Kyle Singler revisited
During the season I had a post that detailed my opinion that Kyle Singler would definitely be a first round pick come June. I received some good solid feedback and had some friendly conversations with several other forum users.
After watching Kyle Singler lead Duke to the Championship I want to reiterate some of my points about his draft stock. Kyle Singler was the best player in the NCAA championship game, and for most viewers including myself I'm sure it was obvious that Singler's motor, skill-set, determaination, and flat out effort on every play are what seperates him from other draft prospects, including Gordon Hayward his main Butler opponent. There are many players more athletic than Singler, many with better lateral quickness, and many that have better "upside". But, there aren't many players that are better than Kyle Singler. Singler has great range, a nose for the ball, a motor that doesn't quit, and a "feel for the game" that sets him apart from other SF prospects. IT is my guess that If Singler does indeed declarefor the draft, he will end up closer to the lottery, if not picked in the lottery, than most people expect. I'm guessing that NBA decision makers would much rather have a polished maximum effort player that can contribute and play NBA defense than an "upside" guy that needs two or three years of pine time before being able to contribute.
I like Singler as a first round pick, but not in the lottery... Definitely not in the lottery. Any GM that picks him in the lottery deserves to be fired.
I think his championship performance let NBA scouts know that he's a legit small forward. He's an early 20's to early second round pick.
at most he's luke walton to me
I don't like the Luke Walton comparison at all. Walton led his team in assits in college and was a completely different player, sure he scored, but he was much more well rounded in regards to rebounding and defense than Singler without having the shooting touch. I think he is somewhere between Kyle Korver and Steve Smith.
I think of Singler as the type of guy who can be a very good player with the right team. He knows how to play team ball because he went to Duke, Coach K teaches you that. To me I can see him be like Shane Battier in the NBA but as an offensive player rather than a defensive player.
So, he is like Battier...without the defense? That makes no sense...lol...
kyle singler is a very good player. is he a superstar no. he will never be the main guy on a team. is he a star. prolly not. i dont see him averaging 20 a game. he might get close in his prime. but he is a role player you want on the team. low maintenance high motor. he is going to hustle and work hard during his nba career. he is one of the best role players available. the question is when do stop trying to draft potential nba superstars and start drafting guaranteed great role players. i think after the lottery prolly. there is only so many stars in the league. at some point in the draft you need to start basing players on role playing potential instead of superstar potential. kyle singler should go between 13-20
Good points. I agree with picks 13-20. I think he is definitely a better ball handler and playmaker than he was able to show in Duke's offense over three years. Better rebounder and defender than Gordon Hayward and just plays harder.
I couldn't have said it any better.
I think there will probably be seven small forwards who go before him. Aminu, Ebanks, Robinson, Vesely, George, and Hobson are better prospects. Damion James, Gordon Hayward, Pondexter, and are also guys who could go ahead of him. Singler is not a great knock down shooter or that good off the dribble. He is at his best when he either got on the offensive glass, made that flex cut to the block, or just straight posted up. Good luck with that in the NBA when he does not have the size advantage he did in college. For him to be a meaningful NBA player, he really needs to become a better shooter. Luke Walton is not a bad comparison, but not everyone gets to catch on with Kobe.
You make some arguably valid points. We just have a different opinion, but that's okay. I just happen to think that Singler is better than Ebanks, George, Hobson, Hayward, Pondexter, and Damion James. But being a better player definitely doesn't always translate to being drafted highter. Actually, Singler is better than Aminu also. I think Singler had 21 pts and 15 rebounds when they played head to head, but Aminu is obviously the much superior athlete.
Ebanks seems to be tough one to grade. Some people are really high on his "upside", while others like me have not seem him do anything warranting a first round pick and wonder what all the hype is about. Ebanks has length and is great at defense, but he doesn't do much at all on offense and does not play hard on every possession. If I were Ebanks I would stay another year and show scouts that I had an offensive repetoire.
I guess we'll see in the draft.
Ebanks is a better prospect because he will get on the floor. He will guard people on the next level. If a wing does not have 20+ PPG potential, the best way to get on an NBA floor is to guard someone. Also, he is not deficient offensively. Ebanks handles the ball very well for someone his size, he attacks the basket well, and his mid-range shot is pretty good. The guy played his role at WVU. He has the potential to grow into the best small forward in this draft, but the fact that teams know that they will at least have a guy who can get on the floor and play a role from the start. It is a great gamble. He and Vesely really represent the best bets because of their length, athleticism, and abilities on the defensive end.
Kyle Singler is a tough call because he's an excellent college player who had an outstanding Final Four. In my opinion, he belongs at the very end of the first round. If he makes it in the NBA, he will probably be a role player who rarely gets off the bench. However, if he's lucky, he'll go to a team where his style fits in and he may have a more important role.
Here are some things to consider:
* If you check the history of the Final Four for the last 25 years, you will see lots of guys who were drafted higher than they should have because of that performance. Playing well in the tournament is good for your draft position, but it doesn't mean very much in terms of your NBA potential.
* Please forget the Luke Walton comparisons. It's the usual white guy to white guy comparison, there are better ones. Luke Walton is a guy with only one strength, outstanding passing skills. Kyle Singler is a guy who drives often drives to the hoop, is strong on the offensive boards, and can actually make a difference on the offensive end if and when his 3 point shot is going in.
* Unfortunately for Singler at the next level, he simply doesn't have lateral quickness.
In the end, he's a very skilled player who might overcome his physical limitations. I would like to see that happen, but if it does, I would be surprised.
Except Luke Walton was also strong on the offensive boards in college, can drive to the hoop, and makes a difference in seasons where his 3 point shot goes in. If you remember the season that got Walton his current awful contract, he shot 39 percent from behind the arc.
Singler is a late 1st rounder to early 2nd rounder. He's kind of unorthodox, so I can't think of an exact comparison, but I can tell you this. He's going to be a guy that spots up and shoots or comes off of curls/screens and shoots. He's not the ball-handler Mike Dunleavy Jr is, and he's not the passer nor is he the post up player Luke Walton is, so I an't say who exactly he reminds me of in the NBA right now. I think if you need a shooter for your 2nd team, Singler is a good guy to pick up.
I have always said this though, him and Gordon Hayward are nearly identical players especially right now, except for Hayward being quicker. I think if you like Hayward as a prospect, you like Singler too. Singler played better defense than Hayward in the games I've watched this season in comparison, but Hayward does have slightly more potential on this end (although he's not likely to be a good defender in the NBA either). Hayward is a better shot-creator for the most part too.
BothTeamsPlayedHard, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this comparison.
Kyle Singler is and has been an offensive force for Duke. If he doesn't score, they have a very hard time winning. He averaged around 17 ppg this year and was the focal point of their offense.
When Luke Walton was at Arizona, he was a complimentary player who averaged approximately 10 pgg his senior year. Arizona never depended upon Walton to be the main focus of their offense in terms of scoring. His strength was playing Point Forward because of his outstanding passing skills.
Luke Walton was vastly overrated because he was white and he was Bill Walton's son. Many so called pundits were predicting he would be the National Player of the Year before his senior season. My brother and I were laughing so hard we could barely believe it. I cannot remember who was on his team, but if memory serves me correctly, I don't think he was even the best player at Arizona, let alone the entire country.
Although I believe Singler will be a role player in the NBA, I think he's a much more accomplished offensive player. And his style of play is different because he looks to score first while Walton plays a pass first style.
Luke Walton started over Andre Iguodala in college, so I don't like Walton anyway. LOL
Take the history lesson.
"Named to four All-America teams following his junior season, as well as the Pac-10 Tournament Most Outstanding Player, after averaging 15.7 points, 7.3 rebounds and 6.3 assists"
Walton's minutes went down his senior year because Arizona had some freshman named Andre with a funny sounding last name, so he went from playing 37 minutes per as a junior to 27 as a senior. His senior year, Arizona had Jason Gardner, Channing Frye, Salim Stoudamire, Rick Anderson, Hassan Adams, Andre Iguodala, Will Bynum, Dennis Lattimore, Isaiah Fox, and Walton.
I'm sure you and your brother were laughing in amazement that a guy who averaged 15-7-6 per at Arizona would have his name mentioned as a player of the year candidate. I'm sure you thought it all about his daddy.
BothTeamsPlayedHard, you're exactly right, my brother and I both believed he was a National Player of the Year candidate because of his father and we were LOL. And thanks for reminding me that he wasn't the best player on his team at Arizona his senior year. I'm still trying to figure out why a guy who wasn't the best player in his own school, could be a National Player of the Year candidate.
Nonetheless, my earlier point still holds up to scrutiny. Luke Walton was a complimentary player who's primary role was that of a Point Forward. His only outstanding skill was passing.
In sharp contrast, Kyle Singler is a scorer, who is and was the focal point of the offense. Other than the fact that they're both white forwards, I don't see the similarities in their game.
Actually your earlier point doesn't hold up because what you said was wrong. Walton was not a complementary player when he was being nominated for player of the year awards before his senior year. His role took a slight hit because Andre Iguodala was good enough to get on the floor too. If Duke had the next Andre Iguodala on their roster, Singler would have seen his minutes go down too.
By the way, Singler is a scorer who did so at a 40 percent clip in ACC play.
Kyle Singler = Jeff Green
I lifted this guys comments from another chat room. But I agree with them, and I thought I might as well share them with you guys.
Re: Kyle Singler
by DanDanE420 on Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:45 pm
He could go late lottery. I'd be shocked to see him last until the 20s.
There are very few players with complete skillsets, but he is one of them. His elite coordination (at a good 6'8) allows him to shoot, handle, pass and rebound at a solid level. He is also a very good CBB defender who will be a good pro defender.
His IQ is off the charts, he is fearless and his motor is non-stop. Because of his gas tank (elite), he can run for 35 minutes+ a game on both ends.
The only legit criticism I've heard on Singler is that for all his versatility, he needs to do one thing really well to get on the floor in the NBA. First, I believe his shot is catching up to his stroke and will be a weapon in the NBA. Secondly, his advanced mental game and complete skillset makes him a very easy to guy to fit into to a lineup.DanDanE420
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 9:14 pm
I don't understand... Who is Singler going to defend in the pro's?
Like I said before... Any GM that picks Singler in the lottery should be fired right on the spot.
Sour grapes "bro". Singler waxed your boy Hayward and your little University. Singler in the lottery, probably not. Singler better than Haywood? Definitely. Peace.
You're the one who sounds sour... I'm just speaking the truth. I think Singler's a good player, but he's not going in the lottery. Neither is Hayward. Chances are, Hayward probably won't even enter this season. If he does though, he'll be drafted higher than Singler.
Sinler def. a better prospect than Hayward. Similar players on offense, i like how Singler picked up his defense with those 3 blocks.