share

A. Joseph: Inside the College Game | 5 Things We Learned

rtbt
Registered User
Joined: 03/25/2009
Posts: 1602
Points: 709
Offline
A. Joseph: Inside the College Game | 5 Things We Learned

If you haven't read it yet, you should read Adi Joseph's excellent article entitled, "Inside the College Game | 5 Things We Learned".

Even though I agreed with most of his points, there was one aspect where I completely disagreed with him. He believes teams who won in OT lost their next game because they were physically spent. I disagree with that theory, I think it was nothing more than a coincidence.

First, these guys are in fantastic physical condition.

Second, they're between 19 and 22 years age, so their bodies recover quickly.

Third, they don't play back to back games like NBA teams. Unfortunately, some dumb coaches have practice on their one day off, instead of allowing them to rest and recover all day.

And finally, there are 8 media timeouts per game. That comes to an extra 32 minutes where the starters can rest.

And if that wasn't enough, there are also 10 team timeouts. If you add up the media and team timeouts, there are 18 opportunities to rest in a 40 minute game. That comes to one commercial break approximately every 2 minutes.

In light of the above, I think those finely conditioned young athletes can handle a 5 minute overtime.


Slim
Registered User
Joined: 09/25/2009
Posts: 1053
Points: 347
Offline
....

And if that wasn't enough, there are also 10 team timeouts. If you add up the media and team timeouts, there are 18 opportunities to rest in a 40 minute game. That comes to one break approximately every 2 minutes.

Can anyone post like a workout regimen that these guys do. Because I'm really curious?

the lake show
Registered User
Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
Points: 1200
Offline
my guess is you have never

my guess is you have never played basketball on the college level...you would be suprised how tired you are after a overtime game then go to practice the next day then another game a day or 2 later....i guess you cant understand if you never played

M-DYMES
M-DYMES's picture
Registered User
Joined: 12/14/2009
Posts: 2644
Points: 6874
Offline
Its not tiring to the point

Its not tiring to the point where its going to affect the next game severely enough to determine who wins the game. I've played ball for hours and hours on end and the next day continue to do that and it does not affect me in the least way.

knicksfan7
Registered User
Joined: 06/18/2009
Posts: 3069
Points: 1489
Offline
Also, even if they do play a

Also, even if they do play a double overtime game in the case of K-State they had the next day off, so I don't think having played an overtime game before playing Butler is the reason for there loss.

the lake show
Registered User
Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
Points: 1200
Offline
playing ball for hours and

playing ball for hours and hours is not the same as playing in a college game against college and pro players....come on seriously..bascially if you have never played college basketball there is no way you can say how it affects a player

no different then me saying mike tyson punches dont really hurt if ive never been hit by it

ive played basketball at a rec for hours and hours as well and the next day i wasnt tired... i played college basketball for less hours and in better shape and i was much tired the next day

the lake show
Registered User
Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
Points: 1200
Offline
im not saying thats the

im not saying thats the reason they lost but unless you have experienced it you cant say thats not part of the reason

knicksfan7
Registered User
Joined: 06/18/2009
Posts: 3069
Points: 1489
Offline
Quincey, were they tired?

Quincey, were they tired? Yes, but I don't believe anyone of the players or coaches would say playing that game had any significant affect on them losing. Butler just out executed them.

the lake show
Registered User
Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
Points: 1200
Offline
no coach is gonna give

no coach is gonna give excuses..that doesnt mean it didnt affect them...coachs for the most part wont say this or that call hurt them or this or that player injuried there ankle in practice and thats affecting him. you are taught to not make excuses so of course youre not gonna hear a coach or player tell the media that.

we had games where we lost because our coach ran us like dogs the day before and in one case the day of but when we get interviewed we never bring that up

knicksfan7
Registered User
Joined: 06/18/2009
Posts: 3069
Points: 1489
Offline
If I were coaching a team in

If I were coaching a team in the NCAA Tournament I would probably have a light workout with a shoot around as well as game film on the next opponent. They need all the rest they can get to have your players doing a serious workout is only hurting your chances of winning.

the lake show
Registered User
Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
Points: 1200
Offline
i agree and most coaches do

i agree and most coaches do that but if you lose a game or win but didnt run the plays right and you have a tough coach (bob knight for example) ou best believe you are gonna get it in practice. ive had practices where we won but didnt execute right and ran stairs in our gym for 2 straight hrs and then had a game the next day. theres a rule that you can only practice for a certain amount of time...thats laughable many times... had another coach who would have us get up at 530am practice till 730 then go to class eat lunch then practice again for 2hrs

knicksfan7
Registered User
Joined: 06/18/2009
Posts: 3069
Points: 1489
Offline
Yeah the amount of time that

Yeah the amount of time that is allotted to coaches for practice is a joke. I remember recently Michigan Football got in trouble with that because some player complained, and Jim Tressel Ohio State's Head Coach said something like we only get so much time that even with that time it isn't enough.

rtbt
Registered User
Joined: 03/25/2009
Posts: 1602
Points: 709
Offline
knicksfan7 On Practice

After playing and practicing for approximately 6 months, shame on any head coach who makes his players practice on their day off between tournament games. Why would you make your team practice when a day of rest is so critical?

As I said earlier, I thoroughly enjoyed reading Adi Joseph's article, but his conclusion about OT losses is what people in the medical research field call "Anecdotal Evidence". In order to see if his premise was actually true, you would have to initiate a study. For example, study the winners of all overtime games over a ten year period and see what happens to them in their next game.

In reality, I think a far more interesting study would be to see the effects of coaches allowing their teams to rest the day between games versus those coaches who make them practice.

the lake show
Registered User
Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
Points: 1200
Offline
i cant speak for how these

i cant speak for how these coaches practice inbetween tournament games. i doubt they do more then walk throughs or half speed but i can account for playing a day and a half after playing in overtimes games. hell after playing in non overtime games especially if he had a good game and shot alot or played hard defense. the times i got most tired is games that i was killing. by the time the end of the game comes my legs are gone and im tired as hell. i kind of equate it to lifting weights. even if you lift alot, if you max out on a monday at everything and you work on the same areas on weds there is a good chance you wont be able to do the same max reps as you did on monday

rtbt
Registered User
Joined: 03/25/2009
Posts: 1602
Points: 709
Offline
Was It OT or Something Else?

In his excellent article, Adi said Villanova was the best example of his OT theory. It didn't look that way to me. Villanova looked sluggish, out of synch, and almost lost to Robert Morris. Are you kidding? That proved to me either Villanova wasn't ready for the tournament and/or maybe their coach overworked them while practicing for the NCAA. Maybe they were tired and had heavy legs even before the tournament started?

In the game against St. Mary's they weren't exactly blown away. More importantly, they simply had no answer for the St. Mary's center.

In the Butler - Kansas State game,it was a pretty close game, 56-54 with 2.5 minutes remaining. I think Butler simply executed better down the stretch. One or two missed shots by Butler and it could have easily gone the other way. In addition, Kansas State was taking some pretty bad shots in the last 2 minutes. Maybe that was a bigger factor than the extra minutes in OT?

If you look at Kansas vs Northern Iowa and Kentucky vs West Virginia, both Kansas and Kentucky looked like they had heavy legs and were out of synch. But neither team was coming off of an OT game so that couldn't be the reason. If someone could explain why some teams you expect to do well come out sluggish and seem to be out of synch, they should bottle it and sell the formula to every coach.

In sum, my point is very simple. There are so many variables in terms of why teams do well and/or play poorly, that you can't generalize from a few games. I still maintain that for all of those teams who won in OT and then lost their next game, it was nothing more than a coincidence. As I mentioned earlier, in the medical research field that is known as "anecdotal evidence".

It was certainly an interesting theory, but it remains just that, nothing more than a theory.

RSS: Syndicate content