'nt very smart. I can pretty much gaurantee that if you asked 30 GM's who they would prefer between Korver and Ben, it would be a 30-0 landslide for Ben.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Korver

He works really hard on defense. He is a capable defender. He just get worked over by quicker players. Ben Gordon is a lazy defender. Ben Gordon could possibly hurt the offensive flow of the Jazz because he doesn't look to pass often and isn't very efficient. Remember Korver was playing with an injury most of last season.

I wasn't comparing Brewer to Rondo and Rose, I was comparing their shooting skills. If you are saying Brewer can never improve his jump shot than your logic is that no player can ever improve his shooting skills. Am I right?

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Gordon

If you build a team around points, and only points (Gordon). Then you will end up with a very mediorce team. Phoenix and Golden State anyone? Having role-players who understand their role are important to the development of a team and there is such a thing as having too many players who want to dominate the ball.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
yes

brewer is an excellent role player. also one of my favorite jazz players, I think brewers role on the jazz is to come of the bench with his hustle, D, and slashing abilities.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
not what iwas saying

When I watch guys shoot, I look at their form. If a guy has solid form and shoots with confidence, then of course he can improve. Brewer might improve, but with his form and lack of confidence, he will never be even an average shooter. Because of his his broken bone in his right upper arm, he has to keep his shooting elbow way out wide and shoot a line drive from the chest. It is ugly, and I don't see anyway he becomes a good shooter. The other guys you mentioned have solid form that just needs some minor tweaking and practice.

I understand there is more to basketball then just shooting, but it's not like Brewer is some great ball handler who get's into the lane a twill or gets 8 assists a game or takes guy down on the low post and schools them. He is a sg who does very little on offense other then cut to the basket and finsh off of passes. Shooting is a weakness for him that will hold the team back. Why do you think Trevor Ariza went from riding the pine to starting on a title team, because he improved drastically as a shooter. That took a lot of pressure off the other lakers.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
j1232e

I guess this is just where you and I differ as Jazz fans. I think that Brewer's minutes is positively relative to Utah's wins.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Brewer's Form

He is still improving every season. True he doesn't have ideal form but there is more to shooting than form.

John Stockton came into the league as a terrible shooter with an ugly form but managed to become one of the best shooters in the NBA even while shooting from his shoulder. Kevin Martin has an awkward form but is one of the best shooters in the NBA. Pistol Pete had a weird form but was a great shooter.

j1232e
Registered User
Joined: 05/26/2009
Posts: 1501
Points: 1144
Offline
brewer

I said I am a big fan of brewer, his defence is great. Maybe the fact that korver has struggled puts allot of pressure on brewer because he is the starting 2 gaurd. If korver regains his shoot and brewer continues his defense we would not be talking about this right now

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Brewer

I think Jazz fans loved Brewer until the playoffs. Because of that people want to replace him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TdbTNdU5MU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutu...

Kyle Korver was hurt most of last year. I hope he regains his touch next season.

llperez
llperez's picture
Registered User
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 11953
Points: 11916
Offline
form

Not trying to sound like I'm talking down, but I've played ball my whole life and am a very good shooter. The biggest thing when it come to form is having your shooting elbow straight up and down and under the basketball. Stockton and Martin and every good shooter has their elbow under the ball. Brewer's elbow is out wide and never lines up straight at any point during the shot. I can't think of one good shooter that ever shot that way. Most guys who have their elbow out wide at least bring it in at the last moment before the follow through. Brewer never does. People have held this against him since he was in colege, and he has never been able to correct it because of his broken bone in his arm. I can't imagine trying to become a consistent shooter without keeping your elbow straight. Either way, I guess we can end it by saying we disagree.

butidonthavemoney
butidonthavemoney's picture
Registered User
Joined: 02/26/2009
Posts: 6171
Points: 9825
Offline
Yeah

This is one of those wait-and-see arguements. I hope he can manage to improve but he clearly has an uphill battle.

STEVEDOT2
Registered User
Joined: 06/03/2009
Posts: 422
Points: -169
Offline
when the jazz got korver i

when the jazz got korver i knew they would be better...i use to play live in get q rich on the jazz n make him a shooting gaurd a knock down point shooter keilinko had alot touches to so did boozer and deron was deron. but wtaching the jazz in real life and from seeing what works via simulation and juss reglur basketball iq and explosive shootind gaurd will do sumbody who gets put back dunks who runs the floor and athlete who can shoot..someone with a good sense of basketball in has alot of untapped game. and can play multiple............rudy gay type of player.......but utah wouldnt get him but they can get that type of shooting gaurd this draft or depending on what type of season favors have because i have him high on there list also but they wouill have a young core so why not rebuild all the way thru look at the clippers rebuilt in 1 season keep certain players and to for doing of breaking up a terrible clippers team the basketball "gods"
rewarded them with black griffin...i wish they upgrade at the sg postion....and brewer looks like he can have trevor ariza type role he can small foward and sg tho somthing ariza might not be able to effectivly so i woulndt give up on him but the jazz needs to draft better cj miles??? kirk snyder??

RSS: Syndicate content