Is Wes Johnson really the number 3 best player in this draft?
I disagree. Watching Wes up here in Syracuse, he seems more 6-10 range. IMO, His numbers don't match his game. He had amazing stats. He shot almost 42 percent from 3 and he was close to averaging 2 steals and 2 blocks per game. But from what I saw in all the games I've seen- he doesn't show that. Almost a quiet assassin.
My issue is I don't feel Wes will be a star in the NBA. I believe he will be a more defensive version of Sean Elliot. Where to ask I see DeMarcus Cousins, Derrick Favors, Aminu and Henry being better players.
So my question is: Is Wes Johnson really the 3rd best player in this draft? Also, How is Patrick Patterson the 8th pick? Can a player's numbers decrease and he goes higher then projected the year before? really?
His stats decreased this year when he switched positions to a 4 and started to defer to DeMarcus Cousins a lot more than he would have to other members of the frontcourt.
Wes Johnson seems timid to me. This is why GM is a tough job. On one hand he seems fragile, but then u see him hittin step back J's at 6'8. He could be Dermar Johnson or Shawn Marion. Thats a large gap.
Same with Cousins: he could be Benoit Benjamin or a more athletic Andrew Bynum
Tough call. My gut says Aminu, Favors, Johnson, Cousins, in that order.
Oh, and Patterson has been overrated for 3 years to me. How many undersized PF's actually make it?
I watched every cuse game this year, and 90% of the games I would say to myself wes has to take over the game or it seems like Wes isnt doing very much, and then I would look at the box score and he almost always ended up with 18-20pts and 10+reb, to me this is a good thing, if a guy can do that almost unnoticed, I think once he gets more aggresive in the NBA he can be a very good player.
he is something like #8 on my board. Just don't like 23years old rookies.
ummm yeah a players numbers can decrease and the player goes higher. thats because teams look at more then just numbers they look at how the player got his numbers. ifim a pf who has no real jumper and score down low and averages about 18 a game on a n.i.t team one year then the next year i average 15 a game but i have a legit jumper and my team is one of the top in the country with better players then yeah im much more attractive to a nba team. most fans dont see that though because they are all about stats where as nba teams are more about skill and the players games.
Even when I watched Patterson...he didn't seem like he improved. I'm just saying this- He went from a mid 1st rounder and jumped to 8? What did he really improve? Also, are you taking a undersized PF in the top 10? I dunno.
Quincey- what is your take on Wes Johnson
didnt improve?..ummm he has the same game as last year except he now has a jumper and range on his jumper so how is that not improving?..thats the thing scouts told him he needed to improve when he went back to college. maybe you didnt watch him last year because i cant figuure out how you can say he hasnt improved
as far as wes i like his game and wouldnt be suprised if he goes top 3 because he's talented. i dont just like at someone's stats i look at what there role was on there teamplus there skill set and he has a very good skill set. these are reasons why most fans cant be scouts because alot of them just look at stats. most of the best players in each draft arent the ones who lead the nation i scoring ast, reb and other stats
Sometimes I wonder if you say stuff just to rile people up.
From what I saw, Patterson had a decent jumper already. He did increase the range and he hit some threes this past season but is he really a top 10 pick? I don't think so.
I'm guessing you didn't read what I said about Wes Johnson because that was exactly what I said.
you asked me my take on wes and i gave it
as far as patterson thats why scouts are scouts and fans are fans. because they look at things that fans dont look at or just cant see. patterson could hit some midrange shots sometimes. last year.. not consistantly though.. he got most of his points close to the basket last year..anytime you increase youre range you increase youre value. hasleem wouldnt be as vauluable if he didnt have the range that he has..
like you said you dont see it..but the scouts and others do
I get places that Patterson is 6'9 " or 6'8" and he has a wide body with a nice wingspan. Elton brand is 6'8" how undersized is Patterson, he looks like a legit 6'8" or so to me so it is not like he will measure shorter than that. He can not shot jumpers out to 3 point and he also can play with more talent players. They look real good for him as an NBA player.
I think Johnson will be a very good player in the NBA. He's not a very good ball-handler, but he's pretty quick, and he has about as pure a jump shooting stroke as any player in the class. I think at best he's a Danny Granger type, but at worst he's alot like Joe Alexander. I think he's better than Alexander though. I think he can be a nice 2nd option though for sure.
The only guys I'd take him after are Wall, Turner, Favors and Cousins.
This site rates Wes really high. Don't base a players draft stock just on this site. Personally I think he will fall between picks 5-8. I compare him a lot to Tayshaun Prince. Plays good D but not outstanding. Is able to shoot the jumper very well and rebound too. (I really want him to come to Utah, and I think he could fall to that 6-8 range where Utah should be selecting. YEAH) Aminu, I'm not quite sure on. He could be good, he could not be. The team that drafts him will need to be very patient. Cousins I have no doubt that he will be a star in the pros, he just needs to control his attitude. This is why I have projected as the third pick. As for Patterson, many undersized power forwards have done well. Paul Millsap, David Lee, David West, Jason Maxiell, Udonis Haslem, to name a few. If you look at the heights of these guys they are all right around 6'7-6'8 range. So I don't what you are talking about, s2jepeka. He will be a solid contributor in the pros, but never a star. I have him projected as a late lottery pick, currently the last pick in the lottery.
1. John Wall
2. Evan Turner
Slightly Below Top
3. DeMarcus Cousins
4. Derrick Favors
5. Wes Johnson
I think that these 5 players will all be stars in the league. I like the physical abilities of Favors, but he never got the ball consistently so he is the one that I am most worried about. I am very confident that the other four will be very very good players in the league. Wall does not really need any defending nor does Turner (although I am sure some people think they are overrated). Cousins seems like the most NBA ready out of these five and will probably have the best rookie season out of the five IMO. Wall and Turner will be asked to do too much in their rookie year on bad teams and probably be very inefficient. Cousins has the strength to have an immediate impact in the league and if he can get his conditioning and post moves a little more sound than he could quickly become one of the best low post players in the league. Favors will take a few years to develop IMO, since he was never really a guy who got the ball fed to him consistently in college. I think some of the other guys described Johnson perfectly in that he is a silent type of scorer out there who may not lit up the highlight reel, but will sneakily average 20 PPG.
Any team that is drafting top 5 should get a very very good player assuming that they draft one of these five. I would love for my Pistons to take Wes at 5 if we have the opportunity rather than digging down to get a big man (I am 100% certain that we won't do this even if my top four above are already taken and Johnson is on the board, but I can dream). I think there is a massive drop in talent after these 5 and every player afterward will most likely be a bust or a role player at best in the league (which is not a bash on their abilities, every team needs 3-4 very good role players).
I like Aldrich a lot to come in and immediately contribute, but he does not have a high ceiling. Monroe should become a good player, but I don't see him ever becoming a star. I think Davis and Aminu are just busts waiting to happen and am praying that the Pistons do not draft either of them (although I see Dumars going for one of the two if we get the 5th pick and it plays out with my four above gone). Other than these guys I have not seen Whiteside play, but I HATE drafting projects and would not touch him unless he fell into the 13-20 range. I think Bledsoe will be a very good pg and could be a steal in teh late lottery. Other than that don't really love anyone.
I don't see the constant energy that you need to have as an undersized 4 out of Patterson. Maybe it is because he did not need to have this constant energy, but I can see him being a bit of a disappointment.
Very nice post! After those five, there is a big drop in talent and a high spike in risk.
Again, it all depends on the team drafting.
i actually moved cousins to top level. the guy is just wayyy to skilled. to do what he does in 23min a game is unreal. it would be different if he was just over powering everyone and player 35min a game but 23??? and his foot work and how he has a go to move but then a back up and a back up to his back up?..i see zach randolph in him soooooo much except more athletic( he doesnt jump out of the gym but he will go hard and dunk on you and gets up quicker then i thought)
and all of that would be impressive if he was a jr or sr but the kid is a freshman!!! and i was probably less supportive of him in the beginning of the year then anyone
His attitude issues probably won't stop him from being a truck down low. His work ethic is apparently improved as well, so that is promising.
I see the Pacers, Jazz and Bucks as the teams who are the least likely to draft him. Even if they did, he would not be sucessful in those situations. I'm also not sure Minnesota needs him because they already have Jefferson. Would Blatche and Cousins work well together? Golden State also has a knack for only drafting players who fit their system.
New Jersey, Detroit, Philadelphia and Sacramento could all use the services of Cousins right away. He would also have the time/room to develop in game situations and could become an all-star like Zach Randolph (as Quincey pointed out). I think he would improve New Jersey a WHOOOOLE lot.
Def agree with Wes Johnson, he has talent but not too impressed. As a UK fan, NBA teams like ppatt for his NBA ready body( dude is undersized but is jacked) as far as numbers goes, he wasn't a great fit with Cousins, and was really the 3rd or 4th option and didn't have as many plays for him as before when he was a go to guy. He may not be an all-star but he will be a great, talented role player, he does all the little things, plays tough, works hard, is a leader, very dependable ( will graduate in only 3 year fyi) isn't selfish at all nor will he complain about lack of touches or PT. He is kinda the teammate everyone wants. A guy who is very likeable.
i dont understand how he wasnt a great fit wit cousins?..when you think of having a big center who is a banger then youre ideal pf would be a pf who can play out side of the paint and hit the jumper. that was patterson. you want a player like haslem you dont want another banger whos gonna take up space down low as well and make it easier to double cousins
i think he will be a mismatch and be able to guard 3's and 'sum soft five"s he should look to get a 3 and work on his handles for he can drive more
yeahhh i think him at the three is pushing it.. he can hit some spot up jumpers but it takes alot more then that to be a 3. i cant think of anyone who started out as a 5,4 whos handles ever got good enough to play nba 3. he has no off the dribble shot either and his feet arent quick enough to guard the nba threes. i mean i like the guy but theres no sf in his future
I like him, if you don't like him at 3 thats ok. But I think he's a top 6 player. Cousins has huge potential but the bust factor is just wayyy to high for me. And I reallly don't like Aminu, he does not have the skills for a wing player and just screams average 3-4th option to me. He's a poor man's Marvin Williams.
Johnson might defer a bit much, but thats a knock on almost every player whose not a lock for the number 1 pick. He won't be "the guy" on a championship team (but theres very few of those), but he could be an excellent number 2 guy.
Also I like Patterson, he's shown nice skill development and has great strength to make up for being a little short, though 6'8" is good enough in the NBA right now. His numbers going down shows that he can defer to others, and with Cousins clogging the lane he wasn't going to get as many mop up points as he used to.
The thing that I don't like about Patterson is that he does not do anything particularly well offensively. He can shoot decently, he can take a bigger guy off the dribble decently, not too sure about his post game because Cousins has been in there a whole lot more, but I imagine that he does not have a particularly good post game either. The thing is that if you can only do all of these things decently in college then you will not be able to do them well in the pros. He is not going to suddenly develop his dribble (his range can be worked on, but only to a certain extent) and I do not want to draft a guy in the lottery who cannot be a at least decently consistent scorer unless he does a lot of the other things really well. Aldrich for example does not score particularly well and probably never will, but he is such a huge presence defensively and is a very good rebounder. I don't think Patterson does either of those things remarkably well. Everybody wants to compare undersized 4s to Landry these days, but Landry is a very solid offensive player. He can take people off the dribble as well as hit jump shots when he has to. I just don't see Patterson doing it, and since he is an undersized 4 he will have some really tough defensive match ups against much bigger players. If he does not have an offensive game to exploit the same match up to his advantage then I don't see how he can be a very very good role player.
I like Patterson, but I do not like him top 15. I just think that there are too many weaknesses in his game to make around for his all around solid play.
EDIT: Patterson won't ever be able to play the 3 in NBA. He cannot come close to matching up with the speed and athleticism that some of the 3s in this league have.
First of all, your name is awesome.
Secondably, Patterson actually does have a well-defined post game to go along with his jumper, driving game and powerful finishing ability.
His post game is the one thing that I thought was probably better than I had seen because I have really only watched him this year. His jumper is very inconsistent though, and I have pretty much never seen him take anyone off the dribble. I think that is going to be a problem for him. Of course he can improve his jump shot a whole lot, but I don't see him suddenly acquiring a driving game. Landry can do all of this well. Against Detroit (naturally I don't watch a whole lot of random Rockets and Kings games unless they are playing my team) the first 4-5 possessions of the game Landry got the ball and immediately took Benni Wallace off the dribble and scored. Naturally Ben may not be the best example since he is 35 and not getting younger, but Landry had the ability to see the mis match and just immediately take advantage of it. I don't think that Patterson can do this same type of thing with his driving ability or jump shot yet.
I was thinking compared to his draft peers. In my opinion, the only post player with a better jumper is Motiejunas, and his is inconsistant as well.
I've seen Patterson drive to the hole numerous times and finish with a powerful jam.
Yeah, he hasn't used his post game as much this season for obvious reasons. But from what I've seen, it is very polished. He looks comfortable hitting turn-around jumpers, baby-hook shots and he has a nifty up-and-under move.
Put-backs are where he shines though. He is an expert at put-backs.
I love him in Milwaukee. Perfect fit with Jennings, I could see the two of them developing a nice pick-and-roll play together.
First of all Wes Johnson is by no means even an above average defender....he gets a couple weak side blocks in Syracuse's zone.....but I promise you zone is the only defense he can play....man up he is BELOW averge at best.....its the reason for his falling out at Iowa State and the reason Syracuse was a perfect match for him.....but he is garbage at man to man defense....absolute garbage...and that's why he is overrated to me...I have him rated 12th on my board....and I was being generous to him just because his offensive game is well suited for the NBA.....but he couldn't guard a jar full of pennies....
"As for Patterson, many undersized power forwards have done well. Paul Millsap, David Lee, David West, Jason Maxiell, Udonis Haslem, to name a few"
1)Udonis Haslem and Jason Maxiell would not be taken in the top 10 of ANY draft. Thank you, sir, you just made my point.
2)David Lee is 6'9 with damn near a 40 inch vert..Patterson is closer to 6'7 from what ive read
3)David West has a perimeter based game, Patterson just started shooting J's THIS year
Wes Johnson is a horse&$#%#&@! defender.....knock my points down all you want it doesn't make it any less true....