So delfam said on the MJ thread that Wilt was better than MJ.
I figured that this statement is so wrong that i have to make a thread about it.
Wilt may have been the most physically gifted player ever but theres no way in hell he was a better player than mike. Read anything ever that bill simmons has wrote on him. Better yet read anything ever that one of his coaches or teammates has been quoted saying about him.
I guarantee you you'll have trouble finding anything positive. Why? Wilt was absorbed with individual achievements, records, and records more than winning.
Mike had a legendary fire that compelled him to win. Wilt has been quoted saying that he preferred to lose rather than win, that it was more fun.
He also said that he learned more in life from losing than Bill russell did from winning.
also its totally questionable whether or not he was a better player (not skill wise exclusively but factoring in more facets of the game) than Russell.
Wilt may be the least clutch superstar to ever play the game of basketball. The dude shot worse from the line than he did from the field (.501 from the stripe, .503 from the field). He hated touching the ball in clutch time because he was afraid to go to the line. Playing with him in the clutch was like playing with 4 players.
In Simmons book Hondo (John Havlachiek) is talking about his famous finals game 7 (dont remember the year) steal against one of Wilt's teams. He's quoted as saying, he knew to jump the pass because there was no way Wilt would be getting the ball during crunch time.
How many times has MJ made a huge shot? too many to count. How many times has Wilt made a huge shot in the clutch? probably cant name any
Lastly number 4
Wilt never fouled out of a game. He was obsessed with keeping that streak alive. It was to the point where if he picked up foul number 4 or 5 he would start playing matador defense and get less agressive on the offensive side as to not pick up a foul. It would be once again like playing 4 on 5 ball.
Any player who wants to be considered the greatest ever has to have clutch performances. Wilt could not do that. He stepped down in a major way during those times. Michael Jordan stepped up huge. He was willing to take that final shot and either win the game or lose it. Wilt couldnt manage to do that. Michael Jordan loved to win, and Wilt couldnt care less
there is a number of things i have read about wilt. And having seen nothing more then a few highlights, i have to go off only what iread and numbers.
FIrst off, he put up ridiculous numbers. He put up the most crazy numbers anyone has ever played this game.
100 point game
50 ppg for a whole season
25+rpg game for a whole season
49 minutes per game one season (Yes it was a 48 minute game back then)
50+ rebounds in a game at least once
But i have to assume he was driven by stats first and foremost. His teams were not that succesful. Also, i remeber the opposing player from the team he dropped 100 on saying how wilt touched the ball every time down. His teammates intentionally fouled the whole 4th quarter even though they were winning so that they could get the ball back without time coming off the clock and give it to wilt. He shot 64 fg's and 32 ft's that game. Think about that for a minute. 40 fg attempts is only done a few times a year now, let alone 64 while shooting 32 ft's. Thats just crazy.
Yeah. I didnt say he wasnt skilled. The guy scored. I dont have the exact stats though but he didnt really play well when the games mattered. his numbers also took drastic dips in the playoffs. I dont think theres any question MJ is better though
But it's not like he was a total looser, he did win 2 NBA championships, which I'll admit is a far cry from 6, but some of you guys were talking like he was an old time Monta Ellis. Let's not forget, the guy DOMINATED.
Wilt was hella good but could not finish a game like MJ did, remember all the clutch shots MJ had, everybody knew he was gonna take the last shot and it didn't prevent him from making it over and over again. Don't forget also that physically, nobody could match Chamberlain except maybe Russell while MJ was a more traditionnal player at 6-6 220. Wilt was a great player, MJ a greater one.
I don't think Wilt was driven by stats as much as people think. He was the most dominant player his sport had seen at the time, on offense at least. His coaches' game plan was always 'get the ball to Wilt and get out of the way.' The main reason why he couldn't finish off games was because he was a terrible FT shooter. At the end of close games the other teams would just triple team him and foul him. He was the original hack a shaq. He actually wanted to retire from basketball after his rookie season because of it.
Wilt was an incredible athlete as well. In college, he ran the 100 yard dash in 10.9 seconds, shot putted 56', and was the 3-time high jump champion. He was also a great volleyball player. Probably the most agile 7 footer who ever lived.
In my opinion, Walt was the best offensive player who ever lived but MJ is the best player who ever lived.
No one can come close to matching MJ's intensity and will to win. Jordan is arguably the greatest defender of all time as well. My list of the best would look like this:
6. Oscar Robertson
14. Julius Irving
15. David Robinson
Wilt actually shot 59% from the field not 50. that's almost 10% that you missed. He shot 54% from the charity stripe. Any GOOD player knows that if they can't shoot free throws, they aren't going to touch the ball.. Have you seen Dwight and Shaq play? They disappear in the final 3 minutes, only to get clutch rebounds. That's a trait ALL bigmen have. Have you watched Wilt play? I highly doubt it, all these so called "FACTS" are hear-say. You hear someone say them or you read them then you write about it as if you had so much knowledge on them. How old is Bill Simmons? 40? He was about 13 when Chamberlain retired. And you know what? Bill Simmons doesn't like Wilt Chamberlain.. Why? He's a HARDCORE Celtics fan and Chamberlain was Bill Russell's arch-rival, that is why he talks trash about him. Get some REAL FACTS.
Don't believe everything you read. -Tupac Shakur
ill go with jordan only because ive seen jordan. i cant give a opinion that should be taken to seriously because i wasnt even born when wilt played. i have only seen video and stats. it would be like someone who has never seen jordan telling me kobe was better...i talk to a couple of the younger people who are in my family who already say lebron is the best ever because they werent even born when jordan was playing
Read the Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons because he spends an entire chapter breaking down the Wilt vs Russel debate. One great stat he gives is Wilt's record in game 7's in the playoffs: 4-5 which is brutal compared to Russel's 10-0. Also Wilt was completley obsessed with stats, he has admitted it, and even went out of his way to lead the league in assists one year. Great player but didn't have the right goals on that basketball court.
DanEBoy your list isn't bad but I think you have Julius Erving, David Robinson too high.
Malone, Barkley, Ewing were better than Robinson I think.
I have Kobe in the top 10 if he gets another ring.
BTW where is Duncan I think he should be higher than Shaq becaz he won multiple titles when Robinson left too.
Also Duncan never played with a SG as good as Kobe & Wade.
I would have Baylor and Hakeem higher as well.
DR. J was a trendsetter and his best years came with the ABA
I would take The Admiral over Duncan at their best.
Shaq was the most dominant player of his era, more than Duncan. People forget about Shaq's passing abilities as well.
I think Elgin Baylor is one of the most underrated players ever but who do I bump him over?
Hakeem was awesome but I would still take Shaq over him at their best as well
Ewing was not better than Robinson in my opinion.
Malone and Barkley not being able to lead their teams to titles hurts them in my book. Of course they had to go against Jordan all the time though.
These are just my opnions. Put your list up.
That is why NO dominant scorer in the paint will ever be considered the greatest....You expect shaq, Wilt, Russel, Yao Duncan, Hakeem,Howard, jabbar, and even Duncan to be able to hit clutch shots that leBron, Kobe, and jordan can hit? no way.they will never have those clucth moments that big players are remembered by...
6. Oscar Robertson
15. Moses Malone
Obviously i never saw Wilt, Russell, Havlicek and some other old timers play.
I put Wilt in front of Russell becaz Russell played with a Hall of Fame team and some of the greatest teams of all time.
Kobe will probably move up higher by the time he's done if he keeps up this pace and wins another ring.
I got Shaq a lil bit lower becaz he has gotten swept in the playoffs many times and his defense is very weak against the pick n roll.
my top 15:
Kareem Abdul Jabaar
Do you guys remember how great David Robinson was? Go check his stats.