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Why Does nbadraft.net think that white players are smarter than black ones?

mdrame
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Why Does nbadraft.net think that white players are smarter than black ones?

I read nbadraft.net each year to check the mock draft. But one thing I have noticed year after year is the following:
- on white players' scouting report you'll ALWAYS find comments aluding to the player's intelligence: "he is smart", "has good instincts ", "has a good feel for the game", "has good court sense" "has great vision", "high basketball IQ"... But you RARELY find those comments black players' scouting report unless it is a top 5 pick; but you'll find those comment on practically every single white player. Now, if you don't believe me just go over this year's or any other years' mock draft and look at the scouting reports.
I'm mentionning this because I wanted to bring to their attention that a black player doesn't have to be a top draft pick to be smart.


IndianaBasketball
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Welcome to the site. This is

Welcome to the site.

This is a thread that rtbt would absolutely love to talk about.

llperez
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i think when a player doesnt

i think when a player doesnt blow you away with athleticism, which lets face it most white players dont, then their bball iq gets more credit then other guys even if they have the same bball iq.

knicksfan7
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llperez22, are you trying to

llperez22, are you trying to tell me that white people aren't athletic and that black people aren't smart MY GOD!!! lol jk. I mean it's like god forbid there is a white guy who is athletic or a black guy that's smart. I mean people criticized Shane Battier for being smart, and he has had a very successful career, ray allen is a pretty smart dude as well. David Lee is pretty athletic, to me skin color is irrelevant but people feel the need to make it relevant.

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trust me, i think there are

trust me, i think there are plenty of athletic white players. But overall, not on the same level as black players. As far as intelligence, they are the same, i just pointed out that its easier to recognize that iq when the athleticism doesnt stand out.

knicksfan7
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My post was sarcasm. I mean

My post was sarcasm. I mean yeah you have all the right points.

bobbyb
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iq

Black people "in general" are more athletic than whites. Anyone with eyes can see that.( Of course there are high iq blacks and athletic white players). So that means if a white player is to be sucessful in the nba, he has to have a high iq otherwise he wont make it. So of course every white player on the draft board is going to have a high basketball iq generally speaking.

Re David Lee , by NBA standards he is a sub par athlete, but he succeeds because of his work ethic.

NYK2010
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Good pt Bobby. Obviously

Good pt Bobby. Obviously black players are more athletic thats why they dominate the sport.
I do think that some white players are smarter when it comes to basketball IQ.
Add that to the fact only a select number of white players are draft worthy so they do standout.
Guys like John Stockton, Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Mark Price come to mind as white players with a very high basketball IQ, I'm not sure how many ppl would consider them great becaz of their athleticism.
Then again so many black players have a high basketball IQ like Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Pierce just to name a few.

GoodbyeChandler
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i think bill burr said it best

in any sport, when you read a defense or make the right pass, its a smart play, but when you jump from the freethrow line, either for a block or a dunk, not that many people can say "why didnt i think of that?"

itsOva
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basketball IQ is not the

basketball IQ is not the same as the actual IQ, even it is, there is no guarantee which race is smarter than the other. It all depends what kind of family that person grow up in, and what type of education he/she receives during the childhood. To use me as an example, I do decent in university, but when I play ball, I dont know what the &$#%#&@! is going on on the court, I have a 0 bball IQ. lol

Mkadoza
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If you think David Lee is a

If you think David Lee is a below average athlete for his position you either: A) Don't watch David Lee or B) Don't know what athleticism means. He's not overly strong, like a Boozer, but his quickness and powerful leaping ability allow him to play center. He snatches rebounds at the hieght of his jump, which is pretty damn high, he finishes dunks with power regularly, and his extremely quick and agile for a 6'9 245 bigman. Some white players may not be athletic, but Lee is NOT one of them.

Blazermann
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black power lol

chase budinger is athlectic out his a$s and so is joe alexander , the birdman so is jordan farmer and blake giffen white i dont care what anybody tell me lol

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David Lee sub par athlete?

David Lee sub par athlete? He and James White put on a show in the 2001 McDonalds All-American Dunk Contest, Lee pulled off a between the legs dunk off a bounce. He is a lot bigger and stronger now so his game is different now, but he is athletic, not LeBron athletic, but Mkadoza is spot on about the kind of athleticism he has and if he wasn't he wouldn't be a 20 and 12 player.

bobbyb
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David Lee

IF you compare David Lee to other centres , he is athletic. But if you had a "NBA combine" right now he would def be in the bottom half of the league.

bobbyb
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White players

Joe Alex, Budinger and Birdman are probably the ONLY white players for their athletic ability. Blake Griffin and Jordan Farmar are not White. If you want to get technical they are mulato

rtbt
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BobbyB Displaying A Lack of Knowledge

I'm sorry to say you are displaying a lack of knowledge about race and athleticism. Please do some reading/studying and come back another time with more intelligent comments.

Thanks,
rtbt

rtbt
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Sports and Racial Stereotypes

First, anyone who makes a generalization such as "blacks are better athletes than whites", is leaving themselves wide open to someone else using the same logic to come up with a different conclusion. For example, how would you feel if someone said "whites are obviously smarter than blacks because they dominate medical, law, science, and all other academic subjects"?

That's the danger of drawing conclusions about large groups of people.

For those people who made that generalization above, think about the great Olympic High Jumpers who leap almost 8 feet in the air, downhill skiing, ice hockey, speed skating, soccer, swimming, gymnastics, volley ball, high diving, etc.

Keep in mind that the two big sports in America are football and basketball, the latter being primarily an inner city one. Therefore, almost all young American athletes from urban areas go into basketball and/or football. So in America, it appears as if the overwhelming majority of great athletes are black. But go to different countries around the world where basketball and American football aren't that appealing and you will see a very different racial mix in a variety of sports that I listed above.

knicksfan7
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rtbt, I mean this with all

rtbt, I mean this with all seriousness. You should do research on this topic and write a book or a report on it, then people will read it and respect rather than over a message board.

sheltwon3
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rbt because of dense muscle

rbt because of dense muscle mass, that is pretty much the support behind blacks being better athlete also during slavery time the bigger and stronger black men were bred more to make stronger slaves. You combine those and many other aspects and it can be proven that black people on a average are more athletic than white people. Most white people believe this as well. Intelligence is a lil tricky because you can have the dumbest person it would seem and dude is a genius when it comes to cars or sport or anything. You have some people more well rounded. There are too many factors when tall pure intelligence that there is really no way to determine what race is more intelligent. Also you can go off of accomplishments but in all honestly you have more dumb people nowadays and shady people with average smarts having more success stories. If you know the right person and have average smarts you can look like you are very intelligent and still intelligent people can say and do some of the most idiotic things. Athletic ability is a little different and easier to determine

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I agree with everything that

I agree with everything that rtbt said. Most people just look at 2 sports and make a general assumption but when you take all sports and athletics into account the outcome is much different. Your cultural surroundings usually play a major role on which sport one decides to pursue.

rtbt
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Sheltwon on Race

Sheltwon, you made some interesting points, but for the most part, I disagree.

If someone can make a statement that blacks are better athletes than whites because they dominate basketball and football in America, another person can say whites are smarter than blacks because they dominate math, science, law, and medical schools in America. Any time you group everyone into a racial stereotype, even a positive one, you are opening the door for someone else to use the same logic to draw a negative conclusion.

Therefore, if you're allowed to make that kind of generalization in athletics, you can't say anything to someone who uses your form of logic to draw a similar conclusion based upon achievement in academics.

If you only watched the following sports on TV every day, Olympic High Jumping, speed skating, gymnastics, swimming, volley ball, hockey, high diving, downhill skiing, and that sport with the guy who looks like a woman with his long red hair, you would think all of the world's great athletes were white.

Every one of the sports I mentioned above is filled with phenomenal athletes. But in America, the two dominating TV sports are basketball and football which is what most of us watch every day. That impacts our perceptions and distorts our view of reality.

Slim
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.

"During slavery time the bigger and stronger black men were bred more to make stronger slaves"
that is stupid as hell

How do you explain the Afrikaans versus the African American that compete in basketball,

arent they athletic too, maybe they have denser muscle mass but don't say that forrced mating is the reason why certain people are more athletic than others

thats pure ignorance

sheltwon3
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percentage wise rtbt you

percentage wise rtbt you cant say that and also those fields have more to do with opportunity versus raw ability. There has been a equal opportunity from an athletic point with all the races but scholastic is more about money and opportunity also percentage wise you may be off because white people outnumber black people by a large amount so going off of number would not be wise because the number should be larger if you have that large of amount more people but if we go by percentage it may be closer than you think. rbt we will have to agree to disagree because you have not made any point but citing unfairness. Asks some intelligent people and they will tell you that it is hard to determine raw intelligence. There are a lot of really smart people that don't even do much because of lack of opportunity. because you dont know what a person mind is doing it is hard to say one person is smarter than the next. There are some smart people who dont do well in school but they are smarter than some so called college graduates. Grades are not really the best judge of how smart you are because everyone has different learning curves and also if you dont have the same opportunity someone else could have had a head start of you in a subject but you wind out being better but your grades don't reflect what you really can do. You watch a person long enough and you can tell if they are athletic. Very few people will be like this guy is not athletic and then one play they jump out the gym. Some people do get misjudged on where they stand because they are not trying to dunk all the time or be in highlights. This argument can go on and on. I will not waste my time on it anymore it is obviously there are stereotype that many people live by. Some things are true some are not. Life is not fair. Also you are talking to a black male who was in honor classes and i will tell you there were a lot more white people in the class but i knew a lot of black people smarter than me that would not take honors for whatever reasons. They did not become stupid they just quit trying or did not want that label.

sheltwon3
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percentage wise rtbt you

percentage wise rtbt you cant say that and also those fields have more to do with opportunity versus raw ability. There has been a equal opportunity from an athletic point with all the races but scholastic is more about money and opportunity also percentage wise you may be off because white people outnumber black people by a large amount so going off of number would not be wise because the number should be larger if you have that large of amount more people but if we go by percentage it may be closer than you think. rbt we will have to agree to disagree because you have not made any point but citing unfairness. Asks some intelligent people and they will tell you that it is hard to determine raw intelligence. There are a lot of really smart people that don't even do much because of lack of opportunity. because you dont know what a person mind is doing it is hard to say one person is smarter than the next. There are some smart people who dont do well in school but they are smarter than some so called college graduates. Grades are not really the best judge of how smart you are because everyone has different learning curves and also if you dont have the same opportunity someone else could have had a head start of you in a subject but you wind out being better but your grades don't reflect what you really can do. You watch a person long enough and you can tell if they are athletic. Very few people will be like this guy is not athletic and then one play they jump out the gym. Some people do get misjudged on where they stand because they are not trying to dunk all the time or be in highlights. This argument can go on and on. I will not waste my time on it anymore it is obviously there are stereotype that many people live by. Some things are true some are not. Life is not fair. Also you are talking to a black male who was in honor classes and i will tell you there were a lot more white people in the class but i knew a lot of black people smarter than me that would not take honors for whatever reasons. They did not become stupid they just quit trying or did not want that label.

sheltwon3
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The stereotype about

The stereotype about European player coming over here is another one that is more about opportunity. There system for athletes is better than the US so they produce basketball players with more experience. The guys over there that are athletic tend to do real well in the NBA once they get stronger because they know the game better than most US players. Does that mean they are better or that they have a better system in place. If Americans had a equal system, there would probably be less foreign players in the NBA. You would not have the say awe factor and only the players over there that have proven their level would get drafted and there would be few projects.

sheltwon3
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Dude that said something

Dude that said something about me being ignorant, How about this you read for a change. I take it you are a young guy who thinks they know more than they do if you read every thing i said, I said those may have played a big part among other factors. You are the one that is ignorant about this obviously because white scientist have studies this stuff. You think i am just making this up with no credibility. Do i have to do a bibliography on everything I say and asks you to do the same so we can have a legit debate and not some childish bickering.

rtbt
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Sheltwon, Having a Hard Time Following Your Logic

Sheltwon, I really had a hard time following your arguments above.

If someone said to me that whites are smarter than blacks because they dominate math, science, medical, and law schools, I would say to them, you're ignorant and don't know what you're talking about. I would use some of the arguments you used above and several others.

Now if someone says to me blacks are better athletes than whites because they overwhelmingly dominate American football and basketball, I would also disagree with that. And I've explained several times above why I feel that way.

There's a lot more to being a great athlete than simply your time in the 40 yard dash. Here are just a few examples of guys who are fantastic athletes. And I'm deliberately using examples of sports dominated by "white guys" to prove a point, that great athleticism, just like intelligence, is not limited to any one group of people.

* The white guys who won the Olympic High Jump by leaping close to an incredible 7 feet 9 inches off the ground

* The white guys who won the Olympics downhill event, flying down an icy mountain at 85 mph, cutting sharper than a knife while risking life and limb

* Olympic gymnasts who fly through the air, twisting, turning, and defying gravity, while making our jaws drop with their incredible displays of athleticism

*Olympic speed skaters gliding around the rink at mind boggling speeds

*Olympic swimmers, including Mark Spitz, and the young guy from Baltimore, Michael Phelps

* High Divers who do 3 1/2 twists, turns, and flips from an insane height.

I repeat, all of the above are examples of "world class" athleticism and they're almost all white guys. Why would you, or anyone else, think anything less of their athleticism just because it isn't in the two sports we watch every day in America, basketball and football?

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I have to remember some of

I have to remember some of yall are young, look I can care less about his subject because what does it matter. Things aint going change if people will never be honest about stuff or use rational thought process. If everything is about feeling being hurt and being politically correct than it is clear everything will always be the same. Also let me clarify my more athletic stance before someone argues against that because right now athleticism mean a whole different things like Armstrong is considered a great athlete and i dont know if he can jump high or run fast but he is a monster at what he can do. I should phrase it as run jump athletic or athletic as far a basketball because of the forum we are on.

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How about this rbt if you

How about this rbt if you dont believe me go research it.

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You guys are both arguing

You guys are both arguing with each other yet completely agreeing with each other.

sheltwon3
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rbt how many African

rbt how many African american do any of that stuff like i said equal playing field which in honesty is not a equal playing field because white people outnumber black people by a large amount in the US. The thing is if not for an athletic advantage the NBA could be mostly white people based on the fact of there are more white people which is you go off the assumption that white and black people are equally athletic than you would think a small percentage of white people that like basketball could almost double or triple what the NBA league consists of.

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Look to be honest with you

Look to be honest with you if it is ever determined that white people are smarter than black people, that is just something people will have to deal with and being more intelligent puts more scrutiny on you when you do something stupid. I am a smart dude but if someone smarter than me or claim they are does something that i would have the common sense not to do, I would definitely question how smart they really are. Also it takes more than intelligence to actually apply it correctly. I think opportunity is a big part in everything.

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you are right I need to cool

you are right I need to cool it guess this heat got me hostile. Take rbt and everyone on to the next subject.

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Exactly, you guys are both

Exactly, you guys are both essentially saying that opportunity is the biggest key and athleticism can be defined in many ways.

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Why?

It's the same reason why black players are compared to black players and white players are compared to white players.....bias and ignorance

MDOTFREE
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I think a lot of people here

I think a lot of people here are REALLY overstating their points. Individuals of African descent tend to have denser muscles which can contribute to better physical performance in some areas. however, IT IS NOT A LOCKED IN RULE. it's only an AVERAGE, not a norm. i'm a black man and i know several white and asian guys that are better athletes than i am. adam morrison is one of the most unathletic white boys i've seen in a long time. but then you have budinger, with a similar build, who can run and jump with the best of them.

and to the guy who brought up 50 million olympic examples...a couple of those don't work, man. swimmers, high-jumpers, gymnast, YES!! speed skaters and down hill dudes, WHO GIVES A SH#T?!?!

there's a difference between skill and athleticism.

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MDOTFREE, Are You Kidding?

First, great point about averages.

Second, are you trying to tell me that a guy who jumps 7 feet 9 inches off the ground isn't a great athlete? A great athlete in the NBA is usually described as a guy with a 38-40 inch vertical. Well that's nothing for Olympic high jumpers who leap approximately 90 inches off the ground! I understand they also go horizontally with their bodies, but it's still a phenomenal athletic achievement.

And are you telling me a gymnast who defies gravity by jumping off a mat and doing a variety of flips and twists before he lands isn't a great athlete? It sounds as if your only criteria for athleticism is speed? Excuse me but there's a lot more involved to athleticism than just speed.

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rtbt, if you want to argue

rtbt, if you want to argue that whites athletes in general are equal to black athletes in general, then fine. But my earlier comments before you or anyone else brought in the whole spectrum of all athletics, and was just talking about basketball, whites on anverage are clearly not at the same athletic level as blacks. That's not even a question that should be debated. SO not sure why you decided to bring all athletes from various sports into this when the discussion was striclty basketball. You call out people for generalizing about whites being less athletic then blacks and yet you were the first one to do it on here. Everyone else was talking basketball.

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llperez22: Critique of RTBT

llperez22 wrote, "SO not sure why you decided to bring all athletes from various sports into this when the discussion was strictly basketball".

llperez22, fair question. If you go back early in the thread BEFORE I came in, Bobbyb wrote, "Black people "in general" are more athletic than whites." And then NYK2010 wrote, "Good pt Bobby. Obviously black players are more athletic."

That's why I chimed in. I was objecting to those overall generalizations. I'm extremely sensitive to that for good reasons. People think positive stereotypes are OK, but I disagree, because they open the door for negative stereotypes. Therefore, it's important to cut off stereotypes before they become accepted as some sort of truth. And you know what negative stereotype I'm talking about, black people and intelligence. We cannot allow that to take hold in people's minds.

Reference your comment above, "was just talking about basketball, whites on average are clearly not at the same athletic level as blacks. That's not even a question that should be debated."

You are correct llperez22, when it comes to basketball, the obvious is in fact obvious!

And you know what else is obvious to me, mdrame actually made some valid points which we talked about in other threads. White players are often described as heady, smart, and having a high basketball IQ while black players are described as athletic. You know what the negative implication is and that's not acceptable.

Although it may sound like it, my primary concern is NOT proving whites are also great athletes. My primary concern is getting people to look below the surface of what appears to be obvious before they draw conclusions. I want others to think critically before making a generalization about an entire group of people and hopefully that will avoid negative stereotypes. That last point, avoiding stereotypes, is my primary goal because they can have unwelcome consequences.

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fair enough rtbt My initial

fair enough rtbt

My initial response I thought i did good job of explaining why whites iq is pointed out while not necessarily meaning they have a higher iq. It was a fair way of stoping this thread from becoming some kind of race vs race issue. And it appeared most agreed with me.

After my post, no one was even mentioning one race's iq as opposed to another race's iq. The talk was all fair and respectful and the deepest arguments were whether david lee is an above average athlete or is blake griffin balck or mulato. Nothing really wrong or controversial there. This thread had been nothing confrontattional nor was it putting down either race. It stayed within the realms of basketball.

Then you came in and kind of stirred up the fire returning this to a white vs black thing and got people arguing again over who is more ahtletic.

It's all good though. I appreciate your opinion and understand what you are trying to do by squashing out sterotypes.

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llperez22 Critique of RTBT

Llpereze22, I have zero interest in making any discussion race vs race, that doesn't interest me and its counterproductive. That happens when other people get very emotional about the subject and refuse to talk logically and use facts. Nobody wins those kind of discussions and I personally hate them.

However, when I read what I think are statements that have no basis in fact, or are flat out untrue, I feel compelled to point it out.

This is a basketball site but you cannot believe some of the horrible things I hear people say about President Obama on sites where politics are debated. They are incapable of keeping the discussion based solely upon his policies as the President. They instead use one subtle racial slur after another. They don't come out and use words 1950's style, they use code words.

That's what happens on basketball sites like this one where black players are often described as athletic [code word], while white players are described as smart or having a high basketball IQ. Those are the kinds of stereotypes I despise.

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but everyone on here was

but everyone on here was being fair about the iq comments. I dont see anybody talking about blacks having lesser iq. SO there is nothing wrong there. As far as whites not being as athletic as blacks, that statement isnt a sour spot in my book. Im white and i have no problem admitting blakcs in general are more athleitc then whites. I have no idea why someone would get upset about that. If a sterotype isnt offensive and its obviously true, why should we treat it like some kind of no no to discuss. Being afraid to even discuss that is only gonna divide people more.

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Hey. I'm recording some

Hey. I'm recording some dunks of mine tomorrow and putting them on youtube later...(I'm white) and I want you guys to tell me how high I jump compared to other black people...since we all know that the main arguement here is about jumping ability when it comes to athleticism in basketball

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llperez22 Critique of RTBT

llperez22, there's a very good reason why even positive stereotypes can be harmful and I pointed it out several times in this thread. I could say whites dominate law schools, medical schools, scientific research, and all other areas of academics. Therefore whites are obviously smarter than black people.

Now let me make it perfectly clear that I don't believe that, no one group has a monopoly on intelligence. But just suppose for a moment that I did believe the above was true. If you criticized me, I in turn would say to you, if black people, as a group, are better athletes than whites, than why can't white people, as a group, be smarter than blacks.

If you allow the positive stereotype than you must also allow other people to use the negative stereotype. That's the danger when you pick and choose which stereotypes you will accept.

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now you are really reaching

now you are really reaching rtbt. This thread is about basketball. If you want to discuss law school, mediacl school, or any of htat stuff, then you should take that elsewhere. SO i guess what you are saying is that we should all ignore the fact that black basketball players are generally more athletic then whites because that might offend someone?

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As a White-American I am

As a White-American I am offended that I am at a pre-disposition to be less athletic than the African-American. llPerez22 because of you I am quitting basketball, it pains me to type this. I am now going to eat a pint of ice cream to ease the pain.

llperez
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knicksfan, dont let me ruin

knicksfan, dont let me ruin your dreams. You can do whatever you want in life, you just have to believe. Well, maybe not you, you might want to aim low, but you can do quite a bit.

rtbt
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llperez22 Critique of RTBT

llperez22, I am not reaching, it's how it's worded. If I'm reading a thread and someone says any of the following, they will not hear me critique them.

Black guys dominate the game of basketball.
The best athletes in basketball are the black players.

Both of the statements above are true and factual. It's only when you make it one group vs another, such as saying blacks are better athletes than white people where I have a problem. Can't you see the difference? Once you frame it as one group versus another, you move into the realm of racial stereotypes. That in turn gives someone else the right and an opening to say white people are smarter than black people.

Isn't that exactly what you accused me of doing earlier in the thread, pitting one racial group versus another?

knicksfan7
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llperez I feel a little bit

llperez I feel a little bit better now.

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rtbt- in my opinion, blacks

rtbt- in my opinion, blacks are generally more ahtletic then whites. I dont see anything wrong about that. That is where we disagree. We could go back and forth and discuss it further, but at this point, I really just would rather discuss basketball, and drop the race stuff. Somehting I had intended when I made my very first post in this thread hoping to defuse this from becoming a white vs black thing.

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llperez22 Critique of RTBT

OK llperez22, I was simply responding to every one of your posts. If you didn't want to continue the discussion, I would have stopped. I know you're really a good guy and I truly respect your opinion on a number of issues. In fact, I often agree with you in most discussions. However, this is one time where my fear of racial stereotypes causes us to see this issue differently. And I'm sorry you feel as if I ruined your discussion.

But as I mentioned earlier, I only jumped in to this thread when I saw BobbyB, and someone else, bring up the group racial issue. Otherwise I would have been happy to stay completely out of the discussion.

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