End of a Dynasty
This post is a bit of a response to surve's narrative the other day. This is by no means a bash, he's one of my favorite poster and obviously a guy who knows his stuff. I just feel he was telling only part of the story of the Chicago Bulls without Michael Jordan. He cited, only the first 3 peat team, because, well, the end of the 2nd dynasty very much parallelled Lebron's departure from Cleveland.
I'd first like to highlight the immense success of the 2nd championship team by listing their records. Then followed by the season directly after Jordan's 2nd retirement.
95-96 - 72-10 - 88%
96-97 - 69-13 - 84%
97-98 - 62-20 - 76%
The aftermath in a tanking era, unlike the culture of the 93-94 season.
98-99 - 13-37 - 26 %
Why was this not brought up when discussing the impact of Jordan on his team? Why? because it's the same thing that happened in Cleveland, even down to a coaching change. Jordan and the 2nd dynasty Bulls were chalked full of veterans and when Jordan retired, the team exploded. Only 5 members of the 98-99 remained to hold down the fort as Chicago tanked to get Elton Brand. Only 9 members (2 of their key players missing over 40 games to injury) of the 09-10 Cavs team remained to guide Cleveland the Kyrie Irving lottery.
And what of Jordan holding back other's of their true potential?
Didn't really happen that way.
Scottie Pippen -97-98 - 19.1 ppg 5.2 rpg 5.8 apg
Scottie Pippen - 98-99- 14.5 ppg 6.5 rpg 5.9 apg with the Houston Rockets
Dennis Rodman - 97-98- 4.7 ppg 15 rpg 2.9 apg
Dennis Rodman - 98-99 - 2.1 ppg 11.1 rpg 1.3 apg with the L.A. Lakers
Luc Longley - 97-98 - 11.4 ppg 5.9 rpg 1.1 bpg
Luc Longley 98-99 - 8.7 ppg 5.7 rpg .5 bpg with the Pheonix Suns
Steve Kerr - 97-98 - 7.5 ppg 1.9 apg 44% 3 pt
Steve Kerr - 98-99 - 4.4 ppg 1.1 apg 31% 3 pt with the Spurs
Toni Kukoc - 97-98 - 13.3 ppg 4.4 rpg 4.2 apg
Toni Kukoc - 98-99 - 18.8 ppg 7rpg 5.3 apg with a 26% winning team, career lows in FG% and 3pt %
The trend continues, even those, like Kukoc who stuck it out with the worst team in the league saw immense drops in efficiency. Ron Harper is another who stuck around and shot 37% from the feild. Bill Wennington did as well and shot 38% from the feild.
Many of the key players in the 2nd dynasty had no real place in the leauge outside of the Chicago Bulls dynasty built around Michael Jordan. That was evident as many of them drifted into retirement or became end of the bench players for worse teams.
You want to look at parallels between Jordan and Lebron leaving a team. Look no further than the 2nd three peat. The circumstances are nearly identical. Sure, the Cavs didn't lose Williams and Varejau to roster changes like the Bulls lost Pippen and Rodman, but Varejau missed nearly the entire season due to injuries and a deflated Williams was traded mid season. It was in the era where teams tanked to get draft picks and even down to a coaching change that is where the parallels lie. The 93-94 Bulls were an exception to a great player leaving a team. Not the rule. Look no further than the 98-99 Bulls.
good points but LMFAOO at that last paragraph near comparison of MJ PIPPEN and RODMAN leaving to LEBRON leaving and a depressed williams and hurt varejao .. if you wanted to help your point more you should've just left the last paragraph out.
Also, that holding back their true potential thing point is kind of moot as well since it was pointed out in the other forum that they had better years after MJ retired the first time...a lot can be said of a 5 year difference..ofcourse you're going to drop off due to age and wear and tear on the body
Just drawing comparisons of many key players on both teams not playing the next season. Not saying they were the same caliber of players. Only 5 Bulls stuck around for the ride to the #1 pick, 9 did the same for the Cavs, but one left town mid season and one got hurt so it was more like 7.
Fantastic post Joe. I'm smarter for having read it. Thanks for doing the research.
I'm a little confused. Are you arguing that Jordan was more important to his team than Lebron was? Or are you saying that their departures were similar pertaining to teammates's efficiencies?
Surve was quick to point out the time Jordan left a team and they did well, but failed to mention the time he left a team and they became the worst team in the league. The circumstances around Jordan's 2nd retirement were remarkably similar to the scenario the Cavs were in two years ago. I wanted to shed light on that part of his career, his former teammates' drops in productivity and effeciency after 1998 and that Cleveland blew up their team to get a high draft pick, like the Bulls in 99, but a stark contrast to the Bulls of 94.
I would love to hear a dissenting opinion...